Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Arcadenik]

Konami kills their IPs, skips the funeral for it, and grave robs them while everyone is watching the IPs about to be buried. At least Capcom lets them die in peace. I find it odd that Konami *currently* has more stuff in Smash than Capcom and Namco

Well, it’s probably Konami’s way of apologizing to the fans.

 

[UltimateWario]

What would the point of a Hilda Echo be? She has even less to differentiate her from her original than Grumpy Pit does.

 

[Untouch]

ken and shadow are very safe picks, like chrom, wolf and dark samus, the corresponding costume was removed from the character they're based off of

 

[ErenJager]

I'm not really surprised we haven't seen tomb raider, resident evil, silent hill etc as playable characters in Smash. All the other third parties have legacy franchises dating back nes/ arcade. With the exception of Sega.

But for assist trophies, maybe i'm a little surprised.

Maybe its a situation like their too big to be AT's and not big enough to be playable.

Or maybe they'll be a DLC consideration.

 

[dezeray112]

Source?

Here it is in question:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76915219/907129160

 

[Cosmic77]

What would the point of a Hilda Echo be? She has even less to differentiate her from her original than Grumpy Pit does.

You'd get a Zelda Echo, but that's about it.

Not sure if semi-clones are even on Sakurai's radar anymore, but I'd take Toon Zelda over Hilda any day. At least the size difference would help you feel like you're playing with a different character.

 

[ErenJager]

What if Shadow becomes an Alph alt for Sonic.

...and Tails is the echo.

 

[Deleted member]

ken and shadow are very safe picks, like chrom, wolf and dark samus, the corresponding costume was removed from the character they're based off of

There never was a Ken costume though. Ryu's removed costume is based off of Dan.

 

[Untouch]

I never played ALBW, outside of minor cosmetic changes, what makes hilda different? I know she's the dark world zelda but does she even fight? (Zelda's moves are mostly based off of OoT with one based off of PH, so idk if that even applies).

 

[Guybrush20X6]

What would the point of a Hilda Echo be? She has even less to differentiate her from her original than Grumpy Pit does.

OBJECTION!

How so? LBW Zelda and Hilda have similar design but have plenty of aesthetic differences.

Note the different tiaras, that Zelda has bracelets wheile Hilda has Gloves and of course the staff.

Dark Pit on the other hand, literally Pit's Brawl Costume with red eyes.

As for Hilda's powers, she has similar sealing powers to Zelda but they're designed like black throny vines which would make for some cool magical effects.

 

[Deleted member]

What if Shadow becomes an Alph alt for Sonic.

...and Tails is the echo.

I'd be ****ing pissed.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

ken and shadow are very safe picks, like chrom, wolf and dark samus, the corresponding costume was removed from the character they're based off of

What do you mean Wolf? We already knew Wolf was back before we got to see Fox's palettes

 

[Guybrush20X6]

And Zelda's missing the obvious Hilda alt color which raises some flags.

Hyrule Warriors had a Hilda alt color before the game had LBW content proper so you know how strange this is.

 

[Untouch]

And Zelda's missing the obvious Hilda alt color which raises some flags.

Hyrule Warriors had a Hilda alt color before the game had LBW content proper so you know how strange this is.

Doesn't look like she ever had a Hilda alt.

Smash 3DS was released relatively close to ALBW though maybe that just missed the deadline.

 

[Deleted member]

Dark Pit on the other hand, literally Pit's Brawl Costume with red eyes.

And lack of arrow marker on his hand.
And lack of glowing rings around his arm.
And different colored bow (which is why he doesn't have the previous two things; those are exclusive to the Palutena Bow)

And being nitpicky:
-Black hair instead of dark brown
-Gold laurel crown like regular Pit instead of blue-ish black
-Completely different scarf design
-Gold armband and legband and gold trim around the bracelets like regular Pit instead of silver
-That gold vertical stripe on his pants
-Different colored shoes
-etc.


Simply put, saying he's "literally Pit's Brawl Costume with red eyes" is flat out wrong.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

As much as I like Hilda, her being an echo depends if we get over 10 echo fighters as there are more worthy additions like Shadow, Ken, and Impa.

 

[Deleted member]

And Zelda's missing the obvious Hilda alt color which raises some flags.

Hyrule Warriors had a Hilda alt color before the game had LBW content proper so you know how strange this is.

There was no Hilda costume in Smash 4 either so I don't see what your point is.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

Wait why aren't we taking loz seriously anymore? Far as I know he hasn't gotten anything wrong yet.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

There was no Hilda costume in Smash 4 either so I don't see what your point is.

