Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

Really. You're telling me we would be having this converstion, and you would be taken seriously, if she wasn't in Odyssey? It's the only reason she's slightly likely. And I would argue that Pauline is equally as iconic as Dixie Kong (Not that iconic). But she probably isn't fighting that battle. And I think [Captian] Toad is far more likely

I have rosters on this website with Pauline that predate the Nintendo Switch even being revealed. So, yes. Seriously. If you read the conversation we were having you would already be aware of this. Incredulity is not an excuse.

If I wanted people to take me seriously I would just cater to whatever the most popular characters are. I don't come to a Super Smash Bros forum to get my proposals validated. I don't the least bit value your opinion.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

The majority of the DK Series content in Smash is referring to Donkey Kong Country. The only exception is the stage 75m. Every other DK stage is from Country. DK has his design from Country and Diddy is playable. If I'm not mistaken, all the DK trophies are from Country.

Having all the elements from country, and then Pauline just kinda thrown in there would be weird. She, especially her modern incarnation is, designed for the Mario aesthetic, not the modern Donkey Kong aesthetic, which are very different things. The varying aesthetics are sort of the reason that Mario, Yoshi, DK, and Wario are treated as different series in Smash. The main characters can look fine together in one game, but each series has their own unique style that's different from the others.

If Pauline was made playable in Smash (which I don't really think she should, but that's irrelevant right), she'd definitely be a Mario series character, not a Donkey Kong one.

If I wanted people to take me seriously I would just cater to whatever the most popular characters are. I don't come to a Super Smash Bros forum to get my proposals validated. I don't the least bit value your opinion.

Lol then why'd you come here

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If I'm not mistaken, all the DK trophies are from Country.

Except Pauline.

Having all the elements from country, and then Pauline just kinda thrown in there would be weird.

Understandable.

The varying aesthetics are sort of the reason that Mario, Yoshi, DK, and Wario are treated as different series in Smash

That's not the reason. It's because they star in a series of their own games.

If Pauline was made playable in Smash (which I don't really think she should, but that's irrelevant right), she'd definitely be a Mario series character, not a Donkey Kong one.

List of Donkey Kong games featuring Pauline:

• Donkey Kong
• Donkey Kong (Game & Watch)
• Donkey Kong (Gameboy)
• Mario VS. Donkey Kong 2: March of The Minis
• Mario VS. Donkey Kong: Minis March Again
• Mario VS. Donkey Kong: Mini-Land Mayhem
• Mario VS. Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars

List of Mario games featuring Pauline:

• Super Mario Odyssey

And yes, the "Mario VS Donkey Kong" games would be considered Donkey Kong because it is part of the same series as "Donkey Kong" on Gameboy.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

The majority of the DK Series content in Smash is referring to Donkey Kong Country. The only exception is the stage 75m. Every other DK stage is from Country. DK has his design from Country and Diddy is playable. If I'm not mistaken, all the DK trophies are from Country.

Having all the elements from country, and then Pauline just kinda thrown in there would be weird. She, especially her modern incarnation is, designed for the Mario aesthetic, not the modern Donkey Kong aesthetic, which are very different things. The varying aesthetics are sort of the reason that Mario, Yoshi, DK, and Wario are treated as different series in Smash. The main characters can look fine together in one game, but each series has their own unique style that's different from the others.

If Pauline was made playable in Smash (which I don't really think she should, but that's irrelevant right), she'd definitely be a Mario series character, not a Donkey Kong one.


Lol then why'd you come here

In all fairness, the Spring and Hammer items represent the Donkey Kong series, referencing the original arcade game.

Stanley the Bugman and Donkey Kong Jr. also had trophies in Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

The majority of the DK Series content in Smash is referring to Donkey Kong Country. The only exception is the stage 75m. Every other DK stage is from Country. DK has his design from Country and Diddy is playable. If I'm not mistaken, all the DK trophies are from Country.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSB4_trophies_(Donkey_Kong_series)

The Hammer (and Hammerhead), the Spring, and Pauline herself are all listed as DK trophies.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Pauline's ambiguity of the two franchises is one of the reasons I see her unlikely. Not the only reason, but a reason nonetheless.

