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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Shroob

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Well, I posted this in the Isaac thread, but I'm ready to get roasted. I have some random, largely baseless predictions to make.

I predict that we will get a new demo version of Smash unveiled at Gamescom later this month. We know that they will have a playable demo, and as far as I know this is the first time it will be playable post direct and thus the first time in a post Simon and K Rool world.

I also predict that they will reveal Isaac as a newcomer at Gamescom and that Simon, K Rool, and Isaac will be playable in the new demo version of ultimate at Gamescom.

However, if (when) I'm wrong, I will... do absolutely nothing. :joyful::happysheep:
Personally, not expecting any reveals outside of a Direct.
 

Thirdkoopa

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I thought the same thing in Smash 4 when I saw Link's face for the first time. "Ah, that must be a placeholder. I'm sure they'll change it." And then they didn't.
Yeah, sometimes that’s a thing that happens too, sadly.

...speaking of, maybe I should pay attention to Chrom’s in-game face a bit more.
 

vaanrose

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There's also a difference between technical quality and art direction.

If you look at Young Link, he looks spot on exactly like what Young Link should look like, his model is just really lacking in polish (his hair, especially).

But Chrom is just off model, which is worse than having a bad model. At least compared to his warriors model and his 2D art, his Smash model has larger, softer eyes and a weaker jawline. It results in a face that just doesn't quite look like his.
 

SirCamp

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Personally, not expecting any reveals outside of a Direct.
Part of the reason I considered that was really just the whole all characters revealed before launch bit. I figure they are going to have to find some ways to sprinkle in reveals (depending on how many are left). I'm also operating under the assumption that we will only have one more Smash focused direct, simply because I don't think they'll have enough to cover beyond character reveals to make more than one worth it. I mean we have to go over that potential new story mode, online, and like I guess trophies? Seems like one Smash direct would suffice. Along with potentially a character reveal in a non Smash focused direct as well. So if we have more than 3 unique newcomers yet to be revealed there may need to be some revealed elsewhere. Or maybe we'll just get more directs than I expect.
 
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Staarih

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Yeah, some of the in-game models look a bit wonky, at least close up. Luckily most of the gameplay is somewhat zoomed out so as long as all looks good in the big picture (and works well, especially), I'm all good.

The character art itself is really on point though.
 

SuperSceptile15

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I think I finally understand the reason why Geno has gotten so much popularity lately. Smash is a celebration of Nintendo's history, and Geno was the most popular character in the grandfather of Mario RPGs (there were many flash videos on Newgrounds around the Brawl era that featured him), which are a very popular part of the Super Mario franchise as a whole. At this point, I would be happy if he got in, even if it meant no Paper Mario.
 

Nielicus

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In second thought, some of the models DO look like garbage. I probably didn't notice due to maining a character who's simple enough to look good even when not polished :yoshi:
I’ve noticed this game’s art style lends itself really well to the cartoony and simpler characters like Pichu and Toon Link for example. But characters like Snake and Simon lowkey suffer.
 

Jibblypuff_

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Will we ever find out why Sakurai tracked down and purchased the Gundam? Top 10 questions that scientists cannot answer even to this day.
 

SirCamp

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Honestly I thought Wolf looked terrible when he showed up in the E3 direct. He was the only one that stood out to me in a bad way.

Well, outside of Snake's : peachemoji: :happysheep:
 
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Nielicus

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On second thought, some characters just look pretty bad straight up lol, I don’t think it’s the art style
 

vaanrose

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Yeah, some of the in-game models look a bit wonky, at least close up. Luckily most of the gameplay is somewhat zoomed out so as long as all looks good in the big picture (and works well, especially), I'm all good.

The character art itself is really on point though.
This is the other thing, of course. Always been a bit of a weird call to zoom in so close on all the promo shots. Especially for the assist trophies. They really do not hold up to scrutiny at that resolution.
 

WaxPython

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Blue would be so cool as a gen 1 Rep.

He would use Aracanine, Blastoise and Rhydon.

The movesets just make themselves.
 

Jedisupersonic

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It’s an interesting time for Smash speculation, especially when we’re discussing Skull Kid, Shadow, Geno and such as possible/likely.

I wouldn’t have imagined this back in the brawl days that’s for sure.
 

Shroob

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As much as I hate to say it, the reality of "Oh, the Direct happened 5 days ago, and there's still over 110 left" has finally dawned on me.
 

Jetsurge

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In second thought, some of the models DO look like garbage. I probably didn't notice due to maining a character who's simple enough to look good even when not polished :yoshi:
Chrom's model is complete trash but King K. Rool's model is godlike.

As much as I hate to say it, the reality of "Oh, the Direct happened 5 days ago, and there's still over 110 left" has finally dawned on me.
It's a lot easier waiting now that I don't have to stress about K. Rool being in.
 

