Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pyra]

I wouldn't say guaranteed. Much like how that probably homeless intern leaked Castlevania music, it only made 99% certainty and we wouldn't know until his reveal. Geno is in the same boat, 99% until we see a new Direct.

Leaky Intern for Smash

Sakurai gave his own personal thoughts of who he wanted in the roster. Something those characters you mentioned never had the privilege.

Sakurai can want whoever he wants, but if he doesn't get permission to use them he can't.
This is coming from someone who thinks Geno is very likely-

He's not guaranteed at all. Just because it seems like they're picking characters that have been wanted for AGES, doesn't mean that's actually what they're doing, or that they'll pick up every single one of them

 

[Cosmic77]

Assuming the leak is actually true, the whole point of the idea is that it's being done to shore up some of the missing gen representation in Smash and lessen the gen 1 centralization, as that's the big fan complaint with Pokemon's playable roster in Smash, while Sakurai doesn't want to devote the resources of two newcomers to Pokemon (especially as he's already bringing back three of them), so an Echo is necessary and thus the likes of Zoroark, Chandelure, or any other gen 5 pokemon that would require being a unique character isn't feasible.

Except opting for a Gen 3 Pokemon would mean Sakurai would have to skip out on Gen 7 and possibly hold off on Gen 8.

Unless we get a minimum of two unique Pokemon on the base roster, there's not really a scenario where this problem gets fixed.

 

[New_Dumal]

Promoving gen 7 is not that important to this game because it will launch so close to a gen 8.
If they want to use a Pokemon character as marketing, they should wait for DLC era and release a gen 8 Pokemon.

 

[Starbound]

Lowkey though, I'm fine with Gardevoir in the game. I recognize that she----it's a popular Pokemon.


My biggest question is "Would The Pokemon Company actually want to have it in the game and not a new Gen7 'mon?"


I recognize that this game is heavily focused on fanservice picks, but the Pokemon Company is a business, and with ALL THIS GEN7 ****, I have a hard time imagining that they'd skip out and go backwards.

I don't think they'd have a problem with Gardevoir because they recognize the popularity.

I do see them having a problem with the... other one in that leak because they wouldn't understand why.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Lowkey though, I'm fine with Gardevoir in the game. I recognize that she----it's a popular Pokemon.


My biggest question is "Would The Pokemon Company actually want to have it in the game and not a new Gen7 'mon?"


I recognize that this game is heavily focused on fanservice picks, but the Pokemon Company is a business, and with ALL THIS GEN7 ****, I have a hard time imagining that they'd skip out and go backwards.

I can imagine, but only if GF insists on waiting for Gen 8. Which would be a big loss as Alola has all sorts of great Pokemon but it could happen.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

I think people are being too harsh on Square. Sure there is limited music but that could easily boil down to Sakurai wanting to secure other things.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Except opting for a Gen 3 Pokemon would mean Sakurai would have to skip out on Gen 7 and possibly hold off on Gen 8.

Unless we get a minimum of two unique Pokemon on the base roster, there's not really a scenario where this problem gets fixed.

Gen 7 could be feasibly held off until DLC, and by doing so this time he would get to pick which pokemon is actually most popular from the gen, instead of trying to get lucky for a third straight time like he did with Greninja and Lucario prior (while a popular gen 7 pokemon would also be a sure hit for DLC). At least that's the logic I would see behind the possibility of Gardevoir + Gothielle Echo actually being true.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

On the topic of Gothitelle, I wnat to go over the moveset differences from Gardevoir

Gothitelle doesn't have a secondary typing but it does have access to dark type moves, both status and offensive.
Gardevoir on the other hand has more fairy and grass attacks.

Not sure how it would translate but I'm imagining effect swap arounds like Ganondorf and falcon or Samus and Dark Samus.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Wait, did the “datamine” leaker EXPLICITLY say Richter was in instead of Simon? If so we can definitely discard it as bs

 

[Will]

Leaky Intern for Smash

INTERN IAN LEAKS THE SCENE

Promoving gen 7 is not that important to this game because it will launch so close to a gen 8.
If they want to use a Pokemon character as marketing, they should wait for DLC era and release a gen 8 Pokemon.

Whatever you say, director of marketing at NoA

 

[Shroob]

On the topic of Gothitelle, I wnat to go over the moveset differences from Gardevoir

Gothitelle doesn't have a secondary typing but it does have access to dark type moves, both status and offensive.
Gardevoir on the other hand has more fairy and grass attacks.

Not sure how it would translate but I'm imagining effect swap arounds like Ganondorf and falcon or Samus and Dark Samus.

Gothitelle would definitely need a unique FS.

If Gardevoir's would be Mega Garde, Gothitelle can't Mega-Evolve.

