Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Troykv]

MalcolmBelmont

I finally finished it!

Spoiler

 

[Icedragonadam]

DaybreakHorizon I looked at your document listing how many times a character appeared in a 4chan rumor and you put Lloyd twice in your character list and probably some others as well.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Re - Sora: Huh, interesting. Granted, I hate putting chances on Third-Party characters because they're always a fishy situation; this is a habit I picked up from the Brawl days however so nobody has to join me in on this.

Also, I'm curious to see who your list is. Bar new franchises and echos, I'm down to like... 3 characters lmao. I'd have a hard time squandering up all the supporting characters that could work. Though, you all know me, I wouldn't have that hard of a time.

Speaking of Third-Parties, curious to hear what you think of Chrono.


Legal standings kind-of matter to still be discussed. All I'm wondering is who own's it. It probably won't change anything, but it's absolutely worth discovering if we can.

For one, I'd say the field for third parties has definitely changed between Brawl and now, but tempering expectations is always a healthy habit. Hype responsibly everyone.

In terms of Nintendo characters left, I'd say Isabelle, Bandana Dee, and the Chorus Men are all essential. Isaac and Chibi-Robo follow them, being from smaller series that are still somewhat prominent. Rex & Pyra, a Gen 7 Mon, and Spring-Man round out the list of "Nintendo Stars" that I see being large enough to warrant inclusion. Dixie Kong comes close, but modern Donkey Kong Country is repped well with just DK and Diddy, and K. Rool represents classic Donkey Kong Country perfectly. I am rooting for a duo of Dixie Kong and Kiddy Kong though, because I think that'd be a fun character to play as.

It's a hot take, but I believe that Mario and Legend of Zelda are represented perfectly. Mario has all of the major players with Daisy being added, and Legend of Zelda has everything from classic to modern represented now. The "3 Links" complaint is understandable, but that's because the major players in the Legend of Zelda series barely change, if ever, compared to series like Fire Emblem where the major players are constantly changing. Legend of Zelda and Mario are also well represented with stages and items, more so than many other series.

Chrono would be an odd pick, but I'm definitely not opposed to him. My only concern is that his series is long dead, and Chrono Trigger hasn't really been talked about in a long time. If a remake for Switch is on the way then I could definitely see it, but as of right now I'd rate his chances around the same as a Dragon Quest or Bravely Default Character.

For Square Enix, I'd say another Final Fantasy character is more likely than we may think. It's that big of a series that it could warrant 2 unique characters. Sakurai said that 1/3 - 1/4 of Final Fantasy character mentions were Cloud, but I find it plausible to believe that Terra was mentioned more than that, as she was seen as the most prominent Nintendo-related Final Fantasy character. Lara Croft is a dark horse pick, but would be a great hype-raiser, especially for the casual crowd. Dragon Quest isn't as likely as we may think, as it's not particularly popular in the West. Bravely Default isn't particularly popular anywhere, so I wouldn't expect to see anything from that series either. Kingdom Hearts and Geno are special cases, and can't really be placed. Geno seems likely, but for all we know Square is keeping him locked in a vault, or Sakurai believes a Mii Gunner costume is enough.

DaybreakHorizon I looked at your document listing how many times a character appeared in a 4chan rumor and you put Lloyd twice in your character list and probably some others as well.

Supposed leaks with Lloyd in them? You already know the two. The Japan and Inbox "leaks" are the only two living leaks listing him.

 

[P.Kat]

Nomura would definitely do a great recommendation to Disney to trust Sakurai for sure. See, this is exactly why I prefer (and think) Sora has just as many chances (or more imo) than Geno. If KH3 is not getting to Switch or the 1.5+2.5, we still got some KH games on Nintendo (plenty of them actually), and I'm sure Disney WANTS KH to keep catching the attention of everyone EVERYWHERE. What better place to do that than the best crossover fighting game ever? beats me. This is why Sora is one of my most wanted newcomers. I can totally see it happen, despite how tall the Disney wall seems to many.

