Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[New_Dumal]

I see people here really not into Gothitelle.
It's funny that now that I got a Dk newcomer, I honestly don't care much for everything else character-wise.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Gardevoir and Gothitelle would finally give Smash 3rd and 5th gen Pokemon reps but I don't know if Sakurai actually cares about this sort of thing. Gardevoir is really popular but Gothitelle isn't even on the radar. If they both got in, I feel like it would be more of a way to shoehorn in more girl reps even though there's still a good number of plausible ones left like Isabelle, Dixie, and Pyra and arguably Impa, Medusa, and maybe even Tetra and Shantae. Speaking of Tetra, kind of had a weird epiphany today that she could probably pass as a Toon Link Echo with a few adjustments, especially since they have the same dimensions. Now I can't decide if I would prefer her or Impa as possible Zelda Echo additions...

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Playing Ashley's Song through the Wario Ware Gold record player.
Now I'm bummed Ashley Got Deconfirmed.

 

[Cosmic77]

I've got an even better idea as to how we can represent Gen 3 and Gen 5.

We make Gardevoir a unique character, skip Gothitelle entirely, and add Zoroark as a unique character instead because he's totally worth it.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So far combining the demo miner, Verge, loz18, subtle hints from the direct, a "few" newcomers left, and if the stage total is set in stone this is what I think is left of the roster:

•Gardevoir
•Skull Kid
•Geno
•Dixie Kong (E)
•Impa (E)
•Isabelle (E)
•Shadow (E)
•Gothitelle (E)
•Ken (E)

*If this were the case I would feel DLC at this point would be a given, especially with the blurred out menu option to the right completely ignored in the direct thats probably a shop icon, and the fact that theres atleast 6 available slots on the stage select screen. (Assuming they dont make a seperate tab for DLC stages like done in the past).

Outside of big characters disconfirmed so far (Waluigi, Ashley, Krystal, Lyn) that looks like a solid roster to me. All it's really missing is Bandanna Dee and a brand new Pokemon. Then again, I could see Gen 7 Pokemon being one of the first DLCs.

(Also Roll as Mega Man Echo but we can't have everything)

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Just saying but if we're going to start considering the demo miner leak legit, can we also take the GAF leak more seriously for predicting Simon, K. Rool and Chrom as Roy's echo?

Mostly because I can't deal with talking about Gothitelle every 5 minutes.

That one seems iffy to me with Galacta Knight already a Meta Knight alt costume, and Issac just brings up the recent argument of if we are seeing anymore stages past 103. Hard to see any new franchise coming in without a new stage.

 

[Starbound]

I've got an even better idea as to how we can represent Gen 3 and Gen 5.

We make Gardevoir a unique character, skip Gothitelle entirely, and add Zoroark as a unique character instead because he's totally worth it.

Or we can go extra weird with Chandelure

Hell, even Hydreigon would be sweet.

Just please no goth loli towers.

 

[Will]

Is the demo digital or on a cartridge?
If it's on a cartridge, why can't he take a picture of the cartridge itself?

 

[Polan]

Saying that Richter was the CV rep instead of Simon already killed that leak off for me. I find it more ludicrous though that the leaker expects us to believe that nintendo let people fiddle around in the code of a demo build of an unreleased game without hitting them with a hundred NDAs. like c'mon bro. make your story more believable.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I've got an even better idea as to how we can represent Gen 3 and Gen 5.

We make Gardevoir a unique character, skip Gothitelle entirely, and add Zoroark as a unique character instead because he's totally worth it.

Wouldn't Mind Zoroark. That'd be a pretty cool choice.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

I feel like datamine rumor could have been a joke that was more realistic than it thought it was.
"Simon? Nah, Richter, because Dracula X is the best Castlevania game."

"Three Links? How about Dark Samus and another Mario."

"Ridley's in? K Rool is the new Ridley... K Rool is coming guys!!"

"Haven't seen Gardevoir yet... Gen 7? Nah. Gen 3. And an Echo from 5. Lulz."

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Just saying but if we're going to start considering the demo miner leak legit, can we also take the GAF leak more seriously for predicting Simon, K. Rool and Chrom as Roy's echo?

Mostly because I can't deal with talking about Gothitelle every 5 minutes.

Which GAF leak was that again?

And on the topic of relevance and demand being needed for Echos... he happened. I know it was in another dev cycle but it's still a thing that happened.

