Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PsychoIncarnate]

Probably the only two characters that I'd actively be angry about. Especially Camilla. She represents all the worst parts of Fate's writing.

But regardless, I doubt we'll ever get a side character in Smash when there's so many protagonists left who are trying to squeeze their ways in.

But she represents all the best parts of Fate's visuals/ art direction

 

[Kuon]

Ok I feel like I've talked enough about this and everyone's sick of me complaining, but that's absolutely not how the WTF character works. The WTF characters have always been characters no one could predict but once they were revealed made so much sense.
Mr. Game & Watch? Wild, but an iconic part of Nintendo History.
Rob? First non-videogame character, but Same.
Wii Fit & Duck Hunt? Not characters most people thought of (at least seriously) but Duck Hunt was huge and Wii Fit, and the Wii genre was big for Nintendo so of course.

Gothitelle?...yeah no. It has the wtf factor, but not the ahhhh factor afterwards. Years from now people wouldn't look back and say "of course, Gothitelle" like they do for every past WTF character.

Seriously Gothitelle doesn't even have anime/merchandise promotion on its side like Jigglypuff did. It's a Pokemon from almost a decade ago, with no recent resurgence. It makes no sense.

Edit: I'm really sorry to go off on this everytime it's brought up, but I just can't be looked at in the face (or as much as you can online) and be told "Oh yeah, Gothitelle in Smash makes sense". I just can't not have a reaction to that. Why? Because my girl Jynx is superior and how dare she be left out.

Remember that leak about Meteos being in Smash Ultimate? If not, here it is https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76835898
I could see Meteos being that WTF character. He resembles Mr G&W

 

[ZephyrZ]

But she represents all the best parts of Fate's visuals/ art direction

Well, at least you're honest about why you like her.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You know, I kinda want Isabelle's trailer to be Isabelle going through Villager's mail (as a Secretary, not as a creepy stalker ) and finding a +1 Invitation.

That’s ok, I’ll totally assume it was unsavory.

I’ve never played Animal Crossing, so I’ve adopted a headcanon that Isabelle is basically Assistant Mayor Bellweather from Zootopia and is the real villain of the AC series behind her façade. Why else would she go off to some dangerous drag racing through the AC world with Bowser?

You all may not be anle to see her wielding villager’s axe, but I think she’d be quite eager to start swinging it at others. “Who’s Mayor now, *****!”

 

[Deleted member]

Vergeben is the only one to have been 100% right and the only one I believe right now
Lol at "i datamined the demo build and it somehow had the data for characters not present on it" yeah, sure, I'll believe that.
I don't know who Loz or why he's credible but I can bet my ass he got one thing tangentially right and now everyone wants to believe him for whatever reason

 

[KMDP]

Nah, what we need is Camilla.

Hector with a Camilla echo, here we come.

(But really what I want is Hector with a Charlotte echo, but alas, Charlotte is a nobody in the plot of Fates, even Tharja has some importance)

But she represents all the best parts of Fate's visuals/ art direction

Yeah. Boobs! *shot*

No, but seriously, Camilla has a pretty good design. Her personality is... an acquired taste, let's just say that.

 

[Pyra]

That’s ok, I’ll totally assume it was unsavory.

I’ve never played Animal Crossing, so I’ve adopted a headcanon that Isabelle is basically Assistant Mayor Bellweather from Zootopia and is the real villain of the AC series behind her façade. Why else would she go off to some dangerous drag racing through the AC world with Bowser?

You all may not be anle to see her wielding villager’s axe, but I think she’d be quite eager to start swinging it at others. “Who’s Mayor now, *****!”

Pretty much.
While I don't necessarily want her to be a "bad guy" in that way, haha, I kinda want her to have a whole "well i guess i'm sweet and all but i have like 6 black belts and have killed a man" kinda thing going on

I mean, implicitly of course.

 

[meowth_thats_wrong]

"no cuts" = not the same as "every character EVER coming back"

"Ridley" = a guess everybody and their mother has been making for years, this time, it turned out to be true

"Daisy" = as above

"Simon" = been expected since Brawl

These are all characters that have been fan favourite picks for YEARS, and that's WHY they're in the game, this game is tailored for fans. Verg spouted the typical claims everyone makes every year and this time it just happened to be true. Notice how he didn't "predict" Richter, who was revealed in the very same breath as Simon, because nobody was expecting Richter.