Don't forget that most of the games on Nintendo are canon too. I definitely think that Sora is more likely than people believe, and why he's also one of my most wanted characters too.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

View attachment 157152
Here ya go.

Shadow
Viridi
Scorpion (Lara Croft is second)
Amy and Tails...and Captain Toad...and Lyn...and not Waluigi
Reggie
Birdo...just for her luls
None cause I got nothing
More Mario and Kid Icarus

 

[Idon]

Don't forget that most of the games on Nintendo are canon to. I definitely think that Sora is more likely than people believe, and why he's also one of my most wanted characters too.

All of them are canon.
Yes, even the mobile only online one.

 

[Mc.Rad]

All of them are canon.
Yes, even the mobile only online one.

I still kind of think that it be wierd for a partially Disney character to get in...

Would this mean that we could see Mickey Mouse in Smash?

 

[New_Dumal]

Has anoyone linked Verge or loz18 to the supposed leaker who datamined the Smash Demo and found what seemed to be Gardevoir and Gothitelle as her echo. I would like to know their opinions as the guy apparently found Richter in the data as early as July.

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422689663/

This leak is quite strong.
Ritcher as a clone was something almost nobody would bet on. A echo of a third party.
Another thing, Nintendo absolutely would care more about hiding Simon than most of characters.
What colds this one is that K.Rool is explicit here, I don't see why would they hide Simon but let K.Rool in.
Anyway, it has Dark Samus, Ritcher and K.Rool. I think this is impressive. Maybe a lucky guess, but a very lucky one at least.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I still kind of think that it be wierd for a partially Disney character to get in...

Would this mean that we could see Mickey Mouse in Smash?

Disney doesn't really care about Sora, but Mickey?

 

[Icedragonadam]

Supposed leaks with Lloyd in them? You already know the two. The Japan and Inbox "leaks" are the only two living leaks listing him.

No I mean you listed Lloyd twice on the left side.

 

[Zinith]

All of them are canon.
Yes, even the mobile only online one.

Well, there was that one mobile game in 2005. That ain't canon

 

[drag0nscythe]

This leak is quite strong.
Ritcher as a clone was something almost nobody would bet on. A echo of a third party.
Another thing, Nintendo absolutely would care more about hiding Simon than most of characters.
What colds this one is that K.Rool is explicit here, I don't see why would they hide Simon but let K.Rool in.
Anyway, it has Dark Samus, Ritcher and K.Rool. I think this is impressive. Maybe a lucky guess, but a very lucky one at least.

I cannot see them. Why them of all choices?

 

[Will]

Like you seriously think that someone was able to sneak a demo off premises to datamine it?

Like seriously?

That alone is the grounds for just writing it off as a fan who wanted some attention and just put his/her wants.

Good man or lady did get some of his/her wants though. Good for him/her.

People have walked off with stuff like that before. It's not entirely impossible to happen, but man Nintendo Ninjas would come for your head.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I cannot see them. Why them of all choices?

You see...
Some people are...
Wierd

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Why Gardevoir?

Do me a favor and look up "Gardevoir fanart" and that'll tell you exactly why.

I don't like it, but it is a very popular 'mon.

 

[Pakky]

Just reminded me about Ulala, I'm on it!

Spoiler: Ulala

Done.

 

[P.Kat]

For one, I'd say the field for third parties has definitely changed between Brawl and now, but tempering expectations is always a healthy habit. Hype responsibly everyone.

