Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Shroob]

No I'm not a genwunner I'm open to games surpassing it.

But as of now it's the most iconic, with the best region, Pokemon designs, story, progression, difficulty, cartoon, music, characters, and lore.

Story behind team rocket killing cubone's mother and her ghost haunting the tower leading you having to do get the silly scope from Saffron City was genius.

It wasn't just weak point a to point b like gens after gen 4 are.

It had fair genuine challenge with the random rival encounters you loved to hate and so on.

These days they just heal your Pokemon lol

Stop. Just, stop.

Generation 2 puts Kanto's 5 tracks to ****ing shame.

 

[Iridium]

Glalie will never have a chance in Smash.

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: King Hippo

Spoiler: Boogerman

Spoiler: Taffy

Why did I do this?

I haven't been sleeping well...

 

[ZephyrZ]

I love Gen 1 but to say that the new gens ran out of ideas is just wrong.

Gen V pokemon were frequently based off previous gen ones. I can't really tell you what's up with that. Maybe they figured making something familiar but new would be the best way to appeal to nostalgia without including any Kanto mons? I can only guess.

But gen 6 and 7? They might not usually make my favorites aestheticay, but they really knock it out of the ballpark when it comes to creativity. A ninja frog who makes shurikens out of water and uses its tongue as a scarf, an owl who wears a leaf hood and makes arrows out of feathers and leaves, and then there's Type:Knoll and the insanely bizarre Ultra Beasts. Even the new Alola forms are generally more inspired than their original counterparts as you can see from theit dex descriptions. There's certainly no shortage on ideas.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Hey guys

Call me Fox Mulder

Because I want to believe

 

[Enchess]

If we're talking Pokemon, obviously Gen V is the best for giving us this absolute gem

Name one better Pokemon. Exactly.

Vaporeon (I still love Gen 1 like crazy even if I love Gen V more overall)
But man, I'd take Chandelure in Smash over Incineroar, Buzzwhole, Gardevoir, Decidueye, or Gengar easy.

 

[RandomAce]

It might have been too much work touching it up for what was one of the most unpopular stages that barely anyone liked playing on even casually. According to Sakurai that stage took over a year to make, and for all the work it took to make people mostly just trashed it as an unplayable mess. I could understand why it would be among the lowest priority of stages to bring back, and I don't miss it (though it was really helpful in my Smash 4 Luigi wins by doing nothing video, so I suppose I would miss it some for that).

I feel like this might the case, though Orbital Gate seemed fine as it was as most of the Wii U stages were mostly ported over slight changes and with the lighting effects already there, they look a lot better without having to put much effort into it.

I hope it still comes back though.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Is this another example of "you don't know what you love 'till it's taken away from you?"

If getting a level 9 CPU Jigglypuff to kill itself in Ultimate on any of those 103 stages proves a huge *****, well I might regret then what I said about Orbital Gate Assault (damn that one Arwing was really ****ing helpful for getting CPUs to kill themselves).

 

[Enchess]

Hey guys

Call me Fox Mulder

View attachment 157422

Because I want to believe

I seriously cant unsee that now....I uh...huh...
I still am on the fence on whether I think Geno will get in, but that's by far the best "what's on the magazine" for me.

 

[Iridium]

I'm a sucker for dark types, so yeah. Houndoom is easily one of my favorite non-legendary dark types, and the Mega Evolution just made it clear.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Vaporeon (I still love Gen 1 like crazy even if I love Gen V more overall)
But man, I'd take Chandelure in Smash over Incineroar, Buzzwhole, Gardevoir, Decidueye, or Gengar easy.

I would unironically love Chandelure in Smash. He played really interesting in Pokken (plus that adorable voice).

Though I'll happily take Buzzwole or Gengar. And accept Incineroar, Decidueye, or Gardevoir if they get in.

 

[PeridotGX]

No I'm not a genwunner I'm open to games surpassing it.

But as of now it's the most iconic, with the best region, Pokemon designs, story, progression, difficulty, cartoon, music, characters, and lore.

Story behind team rocket killing cubone's mother and her ghost haunting the tower leading you having to do get the silly scope from Saffron City was genius.

It wasn't just weak point a to point b like gens after gen 4 are.

It had fair genuine challenge with the random rival encounters you loved to hate and so on.

These days they just heal your Pokemon lol

I'm sorry, but Gen 1 objectively had a weak story. It was mostly just walking around to gyms with an occasional Team Rocket visit. Compare that to gens 5 and 7, who tried with a story and complex characters. And what lore was there in Gen 1?

 

[Shroob]

This one song on its own made me fall in love with Gen2. To say that Gen1 music is better than THIS is a hard sell my man.

 

[WaxPython]

I will say there was an interview a few years ago where a director did explicitly say they did make the games easier intentionally. That's my main issue with more modern Pokemon even though the games have never been that difficult to begin with.