The nail in the coffin for me is his BS about the Gen 7 Pokemon. He just wants attention, if he knew what the Pokemon was, he would say it. He wouldn't keep stringing everyone along by saying "nope, it's not that one!".

He's full of BS, at first glance he seemed legit, and hell, maybe he was at one point, but I'm certain by now he's riding off coat-tails.

Ridley = He specifically pinned a Ridley reveal during E3's direct. Ridley may have been a popular speculation but the chances surrounding his inclusion were still incredibly controversial.

Daisy = So far no one has been able to leak the Echo fighters so it's reasonable to assume they came later in development or are handled by a separate team.

Simon = Simon has not been "expected since Brawl." He was on no one's radar. I encourage you to look at all the prediction rosters posted after Smash's first reveal trailer. Simon was absolutely not a character people would predict with confidence - he was hardly ever brought up to begin with and is a fairly dated character. He was not a fan favorite pick. K. Rool is a fan favorite pick. Chrom is a fan favorite pick.

It's not the fact that Vergeben predicted Ridley and Simon Belmont. It's the fact that he predicted Ridley AT E3 with absolute certainty. It's the fact that he predicted Simon months before his reveal trailer, before anyone was even considering him, with absolute certainty. Everything he said was correct and nothing he said was incorrect. He didn't predict that every character in history would return, but is it so hard to believe that with Nintendo running such a tight ship, his source would only gleam a few noteworthy veterans? The fact that he was even confident about pipe-dream returning vets like Icies and Snake was notable. This is an incredible streak of luck if he's just playing a guessing game.

As for the Isabelle/Pokemon leaks, time will tell whether these new sources are reliable or not, but I have no doubt that Vergeben has connections to legit sources. Keep in mind that his sources aren't going to spill everything they know when they're under an NDA, and he likewise isn't going to reveal enough for his sources to be tracked down.

 

[Deleted member]

Isabelle literally killed three men with her bare hands before the events of New Leaf, it's canon, just read her diary.

 

[Pakky]

Ok I feel like I've talked enough about this and everyone's sick of me complaining, but that's absolutely not how the WTF character works. The WTF characters have always been characters no one could predict but once they were revealed made so much sense.
Mr. Game & Watch? Wild, but an iconic part of Nintendo History.
Rob? First non-videogame character, but Same.
Wii Fit & Duck Hunt? Not characters most people thought of (at least seriously) but Duck Hunt was huge and Wii Fit, and the Wii genre was big for Nintendo so of course.

Gothitelle?...yeah no. It has the wtf factor, but not the ahhhh factor afterwards. Years from now people wouldn't look back and say "of course, Gothitelle" like they do for every past WTF character.

Seriously Gothitelle doesn't even have anime/merchandise promotion on its side like Jigglypuff did. It's a Pokemon from almost a decade ago, with no recent resurgence. It makes no sense.

Edit: I'm really sorry to go off on this everytime it's brought up, but I just can't be looked at in the face (or as much as you can online) and be told "Oh yeah, Gothitelle in Smash makes sense". I just can't not have a reaction to that. Why? Because my girl Jynx is superior and how dare she be left out.

Even back in the day though the BIG pocket monster on campus was Zoroark and later Genesect. What sense in any context does this thing make.

To me it would make more sense if you're going the "rep every gen" route, to choose the STAR of each gen, not well, ya'know.

 

[Kuon]

That’s ok, I’ll totally assume it was unsavory.

I’ve never played Animal Crossing, so I’ve adopted a headcanon that Isabelle is basically Assistant Mayor Bellweather from Zootopia and is the real villain of the AC series behind her façade. Why else would she go off to some dangerous drag racing through the AC world with Bowser?

You all may not be anle to see her wielding villager’s axe, but I think she’d be quite eager to start swinging it at others. “Who’s Mayor now, *****!”

Or that she secretly is in love with the mayor and will kill anyone who tries to hurt him

 

[SneakDuckens]

Can someone explain to me how we know the results of the fan poll? I think I missed that.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Remember that leak about Meteos being in Smash Ultimate? If not, here it is https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76835898
I could see Meteos being that WTF character. He resembles Mr G&W

That would make a bit more sense due to Sakurai's connection, but I don't see it happening. Also that leak was disproven in case you didn't know.

 

[Deleted member]

pipe-dream returning vets like Icies

But didn't almost everyone expect Ice Climbers to come back?