In terms of Nintendo characters left, I'd say Isabelle, Bandana Dee, and the Chorus Men are all essential. Isaac and Chibi-Robo follow them, being from smaller series that are still somewhat prominent. Rex & Pyra, a Gen 7 Mon, and Spring-Man round out the list of "Nintendo Stars" that I see being large enough to warrant inclusion. Dixie Kong comes close, but modern Donkey Kong Country is repped well with just DK and Diddy, and K. Rool represents classic Donkey Kong Country perfectly. I am rooting for a duo of Dixie Kong and Kiddy Kong though, because I think that'd be a fun character to play as. It's a hot take, but I believe that Mario and Legend of Zelda are represented perfectly. Mario has all of the major players with Daisy being added, and Legend of Zelda has everything from classic to modern represented now. The "3 Links" complaint is understandable, but that's because the major players in the Legend of Zelda series barely change, if ever, compared to series like Fire Emblem where the major players are constantly changing. Legend of Zelda and Mario are also well represented with stages and items, more so than many other series.

Chrono would be an odd pick, but I'm definitely not opposed to him. My only concern is that his series is long dead, and Chrono Trigger hasn't really been talked about in a long time. If a remake for Switch is on the way then I could definitely see it, but as of right now I'd rate his chances around the same as a Dragon Quest or Bravely Default Character.

For Square Enix, I'd say another Final Fantasy character is more likely than we may think. It's that big of a series that it could warrant 2 unique characters. Sakurai said that 1/3 - 1/4 of Final Fantasy character mentions were Cloud, but I find it plausible to believe that Terra was mentioned more than that, as she was seen as the most prominent Nintendo-related Final Fantasy character. Lara Croft is a dark horse pick, but would be a great hype-raiser, especially for the casual crowd. Dragon Quest isn't as likely as we may think, as it's not particularly popular in the West. Bravely Default isn't particularly popular anywhere, so I wouldn't expect to see anything from that series either. Kingdom Hearts and Geno are special cases, and can't really be placed. Geno seems likely, but for all we know Square is keeping him locked in a vault, or Sakurai believes a Mii Gunner costume is enough.

Supposed leaks with Lloyd in them? You already know the two. The Japan and Inbox "leaks" are the only two living leaks listing him.

After learning more about Terra, She probably the only FF character that I would want more than Squall Lightning, or anyone else in Final Fantasy who has a Gunblade (and that's pretty big for me), so the fact that Sakurai was entertaining the thought of putting her in and that she was a popular pick/topic makes me happy and bit hopeful for her inclusion.

All of them are canon.
Yes, even the mobile only online one.

Right, right so true, that just makes the odds hopefully better.

 

[Zinith]

Why Gardevoir?

Do me a favor and look up "Gardevoir fanart" and that'll tell you exactly why.

I don't like it, but it is a very popular 'mon.

I can name quite a handful of 'mon I've seen that's popular in those circles. I've been around the block

 

[Noipoi]

I like Gardevoir, not because it looks like a woman but because it can open black holes with it's mind and that's bad ass. I would love Gardevoir in Smash but I can't see it happening. Also Gothitelle? Not in a million years.

 

[New_Dumal]

We all know Sakurai wants to surprise people. Gardevoir is not that out of the box since she's quite popular even nowadays.
Until this point, every character was a well received/wanted one. Ridley, Inkling, Simon, K.Rool. Gardevoir can be the wild card this time around. I think the leak is legit.

 

[Nazyrus]

Don't forget that most of the games on Nintendo are canon too. I definitely think that Sora is more likely than people believe, and why he's also one of my most wanted characters too.

Oh they all are, trust me. The only one that is really meh and random is reoded, but the rest are totally canon (and super important). Now the usual question I have about Sora in Smash is… which version of Sora would we get? I think Sora from KH1 ( and chain of memories) is the safest bet. For a few reasons… he is currently SO DAMN OP in the current games and the upcoming one, it's not even funny how strong this boy is. But something tells me that Sakurai will do something similar like with King K Rool… we would get a Sora that gathers the best of each of his games for his moveset. Man… I really want a Disney rep in Smash, and Sora is definitely the best choice, nevermind how famous he is everywhere and specially Japan… plus KH3 coming just makes it so convenient to appear in smash a month before the newest game...

Funny note… Why would Sora not want a "Sora" character in Smash anyway? lol

 

[Noipoi]

Did Gardevoir do well in the ballot? Gardevoir is a popular Pokemon but so are a million others, I don't see why Sakurai would pick this one specifically.

