Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

The main thing I've been seeing as far as stage legality is that just because a stage was legal in the past, there's no guarantee it'll be legal now. Best example is probably Prism Tower. It was legal on 3DS but will likely be banned now due to the recurring walk off it starts with. It was legal on 3DS due to the dearth of legal stages there, but will likely be banned now because "better" options exist.

That's the main argument I've been seeing anyway. Hooray for needlessly limited stage selection! /s

I already did a compilation of all the past legal stages and the stages whose only reason for being banned was hazards that could now be toggled off:

So here's the legal stages that might be legal this time around (not including Battlefield and Final Destination):

Dream Land (64)
Fountain of Dreams
Pokemon Stadium 1
Yoshi's Story
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Arena Ferox
Town and City

Stages that could become legal due to hazard toggle:

Warioware Inc.
Unova Pokemon League
Find Mii
Midgar (assuming Materia is considered a stage hazard)
Pictochat 2
Wily Castle (unless what is said about the platforms still being there is true)

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I think the reason behind him being a costume is similar to the Koopalings. The Pikmin are the basis of the move set and the only difference is who's controlling the Pikmin, or, who's riding the clown car.

So he could have at the very least added Rock Pikmin to the rotation to justify that.

Yes. Olimar uses Rock Pikmin in the Pikmin games BUT he does not use Rock Pikmin in the Smash games. That's why people say Alph should be the one who uses Rock Pikmin in the Smash games.

From further digging, it seems like they were planned - I'm hoping the idea is brought back and put onto an Echo for sure.

honestly, I just want the other captains playable.

 

[Opossum]

I already did a compilation of all the past legal stages and the stages whose only reason for being banned was hazards that could now be toggled off:

Arena Ferox and Unova Pokémon League (Hazardless) being legal would be the dream for me.

Also Wuhu Island but that's not happening.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Arena Ferox and Unova Pokémon League (Hazardless) being legal would be the dream for me.

Also Wuhu Island but that's not happening.

I forgot Arena Detox even existed, I haven't seen it around (also haven't talked to you in a while, congrats on getting Chrom in!). Unova Pokemon League would be a cool tournament legal stage.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think that many casuals used them. It's almost impossible to get even half of them without extensive grinding.
The whole custom system in Smash 4 is the single worst thing I've seen in a Nintendo published game in the last decade, even ten times worse than XC2's gacha system.
It's an absurd, time consuming (for both devs and players) system that rewards you with janky, unbalanced, or straight up useless moves.

True. How to get customs was way too hard.
I hope Sakurai does the thing that customs are automatically unlocked like stages.

 

[Zinith]

Yes, Arena Ferox is legal in the 3DS game...

 

[Idon]

If this type of **** legal, I swear, I am never gonna be ok with it.

What is it with the Smash versions of Arenas having weird clockwork pulley systems with moving platforms?

 

[Kuon]

Of the unconfirmed (or de-confirmed) stages we have left, which one would you like to see the most? For me it'd be pretty close between Sector Z and Meta Crystal from Smash64

 

[Captain Fun]

You know what's neat? Simon has NES style hit sounds on his whip and uppercut, while Richter doesn't. The sound design in this game is great.

 

[Will]

Yes, Arena Ferox is legal in the 3DS game...

I don't think they're bringing Arena Ferox though, just Coliseum.

 

[Zinith]

Of the unconfirmed (or de-confirmed) stages we have left, which one would you like to see the most? For me it'd be pretty close between Sector Z and Meta Crystal from Smash64

Woolly World and Pac-Maze

I don't think they're bringing Arena Ferox though, just Coliseum.

Nope. It's confirmed

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Whys everyone got to be so picky about the character models? 95% of them look just fine.

 

[Luminario]

I know this was a few days ago, but I have some questions about this Gardevoir leak that I need concrete answers to because the controversy is still happening all over the internet.
(@papagenos, maybe you could help me out here.)

1. Why was this leak not brought sooner after or before the Nintendo Direct if it was in July?
2. Why do people think it's "obviously fake" if it's full of accurate claims?
3. Can someone explain to me what the controversy is about? Besides people emotionally not liking the idea or thinking they know better which characters are likely and which ones aren't, what about this leak seems "fake"? It's full of accurate information. It predicted Simon, Richter, King K. Rool, and Dark Samus, and that's EXACTLY what was confirmed in the August Direct.

