Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Krysco]

I'm not against the idea of a port but I would much prefer a new Smash game, even if that means no Wolf. I'm just not a big fan of Sm4sh and the changes it made. The 'can't grab again after x amount of frames', the lack of sliding off of platforms if your shield is hit near the edge, the removal of most advanced tech, shield health regeneration is still too good, the massive amount of nerfs to edgeguarding with edgehogging gone, so many meteors being weaker, still hard to land and Zelda is the only character with a constant meteor hitbox on hers, air dodges are still way too good (though the lag of landing with one isn't bad), too many moves send at an upwards angle or are so weak that most of the cast can get back anyways, heck, dairs overall are terrible in Sm4sh since meteors can be teched on stage (I feel all meteors should get the Falco dair treatment where they send upwards on grounded opponents). From a more casual standpoint, I prefer the items Brawl had and the stages for that matter too.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I'd prefer a new game altogether.

I guess I'm just kinda picky on ports. Unless there's tons of new content (say, a few newcomers, not just cut veterans, and even more than just that depending on who the newcomers are and how many there are) or the online activity in the original starts really going down, I probably wouldn't invest money in a port with a only a few additions when the original game doesn't feel terribly old to me. I have similar thoughts about MK8 and MK8 Deluxe........but then again, I haven't gotten to play the original game very much at all.

 

[Cooldood]

I'm currently reading this whole thread from the beginning, can anyone point out where the release date is speculated? My 3ds broke and i'm currently smashless

 

[Cyn]

I'm currently reading this whole thread from the beginning, can anyone point out where the release date is speculated? My 3ds broke and i'm currently smashless

It is purely speculation at this point. There has been no official Smash for Switch announced at this point in time.

 

[Doubleslasher]

I'm currently reading this whole thread from the beginning, can anyone point out where the release date is speculated? My 3ds broke and i'm currently smashless

I think most people agreed a port late 2018 or 2019 and new game 2020-2021

 

[Cooldood]

I think most people agreed a port late 2018 or 2019 and new game 2020-2021

Really? I would've assumed since Mario Kart 8 did really well Nintendo would try to push out smash faster. Oh well, only time will tell.

 

[N3ON]

Really? I would've assumed since Mario Kart 8 did really well Nintendo would try to push out smash faster. Oh well, only time will tell.

It's possible, if they tie this game to the impending full online service, it was originally intended to release, like the service, much earlier.

 

[Deleted member]

Really? I would've assumed since Mario Kart 8 did really well Nintendo would try to push out smash faster. Oh well, only time will tell.

It all depends on how it works with Sakurai or the other developers. Sakurai is working on another game, but his team could have something up their sleeve. It is probably the most confusing to anticipate a release date, but somewhere around 2018-2021 seems plausible ( especially 2018-2019 ). Either way, welcome to Smash for Switch Speculation thread!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Port or not, they are gonna spend a lot of wasted resources if they DON'T take much of the engine and character data from Smash 4 Wii U. So that's why I think it's likely this next Smash 4 Switch is essentially gonna be Smash 4 Wii U 1.5 or 2.0 or 2.5 or whatever the damn. Look how similar the models are of characters in Brawl and Smash Wii U for example. I think engine-wise, this new Smash is gonna be VERY similar to Smash 4, and I think it's for the best if they did.

 

[Cosmic77]

All you have to do is consider all the people who didn't own Smash 4 Wii U, those who will double dip if new characters are added, look at MK8D's numbers, realize a proper Smash 5 is very possibly a long ways off, see all the other 2014 ports coming out this year, and accept how much sense this port makes to the business behind it, not the limited slice of gamers who already owned the original.

If Nintendo started working on a new Smash game right now, it could be released in about two years. If Nintendo releases a port sometime this year, a new Smash game might not come out until the end of the Switch's lifespan (Or maybe not even until the release of the next console).

I have no doubt that a Smash port would sell really well, but I know that a brand new game would sell way better than a port, especially since Smash 4 already has two versions. Releasing a port now would mean that Nintendo would have to do one of two things: (1) Wait till the later part of the Switch's lifespan (when sales will start dropping) and make a Smash game that feels and plays different from the port, or (2) release a new Smash game as soon as possible and hope that sales won't be effected by releasing it so close to the port. Personally, I'd be using long term thinking on this. Nintendo needs momentum to keep the Switch popular, and a new Smash game in 2019/2020 after a long drought of nothing Smash-related would certainly do just that.