My point is when you add a particular version of Zelda who is known for having a "dark" counterpart and you don't put her in as an alt costume it raises suspicion.

 

[Deleted member]

Wait why aren't we taking loz seriously anymore? Far as I know he hasn't gotten anything wrong yet.

He got everything about the Direct wrong and we have no reason to believe he has any inside information. Iirc, he claimed that the E3 info came from a friend of his that got to play the DEMO early, it makes no sense he would have info about the rest of the game.
Not to mention he's clearly only doing this for attention considering the Verg stunt and all of his tweets. He shouldn't be taken seriously.

My point is when you add a particular version of Zelda who is known for having a "dark" counterpart and you don't put her in as an alt costume it raises suspicion.

But she mever had any in the first place, if you want to go by that logic then it is much more suspicious Ryu still doesn't have Ken colors.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

There was no Hilda costume in Smash 4 either so I don't see what your point is.

To be fair, Ultimate Zelda's design is based off Triforce of the Gods so she has even more reason to have a Hilda recolor. Though not every character gets alts that are "obvious" for them to get.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The thing I like least about Ken as a potential echo fighter is doubling the odds to get Ryu when playing with a random character. That character is just impossible to use if you don't main him.

Maybe that is something that changes with our roster display option? If we have Ryu and Ken in one space, for example, perhaps its not doubled.

 

[Deleted member]

To me, the most glaring omission of alternate colors is Fire Mario. That's THE alternative color anyone thinks when talking about him so why was it removed?

 

[Rikka]

I can only imagine it had to do with both it and the wedding outfit both being primarily white. It's a tragic loss regardless.

 

[KMDP]

What would the point of a Hilda Echo be? She has even less to differentiate her from her original than Grumpy Pit does.

You'd get a Zelda Echo, but that's about it.

Not sure if semi-clones are even on Sakurai's radar anymore, but I'd take Toon Zelda over Hilda any day. At least the size difference would help you feel like you're playing with a different character.

Idea!

Hilda as a Zelda Echo. All her specials are variations of Zelda's (with one exception).

Normal Attacks are the same, if her attacks have vertical knockback they launch in the opposite direction where sensible.​

Neutral B: A Spell that absorbs projectiles instead of reflects them.​

Side B: An Ice Spell instead of a Fire Spell.​

Up B: Works like "Farore's Windfall" from Smash 4 (you can only teleport up, but if you hit when you reappear the hit spikes)​

Down B: A Thunder spell, works like Pikachu's Thunder, but strikes either side of Hilda instead.​

Final Smash: Basically the same as Zelda's. The Triforce piece spins in the opposite direction as a cosmetic difference.​

If differences don't exist, you make them.

Vaati as a Zelda Semi-Clone.

As a Toon Character, he has the same basic model as Toon Link (maybe slightly taller).​

Normal Attacks are pretty much the same, but have Wind or Darkness cosmetic appearances.​

Neutral B: A Wind Vortex that works like "Nayru's Rejection" (basically, it functions like a bi-directional Super Cape).​

Side B: A Wind Spell which is basically Link's old Gale Boomerang.​

Up B: Revali's Gale (...what?) | Okay, fine - "Farore's Squall" from Smash 4 (travels slower and deals no damage, but travels a greater distance and you push opponents away when you disappear)​

Down B: Shadow Barrier (works like Mega Man's Down B, takes the form of Black Energy Spheres)​

Final Smash: Vaati's Wrath (works like Mr Game & Watch's new Octopus Final Smash)​

Wasn't terribly hard, really.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Spoiler

It's songs I want in Smash as remixes F-Zero edition, click the spoiler for the whole list! (I didn't include Port Town SNES because it was on my old list)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Konami kills their IPs, skips the funeral for it, and grave robs them while everyone is watching the IPs about to be buried. At least Capcom lets them die in peace. I find it odd that Konami *currently* has more stuff in Smash than Capcom and Namco

Capcom and Sega might likely surpass them thanks to Street Fighter having about 36 songs alone and the possibility of Ken being an echo, while Sonic has 20 songs confirmed, two stages, a new assist trophy, and the possibility of Shadow as an echo

Content from Bayonetta and Mega Man will obvious help aswell (hell Bayo could even get an echo in Jeanne...but that would be hell), but outside of Rodin becoming an AT and having 11 songs while Zero is replacing Elec Man as well as a new remix medley, not much has been shown from either series...

