Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nazyrus]

Not sure on the render but the guy's claiming he also saw a Meta Ridley skin, As new information

I don't see him stating that to be "new information" , but rather just along the stuff he "saw".

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure on the render but the guy's claiming he also saw a Meta Ridley skin, As new information

Wait, Ridley's in the game? That's big if true.

 

[KMDP]

https://retronauts.com/article/414/retronauts-episode-105-cancelled-games
https://retronauts.com/article/828/retronauts-episode-147-sonic-adventure
https://retronauts.com/article/852/retronauts-episode-151-sonic-adventure-2

Without doing the research I'm not sure exactly about the two listed points you're trying to make but I do agree with the quote you've cited. I'd recommend checking out the listed Retronauts episodes on Sonic X-Treme and Adventure 1/2 as I think they both re-enforce and expand upon the points you've made; they're also entertaining and feel like extended audio versions of DYKG & Gaming Historian.

As a side note, with Ultimate & Smash's 20th Anniversary coming up, I'd love to see an episode focused on the history of Smash Bros. with guests from Source Gaming. @PushDustIn

And... bookmarking this post for future reference (I'll check out those Retronaut articles later).

To expand on what I meant with those two points.

Chaos and Big the Cat exist to show off the Dreamcast's ability to render water (also Big exists to advertise SEGA Bass Fishing and it's Fishing Rod peripheral). Gamma existed to have a shooter game. Big the Cat and Gamma are two extra characters that require new gameplay mechanics and level geometry that could have gone into more polish or extra levels for the other characters (disregarding whether or not the two are good or bad).

The Boost Gameplay requires long, linear levels, and takes a lot of manpower to create levels for, because otherwise the level would be terribly short; these long levels with frankly beautiful setpieces (Windmill Isle, Cool Edge and Rooftop Run to name a few) are blitzed by by the player without a second thought, one could consider this wasteful.

 

[Opossum]

@DevaAshera

That’s terribly disappointing. Although to defend my point somewhat (despite it being painfully obvious that there is no way for Imajin to get into Smash), it doesn’t seem to me that you disagree with me here. You state that Richter is popular and well-known amongst western Castlevania fans, which is true. However I have stated previously that Imajin is popular and well-known in Japan since Doki Doki Panic is more prevalent and popular than Super Mario Bros. 2.

That's patently false.

Doki Doki Panic, as far as I'm aware, has never been rereleased. Meanwhile, Super Mario Bros 2 (Super Mario Bros USA in Japan) has, and is much more well known. Doki Doki Panic isn't even popular in Japan.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't see him stating that to be "new information" , but rather just along the stuff he "saw".

But it's implying it's stuff we're not supposed to know yet. We knew of the Meta Ridley skin since E3, it's too suspicious

 

[Nazyrus]

https://twitter.com/grantkirkhope/status/1028735930910236672?s=20

Ouch so the composer of Banjo Kazooie "thinks" he has zero chances / doubts it highly, but of course that's just his opinion. Still kinda hurts to hear it tho.

 

[ErenJager]

Namco Content Wish List.

Playable: Heihachi Mishima
Echo: Devil Jin (Likely impractical although they both use the Mishima style)

Ms. Pac-Man as an Alph Alt for Pac-Man

Assist Trophies: Lloyd, Klonoa

Bosses: Yoshimitsu, Nightmare

 

[TMNTSSB4]

If we get Dante, they'd better have reboot Dante as an alternate costume. Putting DmC Dante on the same team as Dark Pit or Shadow (if he gets in) would be amazing. The game might explode from all the edginess contained in that match.

Edge...edge everywhere

Maybe Tails isn't all that anymore, though Tails at least still made frequent supporting character roles in the past decade while Shadow was in limbo in mainline games up until Sonic Forces

Tbf...we’ve only had Unleashed, Colors, Generations, Lost World, and Forces in the past decade (Shadow showing up in the DS version of Colors, Generations and Forces while Tails and Amy are the only supporting heroes to appear in all of them, since Knuckles doesn’t show up in Unleashed)

 

[T-Hell]

I

https://twitter.com/grantkirkhope/status/1028735930910236672?s=20

Ouch so the composer of Banjo Kazooie "thinks" he has zero chances / doubts it highly, but of course that's just his opinion. Still kinda hurts to hear it tho.

Friendly reminder that K.Rool's creator had no idea he was being made for Ultimate, he was as shocked as all of us during his trailer reveal, let alone a composer.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I remember the PSASBR era Capcom.

It's all very well trying to reboot a series but why go to the extra effort of alienating a divided fanbase by deliberately prevening Nu Dante from having an old Dante alt?
They really thought we'd pay for him without his jacket?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

What would the point of a Hilda Echo be? She has even less to differentiate her from her original than Grumpy Pit does.