 

[IronTed]

The majority of the DK Series content in Smash is referring to Donkey Kong Country. The only exception is the stage 75m. Every other DK stage is from Country. DK has his design from Country and Diddy is playable. If I'm not mistaken, all the DK trophies are from Country.

Having all the elements from country, and then Pauline just kinda thrown in there would be weird. She, especially her modern incarnation is, designed for the Mario aesthetic, not the modern Donkey Kong aesthetic, which are very different things. The varying aesthetics are sort of the reason that Mario, Yoshi, DK, and Wario are treated as different series in Smash. The main characters can look fine together in one game, but each series has their own unique style that's different from the others.

If Pauline was made playable in Smash (which I don't really think she should, but that's irrelevant right), she'd definitely be a Mario series character, not a Donkey Kong one.


Lol then why'd you come here

Agreed. At this point, from a relevancy standpoint, Pauline is more of a Mario character than a Donkey Kong character. Iconic as DK may be, Odyssey is what defines Mario right now, not a game from over 30 years ago.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Agreed. At this point, from a relevancy standpoint, Pauline is more of a Mario character than a Donkey Kong character. Iconic as DK may be, Odyssey is what defines Mario right now, not a game from over 30 years ago.

Yeah. I mean who remembers a video game from over 30 years ago?

Pauline appeared in a Mario game a couple months ago in a level highly referencing Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Country so she's basically a Mario character.

I give up.

 

[IronTed]

Yeah. I mean who remembers a video game from over 30 years ago?

Pauline appeared in a Mario game a couple months ago in a level highly referencing Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Country so she's basically a Mario character.

I give up.

That is not at all what I suggested.

Odyssey has far more mindshare among the people than Donkey Kong does, that is not at all a controversial view. Yes, it referenced DK, but DK itself is associated with Mario anyway.

Edit: DK= game Donkey Kong, for clarification's sake.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, Pauline feels unnecessary to add. I would rather have Waluigi over Pauline by a long shot, and yet Waluigi can be considered unnecessary to add. She barely appeared in any games and was barely known in the original Donkey Kong, as Opossum said.

Pauline is nowhere near as well known a name as Peach is. Hell, Pauline wasn't even named Pauline in the original DK, but "Lady." So yeah, it's pretty daring to say Pauline is well known to those who've played Donkey Kong.

 

[Opossum]

Honestly, Pauline feels unnecessary to add. I would rather have Waluigi over Pauline by a long shot, and yet Waluigi can be considered unnecessary to add. She barely appeared in any games and was barely known in the original Donkey Kong, as Opossum said.

Please quit constantly tagging me, especially if you're just going to put words in my mouth.

 

[Deleted member]

Well an argument can be brought up with Pauline that she appeared in Mario Odyssey, but she still is a bad choice for a Mario character in Smash for Switch.

Please quit constantly tagging me, especially if you're just going to put words in my mouth.

My apologies, I added the quote into my post. Please forgive me for my actions.

 

[IronTed]

Agreed. At this point, from a relevancy standpoint, Pauline is more of a Mario character than a Donkey Kong character. Iconic as DK may be, Odyssey is what defines Mario right now, not a game from over 30 years ago.

To clarify my initial statement, Odyssey certainly boosts Pauline's association with Mario over DK, especially at face value (also, has Pauline ever been in a game without Mario?). But like Yoshi, Wario, etc, there is a line that she sits on between the two IP's, and you can't deny association with either. I simply contend that as of now the association with Mario has been strengthened.

Not that it matters, this won't be what gets her in, or keeps her out of the next Smash.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I also think the next major console Zelda is gonna draw heavily from BOTW's engine if not the reusing the full map but slightly altered.

I think so too, with the question being what twist they put on it.

I'm thinking they apply the new world style to one of the old game's themes

Link Between Worlds/Twilight Princess Dual World
Wind Waker Open Ocean
Majora's Mask multiple races/play-styles
(also) Majora's Mask indepth NPC stories
Spirit Tracks... err... Red Dead Redemption BOTW edition?

 

[Luminario]

I still say Pauline would likely be grouped in with the Mario characters if she appears in Smash, but with a unique victory theme that comes from the original Donkey Kong arcade to reference her ties with both characters.