Cosmic77

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On second thought, some characters just look pretty bad straight up lol, I don’t think it’s the art style
I think even some of the worst characters (Wolf, Young Link, Chrom, etc.) look great in this game. It's just that there's some glaring flaws that make them look rushed and unfinished. Wolf needs his jaw to be fixed, YL needs some work with his hair, and Chrom needs... Well, Chrom needs a complete makeover so it doesn't look like he woke up from a bachelor party.

Fix those things and I doubt people would care about the rest.
 

ShinyRegice

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Quoting this post nobody seems to have responded to because there's something I didn't think about it and am now thinking about:
So I've recently discovered the Gothitelle thing, and it made me think about the prospect of getting a playable Pokémon from every generation thanks to Echo fighters.

I'm sorry but I don't like the idea of playable Gothitelle in Smash, I don't have a specific grudge or dislike of this Pokémon in particular, it just... would stick like a sore thumb in the playable Pokémon roster, it really wouldn't feel like a Nintendo All-Star at all. But I have another idea for a playable Pokémon from every gen so far.

First of course bring us a unique gen VII Pokémon newcomer, then add two Echo fighters to represent Hoenn and Unova respectively. This makes me think I half-jokingly speculated a few weeks ago about Victini as an Echo of Pikachu. They roughly have the same body shape, Victini just has a thinner body between the head and legs, and they have the same Pokédex size. Here's how I imagine it:
  • Thunder Jolt becomes Incinerate: Victini takes the same pose as Pikachu, but the projectile is a fireball that works like Mario's custom big fireball.
  • Skull Bash becomes Zen Headbutt and is functionally the same.
  • Quick Attack remains the same.
  • Thunder becomes Searing Shot: Victini takes the same pose as Pikachu then powerful flames surround its body and damage anyone nearby.
  • Final Smash becomes V-Create and is basically a clone of Marth's and Lucina's Final Smash except a fiery V appears instead of a hit point counter.
In addition, Pikachu's electric effects, asides from Quick Attack and the pummel, would be replaced by flame effects. When I thought about Victini as a Pikachu Echo earlier I thought it would probably not work because of the animation differences but Dark Samus suggests that they're being a bit more liberal with animation changes that I expected them to be, as Victini's animations would certainly be less intensive to differenciate from Pikachu's that Dark Samus, basically it would be giving it a different idle stance as well as walking and running animations (which would certainly be floating like DS as suggested by the datamined animations from SM).

The cons are that Victini has longer arms, which would make it a bit harder to port over Pikachu's animations. I also had a shorter tail, but this would probably only affect the up smash's range.

And for the Hoenn rep Gardevoir is good, but rather than a unique newcomer, make it an Echo of Mewtwo. They have roughly the same body shape and abilities (Gardevoir can learn all of Mewtwo's special moves from Smash), so it could work. The big con is that Gardevoir lacks a tail, although the dress-like feature could be a workable substitute, at least down tilt, up tilt and up air: I admit it would look weird on forward tilt, back air and especially down throw. For other attributes, while Mewtwo uses dark magic aesthetics, Gardevoir would instead use light magic similar to Zelda, and could have Shadow Ball replaced with Moonblast (while being functionally similar). And for the Final Smash Gardevoir uses Hyper Beam, which works as a clone of Pokémon Trainer's Final Smash. It might sound generic, but don't forget that it would be a reference to Mega Gardevoir's Pixilate ability, and it would be colored in pink as a reference to this. It can also be more functionally similar to Mewtwo's FS if you replace Hyper Beam with Hyper Voice, but it seems a bit less hype.

I said earlier that with the exception of Dark Samus all potential echo ideas I generally saw as nice bonus rather than something I want, but I think I've found new echo fighters I really want. It would be such an amazing way to have all regions get playable representation! If they get revealed in a trailer with a gen VII Pokémon newcomer and a Pokémon boss like Guzzlord I think I would be incredibly hyper hyper and it would be a Pokémon fan's wet dream when it comes to Smash. Those who are not genwunners anyway
I thought about Gardevoir as a Mewtwo Echo a little more and now I'm not sure it can work, the shape of the legs are too different for Mewtwo's animations being easy to post on Gardevoir. On the other hand there's actually two other Pokémon that could work as an Echo of Pichu instead... you know what I mean, Plusme & Minun. It seems much less hype than Gardevoir, but since the overall body shape is much more similar it would be easier to work with. Difference wise they would lack Pichu's self harm effect but their electric attacks would be less powerful. And I guess Plusle would be the default and Minun would be an Alph-like alt. So basically we'd have a character alt of a clone of a semi-clone... :rolleyes: and for the Final Smash I imagine it would be the other bunny (Minun if you're using Plusle and vice versa) using Helping Hand and an electric storm appears in front of the played character with plus and minus signs, being similar in function to Roy's Final Smash.

It sounds less exciting than with Gardevoir, especially since with Victini too Pikachu would become the new Marth (an original character with a clone plus a semi-clone with its own clone), but if that's how we're getting a playable rep from each generation then I would take it. Not as enthusiastically as with Gardevoir but still cool.