I could see them sticking a couple of palutena's staff moves on there which would be cool, forward tilt, down tilt, down air. Maybe she could have some darkness effects instead of Zelda's sparkle magic, din's fire could be ice or something, maybe swap phantom out for an entirely different move. I feel like Hilda could be fun. Plus she'd be very different personality wise

 

[Nazyrus]

Surprisingly enough no one has debunked the Shadow render yet… but it might be a matter of time. I mean I could pose a Shadow 3d model and make it beautiful in photoshop anyway, so i don't think there's a need to believe that "leak" even if the model isn't debunked.

 

[Pakky]

Personally, I would rather see Frogger playable. On the surface, he may not seem like a fighter with potential, but if you craft a moveset based on the gameplay, you can get a really unique character out of Frogger, sorta like Pac-Man in a sense. I made a short moveset months ago, detailing what kind of playstyle he could have here:

Moveset and Playstyle

Neutral-B: Tongue Lash: Frogger quickly whips out his tongue to paralyze the opponent for a very short period of time that allows Frogger to attack freely. The tongue automatically homes at the opponent within its area. Can be rapidly used to paralyze multiple opponents. If abused too much, Frogger tires out and is vulnerable to attack.

Side-B: Thrust Jump: Frogger leans charges for a horizontal spin jump attack. The longer you charge, the greater the distance. When the move is active, Frogger can dodge by pressing the special button, and pressing B again allows Frogger to do a quick, but weak counterattack. If abused too much, Frogger tires out and is vulnerable to attack.

Down-B: Vehicle: Frogger summons a vehicle, avoiding the vehicle by jumping from behind. These vehicles range from powerful to weak: trucks, cars, buses, motorcycles, bicycles. The vehicle chosen is randomized. If Frogger is tired out when using this move, Frogger will end up being hit by the vehicle.

Up-B: High-Jump: Functions similarly Thrust Jump. You can jump a high vertical distance, spin-jump attack, be able to dodge in mid-air, and counter too. The special move does not have the weakness of tiring Frogger out, but if Frogger uses this move while in a tired state from using Neutral-B, the vertical distance travelled will be far lower.

Frogger would basically be an evading master in Smash, staying true to how Frogger plays in the arcade game. He can dodge-roll quickly, side-step quickly, a plethora of moves that help Frogger escape from the most tight situations. When Frogger successfully avoids an attack from an opponent, he is awarded stamina, which recovers his special moves back to its normal state. The weaknesses he would have is his weak attack power, being VERY lightweight, and being able to tire out if Frogger uses his special moves too much. In return, he is a character with masterful mobility. If I could name his play-style, he would be called the "Evasive Martial Artist".

I want to see two of the biggest third-party arcade mascots in Smash Ultimate!

YES!

Spoiler: Frogger

 

[Paperchampion23]

Sakurai said that he wanted Geno to be in, but what if it is Square enix the one that doesn't want to let Geno in?
They are the ones that have the rights of the character (I think?), if they doesn't allow Sakurai to put Geno then he can't do anything.
That is the only reason I could see Geno not being in Smash.

Can we stop with this? Metal Gear and essentially old Castlevania have become dead franchises at this point and Konami still let Sakurai put Snake back in and didn't force him to use a Lords of Shadow Character. I highly doubt it is as complicated as it has to be.

If Square let's him use Geno, it will probably be because Sakurai has wanted to use him. Perhaps Cloud HAD to be done first to establish a working relationship with Spuare. Or perhaps he didn't and felt Cloud was a better choice now.

Point is we have no idea how 3rd party inclusions work. But I personally feel if Konami, a company considered to be even worse to work with than Square, can let Sakurai use Snake and Simon Belmont, then Square can/would let Sakurai use Geno, no matter how obscurity.

 

[dezeray112]

Namco Content Wish List.

Playable: Heihachi Mishima
Echo: Devil Jin (Likely impractical although they both use the Mishima style)

Ms. Pac-Man as an Alph Alt for Pac-Man

Assist Trophies: Lloyd, Klonoa

Bosses: Yoshimitsu, Nightmare

Here is mine:

Playable: Heihachi Mishima or Jin Kazama.
Echo: Kazuya Mishima.
Assist Trophies: Alisa Bosconovitch, Sophitia Alexandria.
Bosses: Ogre

 

[Volodya]

If Frogger were to make it into Smash somehow, he should have this salaryman getup from the old cabinet.

 

[blazefan519]

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Daisy_(SSBU)


Yeah, there’s a screenshot of her floating above big blue here.

I was talking about in gameplay. We haven't actually seen her float in gameplay footage so it might work a little differently, maybe idk.

