Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

[thing] would be wasted potential.

wanna talk about wasted potential and the amount of "who gives a **** in the end"?

 

[ErenJager]

Cloud never broke any "rules"? He was definitely possible, but more a possibility than a probability at the time.

also would like to request the apparent rule list you nagged from Sakurai's closet?

Buddy, i remember mentioning Cloud and I got an onslaught of "hes a playstation icon" and he's "never really been on a nintendo console" etc etc... Cloud was never seen as likely

 

[Will]

Buddy, i remember mentioning Cloud and I got an onslaught of "hes a playstation icon" and he's "never really been on a nintendo console" etc etc... Cloud was never seen as likely

You say that like you didn't see that I joined before you. Besides that, he was still possible. Just not perceived as probable.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Cloud never broke any "rules"? He was definitely possible, but more a possibility than a probability at the time.

Pretty much every "rule" that was broken wasn't an actual rule as much as fan rule. The whole "no manga character" rule is an actual rule that has been confirmed and which hasn't ever been broken.

 

[Kuon]

Cloud never broke any "rules"? He was definitely possible, but more a possibility than a probability at the time.

also would like to request the apparent rule list you nagged from Sakurai's closet?

Are there even any rules to begin with? Sakurai does what he wants. It's his game. I think the only rules he has to follow (aside from legal stuff) would be the rules set by Nintendo

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

You say that like you didn't see that I joined before you. Besides that, he was still possible. Just not perceived as probable.

Follow up to that statement you said, possible gets thrown around a lot more than probable. We really should be saying probable instead of possible tbh.

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty much every "rule" that was broken wasn't an actual rule as much as fan rule. The whole "no manga character" rule is an actual rule that has been confirmed and which hasn't ever been broken.

My Dad is Nintendo and he said that Sakurai told him that adding Shulk broke the "no Xenoblade characters" rule that was in place since Smash 64.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

The classic sonic discourse kinda shows that bias can hit serious smash discussions pretty easily. Yall really think Sakurai is gonna go "Yeah I want Sonic but his newer games are **** it's Classic Sonic Mania forever Babyyyyyy". He's gonna choose echo fighters based on feasability and popularity and shadow fits both of those bills. Classic Sonic doesn't even have the same size/shape as sonic so it's going to be a lot more effort to make him an echo fighter over shadow. Just because you don't like any of the 3d sonic games doesn't mean classic sonic makes more sense.

 

[ErenJager]

You say that like you didn't see that I joined before you. Besides that, he was still possible. Just not perceived as probable.

Well you must have been inactive or something to think Cloud didn't shock and surprise the fandom at the time of his inclusion. You came off ignorant like he was foreseeable.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Are there even any rules to begin with?

"No manga characters" is an actual rule.

 

[CosmicQuark]

A bit of a dumb question but one I've been mulling over do to all the fan hype.

What does Shadow mean to the Sonic franchise?

I'm serious.

I don't think it's a dumb question, as there's a large difference of opinion among old school and new school fans on Shadow.

For me, Sonic represents old school Sonic (outside of using the modern design and homing attack), whereas Shadow represents more modern Sonic, being the most popular of the Adventure era (the era I grew up in). Given that Smash Sonic is a mixture of new school and old school, it doesn't make much of a difference. But I feel like if Sonic's going to get another character, it'll be an echo--though there are ways to differentiate them, such as Shadow's chaos control.

Also, Sonic Adventure 2 is my favorite of the series, so it'd be awesome to see for me personally. It's a shame if he's an echo, we won't get a hype trailer recreating SA2 scenes, or a stage with space colony ARK in the background.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

"No manga characters" is an actual rule.

No characters who aren't video games is an actual rule and is probably the only rule.

 

[Will]

Follow up to that statement you said, possible gets thrown around a lot more than probable. We really should be saying probable instead of possible tbh.

Probable is more likely to happen. Possible is just really any percentage.

Well you must have been inactive or something to think Cloud didn't shock and surprise the fandom at the time of his inclusion. You came off ignorant like he was foreseeable.

He still had a shot to be in regardless. I don't care about how people reacted, I care about how you compare a completely understandable inclusion is on the grand scale of ****ing Goku.

 

[Cosmic77]

Question, anyone think that since they changed Zelda's appearance to A Link between worlds, they actually have plans to add Hilda into the game? Thinking more about it, Hilda is an excellent character to add as an Echo.

Hilda might work as an Echo, but I don't think they should add her.

Contrary to popular belief, Echoes are not effortless clones that take 0 hours and 0 minutes to create. You still have to create a unique model with a few different visuals and animations. If Sakurai considered multiple characters as Echoes, there's a good chance he had to trim his selection down and toss aside a few extras. Not to offend her supporters or anything, but I really don't believe Hilda should be prioritized over others. Sakurai would be adding her for the sole purpose of having a Zelda Echo, not because she's iconic or popular among the community.