Someone mentioned the possibility of Smash being handled like Splatoon 2. I don't have a problem with that. Reusing the same models and mechanics while possibly making small changes along the way is a huge time saver. No sense in completely starting from the ground up when you can just reuse old material and make it look and feel like something different.

 

[IronTed]

There is no way Nintendo waits until 2020 to release a new Smash game. Barring the original, Smash tends to come out by year 2. Nintendo always releases its evergreen titles in the first half a platform's life. Yes, the 3DS version is the outlier (but that's due to the sizable difference of when 3DS and Wii U launched). Considering Mario Kart 8 Deluxe exists, Nintendo evidently doesn't want to wait too long to release those key titles again.

 

[Cosmic77]

There is no way Nintendo waits until 2020 to release a new Smash game. Barring the original, Smash tends to come out by year 2. Nintendo always releases its evergreen titles in the first half a platform's life. Yes, the 3DS version is the outlier (but that's due to the sizable difference of when 3DS and Wii U launched). Considering Mario Kart 8 Deluxe exists, Nintendo evidently doesn't want to wait too long to release those key titles again.

Assuming production on the next Smash hasn't already started, a 2020 release could actually happen. Smash 4 was originally going to be exclusive to the 3DS, and production didn't officially start until after Sakurai was done with Uprising in the spring of 2012. If Nintendo seemed fine with the possibility of waiting over three years since the launch of the 3DS before getting a new Smash game, I don't see why the Switch would be different.

 

[IronTed]

Assuming production on the next Smash hasn't already started, a 2020 release could actually happen. Smash 4 was originally going to be exclusive to the 3DS, and production didn't officially start until after Sakurai was done with Uprising in the spring of 2012. If Nintendo seemed fine with the possibility of waiting over three years since the launch of the 3DS before getting a new Smash game, I don't see why the Switch would be different.

It's different in the sense Nintendo has been pushing to get its big hitters out as soon as possible, something they severely struggled with the 3DS and Wii U (and led to the unnatural, underwhelming lifespan of the former). When you look at every Nintendo console post-GC, very rarely will Nintendo release a big, evergreen title in the second half of the console's life.

This, of course, assumes the Switch's successor releases before 2023. If the Switch does live that long, then my point becomes irrelevant.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

This, of course, assumes the Switch's successor releases before 2023. If the Switch does live that long, then my point becomes irrelevant.

Thought I should point out that I read somewhere Nintendo is trying to make the Switch have a longer lifespan than six-seven years, so that could very well be the case.

 

[Doubleslasher]

Thought I should point out that I read somewhere Nintendo is trying to make the Switch have a longer lifespan than six-seven years, so that could very well be the case.

Source? Sounds believable, considering the success of the Switch, but still: Source?

 

[A Distant Demon]

Source? Sounds believable, considering the success of the Switch, but still: Source?

Original source
https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXMZO26430020R00C18A2TJ2000/
Lnik that isnt Japanese
https://nintendosoup.com/nintendo-wants-extend-switchs-lifespan-6-years/

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yeah, it's enhanced. Basically, they'd have no actual new content, period. Or no new features. Just a straight port. Technically speaking, a fusion of two games is enhanced in a manner of speaking, but the lack of completely new content makes it slightly dubious.

Even weak amounts of content still counts as enhanced if it's new.

To further explain the story, the Nintendo Switch version of Hyrule Warriors will contain all the contents from the Wii U and 3DS versions, which includes the Wii U exclusive Challenge Mode, and the 3DS exclusive story scenarios and Adventure Mode maps.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm certain Nintendo is working on a Smash game in some capacity but besides a few project codes we've not got anything concrete to go off. As such, Smash is my "pleasant surprise" pick for E3 this year.

Speaking of, we're in an odd spot as E3's with Nintendo usually swap back and forth between looking for Zelda and Looking for Mario but we just had one of each. Massive ones even. I'm not sure what series Nintendo has that can hugely excite outside of the games show/teased last year like Yoshi Switch or Metroid Prime 4

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Read the spoilers. I'm not gonna reply to something I've already explained once. Just saying.

Just posting this as my prediction regarding a sequel where characters are ported, leaving more time for newcomers.