However, I don't care for gen 6 much but I will say there were a lot of super cool Pokemon in it. Game Freak isn't even close to running out of ideas, to even say that just because you don't like some of the more recent gen designs seems silly.

Yeah I agree with gen 6 but that's because it has the lowest amount of new Pokemon and heaps of gen 1 mega forms meaning they could afford themselves more leeway with the designs.

Gen 1 introduced 151 Pokemon and nearly all of them a home runs it's funny when people bring up Pokemon like Muk like I've heard it all before it's a minuscule amount.

Of course every gen will have good and bad Pokemon anyone can find examples of both easily it's the overall that matters.

And when 30% is uninspired something is very wrong like in Gen V and Gen 7

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'm not a genwunner, but it has the best everything

Gen 3 is the best, fight me.

 

[Idon]

This one song on its own made me fall in love with Gen2. To say that Gen1 music is better than THIS is a hard sell my man.

Dude, this song is criminally underrated. I hardly ever see remixes of it online compared to the 100th gen 1 battle theme remix.
I remember actually falling asleep to this song, it was that good.

 

[Shroob]

I'm not a genwunner, but it has the best everything

Gen 3 is the best, fight me.

Lowkey love all of Hoenn's soundtrack. I ****ing love the trumpets.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Yeah I agree with gen 6 but that's because it has the lowest amount of new Pokemon and heaps of gen 1 mega forms meaning they could afford themselves more leeway with the designs.

Gen 1 introduced 151 Pokemon and nearly all of them a home runs it's funny when people bring up Pokemon like Muk like I've heard it all before it's a minuscule amount.

Of course every gen will have good and bad Pokemon anyone can find examples of both easily it's the overall that matters.

And when 30% is uninspired something is very wrong like in Gen V and Gen 7

Yea...uhhh...I'm just gonna step out because I can't even with this.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I feel like this might the case, though Orbital Gate seemed fine as it was as most of the Wii U stages were mostly ported over slight changes and with the lighting effects already there, they look a lot better without having to put much effort into it.

I hope it still comes back though.

The Wii U stages did require the least work to bring back, but Orbital Gate Assault has so many assets to it and was such a complicated stage while many of the past stages were pretty simple, so I could see why even with porting and some minor touchups it could take more effort to bring back.

 

[Iridium]

Dude, this song is criminally underrated. I hardly ever see remixes of it online compared to the 100th gen 1 battle theme remix.
I remember actually falling asleep to this song, it was that good.

Do you like the Lavender Town theme? I wonder what the composers of it thought to themselves when producing that music . . .

 

[DarkFalcon]

Lowkey love all of Hoenn's soundtrack. I ****ing love the trumpets.

If there's such a thing as a genthree'er(???) then I'm one of them.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

"Uninspired" is such a relative term, lol.

 

[Zinith]

I still have no clue why Woolly World was cut. Is there something I'm missing about that stage?

 

[WaxPython]

I'm sorry, but Gen 1 objectively had a weak story. It was mostly just walking around to gyms with an occasional Team Rocket visit. Compare that to gens 5 and 7, who tried with a story and complex characters. And what lore was there in Gen 1?

Easy Cubone being an orphan and his mother's ghost haunts the Pokemon tower because team rocket killed her. Dr Fuji being guilty as he created mewtwo in Cinnabar island working for teamrocket (confirmed)

The war they spoke about in dialogue with NPCs.

The Viridian city gym leader being the leader of team rocket.

Rival beating the champion before you etc.

It's not light on story and this was the first time gyms were a thing same with a criminal organisation that's just something they kept reusing in subsequent games making the trope stale.

And it wasn't point A to point B took quite a bit of thinking like having to get the flute to wake the sleeping snorlax etc gen v I just had to walk around same with gen 6 and 7

 

[Iridium]

If there's such a thing as a genthree'er(???) then I'm one of them.

OR/AS was so good! I really loved experiencing Hoenn because of it.

 

[Idon]

I still have no clue why Woolly World was cut. Is there something I'm missing about that stage?

Well, you see, it was Yoshi-related, so they cut it to spite you, knowing you would suffer greatly for it.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Honestly though it doesn't perfectly match Geno. It looks like the cape has yellow trim around it and is flat at the bottom.

Unless it's a redesign of Geno, does anyone have a idea of a character that describes?

 

[DarkFalcon]

OR/AS was so good! I really loved experiencing Hoenn because of it.

It has some of the issues that plagued Gen 6, and it was a pretty tame remake compared to HeartGold/SoulSilver, but being able to experience Hoenn again with the fantastic Pokemon, bright and colorful region, beautiful music...Man. Was happy.

 

[Deleted member]

Tagging @GoldenYuiitusin because Freddy in Smash came up.

How many people ******** about the idea did we get? :V

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I still have no clue why Woolly World was cut. Is there something I'm missing about that stage?