 

[Schnee117]

Classic Sonic would be such an awful addition.
And if stuff in Smash was based off of how "good" something was then Star Fox content wouldn't have been updated to look like Star Fox Zero and we wouldn't have had Other M content at all. But here we are.

also Shadow the Hedgehog isn't even that bad of a game lol

Are there even any rules to begin with? Sakurai does what he wants. It's his game. I think the only rules he has to follow (aside from legal stuff) would be the rules set by Nintendo

The only rule is video game characters only.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Hilda might work as an Echo, but I don't think they should add her.

Contrary to popular belief, Echoes are not effortless clones that take 0 hours and 0 minutes to create. You still have to create a unique model with a few different visuals and animations. If Sakurai considered multiple characters as Echoes, there's a good chance he had to trim his selection down and toss aside a few extras. Not to offend her supporters or anything, but I really don't believe Hilda should be prioritized over others. Sakurai would be adding her for the sole purpose of having a Zelda Echo, not because she's iconic or popular among the community.

But why are you willing to sacrifice the reason why Hilda would be in for her not being in at all?

 

[Deleted member]

wanna talk about wasted potential and the amount of "who gives a **** in the end"?

"Calling Dark Samus Wasted Potential."

You got some acorns on you kid!

I love Dark Samus in Smash!

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I've been thinking the same thing. If they don't make her an echo, they'll probably give Zelda an alternate costume, since it makes so much sense

Alternate costume wouldn't work, Zelda's current animations would be completely out of character for hilda. If they add her she'll be an echo

 

[ErenJager]

Pretty much every "rule" that was broken wasn't an actual rule as much as fan rule. The whole "no manga character" rule is an actual rule that has been confirmed and which hasn't ever been broken.

Well except for Lucario who debuted in an anime movie. People like to say he was designed for the games first, which likely isn't true since by this time Pokemom was a fulfledged multimedia franchise. They needed a specific pokemon with a specific look to fulfill a specific role.

They did this with Lugia in Pokemon 2000 he was designed for the movie. He wasnt even in the beta of gold and silver. He appeared as a pokeball pokemon in smash.

I know this is a massive contrast.

But like "no anime characters" is a rule today.
And then suddenly one day... It's not. Just like when he said he couldn't add villager or Ridley.

I wouldnt be surprised if one day Sakurai was just like "anime has made it's contributions tp video games too - so I felt like adding a guest as a nod of recognition to that."

To say this is impossible... Its closed minded.
To say its highly unlikely... Thats fair.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Hilda might work as an Echo, but I don't think they should add her.

Contrary to popular belief, Echoes are not effortless clones that take 0 hours and 0 minutes to create. You still have to create a unique model with a few different visuals and animations. If Sakurai considered multiple characters as Echoes, there's a good chance he had to trim his selection down and toss aside a few extras. Not to offend her supporters or anything, but I really don't believe Hilda should be prioritized over others. Sakurai would be adding her for the sole purpose of having a Zelda Echo, not because she's iconic or popular among the community.

to be fair though her model could literally just be a modified Zelda since they're near identical. You're not wrong about animations though, changing all of those animations to fit hilda's personality would be hella work for a character that isn't really popular, like, at all

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

To say this is impossible... Its closed minded.
To say its highly unlikely... Thats fair.

I'm pretty sure saying "This is impossible" is entirely realistic.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Well except for Lucario who debuted in an anime movie. People like to say he was designed for the games first, which likely isn't true since by this time Pokemom was a fulfledged multimedia franchise. They needed a specific pokemon with a specific look to fulfill a specific role.

They did this with Lugia in Pokemon 2000 he was designed for the movie. He wasnt even in the beta of gold and silver. He appeared as a pokeball pokemon in smash.

I know this is a massive contrast.

But like "no anime characters" is a rule today.
And then suddenly one day... It's not. Just like when he said he couldn't add villager or Ridley.

I wouldnt be surprised if one day Sakurai was just like "anime has made it's contributions tp video games too - so I felt like adding a guest as a nod of recognition to that."

To say this is impossible... Its closed minded.
To say its highly unlikely... Thats fair.

Lucario is a Nintendo character whereas Goku is not, which is the difference, since the whole manga rule was specifically in the context of third-party characters.

 

[Kuon]

"No manga characters" is an actual rule.

So the rule is no manga or anime characters, and only videogame characters. Is there any proof of this rule? Not that I don't believe you

 

[Majora's Visage]

Sorry to have sown discourse in the thread regarding Classic Sonic.. was just sharing an opinion I thought was possible.. Not that I would want him over any other Sonic rep.

 

[Cosmic77]

But why are you willing to sacrifice the reason why Hilda would be in for her not being in at all?

Because just like standard unique characters, Sakurai doesn't have the time and resources to add every single viable character who could work as an Echo.

If he wants to add Hilda, great. Her inclusion wouldn't offend me at all. I just don't want her to be prioritized over more popular characters like Dixie, Isabelle, and Shadow.