Lemme try to answer these.
1) Cause there were like a thousand leaks a day, not to mention the contents could easily have been disproven by Gardevoir or Dark Samus reprising their previous roles. The only reason we're discussing it now is cause whoever the person is on here with the patience of a saint that compiled all the leaks gave us a list of the ones not dead and it popped up.
2) Because it missed Simon as the original instead of seeing Richter as the echo. Also people don't like the idea of Gothitelle. There's also the fact that the language the leaker uses is vague, so you can interpret it as either he stole an entire demo and datamined it or took a sneak peek at some debug mode while he was unsupervised for 2 minutes.
3) It didn't actually predict Simon, only that Richter was the Castlevania rep. The points above sorta explain why people don't like the leak, but I do feel some part of that is the concept of getting an unpopular Pokemon as a potential fighter. Since I like Gardevoir and Gothitelle and the potential reasoning behind them has good logic I give the leak the benefit of the doubt, but it could very easily be total bull**** so many aren't as convinced.

 

[Opossum]

I don't think they're bringing Arena Ferox though, just Coliseum.

Nah, Arena Ferox is in.

It also looks gorgeous.

 

[Kuon]

Woolly World and Pac-Maze

Nope. It's confirmed

Ah yes, Pac Maze would be way better than Pac Land. That stage is just an eye sore

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Of the unconfirmed (or de-confirmed) stages we have left, which one would you like to see the most? For me it'd be pretty close between Sector Z and Meta Crystal from Smash64

Meta Crystal would be amazing to see playable in an official Smash game.

Also, Pac-Maze.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Of the unconfirmed (or de-confirmed) stages we have left, which one would you like to see the most? For me it'd be pretty close between Sector Z and Meta Crystal from Smash64

Mute City from Melee was always my favorite as a kid, so I'm gonna have to go with that one. Poke Floats is also a given, but most people would say that.

Also I realized I totally wrote Arena Detox in that above post and I'd like to make that my home stage.

 

[Kuon]

Whys everyone got to be so picky about the character models? 95% of them look just fine.

I think 100% of them look fine. Who are people complaining about?

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Ok since some people liked the idea of recycling custom moves into echo movesets, here are some of my ideas.

Spoiler: Funky Kong

IT'S TIME TO GET FUNKY!!!!

So here's how a Funky Kong Echo could work. Recycle old DK custom moves from Smash 4 and give em' to Funky. Most notably Storm Punch and Kong Cyclone to give him a wind box themed move set that reflect his job at Funky Flights. ( tweak Kong cyclone so it not so janky)


Throw some clothes on the DK model, give him some unique idle animations to show his radical personality, have him use his surfboard with his taunts, and use the jumbo barrel as his character intro. Bam! You got yourself an easy and bodacious echo.

Spoiler: Impa

So in terms as an echo, I'd like to see Impa have these changes from Shiek.

1. Her magical barrier as a unique shield like the one in the video above at 0:48. Like Yoshi's shield Impa's shield would not shrink, instead it would start to shatter before breaking entirely.
2. Side-B burst grenades being altered to look magical like the magic bomb at 1:48 in the video above. Don't even have to change the gameplay mechanics just the aesthetics of the attack.
3. Recycle some custom move from Smash 4. For the neutral b, Impa could have Kunai instead of needles
4. As a character entrance, Impa emerges from the gate of time from Skyward

Spoiler: Blaziken (Falcon echo)

I don't know if cross series echoes are going to be a thing, but mainly this is just an example of implementing customs into echoes.

For implementing customs I feel these work the best:
Wind-up Raptor Boost, Falcon Dash Punch, and Explosive Falcon Dive.



Then just give Blaziken a pokeball intro, unique taunts, and a final smash with Mega Blaziken. There, you got yourself a good echo.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

re cut Stages: Mute City (melee) no question.

King Sonnn DeDeDoo Love all of those. Keep going and definitely compile them!

 

[Honest Slug]

I've been thinking a lot of the amount of viable stages for competitive play. We could be looking at a lot of legal stages if we open up to the hazard toggle. Even without it we're looking at a lot more variety than before.

Stages that can be legal on their own:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Dream Land 64
Yoshi's Story
Fountain of Dreams
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Town and City

(I do realize that Pokemon Stadium 1, Delfino, Halberd, Prism Tower and etc. were legal before, but even in those old games they are highly contentious toward their legal status, with more stages to choose from I feel they'll get the shaft)

Stages that might be legal if the hazard toggle works like I think it does:
Kongo Jungle 64
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium
WarioWare, Inc.
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium 2
Reset Bomb Forest
Find Mii
PictoChat 2
Mushroom Kingdom U
Kalos Pokemon League
Wily Castle
Midgar
Dracula's Castle

 

[Noipoi]

Whys everyone got to be so picky about the character models? 95% of them look just fine.

I agree, I haven't noticed many problems besides a few here and there. They all look great to me.

 

[Zinith]

I did a stage-to-character ratio thing last night, but it was so late it got lost in dead space so...

You know, I'm gonna expand on my stage-to-character ratio thing a bit to include EVERY installment. Note that I'm separating the 3DS and Wii U versions of Smash 4 and I'm making separate one for "pre-DLC" and "post-DLC" (that's FOUR Smash 4 lists. Yikes!!!). Once again, no Mii Fighters and Final Destination, Battlefield and Big Battlefield. Anyways...