Namco has Pac-Man, the possibility of another rep, and tons of Namco songs and an item...but I can’t think of anything else they can do to have more stuff

Square Enix is getting nothing new practically

 

[Sharkarat]

I don't think you should to much into Zelda missing a Hilda. Ganondorf get none of obvious inspirations for colors. No Demise color, no Yuga color.

Mario losing his Fire mario alt is really bad.

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler

It's songs I want in Smash F-Zero edition, click the spoiler for the whole list! (I didn't include Port Town SNES because it was on my old list)

Red Canyon is in Smash 4 and Vegas Palace (Shotgun Kiss) is in Brawl and Smash 4.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Red Canyon is in Smash 4 and Vegas Palace (Shotgun Kiss) is in Brawl and Smash 4.

Yeah... but I kinda want them as... remixes tbh...

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

So it seems Vergeben hinted Ken

Here it is in question:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76915219/907129160

Very subtle hinting

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I don't think you should to much into Zelda missing a Hilda. Ganondorf get none of obvious inspirations for colors. No Demise color, no Yuga color.

Mario losing his Fire mario alt is really bad.

The biggest nerf Mario has taken

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Hilda's chances are mostly linked to how nuts they're going with the Echo concept and if any series gets more than one as Impa as a Sheik Echo would most likely come first what with the ballot and all.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Keep in mind that a leak doesn't become any less true just because you don't like it. Look back at the ESRB leak for reference.

Regardless, this is just Loz stating his opinions, not actual leaks. From the looks of it, he doesn't know much more than we do. Nothing to get worked up over.

He claimed he knew about k rool

But isn’t that a lie since he though it hints K. Rool with the heroes vs Villians theme

That doesn’t sound like he knew about k rool

 

[P.Kat]

What if Shadow becomes an Alph alt for Sonic.

...and Tails is the echo.

That depends, do I get Blaze the Cat as a newcomer?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Square Enix is getting nothing new practically

Many think Geno.
Though I'm hoping Sora. Somehow. Someway. Somewhere.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

On the topic of Shadow vs Tails a while back, apart of me actually kind of expects Tails to get in as a totally original newcomer. Like, I won't be betting any money on it, but while Shadow has popularity behind him Tails has legacy. Way more people recognize the fox then the edgehog. This might be overstating it, but sometimes I feel like he's almost as much of a cultural icon as Sonic himself. And honestly, I kind of expect Sakurai himself to care more about Tails than about Sonic. I might be mistaken, but didn't he say he was a fan of the simplicity of classic Sonic games before?

In terms of moveset, I expect him to kind of like Luigi in that he's not really a clone but his moveset is clearly just a different take on their counterpart's. I can also imagine him using his tails a lot in his moveset, such as for a rapid jab or an U-air that's similar to Pit's. And of course, he'd have to have a totally unique recovery.

I still really expect Shadow to be an echo fighter of Shadow either way, especially since Echo fighters seem to be based on popularity so far. But if any 3rd party franchise is going to get a second completely unique character, it's going to be the Luigi to Sonic's Mario.

Oh man I hope you're right. I just want Tails to finally get in Smash. I need to recreate that EGM hoax now that we're getting the right stage and everything, and I'd hate to see Shadow and Knux get promoted while Tails is stuck in that loop.

What if Shadow becomes an Alph alt for Sonic.

...and Tails is the echo.

I'd totally take it! I actually prefer Tails to have classic moves

---

Well, it’s probably Konami’s way of apologizing to the fans.

After all of the bad PR from Kojima's departure, I'm betting that they're barely asking any IP fees to Smash since they want to try to save their rep at this point.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The biggest nerf Mario has taken

And then Fire Mario was confirmed as an alt.

 

[Zeox]

Neither Verge or Loz knew if K.Rool was even in the game, I'm not trusting Loz's opinion that Geno isn't in. That just sounds absurd at this point. Isaac I can understand since Sakurai doesn't acknowledge his existence at all, but GENO not being in when Ridley/K.Rool are?!

I'm still betting that Geno is another well-kept secret like K.Rool was.

Sakurai said that he wanted Geno to be in, but what if it is Square enix the one that doesn't want to let Geno in?
They are the ones that have the rights of the character (I think?), if they doesn't allow Sakurai to put Geno then he can't do anything.
That is the only reason I could see Geno not being in Smash.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Well, it’s probably Konami’s way of apologizing to the fans.

What kind of an apology doesn't include Frogger?