While I don't see her as being particularly likely, it would make sense to add Pauline into Smash this time around. Her reappearance after all these years gained noticeably positive reactions, and while she wasn't exactly a major part of Odyssey she does appear in multiple renders for the game and is the person who sings the theme song. Her part in Nintendo's history, being from THE Nintendo arcade game Donkey Kong, probably makes up for the fact she's not as important in Odyssey as Rosalina or Jr were in their notable games.

That said, Dixie and especially K. Rool have the edge over her specifically because they have more moveset potential. Sure, as you mentioned, you could have her moves draw from the arcade games and the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series, though that's not really as obvious as, say, Dixie's hair or K. Rool's weapons.

To be fair, if Smash has shown anything it's that an unlikely not-obvious moveset can be very unique.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

To be fair, if Smash has shown anything it's that an unlikely not-obvious moveset can be very unique.

I was extremely anti Pac-Man and Villager prior to Smash 4 because I was closed minded about their ability to fight.

Even Sakurai didn't think Villager or Miis would work as fighters when he was developing Brawl. Views change all the time.

I think Smash fans rely on patterns like ****ing oxygen tanks when it comes to speculation regarding literally anything, but the rules are always changing.

Corrin was actually the first character to become fully unique despite sharing both his abilities and physique with another character from his series. In other cases, characters like that have become clones.

 

[Cosmic77]

If Pauline gets into Smash over other Mario characters, it'll be almost entirely because of her association with Odyssey and its huge success. The chances of another Mario character are iffy, but I find it more likely for Sakurai to push in an Odyssey-inspired Pauline over any of the recurring characters who realistically should have been added long before Rosalina.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

To clarify my initial statement, Odyssey certainly boosts Pauline's association with Mario over DK, especially at face value (also, has Pauline ever been in a game without Mario?). But like Yoshi, Wario, etc, there is a line that she sits on between the two IP's, and you can't deny association with either. I simply contend that as of now the association with Mario has been strengthened.

Not that it matters, this won't be what gets her in, or keeps her out of the next Smash.

A character should be looked at based on their own merits and not what emblem they should use imo.

I just get tired when people are like "Well, we need a certain amount of characters for this emblem so we're gonna shoe horn in a nobody like Magikoopa and disguise it as a Yoshi character. Or we're gonna add Sylux because we GOTTA have another Metroid character."

I always wondered why Kamek never got an original design or maybe Sakurai could make his own original design for her.

Then I found out Magikoopa is called Kamek in Japan. So literally Kamek in Yoshi's Story is just a Magikoopa. Not exactly an ideal contender in my book.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't think Pauline is likely, like at all, but if she did get in I feel she'd be put in under the DK series because of how synonymous she is with the series. She first appeared in DK, She only appeared in games with DK up until Odyssey (and even then DK was still there), all of her trophies have had the DK label, and even the level she appeared in with Odyssey had HEAVY DK references. I mean just because she's the most popular she's ever been because of Odyssey doesn't mean they're going to ignore her legacy and where she originated.

Edit: literally Pauline has never appeared in a game without both Mario AND DK present so sit could really go either way. Though I'd prefer them reference DK because of the legacy she has with the first game.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Texhnidally, did Yoshi actually deserve his own separate franchise? Wario I understand. But Yoshi, not really.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Texhnidally, did Yoshi actually deserve his own separate franchise? Wario I understand. But Yoshi, not really.

Honestly, if it weren't for Yoshi's Story I don't think he would have. But here we are with a franchise that's most likely doomed to one character for ever.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't think Pauline is likely, like at all, but if she did get in I feel she'd be put in under the DK series because of how synonymous she is with the series. She first appeared in DK, She only appeared in games with DK up until Odyssey (and even then DK was still there), all of her trophies have had the DK label, and even the level she appeared in with Odyssey had HEAVY DK references. I mean just because she's the most popular she's ever been because of Odyssey doesn't mean they're going to ignore her legacy and where she originated.

Edit: literally Pauline has never appeared in a game without both Mario AND DK present so sit could really go either way. Though I'd prefer them reference DK because of the legacy she has with the first game.

Despite the name, Donkey Kong (arcade game) is not tied down to one franchise, as Nintendo considers the game to mark the beginning of both the Super Mario and Donkey Kong franchises. Since Pauline has never appeared in a game without Mario (or Mini Mario) as the protagonist, and since she's been heavily promoted in Odyssey, I think the Mario franchise has more going for her than DK.