Anyways, any new leaks today? Also woah has the attach files thing always been there or am I dumb, or both?

 

[ErenJager]

Here is mine:

Playable: Heihachi Mishima or Jin Kazama.
Echo: Kazuya Mishima.
Assist Trophies: Alisa Bosconovitch, Sophitia Alexandria.
Bosses: Ogre

That's a solid list.
True Ogre would be amazing if done in phases.

 

[NextChannelGames]

I would love to see stages base on other franchises that aren’t in the Smash roster. Stages like Frogger, Bomberman, Phantasy Star, Starfy, Chibi-Robo, Sin & punishment, Resident Evil, Endless Deep (The Wii game that you travel the ocean), and others that would be fun to play on.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I was talking about in gameplay. We haven't actually seen her float in gameplay footage so it might work a little differently, maybe idk.

Anyways, any new leaks today? Also woah has the attach files thing always been there or am I dumb, or both?

Nope, leaks have been pretty dead so far. There are many in 4 Chan if you really want to see them. But tbh don't trust any leak that can't provide remotely any proof at this point.

Making leaks has become a meme now.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Can we stop with this? Metal Gear and essentially old Castlevania have become dead franchises at this point and Konami still let Sakurai put Snake back in and didn't force him to use a Lords of Shadow Character. I highly doubt it is as complicated as it has to be.

If Square let's him use Geno, it will probably be because Sakurai has wanted to use him. Perhaps Cloud HAD to be done first to establish a working relationship with Spuare. Or perhaps he didn't and felt Cloud was a better choice now.

Point is we have no idea how 3rd party inclusions work. But I personally feel if Konami, a company considered to be even worse to work with than Square, can let Sakurai use Snake and Simon Belmont, then Square can/would let Sakurai use Geno, no matter how obscurity.

MGSV was released in 2015, that's hardly dead even if you want to ignore Survive like the rest of the world

 

[Deleted member]

I was talking about in gameplay. We haven't actually seen her float in gameplay footage so it might work a little differently, maybe idk.

Anyways, any new leaks today? Also woah has the attach files thing always been there or am I dumb, or both?

My sources tell me that Ayumi Tachibana will be playable.

 

[Cosmic77]

Playable: Heihachi Mishima or Jin Kazama.
Echo: Kazuya Mishima.
Assist Trophies: Alisa Bosconovitch, Sophitia Alexandria.
Bosses: Ogre

Fighting the urge to bring up outdated memes.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Can we stop with this? Metal Gear and essentially old Castlevania have become dead franchises at this point and Konami still let Sakurai put Snake back in and didn't force him to use a Lords of Shadow Character. I highly doubt it is as complicated as it has to be.

If Square let's him use Geno, it will probably be because Sakurai has wanted to use him. Perhaps Cloud HAD to be done first to establish a working relationship with Spuare. Or perhaps he didn't and felt Cloud was a better choice now.

Point is we have no idea how 3rd party inclusions work. But I personally feel if Konami, a company considered to be even worse to work with than Square, can let Sakurai use Snake and Simon Belmont, then Square can/would let Sakurai use Geno, no matter how obscurity.

But we have seen that Square Enix is the least cooperative company in Smash so far. Not only they haven't licensed more songs (which have their own problem), but they are also the only TP to completely lack an Assist Trophy as for now, while the other companies have multiple ones (Konami: Alucard, Grey Fox, Bomberman; Capcom: Zero, Rhantalos; SEGA: Knuckles, Rodin; Bandai Namco: Ghosts, Galaga Boss).
This is quite indicative that they are quite hard to work with, at least as far as we know (altough with just a little more than 10 AT left I doubt we will see many from them).

 

[Cosmic77]

But we have seen that Square Enix is the least cooperative company in Smash so far. Not only they haven't licensed more songs (which have their own problem), but they are also the only TP to completely lack an Assist Trophy as for now, while the other companies have multiple ones (Konami: Alucard, Grey Fox, Bomberman; Capcom: Zero, Rhantalos; SEGA: Knuckles, Rodin; Bandai Namco: Ghosts, Galaga Boss).
This is quite indicative that they are quite hard to work with, at least as far as we know (altough with just a little more than 10 AT left I doubt we will see many from them).

The lack of FF remixes and ATs when every other third-party is getting new content feels like a bad omen.

I don't know how complicated Geno would be, but from the looks of it, SE isn't going out of their way to make it easy for Sakurai.

 

[blazefan519]

Nope, leaks have been pretty dead so far. There are many in 4 Chan if you really want to see them. But tbh don't trust any leak that can't provide remotely any proof at this point.

Making leaks has become a meme now.

