Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mc.Rad]

I wanna place some emphasis on this right here with regard to F-Zero at least. Wasn’t Nintendo considering outsourcing to another studio to work on a new F-Zero game in 2013, but it fell through?

Anyone got the article with that information? I seem to have lost it

Yeah, they could be having an F-Zero game under wraps if this is the case. Or hopefully, they will re-release GX in a HD remake so that people can finally play the best game in the Franchise

 

[Pyra]

Sega and Namco would have to put in one as well.

The trophy can spawn a random company's Pachislot machine.
When you get near the machine, your character develops a very serious gambling addiction.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I would buy the goemon pachislot machines if i had a place to out them. Well and if i could find them for sale.

The trophy can spawn a random company's Pachislot machine.
When you get near the machine, your character develops a very serious gambling addiction.

A spcial feature in coun smash, lose all your coins.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I remember when the Subspace Emissary was first revealed and we thought it was going to be the greatest thing that Nintendo ever did because "Holy ****, it's going to have REAL NINTENDO BOSSES!!!" and lots of people made these big, long lists of boss ideas, only for Nintendo to use literally 4 with Petey, Rayquaza, Ridley, and Porky. Looks like they're going to go nuts with it this time so what all do you guys want to see?

Mario: Smithy, Fawful, or Cackletta
DK: Army Dillo, Krow, or Kleever
Zelda: Phantom Ganon (any version), Koloktos, or Volvagia
Metroid: Queen Metroid or Kraid
Mother: Porky
Yoshi: Burt, Navel, or Tap Tap
Kirby: O2, Marx Soul, or Sectonia, Kracko and Whispy should probably be in their too for good measure
Star Fox: the super scary version of Andross from Adventures
Pokemon: no strong feelings but I would be okay with Rayquaza returning or even Mega Rayquaza
Fire Emblem: Grima
Wario: Rudy
Kid Icarus: Hades or Medusa (if she's not playable)
Pikmin: pretty much any of the final bosses of the Pikmin games would be really good.
Sonic: any of the versions of Metal Sonic or Eggman's machines would be fine.
MegaMan: waaaay too many good choices... Wily is inevitable but I hope they throw in several popular robot masters for good measure
Punch Out: Bald Bull or Sandman
Street Fighter: M. Bison or Akuma
Final Fantasy: another series with way too many good options to count
Bayonetta: don't know enough about this series to make a good suggestion

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Meanwhile I'd just take a Stranger Things video game in the form an Earthbound style RPG.

But to keep it on subject? I don't see Ninten as an echo.

I also am reluctant to think they'd give Falcon an echo even if he is Mr. Smash Brothers.

Ninten does have a beret, so telling him apart is possible.

That said, Falcon's only good Echo choice is a costume still(Blood Falcon). Black Shadow would work as an Echo of Ganondorf, or a clone encompassing his old moveset. I used to be against this idea, but then I realized that there was no way we'd outright lose Ganondorf's original moveset, so it's not an issue. My problem with Black Shadow taking Ganondorf's old moveset is that it meant Ganondorf wouldn't play remotely like his Smash version anymore. I don't like that. I don't mind updates(usually, sometimes it hurts how I can play a character), but outright pasting a moveset onto another character just to "give an all new moveset to someone" is just pointlessly catering to a specific set of fans. The way Sakurai does it to please both kinds. Ganondorf has his sword, but still retains his previous movesets. So even if Black Shadow played like Brawl Ganondorf, we'd still have the original Ganondorf with an updated playstyle that pleases many veteran fans. I won't pretend that all veteran fans want the old Ganondorf either, of course. That's silly. Some just did like his old moveset and don't want it gone entirely.

Plus, with BOTW Link, he got updates and is a bit more different, but Young Link still is pretty much the old moveset, though definitely still has differences, and isn't simply "Link from the first 4 games".

 

[Zinith]

I remember when the Subspace Emissary was first revealed and we thought it was going to be the greatest thing that Nintendo ever did because "Holy ****, it's going to have REAL NINTENDO BOSSES!!!" and lots of people made these big, long lists of boss ideas, only for Nintendo to use literally 4 with Petey, Rayquaza, Ridley, and Porky. Looks like they're going to go nuts with it this time so what all do you guys want to see?

Mario: Smithy, Fawful, or Cackletta
DK: Army Dillo, Krow, or Kleever
Zelda: Phantom Ganon (any version), Koloktos, or Volvagia
Metroid: Queen Metroid or Kraid
Mother: Porky
Yoshi: Burt, Navel, or Tap Tap
Kirby: O2, Marx Soul, or Sectonia, Kracko and Whispy should probably be in their too for good measure
Star Fox: the super scary version of Andross from Adventures
Pokemon: no strong feelings but I would be okay with Rayquaza returning or even Mega Rayquaza
Fire Emblem: Grima
Wario: Rudy
Kid Icarus: Hades or Medusa (if she's not playable)
Pikmin: pretty much any of the final bosses of the Pikmin games would be really good.
Sonic: any of the versions of Metal Sonic or Eggman's machines would be fine.
MegaMan: waaaay too many good choices... Wily is inevitable but I hope they throw in several popular robot masters for good measure
Punch Out: Bald Bull or Sandman
Street Fighter: M. Bison or Akuma
Final Fantasy: another series with way too many good options to count
Bayonetta: don't know enough about this series to make a good suggestion

Ooo, I'd like to add Raphael Raven to that list

 

[Idon]

It ain't a Konami franchise if it doesn't have pachinko or mobile gacha with it.

NEVER FORGET

 

[AustarusIV]

Xenoblade X was also not that well received in the west though. This has nothing to do with relevancy or Elma's chances for Smash, but I've seen the Xenoblade fanbase become split and become a shadow of their former selves with my own eyes, when X released.

