Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CosmicQuark]

Dragon Ball is primarily a manga and anime franchise, yes it has games but having games doesn't make the franchise significant to gaming so there's really no reason to add him into a fighting game focused on video game franchises. Spongebob has hella games on and off nintendo systems too but that doesn't mean it should be in smash since it's a cartoon first and foremost.

I mean you say that, but Spongebob having the bubble powers from Battle for Bikini Bottom would be sweet.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Dios, los fanboys goku son los usuarios más obstinados y molestos ...

Sí. Hola como estas? ¿Eres nuevo aquí?

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think you know what wasted potential means, man


Are you implying it's impossible to be unique with only two games just because you share the same name as someone you pretty much cloned yourself after?

No, I'm saying that characters who are far more prominent and popular her and don't have anyone else within their series to compete with for priority won't receive the same treatment as Dark Samus.

 

[DevaAshera]

Question, anyone think that since they changed Zelda's appearance to A Link between worlds, they actually have plans to add Hilda into the game? Thinking more about it, Hilda is an excellent character to add as an Echo.

Well, according to the Japanese E3 Direct, Zelda is actually the A Link to the Past incarnation (he said the Triforce of the Gods, not Triforce of the Gods 2, easy mistake to make)..but her design is a mix of both LttP and LBW..so it's okay.

I'm not saying it will happen.
I'm not saying it's likely to happen.
I just would not be surprised if it did happen.
The moments there's a trailer for Goku - suddenly all these rules and expectations mean nothing. I saw it with Cloud in Smash 4. Sakurai breaks rules and expectations.

No..he doesn't. Sakurai only has 1 rule for 3rd Party characters, No Manga Characters (which includes characters like Batman as all comics are called manga in Japan and likely also counts anime, cartoons, etc).
He also says it would be nice to be an icon of gaming and nice as a courtesy to have appeared on Nintendo consoles, both of which are things Cloud is (he's appeared on GBA & 3DS titles).
Honestly, Cloud fits just as much as Snake.

Hilda might work as an Echo, but I don't think they should add her.

Contrary to popular belief, Echoes are not effortless clones that take 0 hours and 0 minutes to create. You still have to create a unique model with a few different visuals and animations. If Sakurai considered multiple characters as Echoes, there's a good chance he had to trim his selection down and toss aside a few extras. Not to offend her supporters or anything, but I really don't believe Hilda should be prioritized over others. Sakurai would be adding her for the sole purpose of having a Zelda Echo, not because she's iconic or popular among the community.

I mostly just wanted her as a colour option, like Peach had Daisy in the past, but Sakurai still hasn't included one..

Well except for Lucario who debuted in an anime movie. People like to say he was designed for the games first, which likely isn't true since by this time Pokemom was a fulfledged multimedia franchise. They needed a specific pokemon with a specific look to fulfill a specific role.

They did this with Lugia in Pokemon 2000 he was designed for the movie. He wasnt even in the beta of gold and silver. He appeared as a pokeball pokemon in smash.

I know this is a massive contrast.

But like "no anime characters" is a rule today.
And then suddenly one day... It's not. Just like when he said he couldn't add villager or Ridley.

I wouldnt be surprised if one day Sakurai was just like "anime has made it's contributions tp video games too - so I felt like adding a guest as a nod of recognition to that."

To say this is impossible... Its closed minded.
To say its highly unlikely... Thats fair.

Lucario and Lugia were designed for the games, the anime does not design original Pokémon. The Gold/Silver beta was from 1997, the final game released Nov 1999, the second movie released July 1999. They likely planned Lugia as Ho-oh's counterpart long in advance, definitely before the movie's development which was meant to be an early look / advertisement for Gold/Silver.

The same definitely holds true for Lucario since games take longer to develop then movies.

Nowhere has it ever even been hinted to not be the case and I'm pretty sure someone would have said so by now..

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo released a mini famicom classic with a dragon ball theme...

Idk I think Goku has a shot.

Goku's got shot, just not a big one.