 

[Luminario]

True. But would be a better alph-olimar thing.

Nah, Hilda doesn't suit new Zelda's more upbeat animations and personality. Adding her as an echo allows people to play as a character with TP Zelda's more regal and reserved nature.

Gothitelle has legs, but they're stubby and hidden under it's "dress".
View attachment 157160
And I suppose the reasoning would be that both Gardevoir and Gothitelle are feminine looking psychic types, while Alakazam's body type is different.

It's still so FUNNY seeing Gothitelle's stubbly legs. Why did they design it like that?

I'd like the leak to be real. Gardevoir has been a consistently popular Pokemon ever since Gen 3, with a large role in Gen 6 as the champions lead Pokemon, one of the first mega evos show, and one of the first shown off in Pokken. Even as an echo Gothitelle is an unusual choice, cause it's another Gen 5 Pokemon that tried to recreate a previous Pokemon's popularity and didn't succeed, but I like it so I want it in Smash.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

We can all agree Geno is guaranteed right? I mean Sakurai himself wants him in. You literally can't argue against that.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Or we can go extra weird with Chandelure

Hell, even Hydreigon would be sweet.

Just please no goth loli towers.

Lmao i agree it would be a hard pill to swallow, honestly im trying to imagine kirbys hats for Gardevoir and Gothitelle.

 

[Noipoi]

Or we can go extra weird with Chandelure

Hell, even Hydreigon would be sweet.

Just please no goth loli towers.

Fun fact! Gothitelle's first form is Gothita. Gothita's name comes from the words "Goth" and "Lolita".
It was literally designed to be a goth loli!

 

[perfectchaos83]

We can all agree Geno is guaranteed right? I mean Sakurai himself wants him in. You literally can't argue against that.

You can if Square wants nothing to do with Geno being playable.

 

[Shroob]

Gardevoir and Gothitelle would finally give Smash 3rd and 5th gen Pokemon reps but I don't know if Sakurai actually cares about this sort of thing. Gardevoir is really popular but Gothitelle isn't even on the radar. If they both got in, I feel like it would be more of a way to shoehorn in more girl reps even though there's still a good number of plausible ones left like Isabelle, Dixie, and Pyra and arguably Impa, Medusa, and maybe even Tetra and Shantae. Speaking of Tetra, kind of had a weird epiphany today that she could probably pass as a Toon Link Echo with a few adjustments, especially since they have the same dimensions. Now I can't decide if I would prefer her or Impa as possible Zelda Echo additions...

"Did you just assume a fictional animal's gender?"

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I feel like datamine rumor could have been a joke that was more realistic than it thought it was.
"Simon? Nah, Richter, because Dracula X is the best Castlevania game."

"Three Links? How about Dark Samus and another Mario."

"Ridley's in? K Rool is the new Ridley... K Rool is coming guys!!"

"Haven't seen Gardevoir yet... Gen 7? Nah. Gen 3. And an Echo from 5. Lulz."

Entirely possible, and maybe even probably. Unfortunately, there's no real way to know until we get the Pokemon reveal(s) or someone leaks the code for real.

We can all agree Geno is a guaranteed right? I mean Sakurai himself wants him in. You literally can't argue against that.

Not guaranteed but he's finally as likely as we all THOUGHT he was in the forgotten times (Brawl hype)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

We can all agree Geno is guaranteed right? I mean Sakurai himself wants him in. You literally can't argue against that.

Geno isn't exactly guaranteed, especially considering that the lack of Final Fantasy remixes is not a good sign for anything new that's Square Enix's property.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

You can if Square wants nothing to do with Geno being playable.

Theres no reason for that to be the case though. Square gave the ok for Cloud again and I don't even think they care what happens to Geno.

 

[Noipoi]

We can all agree Geno is guaranteed right? I mean Sakurai himself wants him in. You literally can't argue against that.

I'm expecting him, but nothings guaranteed mate.

Lmao i agree it would be a hard pill to swallow, honestly im trying to imagine kirbys hats for Gardevoir and Gothitelle.