When I think of DK characters, I usually think of the DKC cast. For me personally, I'd prefer Pauline to be grouped with the Mario cast. I feel like she'd stick out less if she was grouped with Mario and Luigi as opposed to DK and Diddy Kong.

 

[IronTed]

Texhnidally, did Yoshi actually deserve his own separate franchise? Wario I understand. But Yoshi, not really.

Yoshi had both Yoshi's Island (1995) and Yoshi's Story (1997) released before Smash, so he had at least a bit of sepearation from Mario on multiple occasions. Of course it doesn't help that his franchise heavily borrows from Mario in the first place, unlike Wario's.

 

[NintenRob]

While Yoshi doesn't really need a second two. Kamek has done a fair bit that I think his inclusion would be justified. And just because he shares a name with his species doesn't change that, just look at Yoshi himself.

Kamek has appeared as a villain in multiple Mario and Yoshi games, and often plays a more important role than most as well, especially in the Mario & Luigi games.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

A character should be looked at based on their own merits and not what emblem they should use imo.

I just get tired when people are like "Well, we need a certain amount of characters for this emblem so we're gonna shoe horn in a nobody like Magikoopa and disguise it as a Yoshi character. Or we're gonna add Sylux because we GOTTA have another Metroid character."

I always wondered why Kamek never got an original design or maybe Sakurai could make his own original design for her.

Then I found out Magikoopa is called Kamek in Japan. So literally Kamek in Yoshi's Story is just a Magikoopa. Not exactly an ideal contender in my book.

People say this but then they forget that (possibly) are already in Smash. And those same people are rooting for Toad to make it in the next game. Hell, were able to make it in without any names whatsoever.

Those were able to make it in despite being species without having any super-notable members (Yoshi is the odd one out but even then he looks exactly like his brethren), what makes Kamek different?

 

[IronTed]

Despite the name, Donkey Kong (arcade game) is not tied down to one franchise, as Nintendo considers the game to mark the beginning of both the Super Mario and Donkey Kong franchises. Since Pauline has never appeared in a game without Mario (or Mini Mario) as the protagonist, and since she's been heavily promoted in Odyssey, I think the Mario franchise has more going for her than DK.

When I think of DK characters, I usually think of the DKC cast. For me personally, I'd prefer Pauline to be grouped with the Mario cast. I feel like she'd stick out less if she was grouped with Mario and Luigi as opposed to DK and Diddy Kong.

I'm curious, where did Nintendo say they consider Donkey Kong the beginning of both Mario and DKC? I mean I definitely agree with that sentiment, but I haven't seen anything concrete on that issue.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm curious, where did Nintendo say they consider Donkey Kong the beginning of both Mario and DKC? I mean I definitely agree with that sentiment, but I haven't seen anything concrete on that issue.

I'm not sure where you can find it, but I remember the statement explaining that the Super Mario "franchise" began with Donkey Kong and Mario Bros., while the Super Mario "series" began with Super Mario Bros.

It's a little confusing, but I guess it makes sense.

 

[Deleted member]

Texhnidally, did Yoshi actually deserve his own separate franchise? Wario I understand. But Yoshi, not really.

He kind of does. IronTed brought up a good point on Yoshi's separation.

Yoshi had both Yoshi's Island (1995) and Yoshi's Story (1997) released before Smash, so he had at least a bit of sepearation from Mario on multiple occasions. Of course it doesn't help that his franchise heavily borrows from Mario in the first place, unlike Wario's.

Completely agree with this. Yoshi was popular because of Mario ( Same with DK I guess ). Yoshi's prime games have been Mario games usually, but the Yoshi games still get success. I do not see the separation happening though.

 

[Krysco]

What exactly does it matter what franchise Pauline gets associated with if she gets into Smash? No matter what, I feel she would at least need her own victory jingle since the one most Mario characters use is the SMB1 beating a level theme and Pauline has never appeared in a SMB game and the DK one is the beating a level theme from DKC which she also hasn't appeared in. First thought that comes to mind would be a remix of the theme that plays when the game shows you what level you're on (25m, 50m, 75m, 100m)

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

What exactly does it matter what franchise Pauline gets associated with if she gets into Smash? No matter what, I feel she would at least need her own victory jingle since the one most Mario characters use is the SMB1 beating a level theme and Pauline has never appeared in a SMB game and the DK one is the beating a level theme from DKC which she also hasn't appeared in. First thought that comes to mind would be a remix of the theme that plays when the game shows you what level you're on (25m, 50m, 75m, 100m)

I wouldn't care what series she's represented under. I wouldn't care about what victory theme she has either, after all Rosalina, Bowser, and Bowser Jr. all have their own jingles.