 

[Shroob]

The problem with Gothitelle is that he'd literally be adding it because it's an easy add, no other reason.

Daisy, Dark Samus and Chrom all had their fanbases, and a character like Richter is iconic, just not a character that the Smash community ever considered.

Even echoes we think of like Shadow, Ken, Dixie, Isabelle are all one thing.

'Iconic'.


Gothitelle is literally a Pokedex filler that was meant to try to recapture the appeal of Gardevoir, and failed miserably.


I'm not saying it's impossible, but it'd be this game's Dark Pit, and somehow be even less relevant than him(At least he's Pit's 'rival')

 

[Idon]

Yall talkin about Terra, and not about my boy, RAMZA.
Mr. "I'm going to throw a rock at you and then scream to buff myself up."

 

[Reality_Ciak]

My first Xenoblade was XCX and my first Castlevania was Dracula X. I thoroughly enjoyed both. I didn't know I was in the minority in that, at least the latter. Neat.

If I were to try to draw conclusions on rumors and things that could loosely be over interpreted as "trends", my current unrealistic vision for the rest of Smash news looks like:

Spoiler

Sakurai tweets about having a recurring headache due to a concussion he had as a child.

I'd guess we'd get a September Smash Direct leading with a reveal of Gardevoir and her Gothitelle echo (around the time the Pokemon Let's Go games release), followed by a highlight of their gameplay, a Pokemon boss hinted at (likely an Ultra Beast), 2 new echoes, Medusa and Dixie, followed by "Games & More" details and online details, more disconfirms peppered throughout, another tease of "Spirits" and the announcement that there will be only one more Smash Direct before launch. Then Skull Kid at the end. The background has a backpack and a bird cage.

Rhythm Heaven rep part of another Direct. October.

Isabelle casually revealed as an Echo on the blog. October.

Sakurai tweets about his joints feeling a little stiff from all his hard work. November.

Then Banjo Kazooie, Shadow and Hilda, Spirits Mode, assist trophies play a role in the story, closes with Geno.

Isaac, Elma, Octolings (echo), and Bandana Dee are free DLC. Please understand.

Springman with Ribbon Girl Echo, and Rex & P/M are paid DLC. The end.

Edit: maybe a season pass instead of any of them being free. Idk. It all unravels toward the end when I realized the shear number of characters that still seem likely.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

We all know Sakurai wants to surprise people. Gardevoir is not that out of the box since she's quite popular even nowadays.
Until this point, every character was a well received/wanted one. Ridley, Inkling, Simon, K.Rool. Gardevoir can be the wild card this time around. I think the leak is legit.

Exactly. I believe we're due for some oddball picks coming up.

If the NeoGAF "leak" is correct, I just hope they reveal Terra and Prince Sable together. Imagine this trailer: Cloud and Mario are fighting against a group of frogs (an actual enemy in Final Fantasy 7), and they get turned into frogs (with spiky hair and Mario cap to set them apart). Terra jumps in to save them. Gameplay. The gang defeats the frog except for one, who turns into Prince Sable. Gameplay. end.

It'd be such an unconventional and hype-inducing trailer. I'd love to see everyone's reactions to it.

 

[Will]

The problem with Gothitelle is that he'd literally be adding it because it's an easy add, no other reason.)

Guess we all forgot why Ganondorf is in the game

 

[drag0nscythe]

All these leaks are missing Bandanna Dee. It is so sad.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So I heard from someone that Simon Belmont's Japanese voice actor is the possibly the same one as Leif's in Fire Emblem Heroes(can anyone confirm this?) and his voice lines were recorded before April when the VA was revealed. Mainly because Lloyd's Japanese actor is the same as Xander and apparently he recorded new voice lines for the game before the August Direct.