I'd rather have Ayumi if we must have a Famicom exclusive character.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

True, but from Brawl onwards, he's been "marth" exclusively. If they were to shorten it, I'd expect something more like "krool" or "samusd." Other name shortenings tend not to use the Japanese. pra_mai is the expection at this point.

Diddy Kong = "diddy" not "didi"
Donkey Kong = "donkey" not "donki"

Also, some internal names can get pretty long, like "pokefushigisou," "pokezenigame," "miiswordsman," or "metaknight," all of which are longer than "kingkrool."

Regardless, the internal names are the least of this "leak's" issues. It's just another possible inconsistency on top of an impossible story.

Dr. Mario's unused character file in Brawl was called "dr_mario", yet in Smash 4 his filename was "mariod". I think the CEO leak is most likely fake, but we do got precedence that filenames can change from Brawl onward when a character makes the jump to playable.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Well, according to the Japanese E3 Direct, Zelda is actually the A Link to the Past incarnation (he said the Triforce of the Gods, not Triforce of the Gods 2, easy mistake to make)..but her design is a mix of both LttP and LBW..so it's okay.

Weird, the English direct messed that up then?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Nintendo released a mini famicom classic with a dragon ball theme...

Idk I think Goku has a shot.

But it's not like Sakurai himself made that, it has no bearing on his decisions

and that interview was from 2015, he has no shot for this game at least

 

[ErenJager]

Well, according to the Japanese E3 Direct, Zelda is actually the A Link to the Past incarnation (he said the Triforce of the Gods, not Triforce of the Gods 2, easy mistake to make)..but her design is a mix of both LttP and LBW..so it's okay.

No..he doesn't. Sakurai only has 1 rule for 3rd Party characters, No Manga Characters (which includes characters like Batman as all comics are called manga in Japan and likely also counts anime, cartoons, etc).
He also says it would be nice to be an icon of gaming and nice as a courtesy to have appeared on Nintendo consoles, both of which are things Cloud is (he's appeared on GBA & 3DS titles).
Honestly, Cloud fits just as much as Snake.

I mostly just wanted her as a colour option, like Peach had Daisy in the past, but Sakurai still hasn't included one..

Lucario and Lugia were designed for the games, the anime does not design original Pokémon. The Gold/Silver beta was from 1997, the final game released Nov 1999, the second movie released July 1999. They likely planned Lugia as Ho-oh's counterpart long in advance, definitely before the movie's development which was meant to be an early look / advertisement for Gold/Silver.

The same definitely holds true for Lucario since games take longer to develop then movies.

Nowhere has it ever even been hinted to not be the case and I'm pretty sure someone would have said so by now..

There's an official source for lugia so i know your just making stuff up.

 

[AlphaSSB]

I know we must be stripped for topics to discuss, but I fail to see why we're even discussing if anime characters have a chance.

Sakurai has specifically said no to the idea before. He's specifically said that Smash Bros. is a video game crossover for video game characters.

I'm pretty sure a big reason why Miis ended up in Smash was because it allowed players to add anyone into their game experience. Including the players themselves or characters like Goku. Hence why there were trailers for the Miis that showed off Abraham Lincoln, Elijah Wood, and Ice-T.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

SO! Here's an idea! Imagine Style Savvy gets announced as a newcomer. How do you feel?

 

[Kuon]

Anime has been in Smash since the beginning.

But Pikachu and Jigglypuff originated on the GameBoy in Japan, so they're videogame characters and not anime characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Dr. Mario's unused character file in Brawl was called "dr_mario", yet in Smash 4 his filename was "mariod". I think the CEO leak is most likely fake, but we do got precedence that filenames can change from Brawl onward when a character makes the jump to playable.

Dr. Mario's kind of weird in Smash 4. His fighter folder is mariod, and his ui is DrMario. But ye, using the filenames to disprove doesn't really help much especially when the "leak" shoots itself in the foot in some other places.

 

[WaxPython]

A Manga character is someone who originated in a manga.
Use your brain my guy.

A manga character is technically anyone that's appeared in a manga, did Pikachu make an appearance as a character in this manga I'm reading? Yes? then he's a manga character oh and he's in smash.

Did goku appear as a character in a video game on a Nintendo console? Yes? Then he's a video game character at that moment.