Veterans

1. Ice Climbers
2. Pichu
3. Wolf

Newcomers (Primary)

1. Inkling
2. Spring Man
3. Ribbon Girl
4. Rhythm Heaven Troupe
   
5. Balloon Fighter
6. Rex & Pyra
7. Pauline
8. Pokemon Switch Character
9. Fire Emblem Switch Character
10. Pikmin Switch Character

Newcomers (Secondary): These are characters I wouldn't normally consider likely, but I think could have a chance if the veterans are ported, leaving more time for newcomers than usual.

1. Paper Mario
2. Elma
3. Decidueye
4. Alm & Celicia
5. Dixie Kong
6. Toon Zelda
7. Skull Kid
8. Samurai Goroh
9. Shadow The Hedgehog
10. Terra Bradford

Spoiler: Pauline

Pauline is a much more historically significant Nintendo character than any DKC character. Donkey Kong Country has all the characters remotely necessary and anyone else would just be generous.

The series emblem is incidental so let's not pit characters against each other based on that. Pauline has her own merits.

And no, Super Mario Odyssey has nothing to do with me including her. She's been in my rosters for years.

Pauline's potential includes hammer, spring, parasol, purse, jazz, music, Mini Mario toys, other hazards from Donkey Kong games.

Spoiler: Balloon Fighter

Neutral Special: Balloon Pump - Balloon Figher has three balloons that make him the supreme aerial fighter. After taking significant damage, a balloon will pop. So he needs his balloon pump to make more.

If he already has three balloons, the next balloon he pumps will pop, making it an attack.

Side Special: Flipper - This will propel Balloon Fighter forward. The flipper will be left behind similar to Sonic's spring, and will damage anyone who touches it.

Up Special: Inflate - Balloon Fighter's Balloons will inflate and explode, giving him one last chance for recovery. After that, Balloon Fighter will float to the ground via parachute.

Spoiler: Skull Kid

I added Skull Kid as a possibility should a Zelda newcomer be considered necessary. He's an iconic villain in the series and the idea of Majora's Mask being playable makes him a valid candidate in my mind.

 

[Lukingordex]

Pichu

Could you give your reasoning for Pichu?

 

[Opossum]

Read the spoilers. I'm not gonna reply to something I've already explained once. Just saying.

Just posting this as my prediction regarding a sequel where characters are ported, leaving more time for newcomers.

Veterans

1. Ice Climbers
2. Pichu
3. Wolf

Newcomers (Primary)

1. Inkling
2. Spring Man
3. Ribbon Girl
4. Rhythm Heaven Troupe
   
5. Balloon Fighter
6. Rex & Pyra
7. Pauline
8. Pokemon Switch Character
9. Fire Emblem Switch Character
10. Pikmin Switch Character

Newcomers (Secondary): These are characters I wouldn't normally consider likely, but I think could have a chance if the veterans are ported, leaving more time for newcomers than usual.

1. Paper Mario
2. Elma
3. Decidueye
4. Alm & Celicia
5. Dixie Kong
6. Toon Zelda
7. Skull Kid
8. Samurai Goroh
9. Shadow The Hedgehog
10. Terra Bradford

Spoiler: Pauline

Pauline is a much more historically significant Nintendo character than any DKC character. Donkey Kong Country has all the characters remotely necessary and anyone else would just be generous.

The series emblem is incidental so let's not pit characters against each other based on that. Pauline has her own merits.

And no, Super Mario Odyssey has nothing to do with me including her. She's been in my rosters for years.

Pauline's potential includes hammer, spring, parasol, purse, jazz, music, Mini Mario toys, other hazards from Donkey Kong games.

Spoiler: Balloon Fighter

Neutral Special: Balloon Pump - Balloon Figher has three balloons that make him the supreme aerial fighter. After taking significant damage, a balloon will pop. So he needs his balloon pump to make more.

If he already has three balloons, the next balloon he pumps will pop, making it an attack.

Side Special: Flipper - This will propel Balloon Fighter forward. The flipper will be left behind similar to Sonic's spring, and will damage anyone who touches it.

Up Special: Inflate - Balloon Fighter's Balloons will inflate and explode, giving him one last chance for recovery. After that, Balloon Fighter will float to the ground via parachute.

Spoiler: Skull Kid

I added Skull Kid as a possibility should a Zelda newcomer be considered necessary. He's an iconic villain in the series and the idea of Majora's Mask being playable makes him a valid candidate in my mind.