Not sure if this means anything though.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

The only problem I would have with Gardevoir is the fact that Sceptile seemed to be pushed hard by fans during the ballot so that would be a big OOF to them, especially if we arent getting Decidueye for gen 7. Though...Gardevoir and Gothitelle both being Psychic types, and whether Gothitelle is popular or not helps cover both Gen 3 and 5.

 

[vaanrose]

Why Gardevoir?

Do me a favor and look up "Gardevoir fanart" and that'll tell you exactly why.

I don't like it, but it is a very popular 'mon.

Is a character popular because they get lewded, or do they get lewded because they're popular?

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

All these leaks are missing Bandanna Dee. It is so sad.

Yeah...there was one going for him with memoryman saying he found extra amiibo data for Waddle Dee in Woolly World persuming he would get a Smash amiibo, but he came out and said it was a mistake.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I can name quite a handful of 'mon I've seen that's popular in those circles. I've been around the block

I'd imagine you have.

Let me do it for you though:

Lucario
Lopunny
Gardevoir
Lurantis
Bounsweet's evo, if I remember what it looks like correctly.
Salazzle
Blaziken
Charizard
Delphox (forgot the final evos name)
Any of the Eeveelutions + Eevee itself
Arcanine
Ninetails
Mewtwo
Lugia
Solgaleo
Feraligatr
Typhlosion
Scrafty
Dragonite
Nihilego is interesting
Buzzwole too
The Tapus
Mew
Serperior
Keldeo
Infernape
Machamp
Incineroar
Primarina
Meowth/Persian
Luxray

I feel like I'm forgetting a few, but there's lots and these are the first that came to mind and it's already getting too long.

****! Goodra!

 

[Will]

Is a character popular because they get lewded, or do they get lewded because they're popular?

Seeing how K. Rool and Ashley are suddenly paired together on these tags
yes to both

 

[Starbound]

Is Gothitelle even similar in structure to Gardevoir?

...does Gothitelle have feet? It just looks like a tower with bows and a head on it.

But I mean I guess it could work. But why Gothitelle when I'm sure the moveset could transfer to someone more popular like Alakazam

 

[Zinith]

I'd imagine you have.

Let me do it for you though:

Lucario
Lopunny
Gardevoir
Lurantis
Bounsweet's evo, if I remember what it looks like correctly.
Salazzle
Blaziken
Charizard
Delphox (forgot the final evos name)
Any of the Eeveelutions + Eevee itself
Arcanine
Ninetails
Mewtwo
Lugia
Solgaleo
Feraligatr
Typhlosion
Scrafty
Dragonite
Nihilego is interesting
Buzzwole too
The Tapus
Mew
Serperior
Keldeo
Infernape
Machamp
Incineroar
Primarina
Meowth/Persian
Luxray

I feel like I'm forgetting a few, but there's lots and these are the first that came to mind and it's already getting too long.

You forgot Pikachu lol

 

[drag0nscythe]

Yeah...there was one going for him with memoryman saying he found extra amiibo data for Waddle Dee in Woolly World persuming he would get a Smash amiibo, but he came out and said it was a mistake.

And given what I have been hearing, Inciniroar, Gardivor, Heihachi, I am not impressed with the remaining.
We have Ridley and K Rool though. So no complaints there, just hoping for stronger and stronger reveals.

 

[New_Dumal]

Quick reminder that Gardevoir is a pokéball Pokemon in both Brawl and Smash4...still not seem in Smash Ultimate.

 

[Shroob]

Like, I'd be fine with Gardevoir.

Gothitelle though would be a very hard sell.


Even Dark Pit is more iconic as far as Echo Fighters are concerned, and it'd literally be "Because we need to represent Gen5 but don't want to give it a unique fighter."


The rest of the leak is fine. Mario2 is odd, but I legit expect a 3rd Mario at this point.

 

[KMDP]

Man, it's taken me all day to catch up; what with me counting supporters and all.

With the help of others, I've counted 200 Characters so far.

About Gardevoir, it's one of my top favourite Pokémon; I'd love it as a Fighter in Smash.