Leaks have always been a meme kek

My sources tell me that Ayumi Tachibana will be playable.

I don't know who that is

 

[Jocario Zero]

Surprisingly enough no one has debunked the Shadow render yet… but it might be a matter of time. I mean I could pose a Shadow 3d model and make it beautiful in photoshop anyway, so i don't think there's a need to believe that "leak" even if the model isn't debunked.

At first glance it doesnt look like any other render to me. I took a quick look at his gallery on the Sonic News Network Wiki and the one that came closest was his render from Sonic Generations. But maybe it's just me but his head in the "leaked" render looks a bit to big for me.

 

[Zeox]

Fighting the urge to bring up outdated memes.

Don't worry, I do it for you:

You're welcome

 

[Nazyrus]

At first glance it doesnt look like any other render to me. I took a quick look at his gallery on the Sonic News Network Wiki and the the one that came closest was his render from Sonic Generations. But maybe it's just me but his head in the "leaked" render looks a bit to big for me.

I saw that one while browsing but mmm the angle of the hand is not quite the same, so I doubt that's the one. Also the head and hands sizes might be due to perspective of the pose + perspective of how the photo was taken from the phone, which isn't good enough as it is.

 

[Blue7113]

https://twitter.com/grantkirkhope/status/1028735930910236672?s=20

Ouch so the composer of Banjo Kazooie "thinks" he has zero chances / doubts it highly, but of course that's just his opinion. Still kinda hurts to hear it tho.

He hasn’t worked for rare in a decade

 

[BluePikmin11]

Currently discussing with the hardcore speculator mimiqueVEVO (The person RelaxAlax was talking about) on Discord. He is a nice person to talk to. I can confirm he definitely knows his stuff when it comes to Smash speculation.

He is currently looking over my roster analysis right now for a discussion.

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Mallow

For you papagenos love your content. So, I'm glad you noticed. :D

 

[YeahVeryeah]

The lack of FF remixes and ATs when every other third-party is getting new content feels like a abad omen.

I don't know how complicated Geno would be, but from the looks of it, SE isn't going out of their way to make it easy for Sakurai.

What if I told you they already got rights to Geno... In Smash4? Cloud's representation is identical to that in Smash4. It's very likely the same deal extending through both games.

It's been observed that the smash ballot wasn't for Smash4; Bayo was decided before it the poll concluded.

When Sakurai got the rights to Geno's likeness, they likely got everything they needed for ultimate.

 

[Deleted member]

If I had to take a guess, that Shadow render is probably one of the millions you can find on Deviantart.

Honestly, the only way I believe a leak nowadays is if there's video evidence. Screens and renders are reaaaally easy to fake for those familiar with graphic design nowadays.

...Also, why did this person MS-Paint over the bottom of the render, leaving only his head exposed? A part of me wants it to be them trying to cover up a Deviantart watermark. That would be pretty funny, lol.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Currently discussing with the hardcore speculator mimiqueVEVO (The person RelaxAlax was talking about) on Discord. He is a nice person to talk to. I can confirm he definitely knows his stuff when it comes to Smash speculation.

He is currently looking over my roster analysis right now for a discussion.

Now tell him about the Hanafuda bet

 

[Deleted member]

...Also, why did this person MS-Paint over the bottom of the render, leaving only his head exposed? A part of me wants it to be them trying to cover up a Deviantart watermark. That would be pretty funny, lol.

That's why Sonic's colors are just slightly different shades of blue. Sakurai doesn't want to steal anyone's OCs.

 

[blazefan519]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/428334256/we-werent-supposed-to-take-pictures-but-here

Has someone already debunked this render of Shadow yet? I honestly don't follow the sonic series that much to know. Probably fake as usual.

I'm as big of a sonic fan as you can get sadly, but no, this render isn't from any of the games or any fan renders iirc. But that doesn't mean much since people can make renders specifically for roster leaks anyways.

 

[Nazyrus]

I'm as big of a sonic fan as you can get sadly, but no, this render isn't from any of the games or any fan renders iirc. But that doesn't mean much since people can make renders specifically for roster leaks anyways.

Yeah that's what i thought too. The guy now is saying the Skull kid render he saw from the menu where he saw shadow, is indeed not the same as the fake ones we've been seeing. So who knows…

 

[KMDP]

My sources tell me that Ayumi Tachibana will be playable.

Does your "source" go by the name of "Tougon's Brain"?

Oh, no, wait. "Tougon's Brain" would be saying Homura.

 

[Momotsuki]

So yesterday I had been thinking a bit. What if the Guardian Scout III were to end up appearing as a boss in Spirits, or whatever mode the bosses end up appearing in? I think it could be very interesting. What do you guys think?
​