Honestly I'm more curious as to how you envision Alm and Celica effectively sharing a spot. It's kinda confusing me.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Assuming production on the next Smash hasn't already started, a 2020 release could actually happen. Smash 4 was originally going to be exclusive to the 3DS, and production didn't officially start until after Sakurai was done with Uprising in the spring of 2012. If Nintendo seemed fine with the possibility of waiting over three years since the launch of the 3DS before getting a new Smash game, I don't see why the Switch would be different.

Well but Smash 4 3DS is the debut of Smash on handheld systems. Smash Wii U is definitely more preferred by the more hardcore base. Everyone with a Wii U had the game basically.

Also the example of Splatoon 2 is perfect. I expect quite the same thing for Smash Bros. honestly.

Edit: I also think the next major console Zelda is gonna draw heavily from BOTW's engine if not the reusing the full map but slightly altered.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Could you give your reasoning for Pichu?

A popular alternate form of the company's mascot and a requested return. No real downside to adding him in a port. He's not hated by Pokemon fans. Just pissy Smash fans.

Personally I'd love to see Raichu more than anything though.

 

[IronTed]

Thought I should point out that I read somewhere Nintendo is trying to make the Switch have a longer lifespan than six-seven years, so that could very well be the case.

I was aware of the interview, but I didn't realize they were specific with the number of years.

So yeah, than 2020 is very plausible now, my argument is irrelevant now.

 

[Cosmic77]

Pauline is a much more historically significant Nintendo character than any DKC character.

Debatable.

Pauline remained a generic damsel in distress who no one was familiar with for nearly two decades before getting regular appearances in the Mario vs Donkey Kong spinoff series. She may have debuted in a historic game, but not many people knew who she was or if she even had a name. Calling her "historically significant" is a little generous. Before Odyssey, I would have argued that K. Rool, Cranky, Dixie, and Funky all had more historical significance than Pauline.

Don't get me wrong, I actually want Pauline too. I wasn't an avid supporter of hers until Odyssey, but I still think she's a worthy candidate to consider nonetheless.

Donkey Kong Country has all the characters remotely necessary and anyone else would just be generous.

Again, debatable.

Not saying a DK rep is guaranteed to happen, but there are a handful of choices that could work on the roster without feeling too out of place. I mean, you support Pauline, so you obviously don't consider her to be an unnecessary Mario or DK rep, correct?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Pauline remained a generic damsel in distress who no one was familiar with for nearly two decades before getting regular appearances in the Mario vs Donkey Kong spinoff series.

No. Anyone who's played Donkey Kong is familiar with Pauline. She's the ORIGINAL damsel. She's definitely more familiar than Ice Climbers or Mr. Game & Watch, that's for sure. You shouldn't knock a character for being retro or not having a name. And generic is subjective. I could say Donkey Kong

She's literally one of the main cast members of DONKEY KONG. So yeah, I personally think she is more historically significant than FUNKY Kong.

And I'm not saying that debuting as Rare characters makes them any less Nintendo, especially since they are in plenty of post Rare Nintendo games, but I think Donkey Kong and Diddy are sufficient enough that we can reel it back in to the characters that were created by Nintendo.

I think anyone else from Donkey Kong Country is just going overboard. Or at the very least unnecessary. ESPECIALLY when we're talking about King K. Rool, Funky, and Cranky. I don't think they hold a candle to Pauline.

Edit: Yes, I'm aware there was a damsel in Sheriff, Swampasaur

 

[Opossum]

No. Anyone who's played Donkey Kong knows who Pauline is. She's the ORIGINAL damsel. She's definitely more familiar than Ice Climbers or Mr. Game & Watch, that's for sure. You shouldn't knock a character for being retro or not having a name.

She's literally one of the main cast members of DONKEY KONG. So yeah, I personally think she is more historically significant than FUNKY Kong.

And I'm not saying that debuting as Rare characters makes them any less Nintendo, especially since they are in plenty of post Rare Nintendo games, but I think Donkey Kong and Diddy are sufficient enough that we can reel it back in to the characters that were created by Nintendo themselves.

I think anyone else from Donkey Kong Country is just going overboard. Or at the very least unnecessary. ESPECIALLY when we're talking about King K. Rool, Funky, and Cranky. I don't think they hold a candle to Pauline.

Edit: Yes, I'm aware there was a damsel in Sheriff, Swampasaur

I think that's kind of...generous. Most people who've played Donkey Kong probably think Pauline is Peach.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think that's kind of...generous. Most people who've played Donkey Kong probably think Pauline is Peach.

In their defense, the designs were awfully similar. Heck, even Nintendo acknowledged this in Pauline's trophy description.