 

[Pyra]

3: Plusle + Minun
5: Zoroark
7: Buzzwole

I'm one of the people that doesn't really want unique fighter DLC as much as other things that could be DLC, but chances are there will be some, and I could actually see Gen 3 and 5 rounded out via the DLC.
Plumin and Zoroark wouldn't be too bizarre to me

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Geno isn't exactly guaranteed, especially considering that the lack of Final Fantasy remixes is not a good sign for anything new that's Square Enix's property.

I agree with this, BUT if this is the same type of deal from back in Smash 4 DLC where Squares like “Alright you get Cloud, only two original songs, and yeah sure you can have this Geno character your fans want so bad” then we can look at his DLC costume almost the same as the King K. Rool costume hinting at his inclusion. (Although I wouldn’t be surprised if he came back as just a Mii Costume)

Also if he does join Im willing to bet that he will be the last revealed.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Wait, did the “datamine” leaker EXPLICITLY say Richter was in instead of Simon? If so we can definitely discard it as bs

No, it was just vuage enough.

It could have been WIP code that was testing Richter out by putting him over Simon before it was ready.

I want this leak Dead or Alive ASAP.
This Schrodinger's Cat situation is killing me.

 

[Pyra]

Wait, did the “datamine” leaker EXPLICITLY say Richter was in instead of Simon? If so we can definitely discard it as bs

Yes. He said "right IP, wrong character".

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

I agree with this, BUT if this is the same type of deal from back in Smash 4 DLC where Squares like “Alright you get Cloud, only two original songs, and yeah sure you can have this Geno character your fans want so bad” then we can look at his DLC costume almost the same as the King K. Rool costume hinting at his inclusion. (Although I wouldn’t be surprised if he came back as just a Mii Costume)

Also if he does join Im willing to bet that he will be the last revealed.

Yeah Geno would definitely be the last character reveal unless Banjo Kazooie made it in

 

[Starbound]

I'm wary of this one. Meta Knight already has an alternate color that resembles Galacta Knight (It even has an altered visor shape to resemble a "+"). And from what we've seen so far, they've tried to make sure that similar characters typically do not share too many visual similarities lest they become indistinguishable during battle. (Such as Samus losing her Dark Samus color because it would be hard to tell the two apart at a distance)

And Soren doesn't use swords, so he wouldn't be even remotely sensible as an Echo fighter for Robin. You'd think they'd use Celica at that point.

Fair point on the Galacta Knight costume, though I do think it is possible to differentiate Galacta Knight due to the different shaped weapon, white wings and the shield (if it makes it in). I haven't played Kirby in a long time, but an image search is telling me that Galacta Knight lacks a cape, another visual difference. Visual differences aren't that big of a deal for echoes, as Marth and Lucina, in default colors, are basically identical. Dark Pit and Pit have costumes that mirror each other, with the only difference being wing colors.

As for Soren, the leaker made a point of saying Soren's sword attacks are reanimated to be dagger attacks, referencing a possible weapon for him in FE9.

 

[BeardyBennett]

Hey folks. Any new leaks or strong speculation trends? Are we debating DS's gender again? I miss those days

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Alright, let's play a little game here.

Assuming the 103 stages we have is the final stage roster (which is what I personally believe), try to come up with a list of feasible newcomers (aka don't say Waluigi or other stuff that's already deconfirmed) that can bulk up the roster without needing to add a new stage. That means...

• No new third-party franchises since they always come with a new stage.
• If a first-party franchise is niche or obscure enough, it doesn't need a stage in this scenario, so it counts. (that's to make it easier, though it's not without precedent)

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Gothitelle would definitely need a unique FS.

If Gardevoir's would be Mega Garde, Gothitelle can't Mega-Evolve.

I could see a unique Psychic move like Magic Room done in a creative way.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The Pokemon Company would force them to make Qwilfish a fighter before they would allow Gothitelle.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

How many assist trophies did they say would be in and how many have been revealed?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Hey folks. Any new leaks or strong speculation trends? Are we debating DS's gender again? I miss those days

Well we have four leaks that survived the direct blowout and we're trying to figure out who's right and who got lucky.

Here's the original sorce for the Gardevoir/Gothitelle one, in case any one was curious https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422689663/

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

How many assist trophies did they say would be in and how many have been revealed?

They said around 50, iirc.

There's exactly 40 so far if I counted right.

 

[Shroob]

Well we have four leaks that survived the direct blowout and we're trying to figure out who's right and who got lucky.

Here's the original sorce for the Gardevoir/Gothitelle one, in case any one was curious https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422689663/

Four being Verg, Loz, Neogaf and this one?

 

[Will]

Hey folks. Any new leaks or strong speculation trends? Are we debating DS's gender again? I miss those days

Technically Dark Samus' sex is female, it copied Samus' DNA and her suit. The description in Prime Echoes also refers to DS as a her.

Prime 3 also has text that describes Pirates worshipping DS as a goddess. Not a God. Goddess.