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'd actually say that character design wise, Camilla's design is a mess. Trying to mix that spiky, edgy armor design with raw sex appeal made her outfit come out....interesting, to say the least. From an aesthetic standpoint it fell pretty flat, imo.

 

[KMDP]

Pretty much.
While I don't necessarily want her to be a "bad guy" in that way, haha, I kinda want her to have a whole "well i guess i'm sweet and all but i have like 6 black belts and have killed a man" kinda thing going on

I mean, implicitly of course.

Six Black Belts?

Karate
Judo
Tae Kwon Do
Jujitsu
Jeet Kune Do
...
...Tae Kwon Leap
Isabelle: BOOTTOTHEHEAD!
Marth: Huh? GWAH!

That reminds me that I still haven't made my "Implied Character Inclusion Rules discussion" thread.

My Rules post from yesterday is here, by the way.

Also, you can probably add "There is a limit on how many characters a single game can get" to the list of potentially broken rules.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

You know I'm far from knowledgeable of pokemon, but couldn't Delphox have been an echo of Gardevoir?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You know I'm far from knowledgeable of pokemon, but couldn't Delphox have been an echo of Gardevoir?

I don't think that would work with their Body structure

Also Delphox is UUUUGGGLYYYY

 

[Kuon]

Isabelle literally killed three men with her bare hands before the events of New Leaf, it's canon, just read her diary.

I'm about to look this diary up!

That would make a bit more sense due to Sakurai's connection, but I don't see it happening. Also that leak was disproven in case you didn't know.

Aww... Well it still seems like more of a WTF character than Gothitelle

 

[TheGoobster]

You know I'm far from knowledgeable of pokemon, but couldn't Delphox have been an echo of Gardevoir?

Yeah, it's just that Gothetelle is more similar to Gardevoir than Delphox is.

 

[Noipoi]

You know I'm far from knowledgeable of pokemon, but couldn't Delphox have been an echo of Gardevoir?

It could, but Gothitelle is a little closer to Gardevoir when it comes to being vaguely human looking things.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Or that she secretly is in love with the mayor and will kill anyone who tries to hurt himView attachment 157813

“Don’t touch my mayor, you punk”

 

[osby]

I don't think that would work with their Body structure

Also Delphox is UUUUGGGLYYYY

Delphox looks fine on paper. 3D models and anime seems to have a hard time capturing it, though.

 

[StormC]

Verge has a lot of reasons to be credible but Ice Climbers ain’t one of them. Everyone and their mother figured they would be back.

 

[KMDP]

“Don’t touch my mayor, you punk”
View attachment 157814

Isabelle, guilty of the most drive-by shootings in any AC village.

The only reason people haven't stopped her is because she's the only one with a gun.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Well despite whatever gripes I have with Gothitelle, if it were to get in as an echo, it'd only really be complimentary to Gardevoir, and I have very little problem with Gardevoir getting in. She's always been pretty freakin popular. I'd just be surprised it happened now

 

[osby]

“Don’t touch my mayor, you punk”
View attachment 157814

I don't care about villains, this won't be Ultimate without Isabelle for me.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Isabelle probably passes off all her crimes as the wrongdoings of Nook. Just an innocent Racoon man trying to make an honest wage

 

[KMDP]

Well despite whatever gripes I have with Gothitelle, if it were to get in as an echo, it'd only really be complimentary to Gardevoir, and I have very little problem with Gardevoir getting in. She's always been pretty freakin popular. I'd just be surprised it happened now

I'm pretty sure Gardevoir is the most popular non-Legendary Gen III Pokémon, at least in Japan.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Here's a fun disappointing game to prep us all for the next infodump:

Sakurai shows of your absolute #1 most wanted character...as an assist trophy. It's a gorgeous model, they have a lot of attacks and act almost like a real character, but are stuck in the assist box. Sakurai also takes that opportunity to show off a beautifully detailed Mii costume for them as well.

How do you take it?

Me - that's making the Dragonborn an assist. I'd be a bit bummed if he's not playable, but just having Skyrim content would be awesome. Plus, I'd actually have a reason to play the Miis then. And I could still get some great pictures in the gallery mode as well.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, I'm trying to keep my worries to a minimum, so I'm gonna keep believing Vergeben about Isabelle, Minecraft rep and Pokemon. Call me biased if you want

Right there with you about Isabelle. Having her and Octoling in would make this the best Smash ever for me!