"Waaay back in 1981, a new action game using barrels and girders hit arcades. That game was Donkey Kong, in which Mario had to rescue Pauline from the title character. Maybe she wanted to look less like Princess Peach—she changed her look in the Game Boy version."

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think that's kind of...generous. Most people who've played Donkey Kong probably think Pauline is Peach.

Because nobody played Donkey Kong before 1985. (When Peach had red or brown hair until Super Mario Kart)

But sarcasm, aside. That's just flat out false. I'm sure some people did, but those would be like little kids. And even if it was true, who cares? Yet here you are again, naysaying every little comment I post even when I blocked you.

 

[Bowserlick]

I think Pauline's chances for Mariokart seem pretty decent now after her spotlight in Odyssey.

I think Dixie Kong and K. Rool have a far better shot at being included in Smash. Dixie Kong nearly made it in the game as a fighter once before.

 

[Opossum]

Because nobody played Donkey Kong before 1985. (When Peach had red or brown hair until Super Mario Kart)

But sarcasm, aside. That's just flat out false. I'm sure some people did, but those would be like little kids.

Pauline is nowhere near as well known a name as Peach is. Hell, Pauline wasn't even named Pauline in the original DK, but "Lady." So yeah, it's pretty daring to say Pauline is well known to those who've played Donkey Kong.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think there's more to take into consideration than who's more requested and just going "Nope that character's old. Nobody cares who that is."

There's more Nintendo characters than just Ridley and King K. Rool.

Nobody agrees? Okay.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

At the very least, Pauline was one of the first women in video gaming. And being a character from one of Nintendo's first game starring Mario should probably count for something.

That said, Dixie and especially K. Rool have the edge over her specifically because they have more moveset potential. Sure, as you mentioned, you could have her moves draw from the arcade games and the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series, though that's not really as obvious as, say, Dixie's hair or K. Rool's weapons.

Furthermore, both Dixie and K. Rool seem to be far more liked than Pauline, pre-Super Mario Odyssey at least.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

At the very least, Pauline was one of the first women in video gaming. And being a character from one of Nintendo's first game starring Mario should probably count for something.

That said, Dixie and especially K. Rool have the edge over her specifically because they have more moveset potential. Sure, as you mentioned, you could have her moves draw from the arcade games and the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series, though that's not really as obvious as, say, Dixie's hair or K. Rool's weapons.

Furthermore, both Dixie and K. Rool seem to be far more liked than Pauline, pre-Super Mario Odyssey at least.

Like I said. There's more to account for than who's more liked and who appears more recently.

And I wouldn't say Dixie has more move set potential. She'd be a Diddy semi-clone. The only move she doesn't share with him is the jet pack (she has a gumball gun).

 

[Opossum]

I honestly think Pauline will most likely be a stage element on the inevitable New Donk City stage.

 

[Cosmic77]

And I wouldn't say Dixie has more move set potential. She'd be a Diddy semi-clone. The only move she doesn't share with him is the jet pack (she has a gumball gun).

Like how everyone was right when they said Rosalina would be a terrible addition because she'd be a lame Peach clone?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Like how everyone was right when they said Rosalina would be a terrible addition because she'd be a lame Peach clone?

The people who said Rosalina would be a clone were just wrong and I was sure to let them know. Just like the people who said Lucas and Dark Pit WOULDN'T be clones were wrong.

Rosalina shares no abilities with Peach and is paired with Luma. Dixie shares abilities with Diddy as well as his exact proportions. Unlike Rosalina.

What are these amazing abilities Dixie has opposed to Diddy besides her hair? Sharing Diddy's proportions, Sakurai would most likely see it easier to give her the gumball gun, banana, and monkey flip. Maybe giver her some different smash attacks, Guitar for Final Smash, and her hair as her recovery, but that's it.

 

[PeridotGX]

Pauline? I don't think she's in contention with DK characters. We're talking about her because of Odyssey, not a DK game. Not sure if she'll get in though.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

We're talking about her because of Odyssey, not a DK game..

We're actually not. That much was made clear. By me. Several times.

 

[PeridotGX]

We're actually not. That much was made clear.

Really. You're telling me we would be having this converstion, and you would be taken seriously, if she wasn't in Odyssey? It's the only reason she's slightly likely. And I would argue that Pauline is equally as iconic as Dixie Kong (Not that iconic). But she probably isn't fighting that battle. And I think [Captian] Toad is far more likely