Now this makes me think about the pra_mai thing from Brawl: we could imagine that Sakurai wanted to replace Pichu with Plusle & Minun, similar to how he replaced Young Link with Toon Link, because they're electric glires* with similar body shapes and abilities, but we know this placeholder couldn't be for a duo character because both Ice Climbers have their own slots in Brawl's data. We know Sakurai introduced alt characters in Smash 4 with Alph and the Koopalings, as well as how Lucina and Dark Pit originally were supposed to be, maybe he could have done the same for Plusle & Minun at the time of Brawl, and since they would have the exact same gameplay it would have made sense to give them the same slot in the game's data.

*Fun fact: although it's popular knowledge that lagomorphs (including rabbits) aren't rodents, they're still considered by phylogenetic science as the closest things to rodents, and there's a word to mention them collectively. So if you want to talk about "electric rodents" but don't feel comfortable with it because of electric rabbits, now say "electric glires" instead.

Oh and by the way... did anyone else notice that Street Fighters now has a whopping 36 tracks? That's even more than Castlevania! And we will certainly get Guile's theme!
 
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T-Hell

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Oh, now we're talking model's designs and graphics? Please don't turn into WWE 2K games fans... Also all of them look amazing.

PS: I would love for this site to correctly work for once..
 

Nonno Umby

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While some models look a little off, they have all the time to polish them, and Nintendk is know to polish a lot their games from reveal to release. Just look at Peach in Odyssey. This improvement was done in a few months:
59zpebet5rlz.jpg
 

Rocket Raccoon

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The game will look better. Nintendo always polishes up, Maybe these are base models so that they can at least get them in the game.
 

Pyra

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My friend just reminded me Hawlucha exists.
Extra 6th gen Pokemon DLC pls
 
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Standlord

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Quoting this post nobody seems to have responded to because there's something I didn't think about it and am now thinking about:

I thought about Gardevoir as a Mewtwo Echo a little more and now I'm not sure it can work, the shape of the legs are too different for Mewtwo's animations being easy to post on Gardevoir. On the other hand there's actually two other Pokémon that could work as an Echo of Pichu instead... you know what I mean, Plusme & Minun. It seems much less hype than Gardevoir, but since the overall body shape is much more similar it would be easier to work with. Difference wise they would lack Pichu's self harm effect but their electric attacks would be less powerful. And I guess Plusle would be the default and Minun would be an Alph-like alt. So basically we'd have a character alt of a clone of a semi-clone... :rolleyes: and for the Final Smash I imagine it would be the other bunny (Minun if you're using Plusle and vice versa) using Helping Hand and an electric storm appears in front of the played character with plus and minus signs, being similar in function to Roy's Final Smash.

It sounds less exciting than with Gardevoir, especially since with Victini too Pikachu would become the new Marth (an original character with a clone plus a semi-clone with its own clone), but if that's how we're getting a playable rep from each generation then I would take it. Not as enthusiastically as with Gardevoir but still cool.

Now this makes me think about the pra_mai thing from Brawl: we could imagine that Sakurai wanted to replace Pichu with Plusle & Minun, similar to how he replaced Young Link with Toon Link, because they're electric glires* with similar body shapes and abilities, but we know this placeholder couldn't be for a duo character because both Ice Climbers have their own slots in Brawl's data. We know Sakurai introduced alt characters in Smash 4 with Alph and the Koopalings, as well as how Lucina and Dark Pit originally were supposed to be, maybe he could have done the same for Plusle & Minun at the time of Brawl, and since they would have the exact same gameplay it would have made sense to give them the same slot in the game's data.

*Fun fact: although it's popular knowledge that lagomorphs (including rabbits) aren't rodents, they're still considered by phylogenetic science as the closest things to rodents, and there's a word to mention them collectively. So if you want to talk about "electric rodents" but don't feel comfortable with it because of electric rabbits, now say "electric glires" instead.

Oh and by the way... did anyone else notice that Street Fighters now has a whopping 36 tracks? That's even more than Castlevania! And we will certainly get Guile's theme!
I think Gardevoir as a Mewtwo echo is a good idea and could work pretty well but only if you replace the tail hitboxes with some sort of fairy-like petals effect like what Gardevoir has in Pokken, along with the changes you mentioned. Using her "dress" for attacks would look weird. I don't know about the Mewtwo's legs thing you are saying but maybe it doesn't have to be a perfect match, we have Dark Samus floating around while Samus walks.

On the other hand I don't think Victini could work, and I think there's no point in adding Plusle and Minum. I mean, echoes are supposed to be somewhat popular characters that cannot get in otherwise, if they are going to throw in echoes just to have a mon of every generation, I'd rather have Emolga as a gen 5 Pikachu echo, much more fitting and popular in my opinion.
 

osby

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Oh yeah, Pikachu used to be fat.

Which makes me wonder, what the **** was he eating to get him so chubby considering he's a speedy electric mouse?!!!
No idea. I prefer he's newer designs, tbh. Old ones are cute but less fitting to a super fast electric mouse.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Seems to be a trend overtime where mascot characters bodies shrink and their head gets bigger.

This is what happens when you don't stick to model sheets.
 
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