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a fun disappointing game to prep us all for the next infodump:

Sakurai shows of your absolute #1 most wanted character...as an assist trophy. It's a gorgeous model, they have a lot of attacks and act almost like a real character, but are stuck in the assist box. Sakurai also takes that opportunity to show off a beautifully detailed Mii costume for them as well.

How do you take it?

Me - that's making the Dragonborn an assist. I'd be a bit bummed if he's not playable, but just having Skyrim content would be awesome. Plus, I'd actually have a reason to play the Miis then. And I could still get some great pictures in the gallery mode as well.

Oh my god Homura made it into the game. What the ****. The first ever anime character, and it isn't Goku. I'd drop Shulk immediately, and only play Mii Gunner from that day on.

All my wants at this point are completely unrealistic, so seeing them in the game at all would be ridiculous.

 

[Kuon]

Right there with you about Isabelle. Having her and Octoling in would make this the best Smash ever for me!

Yep! And to add to that, I'd much prefer Gardevoir and Gothitelle over a Gen 7 Pokémon

Oh my god Homura made it into the game. What the ****. The first ever anime character, and it isn't Goku. I'd drop Shulk immediately, and only play Mii Gunner from that day on.

All my wants at this point are completely unrealistic, so seeing them in the game at all would be ridiculous.

Homura from Senran Kagura?

 

[Noipoi]

Isabelle has robbed banks. Isabelle has killed three men. Isabelle has been to prison. Isabelle got help while in prison, realized the error of her ways and set out to do good in the world upon her release. Isabelle got a nice, cozy job as a secretary in a nice, cozy town. Isabelle really likes her boss, the mayor.
He's her best friend! Isabelle would do anything to protect him. Anything to protect him. Anything. Anything.

 

[KMDP]

Here's a fun disappointing game to prep us all for the next infodump:

Sakurai shows of your absolute #1 most wanted character...as an assist trophy. It's a gorgeous model, they have a lot of attacks and act almost like a real character, but are stuck in the assist box. Sakurai also takes that opportunity to show off a beautifully detailed Mii costume for them as well.

How do you take it?

Me - that's making the Dragonborn an assist. I'd be a bit bummed if he's not playable, but just having Skyrim content would be awesome. Plus, I'd actually have a reason to play the Miis then. And I could still get some great pictures in the gallery mode as well.

I would be disappointed, but Isaac was an assist in Brawl so... *shrug*

One thing I noticed about Knuckles in the latest Assist Trophy showcase is that he doesn't emote. At all.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Here's a fun disappointing game to prep us all for the next infodump:

Sakurai shows of your absolute #1 most wanted character...as an assist trophy.

My friend that's not a game that's a reality for some people.


I already lost Bomberman and Shovel Knight. I was sad, but it was cool to get them in at all. If it happens to Rayman, I'd prob have a similar reaction.

 

[Smashiny]

I'm pretty sure Gardevoir is the most popular non-Legendary Gen III Pokémon, at least in Japan.

I don't know man Mudkip and Blaziken are pretty popular

 

[Noipoi]

Here's a fun disappointing game to prep us all for the next infodump:

Sakurai shows of your absolute #1 most wanted character...as an assist trophy. It's a gorgeous model, they have a lot of attacks and act almost like a real character, but are stuck in the assist box. Sakurai also takes that opportunity to show off a beautifully detailed Mii costume for them as well.

How do you take it?

Me - that's making the Dragonborn an assist. I'd be a bit bummed if he's not playable, but just having Skyrim content would be awesome. Plus, I'd actually have a reason to play the Miis then. And I could still get some great pictures in the gallery mode as well.

How would I feel if Ashley was an Assist Trophy?...
Oh wait.

I guess being an upgraded Assist Trophy would be nice, but it's not enough for me.

 

[KMDP]

I don't know man Mudkip and Blaziken are pretty popular

My source is Japan's "Pokémon General Elections" for Gen 6.

Blaziken is the most popular Gen 3 starter, but it's still not as popular as Gardevoir.

 

[Kuon]

I don't care about villains, this won't be Ultimate without Isabelle for me.

It won't be my game of the year without Isabelle. If she were in the game, I'd play it for, like, the next year or two. If she's not in the game, I'll play it for a month or two, probably. Unless they bring in some other character that's just way better than Isabelle, but I don't think that's gonna happen, at least not for me