Kirby's Gardevoir hat could be Gardevoir's "hair", and his Gothitelle hat could be a black cap with one of it's white bows.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I don't think Sakurai or anyone at Nintendo cares like even a little about having "reps" for every generation of Pokemon. I do think having sufficiently many female characters is considered important; I think we heard some statement about how part of why Sheik and ZSS were split out (though there were several reasons) was to make the number of female characters in Smash 4 more visible. I have no doubt that being more gender neutral is why the other trainer you can use for the Pokemon Trainer is the female playable character instead of Blue. However, Gardevoir and Gothitelle wouldn't address this issue; like most Pokemon, they could be male or female and it's not terribly obvious in-game which is which just from looking. Even when we do have a tell. like how we know most Pikachu are male but Pikachu Libre is female thanks to the tail shape, it doesn't really... do anything. I think most people who care about the genders of characters in a game like this are really just focused on the human or at least human-like characters, and the Pokemon as animals don't really matter one way or another in that regard.

 

[Cosmic77]

We can all agree Geno is a guaranteed right? I mean Sakurai himself wants him in. You literally can't argue against that.

No, because Waluigi, Takamaru, and Ashley were all seen as extremely likely, yet all three are still stuck as ATs.

There are plenty of popular characters swimming around in the sea. Geno is just one of many.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I've got an even better idea as to how we can represent Gen 3 and Gen 5.

We make Gardevoir a unique character, skip Gothitelle entirely, and add Zoroark as a unique character instead because he's totally worth it.

Or we can go extra weird with Chandelure

Hell, even Hydreigon would be sweet.

Just please no goth loli towers.

Assuming the leak is actually true, the whole point of the idea is that it's being done to shore up some of the missing gen representation in Smash and lessen the gen 1 centralization, as that's the big fan complaint with Pokemon's playable roster in Smash, while Sakurai doesn't want to devote the resources of two newcomers to Pokemon (especially as he's already bringing back three of them), so an Echo is necessary and thus the likes of Zoroark, Chandelure, or any other gen 5 pokemon that would require being a unique character isn't feasible.

 

[Shroob]

I'm expecting him, but nothings guaranteed mate.

Kirby's Gardevoir hat could be Gardevoir's "hair", and his Gothitelle hat could be a black cap with one of it's white bows.

I'm having a horrible thought of Kirby growing those 6 things on the side of his head, but instead of being black like Gothitelle's, they're Kirby-fleshtone.

 

[Starbound]

Which GAF leak was that again?

GAF leak predicted these newcomers as of :
- Simon
- K. Rool
- Isaac
- Monster Hunter
- Terra (Final Fantasy 6)
- Another Namco Character (speculated to be Heihachi)
- Prince Sable (the retro character I guess)

and these echoes:
- Chrom (Roy)
- Soren (Robin)
- Felix (Isaac)
- Ken (Ryu)
- Shadow (Sonic)
- Isabelle (Villager)
- Galacta Knight (Meta Knight)

They were aware of two more echoes, but was not given their names (turned out to be Richter and Dark Samus). See this post to see why it should be given some attention.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Theres no reason for that to be the case though. Square gave the ok for Cloud again and I don't even think they care what happens to Geno.

I'd say there's plenty. I don't see SE being ok with Geno being playable over dozens of other characters they own and can actually profit far greater from them being in Smash.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Theres no reason for that to be the case though. Square gave the ok for Cloud again and I don't even think they care what happens to Geno.

"No reason" isn't a reason to stop Square from being difficult.
Honestly, we're all suprised Konami came around this time so maybe the good luck with getting big game companies on sane days will continue.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm having a horrible thought of Kirby growing those 6 things on the side of his head, but instead of being black like Gothitelle's, they're Kirby-fleshtone.

Oh that's disturbing.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Theres no reason for that to be the case though. Square gave the ok for Cloud again and I don't even think they care what happens to Geno.

The company is still being rather stubborn with its BGM tracks though, since we literally have no Final Fantasy remixes, and the lack of Final Fantasy Assist Trophies doesn't help matters either. Copyright is easily the biggest reason for this dilemma.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

83 Fighters (Older Roster, slightly edited)

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

No, because Waluigi, Takamaru, and Ashley were all seen as extremely likely, yet all three are still stuck as ATs.

There are plenty of popular characters swimming around in the sea. Geno is just one of many.

Sakurai gave his own personal thoughts of who he wanted in the roster. Something those characters you mentioned never had the privilege.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm having a horrible thought of Kirby growing those 6 things on the side of his head, but instead of being black like Gothitelle's, they're Kirby-fleshtone.