 

[BeardyBennett]

Fair point on the Galacta Knight costume, though I do think it is possible to differentiate Galacta Knight due to the different shaped weapon, white wings and the shield (if it makes it in). I haven't played Kirby in a long time, but an image search is telling me that Galacta Knight lacks a cape, another visual difference. Visual differences aren't that big of a deal for echoes, as Marth and Lucina, in default colors, are basically identical. Dark Pit and Pit have costumes that mirror each other, with the only difference being wing colors.

As for Soren, the leaker made a point of saying Soren's sword attacks are reanimated to be dagger attacks, referencing a possible weapon for him in FE9.

That's splitting hairs though. Remember this is supposed to hardcore fans AND grandparents who don't know a Sonic from a Samus. A lot of people might not know the difference between the two Knights, and having them look so identical with that Meta color would not work for the casual audience.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

They said around 50, iirc.

There's exactly 40 so far if I counted right.

Can cofirm. They said over 50 and 40 have been show. How many missing Smash 4 trophies left is the real question tho.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Can cofirm. They said over 50 and 40 have been show. How many missing Smash 4 trophies left is the real question tho.

Let me check. I'll be back with a full list.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

They said around 50, iirc.

There's exactly 40 so far if I counted right.

So the assist trophy purge isn't over yet though huh?

 

[BeardyBennett]

Technically Dark Samus' sex is female, it copied Samus' DNA and her suit. The description in Prime Echoes also refers to DS as a her.

Prime 3 also has text that describes Pirates worshipping DS as a goddess. Not a God. Goddess.

Lol I meant it as a joke as that debate was incredibly unnecessary and lasted far longer than it ever needed to.

 

[Fatmanonice]

How many assist trophies did they say would be in and how many have been revealed?

They said more than 50 so probably 55-ish. Currently we're up to exactly 40.

Edit: 'd

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Four being Verg, Loz, Neogaf and this one?

Yeah.

All we can agree on is 2 to four brand newcomers remaining along with load of Echos. Among characters will be Isabelle (Echo or not) and at least one Pokemon.

 

[Zinith]

I just want one of those ATs to be from the Yoshi series. To think there's only 10 or so of them not confirmed yet...

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

note that samus lost her dark samus colour scheme to make way for dark samus, assuming galacta knight is real, the original costume we have seen will be removed for sure.

Also I would imagine when the pics were taken it they were definitely sure they didnt want to go through with galacta knight, in the space of 2 months when im sure everyone is busy getting the game ready, could they really change their mind in that little time?

 

[UberMadman]

Hey guys, I made a strawpoll to ask people what music should accompany Shadow if he eventually gets revealed for Smash Ultimate. Please answer if you’re a fan of Sonic music!

http://www.strawpoll.me/16254412

As for the “datamine leak”, I’m shocked people are still giving it the time of day. So far, no one has managed to explain why Simon wasn’t included in this “demo” but Richter was. It reeks of someone trying to be contrarian and include a bunch of unconventional picks instead of the expected ones, and the only reason he got Richter right at all is because we also got Simon on top of him, which he didn’t mention because, again, he was being contrarian. Some of the characters on that list aren’t bad picks at all, (like Gardevoir,) but there’s no way in hell I can see all of that being correct, especially considering the supposed circumstances he was able to obtain this information. If he was in the position he was in to have solo access to the demo long enough to datamine it, then he would have to be sufficiently high up enough in the development hierarchy to know the characters to begin with.

 

[Starbound]

Alright, let's play a little game here.

Assuming the 103 stages we have is the final stage roster (which is what I personally believe), try to come up with a list of feasible newcomers (aka don't say Waluigi or other stuff that's already deconfirmed) that can bulk up the roster without needing to add a new stage. That means...

• No new third-party franchises since they always come with a new stage.
• If a first-party franchise is niche or obscure enough, it doesn't need a stage in this scenario, so it counts. (that's to make it easier, though it's not without precedent)

- Paper Mario (his stage is already there
- Twili Midna (Bridge of Eldin)
- Impa (Skyloft)
- Tetra (Pirate Ship)
- Any BotW champions (Plateau Tower)
- Skull Kid (Great Bay)
- Peppy/Slippy (Corneria/Venom)
- Black Shadow (Mute City SNES)
- Louie (Distant Planet)
- Celica (Castle Seige)
- Isabelle (Smashville)
- Tails (Green Hill Zone)
- Gardevoir (Kalos Pokemon League; she is Diantha's signature Pokemon)

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Damn so Skull Kid is still vulnerable. I didn't even know I wanted him till literally two days ago which is dumb because he is my favorite Nintendo villain.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Can cofirm. They said over 50 and 40 have been show. How many missing Smash 4 trophies left is the real question tho.

Let me check. I'll be back with a full list.

That's pretty good news, although there's no telling how many more characters will get past the next AT massacre.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Wait, what's going on? I'm reading something about a datamine leak of sorts?