 

[Deleted member]

wanna talk about wasted potential and the amount of "who gives a **** in the end"?

People comparing a character from two games with the same proportions as an already existing fighter to promiment and popular characters in their series who only share sizes at best with already existing fighters is what's gonna make me lose my damn head on this speculation period.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

So the rule is no manga or anime characters, and only videogame characters. Is there any proof of this rule? Not that I don't believe you

Here it is.

 

[Will]

"Calling Dark Samus Wasted Potential."

You got some acorns on you kid!

I love Dark Samus in Smash!

I don't think you know what wasted potential means, man

People comparing a character from two games with the same proportions as an already existing fighter to promiment and popular characters in their series who only share sizes at best with already existing fighters is what's gonna make me lose my damn head on this speculation period.

Are you implying it's impossible to be unique with only two games just because you share the same name as someone you pretty much cloned yourself after?

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

So the rule is no manga or anime characters, and only videogame characters. Is there any proof of this rule? Not that I don't believe you

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

 

[WaxPython]

technically dark Samus isn't a she it's an it and Dark Samus is really just Metroid prime

 

[ErenJager]

"I don't want filthy anime characters tainting muh pure smash game"

 

[Cosmic77]

I think it's funny how people who are mad with Dark Samus's wasted potential can't seem to understand that she probably wouldn't be in Smash at all if it weren't for her cloney moveset.

Her representation isn't perfect, but hey, if you would rather keep her as an Assist Trophy...

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's funny how people who are mad with Dark Samus's wasted potential can't seem to understand that she probably wouldn't be in Smash at all if it weren't for her cloney moveset.

Her representation isn't perfect, but hey, if you would rather keep her as an Assist Trophy...

Most people seem to share that mindset. It's more of an "I wish she could've kept the tentacle move as a down smash, but it's not too bad because she wouldn't be in otherwise" from what I've seen.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

"I don't want filthy anime characters tainting muh pure smash game"

ultlucina:

We have enough anime characters as it is.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

"I don't want filthy anime characters tainting muh pure smash game"

I mean you're not wrong, I'd rather have video game characters in my video game crossover ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Because just like standard unique characters, Sakurai doesn't have the time and resources to add every single viable character who could work as an Echo.

If he wants to add Hilda, great. Her inclusion wouldn't offend me at all. I just don't want her to be prioritized over more popular characters like Dixie, Isabelle, and Shadow.

That's such a noble way of thinking and I have nothing but respect for it.

"I don't want filthy anime characters tainting muh pure smash game"

http://www.mcleodgaming.com/viewflash.php?id=6&type=game
I'll say it once and I'll say it again. Outside of Smash modding and this game, Goku or anyone that didn't appear in a video game first (with some exceptions) will not make it in. Please use the available resource to satisfy this need.

 

[WaxPython]

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

This is all he said on the matter

'Besides that, it might be something like a courtesy to include a character who has the experience of being on a Nintendo platform.'

Besides that, it might be something like a courtesy to include a character who has the experience of being on a Nintendo platform.

That doesn't deconfirm Goku he's appeared over 40 times in Nintendo games

 

[TMNTSSB4]

https://youtu.be/hK9Ie3Fp7yg

I hope MGS4s main theme returns from Brawl always a neat track. Although I guess the love theme would require another 'action' version remix for it to fit with Nintendo's tone.

Either way I really hope MGS gets some more love in smash considering they're going all out with castlevania.

Snake Codecs are definitely returning and we already know there’ll atleast be one remixed song in Ultimate, so he’ll be getting some good love (only real thing that shows a lack of love is his lack of ***)

A bit of a dumb question but one I've been mulling over do to all the fan hype.

What does Shadow mean to the Sonic franchise?

I'm serious.

I’d say Shadow represents the 3D Sonic games more than everyone outside the core characters (Sanic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman), as well as their edgier side (well...the good parts of the edge and not 06), being a factor in the first 3D Sonic game from Sega/Sonic Team USA, and being the 2nd most popular character in the entire canon...but mostly for the edge

He's like Vegeta to Goku. You can't really imagine one without the other.

tbf...you can, but it’s better to have both than just one

I think it's funny how people who are mad with Dark Samus's wasted potential can't seem to understand that she probably wouldn't be in Smash at all if it weren't for her cloney moveset.

Her representation isn't perfect, but hey, if you would rather keep her as an Assist Trophy...

Inb4 people start preferring her as an Assist Trophy and decide to ***** about how she/it isn’t playable

 

[Deleted member]

ultlucina:

We have enough anime characters as it is.

Anime has been in Smash since the beginning.

 

[Will]

technically dark Samus isn't a she it's an it and Dark Samus is really just Metroid prime

The game itself refers to Dark Samus as a she and its lore says that the Space Pirates praise Dark Samus as a goddess. Metroid Prime probably didn't have a sex, but it copied Samus' DNA, which probably copied all the icky female stuff as well.