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros.

[12 Fighters, 9 Stages]

1
0.5
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. Melee

[26 Fighters, 27 Stages]

3
2
1
0.8
0.5
0.4
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[39 Fighters, 39 Stages]
Animal Crossing, Nintendo DS and Electroplankton each have 1 stage but no fighters

2
1.5
1
0.67
0.6
0.5
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS pre-DLC

[48 Fighters, 32 Stages]
Nintendo DS, Balloon Fight, Tomodachi Life, Nintendogs and Find Mii each have 1 stage but no fighters

1
0.71
0.5
0.4
0.33
0.25
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS post-DLC

[55 Fighters, 40 Stages]
Nintendo DS, Balloon Fight, Tomodachi Life, Nintendogs and Find Mii each have 1 stage but no fighters

1
0.67
0.6
0.5
0.33
0.17
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U pre-DLC

[48 Fighters, 43 Stages]
Piotwings, Wii Sports and Wrecking Crew each have 1 stage but no fighters

2
1.5
1
0.86
0.66
0.6
0.5
0.4
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U post-DLC

[55 Fighters, 52 Stages]
Pilotwings, Wii Sports, Wrecking Crew and Miiverse each have 1 stage but no fighters

2
1.5
1.14
1
0.66
0.5
0.33
0

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

[70 Fighters, 100 Stages]
Nintendo DS, Electroplankton, Balloon Fight, Tomodachi Life, Nintendogs, Find Mii, Pilotwings, Wii Sports and Wrecking Crew each have 1 stage but no fighters

4
3
2.25
2
1.5
1.33
1
0.78
0.5
0.43
0

I think 100% of them look fine. Who are people complaining about?

I took note of how my boi has something weird going on with his leg while he fairs, and his spines clip into his saddle.

 

[Kuon]

I know I talk about Isabelle a lot, but I recently several people say that Isabelle's fans are people from the "dark side" of the internet. Any idea if this is true?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

honestly, I just want the other captains playable.

This person gets it. At the very least Brittany and Charlie should get in (especially the latter, he ain't got much respect).

 

[TumblrFamous]

So have we discussed the extent of the stage hazard toggle? I am curious how much freedom we will have with stages that transform or travel like Paper Mario or Mushroomy Kingdom. Like, would we be able to choose a specific area to fight on with no hazards like between the Windmill area, Ship, or Bowser's Castle in the Paper Mario stage?

Or does the toggle only worry about stage hazards and bosses, and disregards transforming stages/moving stages like the Mario ones?

 

[Iridium]

Ok since some people liked the idea of recycling custom moves into echo movesets, here are some of my ideas.

Spoiler: Funky Kong

IT'S TIME TO GET FUNKY!!!!

So here's how a Funky Kong Echo could work. Recycle old DK custom moves from Smash 4 and give em' to Funky. Most notably Storm Punch and Kong Cyclone to give him a wind box themed move set that reflect his job at Funky Flights. ( tweak Kong cyclone so it not so janky)


Throw some clothes on the DK model, give him some unique idle animations to show his radical personality, have him use his surfboard with his taunts, and use the jumbo barrel as his character intro. Bam! You got yourself an easy and bodacious echo.

Spoiler: Impa

So in terms as an echo, I'd like to see Impa have these changes from Shiek.

1. Her magical barrier as a unique shield like the one in the video above at 0:48. Like Yoshi's shield Impa's shield would not shrink, instead it would start to shatter before breaking entirely.
2. Side-B burst grenades being altered to look magical like the magic bomb at 1:48 in the video above. Don't even have to change the gameplay mechanics just the aesthetics of the attack.
3. Recycle some custom move from Smash 4. For the neutral b, Impa could have Kunai instead of needles
4. As a character entrance, Impa emerges from the gate of time from Skyward

Spoiler: Blaziken (Falcon echo)

I don't know if cross series echoes are going to be a thing, but mainly this is just an example of implementing customs into echoes.

For implementing customs I feel these work the best:
Wind-up Raptor Boost, Falcon Dash Punch, and Explosive Falcon Dive.
View attachment 158075View attachment 158078View attachment 158076


Then just give Blaziken a pokeball intro, unique taunts, and a final smash with Mega Blaziken. There, you got yourself a good echo.

To be honest, I don't think I would have fun playing against Wind Kong. I've seen what he's done to poor souls . . .

 

[Idon]

I know I talk about Isabelle a lot, but I recently several people say that Isabelle's fans are people from the "dark side" of the internet. Any idea if this is true?

There's fans of all characters from the "dark side" of the internet.

Well, if a character has fans to begin with.

 

[Zinith]

I've been thinking a lot of the amount of viable stages for competitive play. We could be looking at a lot of legal stages if we open up to the hazard toggle. Even without it we're looking at a lot more variety than before.