That said, I don't want Pauline in the next Smash; imo there are way other more deserving characters from both Mario and Donkey Kong. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I'm gonna be pissed if she gets in over (Captain) Toad or Paper Mario.

 

[Krysco]

I wouldn't care what series she's represented under. I wouldn't care about what victory theme she has either, after all Rosalina, Bowser, and Bowser Jr. all have their own jingles.

That said, I don't want Pauline in the next Smash; imo there are way other more deserving characters from both Mario and Donkey Kong. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I'm gonna be pissed if she gets in over (Captain) Toad or Paper Mario.

I don't care too much either, I'd rather see the likes of K. Rool and Waluigi or Paper Mario over Pauline. I just find the whole back and forth going on about what franchise she'd be under to be rather pointless. I wouldn't go as far as to be pissed if she got in, it'd be more so 'oh, well that's disappointing. Hopefully she's fun to make up for it.'

 

[Lukingordex]

Honestly i think Pauline should be grouped in the Mario Bros. series just because her big revival happened in Odyssey (unless you count her random appearance in that streetpass mii plaza frame featuring the woman of nintendo or something like that)

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I wouldn't care what series she's represented under. I wouldn't care about what victory theme she has either, after all Rosalina, Bowser, and Bowser Jr. all have their own jingles.

That said, I don't want Pauline in the next Smash; imo there are way other more deserving characters from both Mario and Donkey Kong. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I'm gonna be pissed if she gets in over (Captain) Toad or Paper Mario.

What is this "over" ****? Why does everything have to be a dumb contest about who gets in before whom? It's so pointless. Let's actually talk about the characters and their merits.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What is this "over" ****? Why does everything have to be a dumb contest about who gets in before whom? It's so pointless. Let's actually talk about the characters and their merits.

The reality is, many people have priorities for character choices. And that's fine. We're all biased.

Honestly, it's not a big deal. It's just what it is. You don't like to put priorities when it comes to characters. And that's fine too. Neither are honest issues, nor worth fighting over. So let's just drop it and move on, please?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Throwing all likelihood out the window, you know who I'd want from Konami?

Frogger.

I've echoed that thought for years.

Well.. I actually think Frogger makes a lot of sense, contrary to "all likeliness out the window."
He is hugely recognizable as a game character. That in itself, at this level, is massive.

But I still would prefer a pioneer from Oregon Trail.
"Pioneer gave Mario dysentery." It's a delayed effect move that auto K.O's five minutes later.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

How about Number Muncher? You have to solve math problems to perform stronger attacks.

 

[Curious Villager]

Being honest, I feel like Pauline is being treated more as that one disappointing child neither parents care about and insist that she got most of her genes from either her mother's or father's side just to reduce as much association with themselved in here sometimes.....

Whatever emblem she would get, I agree that she at the very least needs her own victory theme.

 

[NintenRob]

If ten smash characters had to be cut, who do think are most likely to be cut?

3 clones
3 miis (3in1movesets to make, heavily tied to customisation, shoddy future on Switch)
Cloud (third party)
Corrin (big backlash, comes from series with )
Bowser Jr (almost didn't make it, already a lot of Mario characters)
Lucas or Roy again?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If ten smash characters had to be cut, who do think are most likely to be cut?
3 clones

Cuts are usually a result of time constraints. So cutting clones would contradict that.

Wii Fit Trainer is the most likely to get cut in my opinion as a result of the Wii brand as well as her series most likely being discontinued forever.

I seriously doubt there's ever gonna be a Switch fit.

 

[NintenRob]

Cuts are usually a result of time constraints. So cutting clones would contradict that. Wii Fit Trainer is the most likely to get cut in my opinion as a result of the Wii brand as well as her series most likely being discontinued forever.

Then explain why Pichu, Dr. Mario, Roy, Young Link, Lucas and Wolf were cut.