My version has Kirby as he is, but with black lipstick. The memes write themselves

GAF leak predicted these newcomers as of :
- Simon
- K. Rool
- Isaac
- Monster Hunter
- Terra (Final Fantasy 6)
- Another Namco Character (speculated to be Heihachi)
- Prince Sable (the retro character I guess)

and these echoes:
- Chrom (Roy)
- Soren (Robin)
- Felix (Isaac)
- Ken (Ryu)
- Shadow (Sonic)
- Isabelle (Villager)
- Galacta Knight (Meta Knight)

They were aware of two more echoes, but was not given their names (turned out to be Richter and Dark Samus). See this post to see why it should be given some attention.

Thanks. Galacta Knight makes me kinda iffy but less so that the major iffy point on the Goth Data mine (where was Simon?) so for the purposes of this thread we must treat them both as equally valid.

It's gonna be a fun two to four months.

 

[New_Dumal]

I don't think Sakurai or anyone at Nintendo cares like even a little about having "reps" for every generation of Pokemon. I do think having sufficiently many female characters is considered important; I think we heard some statement about how part of why Sheik and ZSS were split out (though there were several reasons) was to make the number of female characters in Smash 4 more visible. I have no doubt that being more gender neutral is why the other trainer you can use for the Pokemon Trainer is the female playable character instead of Blue. However, Gardevoir and Gothitelle wouldn't address this issue; like most Pokemon, they could be male or female and it's not terribly obvious in-game which is which just from looking. Even when we do have a tell. like how we know most Pikachu are male but Pikachu Libre is female thanks to the tail shape, it doesn't really... do anything. I think most people who care about the genders of characters in a game like this are really just focused on the human or at least human-like characters, and the Pokemon as animals don't really matter one way or another in that regard.

You can't compare Pikachu and Gardevoir.
I know it's stupid, but Gardevoir and Gothitelle were design with popular "feminine traits" (quoted, because I think it's a horrible generalization of gender). It's even one of the reasons Gardevoir is so popular.
While it's weird, you can't ignore the fact that Gardevoir and Gothitelle would count as female characters in the mind of most people. You can't say the same about Pikachu Libre.

 

[Will]

We can all agree Geno is guaranteed right? I mean Sakurai himself wants him in. You literally can't argue against that.

I wouldn't say guaranteed. Much like how that probably homeless intern leaked Castlevania music, it only made 99% certainty and we wouldn't know until his reveal. Geno is in the same boat, 99% until we see a new Direct.

 

[Shroob]

Lowkey though, I'm fine with Gardevoir in the game. I recognize that she----it's a popular Pokemon.


My biggest question is "Would The Pokemon Company actually want to have it in the game and not a new Gen7 'mon?"


I recognize that this game is heavily focused on fanservice picks, but the Pokemon Company is a business, and with ALL THIS GEN7 ****, I have a hard time imagining that they'd skip out and go backwards.

 

[Noipoi]

When it comes to the Gardevoir and Gothitelle leak, I believe this quote says it best for me.

"A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one."
Palplatine.
A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

On the CEO datamine "leak", is there perhaps the chance it is legitimate, however the guy got his information from other means and simply put in a bull**** story of how he got it to throw people off his trail?

 

[NintendoKnight]

GAF leak predicted these newcomers as of :
- Simon
- K. Rool
- Isaac
- Monster Hunter
- Terra (Final Fantasy 6)
- Another Namco Character (speculated to be Heihachi)
- Prince Sable (the retro character I guess)

and these echoes:
- Chrom (Roy)
- Soren (Robin)
- Felix (Isaac)
- Ken (Ryu)
- Shadow (Sonic)
- Isabelle (Villager)
- Galacta Knight (Meta Knight)

They were aware of two more echoes, but was not given their names (turned out to be Richter and Dark Samus). See this post to see why it should be given some attention.

I'm wary of this one. Meta Knight already has an alternate color that resembles Galacta Knight (It even has an altered visor shape to resemble a "+"). And from what we've seen so far, they've tried to make sure that similar characters typically do not share too many visual similarities lest they become indistinguishable during battle. (Such as Samus losing her Dark Samus color because it would be hard to tell the two apart at a distance)

And Soren doesn't use swords, so he wouldn't be even remotely sensible as an Echo fighter for Robin. You'd think they'd use Celica at that point.