Stages that can be legal on their own:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Dream Land 64
Yoshi's Story
Fountain of Dreams
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Town and City

(I do realize that Pokemon Stadium 1, Delfino, Halberd, Prism Tower and etc. were legal before, but even in those old games they are highly contentious toward their legal status, with more stages to choose from I feel they'll get the shaft)

Stages that might be legal if the hazard toggle works like I think it does:
Kongo Jungle 64
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium
WarioWare, Inc.
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium 2
Reset Bomb Forest
Find Mii
PictoChat 2
Mushroom Kingdom U
Kalos Pokemon League
Wily Castle
Midgar
Dracula's Castle

I just did that. Kongo Jungle 64, Brinstar, Frigate Orpheon, Halberd, Pokemon Stadium 2, Reset Bomb Forest, Mushroom Kingdom U and Kalos Pokemon League have other problems besides hazards. Also I'd put Unova Pokemon League in the second list because it only has hazards...

 

[Kuon]

I did a stage-to-character ratio thing last night, but it was so late it got lost in dead space so...



I took note of how my boi has something weird going on with his leg while he fairs, and his spines clip into his saddle.

Maybe they still have more tweaking to do with the characters. I'm sure they'll look better by the time it's released

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

To be honest, I don't think I would have fun playing against Wind Kong. I've seen what he's done to poor souls . . .

Funky dominated Mario Kart Wii, Smash bros. is his next victim....

lol but yeah they would have to really tweak that custom move if they re-implemented it.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

This person gets it. At the very least Brittany and Charlie should get in (especially the latter, he ain't got much respect).

Louie absolutely; people were actually a bit livid over that one last I remember.

 

[praline]

So have we discussed the extent of the stage hazard toggle? I am curious how much freedom we will have with stages that transform or travel like Paper Mario or Mushroomy Kingdom. Like, would we be able to choose a specific area to fight on with no hazards like between the Windmill area, Ship, or Bowser's Castle in the Paper Mario stage?

Or does the toggle only worry about stage hazards and bosses, and disregards transforming stages/moving stages like the Mario ones?

Either it would not move for moving stages or stages that change or it won’t do anything at all with hazards off.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Joke: Metal Sonic
Woke: Neo Metal Sonic with black lightning and red terminator eyes

Spoiler

 

[Noipoi]

I know I talk about Isabelle a lot, but I recently several people say that Isabelle's fans are people from the "dark side" of the internet. Any idea if this is true?

Every character has fans from the "dark side". Don't let that stop you from liking the character or wanting them in Smash.
And if anyone tries to imply that the only people who like the character are from this "dark side" just ignore them, you've got better things to do than argue with morons on the internet.

 

[Kuon]

There's fans of all characters from the "dark side" of the internet.

Well, if a character has fans to begin with.

That is a good point. Also, if it exists, there are fans of it

 

[Zinith]

Every character has fans from the "dark side". Don't let that stop you from liking the character or wanting them in Smash.
And if anyone tries to imply that the only people who like the character are from this "dark side" just ignore them, you've got better things to do than argue with morons on the internet.

Yes, EVERY character has fans from the "dark side"

EVERY character

 

[Honest Slug]

I just did that. Kongo Jungle 64, Brinstar, Frigate Orpheon, Halberd, Pokemon Stadium 2, Reset Bomb Forest, Mushroom Kingdom U and Kalos Pokemon League have other problems besides hazards. Also I'd put Unova Pokemon League in the second list because it only has hazards...

I didn't see your comment, I don't even attempt to read past messages in this thread any more lol.

I'm under the impression that the stage hazard toggle would make stages static. So Brinstar wouldn't have lava, we know Kongo Jungle would remove the barrel since they did the same with Kongo Falls, the other hazards would probably be removed, hazardless Frigate Orpheon looks legal from what I've seen, Halberd would probably get rid of the laser, Stadium 2, Mushroom Kingdom U, Kalos and Reset Bomb Forest wouldn't transform. That's just a theory anyways and we won't fully know until the game comes out.

From what I remember didn't Unova have a walk-off? I didn't play much of the 3DS version.

 

[Kuon]

Every character has fans from the "dark side". Don't let that stop you from liking the character or wanting them in Smash.
And if anyone tries to imply that the only people who like the character are from this "dark side" just ignore them, you've got better things to do than argue with morons on the internet.

Oh don't worry, nothing will keep me from wanting her in Smash, unless she got the AT treatment again

 

[Iridium]

Every character has fans from the "dark side". Don't let that stop you from liking the character or wanting them in Smash.
And if anyone tries to imply that the only people who like the character are from this "dark side" just ignore them, you've got better things to do than argue with morons on the internet.

Wait, what is darkest thing that could relate to R.O.B. through his fans?