If we are using origins then Rob isnt a video game character it is a toy designer to sell Nintendo consoles. Fans will use the but it's Nintendo as an excuse to squeeze Sakurai'd quotes into teir agenda.

Truth is life isn't black and white, circumstances change and how we perceive truth really depends on our own point of view, we can call goku an anime character, a video game character, a movie character, all are correct and it depends on what perspective we view him much like an image that appears different to each person looking at it, Goku's status as a character is up to the eye of the beholder.

TLDR if Rob a toy can get in, so can Goku imho and I would like to see him in smash as would many fans. Situation changes over time so no one can say it cannot happen because it can as history has shown us never say never

 

[DevaAshera]

Weird, the English direct messed that up then?

Yeah, it's an easy mistake to make. In Japanese, these are the game titles..
LttP: Triforce of the Gods
LBW: Triforce of the Gods 2
They probably mistakenly believed Sakurai meant LBW due to it being the newer game and Zelda's design taking elements from both games.
Since her design does pull from both though, I consider both to be correct.

A manga character is technically anyone that's appeared in a manga, did Pikachu make an appearance as a character in this manga I'm reading? Yes? then he's a manga character oh and he's in smash.

Did goku appear as a character in a video game on a Nintendo console? Yes? Then he's a video game character at that moment.

If we are using origins then Rob isnt a video game character it is a toy designer to sell Nintendo consoles. Fans will use the but it's Nintendo as an excuse to squeeze Sakurai'd quotes into teir agenda.

Truth is life isn't black and white, circumstances change and how we perceive truth really depends on our own point of view, we can call goku an anime character, a video game character, a movie character, all are correct and it depends on what perspective we view him much like an image that appears different to each person looking at it, Goku's status as a character is up to the eye of the beholder.

TLDR if Rob a toy can get in, so can Goku imho and I would like to see him in smash as would many fans. Situation changes over time so no one can say it cannot happen because it can as history has shown us never say never

Sakurai meant origin and you know it..no one will go 'Goku? Oh yeah, he's from that video game'.
A video game character is a character particularly known for appearing in video games, not just a character that has appeared in one.

ROB was also more a video game accessory then a toy, so it still fits. He was made only to be used with a video game. He's also owned by Nintendo and known for being a video game accessory, not for being a toy.

 

[Noipoi]

Nintendo released a mini famicom classic with a dragon ball theme...

Idk I think Goku has a shot.

From the beginning Super Smash Brothers wass about one thing, one single solitary thing.
VIDEO. GAME. CHARACTERS.
Ya know who's a video game character? Mario. Ya know who's a video game character? Pikachu.
That should be all the evidence you need to know it's never happening.

SO! Here's an idea! Imagine Style Savvy gets announced as a newcomer. How do you feel?

Immense joy.

 

[Kuon]

SO! Here's an idea! Imagine Style Savvy gets announced as a newcomer. How do you feel?

I don't know, but the Style Savvy song in Smash 4 was an awesome song

 

[Will]

Here's how a Goku discussion goes down in Sakurai's office:

"Hey, Goku scored pretty high on the ballot. What do you think?"
"He's not a video game character, and licensing would be hell. Who else is on there?"
"Let me see. How about King K. Rool?"
"That's better."

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

From the beginning Super Smash Brothers wass about one thing, one single solitary thing.
VIDEO. GAME. CHARACTERS.
Ya know who's a video game character? Mario. Ya know who's a video game character? Pikachu.
That should be all the evidence you need to know it's never happening.

Immense joy.

I don't think he understands what counts as a manga character and what counts as a video game character.

SO! Here's an idea! Imagine Style Savvy gets announced as a newcomer. How do you feel?

Who dat

 

[UberMadman]

Dr. Mario's unused character file in Brawl was called "dr_mario", yet in Smash 4 his filename was "mariod". I think the CEO leak is most likely fake, but we do got precedence that filenames can change from Brawl onward when a character makes the jump to playable.

Worth noting that files for both “dr_mario” and “mariod” existed in the data for Brawl.