At least Super Happy Tree represents the most underrated Yoshi game, so there's that

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I can pretty much run through why every stage that isn't coming back isn't with reasonable speculation:

Planet Zebes: Probably seen as redundant with Brinstar. It really isn't at all, but that's how it's commonly looked at.
Sector Z: Literally just a bigger Corneria without the main gun.
Icicle Mountain: This stage would be a huge burden to actually implement (it's a ton of geography and art to make), and it played extremely badly in the opinion of basically everyone.
Mute City: Actually a bit of a surprising omission. Again it's a pretty big stage if you consider the total area you tour past so it would be more work than a typical stage, and it might have been viewed as largely redundant with Port Town Aero Dive.
Mushroom Kingdom I: This stage would be relatively easy to implement, but the aesthetic really overlaps Mushroom Kingdom 64 except with none of the charm. This stage is extremely low quality no matter where you sit on the casual-competitive spectrum and likely absent for that reason.
Poke Floats: A pretty big "loss", but this stage was very large and therefore a lot of work to make. Especially problematic may have been that, as a tour of the Pokemon world, it was laser focused on the first two generations as those are the only ones that existed in the Melee days.
Flat Zone 1: Absorbed by Flat Zone X
Rumble Falls: Basically the same story as Icicle Mountain. I think it's very deliberate that this stage design style disappeared in 4 and hasn't come back.
PictoChat 1: They probably felt that having the same stage twice with different transformations was worth it for the popular Pokemon Stadium stages but not for the less popular PictoChat stages. Unfortunately, I think most of the community would agree they picked the version with far inferior drawings.
Flat Zone 2: Absorbed by Flat Zone X
Rainbow Road: Touring stages are again extra work (especially one as colorful as this), and this stage has the secondary downside of just being a much worse designed touring stage than all of the others from a gameplay perspective minimizing the value of putting in the work.
Pac-Maze: The 3DS gimmick associated with this stage must be something they couldn't come up with a satisfying method to translate to single screen play.
Jungle Hijinx: The background mechanic probably made a lot of problems in a lot of ways; it's kinda a QA nightmare. Stage Morph in particular raises serious questions about how it would work on this stage.
Pyrosphere: They must have perceived that having a double dose of Ridley would be awkward and that this stage wasn't worth keeping without the boss Ridley.
Woolly World: It seemed like a strange stage to cut at first, but the yarn textures and the stage's oscillation may have been considerably more taxing on the Wii U's CPU than we realized. This stage was limited to 4 players only, and very "heavy" stages are likely cut to play nice with Stage Morph and 8 player smash being on every stage.
Orbital Gate Assault: Without a doubt the single most taxing stage on the Wii U, this stage was assuredly cut for performance issues with the features they were introducing in Smash Ultimate. Its general lack of popularity no doubt made this an easier decision.
Miiverse: Obviously the Miiverse no longer exists so this stage lost its purpose. We certainly have enough Battlefields in this game.

 

[Shroob]

*Record scratch*

So you're probably wondering how we got here.


You see, it's better than debating chair color.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Feels like I haven't even seen Yoshi outside of his brief E3 appearance and his fighter video.

 

[Zinith]

Well, you see, it was Yoshi-related, so they cut it to spite you, knowing you would suffer greatly for it.

Actually I'm more baffled than hurt. All the other Yoshi stages returned so I'm not really upset.

But I don't see the logic behind this cut

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

OR/AS was so good! I really loved experiencing Hoenn because of it.

I think that's the problem with Gen 3

ORAS was really good.

ORAS

 

[vaanrose]

"Uninspired" is such a relative term, lol.

"Uninspired" is such an uninspired criticism.

 

[Enchess]

I still have no clue why Woolly World was cut. Is there something I'm missing about that stage?

It was too fun and pretty. Plus, they realized Yoshi was getting almost enough representation, and we can't have that can we. (I'm gonna miss that stage so much)

 

[Iridium]

It has some of the issues that plagued Gen 6, and it was a pretty tame remake compared to HeartGold/SoulSilver, but being able to experience Hoenn again with the fantastic Pokemon, bright and colorful region, beautiful music...Man. Was happy.

Flying on Latios to spots in the sky to catch legendaries was really cool, and I love Latios! I even have all 28 kinds of Unown, which I did in less than an hour, thanks to him!

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Now on the discussion of Pokemon


Let's say you were the person to introduce two new Pokemon into Ultimate. One Pokemon must be from Gen 1 that would be considered the Final Gen 1 Pokemon to ever be in Smash for the next 20 years or so. The other Pokemon you introduce must be outside of Gen 1. Who would you pick?


Gen 1: Gengar

Non Gen 1: Sceptile

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Hey guys

Call me Fox Mulder

View attachment 157422

Because I want to believe

I swear if any of this really does turn out to be correct I'm gonna lose my head.

I know the man's left hints before, but this would just be beyond insane. Not in a bad way, but I'd still be flabbergasted, lol.