Source: https://www.ssbwiki.com/Unused_content_(SSBB)

 

[Noipoi]

A manga character is technically anyone that's appeared in a manga, did Pikachu make an appearance as a character in this manga I'm reading? Yes? then he's a manga character oh and he's in smash.

Did goku appear as a character in a video game on a Nintendo console? Yes? Then he's a video game character at that moment.

If we are using origins then Rob isnt a video game character it is a toy designer to sell Nintendo consoles. Fans will use the but it's Nintendo as an excuse to squeeze Sakurai'd quotes into teir agenda.

Truth is life isn't black and white, circumstances change and how we perceive truth really depends on our own point of view, we can call goku an anime character, a video game character, a movie character, all are correct and it depends on what perspective we view him much like an image that appears different to each person looking at it, Goku's status as a character is up to the eye of the beholder.

TLDR if Rob a toy can get in, so can Goku imho and I would like to see him in smash as would many fans. Situation changes over time so no one can say it cannot happen because it can as history has shown us never say never

GOKU ORIGINATED FROM A MANGA.
yes, Pikachu was in a manga, but it ORIGINATED from a video game.
Goku didn't. Goku originated from a Manga.
Goku isn't happening.

 

[ErenJager]

But it's not like Sakurai himself made that, it has no bearing on his decisions

and that interview was from 2015, he has no shot for this game at least

Actually we've seen in interviews that Nintendo can come to him and have influence on his decisions.

That interview is old news - spoke mostly to Smash 4.

New game, new system, years later.

Namco still only has 1 character despite developing the game.

Goku has a shot.

 

[KMDP]

Lucario and Lugia were designed for the games, the anime does not design original Pokémon. The Gold/Silver beta was from 1997, the final game released Nov 1999, the second movie released July 1999. They likely planned Lugia as Ho-oh's counterpart long in advance, definitely before the movie's development which was meant to be an early look / advertisement for Gold/Silver.

The same definitely holds true for Lucario since games take longer to develop then movies.

Actually, I think Lugia might have been created quite late in Gold and Silver's development (relatively late, at least)

It doesn't appear at all in the Space World Demos, for instance (not even in the Silver Version).

...

... Wait, the anime started in 1997, the year the Space World GS Demo was revealed... The end of the first episode makes sense considering the Space World Demo. I wonder what they had planned for Ho-Oh, originally?

Ho-Oh's appearance in Pokémon Episode 1 made fans, when they found out there were originally going to be 190 Pokémon in Red and Green, believe Ho-Oh was one of the original 190, but Satoshi Tajiri confirmed that it wasn't. We now know Ho-Oh was always a part of Gold and Silver's story.

A mystery...

 

[BlueMagician]

Weird, the English direct messed that up then?

Maybe? The Japanese direct says 'Kamigami no Triforce', which is the name of both Link to the Past and Link Between Worlds (which is just 'Kamigami no Triforce 2). I think he meant the first one but then the design combines both so maybe he meant both?

Either that or it's a Freudian slip.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

SO! Here's an idea! Imagine Style Savvy gets announced as a newcomer. How do you feel?

Im a sucker for unconventional move sets, so I’d like to see how a newcomer from that series might work in game.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

SO! Here's an idea! Imagine Style Savvy gets announced as a newcomer. How do you feel?

Probably about the same as honestly.

 

[Will]

TLDR if Rob a toy can get in, so can Goku imho

That's an unfair comparison considering:

1. R.O.B. is a video game character, but mainly exists as a video game peripheral.
2. R.O.B. is pretty much what saved the industry
3. Goku isn't on the same ****ing plane as R.O.B. don't be delusional.

Am I saying Goku is entirely impossible, though? No, but not for your reasons.
Do I think he could make it in any Smash game? Don't make me laugh.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Actually we've seen in interviews that Nintendo can come to him and have influence on his decisions.

That interview is old news - spoke mostly to Smash 4.

New game, new system, years later.

Namco still only has 1 character despite developing the game.

Goku has a shot.

Y'know they considered adding Heihachi right? There's also Lloyd as well. Plenty of video game characters to choose from.

 

[Kuon]

From the beginning Super Smash Brothers wass about one thing, one single solitary thing.
VIDEO. GAME. CHARACTERS.
Ya know who's a video game character? Mario. Ya know who's a video game character? Pikachu.
That should be all the evidence you need to know it's never happening.

It's all about who Sakurai wants to put in the game (as well as how much time they have and legal rights, etc.) and based on characters he's added in the past, I don't think he'd want to put in Goku, just based on the roster.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Actually we've seen in interviews that Nintendo can come to him and have influence on his decisions.

That interview is old news - spoke mostly to Smash 4.

New game, new system, years later.

Namco still only has 1 character despite developing the game.

Goku has a shot.

Just because they could doesn't mean they will.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Actually we've seen in interviews that Nintendo can come to him and have influence on his decisions.

That interview is old news - spoke mostly to Smash 4.

New game, new system, years later.

Namco still only has 1 character despite developing the game.

Goku has a shot.

You're right, Goku DOES have a shot!

Oh. Well, not anymore

I don't think he understands what counts as a manga character and what counts as a video game character.

Who dat

Style Savvy is a fashion dressup game, sells really well yet I figured as most people here an't into that kind of stuff, everyone would forget it exists

 

[Noipoi]

Goku has a shot.

He really, really doesn't.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

But Pikachu and Jigglypuff originated on the GameBoy in Japan, so they're videogame characters and not anime characters.

Don’t ruin the anime moment

I know we must be stripped for topics to discuss, but I fail to see why we're even discussing if anime characters have a chance.

Because we haven’t talked about such foolishness in weeks (probably 2)

Actually we've seen in interviews that Nintendo can come to him and have influence on his decisions.

That interview is old news - spoke mostly to Smash 4.

New game, new system, years later.

Namco still only has 1 character despite developing the game.

Goku has a shot.

Anyone from Tekken or Soul Caliber...Ms.Pac-Man

You're right, Goku DOES have a shot!

Oh. Well, not anymore

I really don’t get how Goku forgot about him

 

[WolfCypher]

On the topic of characters that are from video games primarily.
Regarding the MH stage shown off in the trailer. While it is very likely story related, it was shown off after the stages part of the direct, which could be why it wasn't shown on the stage selection screen, and why it isnt on the site.
I was thinking, MH doesn't have a logo on the My Music page even though it should if it has a boss battle (other is only for songs that appear in 1 game, the Rathalos theme appears in a lot of the MH series), but Rathalos was shown after the My Music section.

Simple answer could be its listed under the OTHER category. The Direct did say songs from games that are under-represented, or are just single tracks are together in the Other/Misc music list.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

You're right, Goku DOES have a shot!

Oh. Well, not anymore

Style Savvy is a fashion dressup game, sells really well yet I figured as most people here an't into that kind of stuff, everyone would forget it exists

Can we dress up fighters in whatever clothes we want?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Actually we've seen in interviews that Nintendo can come to him and have influence on his decisions.

That interview is old news - spoke mostly to Smash 4.

New game, new system, years later.

Namco still only has 1 character despite developing the game.

Goku has a shot.

that interview was from 2015, when the project plan for this game was made, he has no shot.

Nintendo can, doesn't mean it will have an impact on his decision, he ultimately has final say on the roster, and there's really no benefit for nintendo in asking sakurai to add goku when he's not even their character. he's not namco's character either, if they wanted another character they'd ask for lloyd or heihachi, not a character they don't own.

 

[Deleted member]

You're right, Goku DOES have a shot!

Oh. Well, not anymore

I can't believe Son Goku is ****ing dead.

 

[Noipoi]

Goku's in a million fighting games already, why do people demand he be in the one that isn't made for him?

 

[Will]

I can't believe Son Goku is ****ing dead.

He died like twice in Z dude he'll just come back

 

[Kuon]

Just because they could doesn't mean they will.

Exactly. For another example, one of the developers for Shantae has spoken with Sakurai several times about wanting her in the game and they've even made alternate costumes she could use in the game (as shown in the picture). But just because she could be in the game doesn't mean Sakurai wants to put her in. I mean, he doesn't look very happy about the idea in this picture. lol. (This image is from WreckitRyan's video)