People whine about XB2 that its to anime, but honestly thats the only real complainment it has. X was panned to death for the music, the lack of story, the difficulty etc., and diehard X fans would hate you if you preffered the original Xenoblade. It was awful

Also an X sequal could also mean a game with a similair style because Takahashi is sadly infamous for unfinishing stories like with Xenogears and maybe Xenosaga.

Last I checked, XCX actually got a lot of highly positive reviews from many credible publications. IGN, Famitsu, Destructoid, Metacritic, etc. all gave it relatively high scores around 8-9 out of 10 (34 out of 40 in Famitsu's case). It even sold better than XC, despite being on the Wii U, which has a much smaller install base than the Wii.

Also, as a fellow Xenoblade fan I don't see that many people tearing themselves over XCX for what it is. I've seen a fair amount of them disappointed over it not being "Xenoblade Chronicles 2.0", but not so much that they tore themselves in two over it.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I know a good echo character that hasn't been a popular suggestion but still has a great shot.

Spoiler

Hilda. The main things she has going for her is that Zelda's look is ALttP/ALBW based now and that she doesn't have a Hilda theme costume in the demo like Ike & Chrom and Samus & Dark Samus.

 

[MainJPW]

I wanna place some emphasis on this right here with regard to F-Zero at least. Wasn’t Nintendo considering outsourcing to another studio to work on a new F-Zero game in 2013, but it fell through?

Anyone got the article with that information? I seem to have lost it

Yeah, Nintendo wanted Burnout Developer Criterion to make a new F-Zero for the Wii U.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/23/burnout-dev-criterion-nearly-made-a-wii-u-f-zero-game

 

[Pyra]

Ninten needs to be a Captain Falcon echo.

Honestly, put his moveset on anyone. Please.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Actually, I was going to put this in a big post, but to add on to what I was saying to DaybreakHorizon I think, while it's nice to believe in Geno (and other Square characters for that matter), we should be cautious about any expectations. I don't think it's an automatic exclusion, especially since we don't know enough yet and probably won't until we've got a final roster/music/etc reveal, but, let's remain on the side of caution on Square Enix characters similar to how we were with Konami.

I know we're probably done w/ Konami characters, but, on that subject, I do know that Square Enix is the only (iirc) company to have picked fights on copyright with OC Remix. Coincidentally enough, they let Materia Collective (or anyone else that's able to pay them the royalty fees) off scot-free... Square-Enix is always a wild card of a company to tell what they'll do. I also think that there might be some modesty at play for Bamco. I've suspected this since Smash 4.

Capcom and Sega are always open to blatant advertising.

Also who exactly owns the rights to Golden Sun? Is it Nintendo directly or Camelot or dual-owned? There may be some inner-politics at play. I doubt it, especially since for my Bachelor's degree I've even done an interview with one of the Takahashi Brothers (it wasn't much); the whole company is pretty chill, but, I don't think Isaac or Geno are out of the woods just yet.

 

[drag0nscythe]

The trophy can spawn a random company's Pachislot machine.
When you get near the machine, your character develops a very serious gambling addiction.

A spcial feature in coun smash, lose all your coins.

I know a good echo character that hasn't been a popular suggestion but still has a great shot.

Spoiler

Hilda. The main things she has going for her is that Zelda's look is ALttP/ALBW based now and that she doesn't have a Hilda theme costume in the demo like Ike & Chrom and Samus & Dark Samus.

True. But would be a better alph-olimar thing.
Hoping for twili midna honestly

 

[Idon]

To get back at F-Zero fans, Ganondorf fans should push for Samurai Goro,

as a clone of Link.

 

[Zinith]

Actually, I was going to put this in a big post, but to add on to what I was saying to DaybreakHorizon I think, while it's nice to believe in Geno (and other Square characters for that matter), we should be cautious about any expectations. I don't think it's an automatic exclusion, especially since we don't know enough yet and probably won't until we've got a final roster/music/etc reveal, but, let's remain on the side of caution on Square Enix characters similar to how we were with Konami.

I know we're probably done w/ Konami characters, but, on that subject, I do know that Square Enix is the only (iirc) company to have picked fights on copyright with OC Remix. Coincidentally enough, they let Materia Collective (or anyone else that's able to pay them the royalty fees) off scot-free... Square-Enix is always a wild card of a company to tell what they'll do. I also think that there might be some modesty at play for Bamco. I've suspected this since Smash 4.

Capcom and Sega are always open to blatant advertising.

Also who exactly owns the rights to Golden Sun? Is it Nintendo directly or Camelot or dual-owned? There may be some inner-politics at play. I doubt it, especially since for my Bachelor's degree I've even done an interview with one of the Takahashi Brothers (it wasn't much); the whole company is pretty chill, but, I don't think Isaac or Geno are out of the woods just yet.

Camalot has been making games for Nintendo exclusively since 1999.

Fun Fact: they made Shining Force and Hot Shots Golf before moving over to Nintendo

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah, Nintendo wanted Burnout Developer Criterion to make a new F-Zero for the Wii U.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/23/burnout-dev-criterion-nearly-made-a-wii-u-f-zero-game

Think they could be trying to approach them again?

What about retro studios? Idk the whole story of what’s going on with them but they’ve had a secret project for years and it’s confirmed neither DKCTF nor MP4 was it.

Otherwise I’d agree with Mc.Rad and say an HD remaster of GX with online may be the best and easiest solution

It may even gauge interest in a new game for real like Star Fox 64 3D back in 2010

 

[SquashiniKun]

Hey can someone upload a blank version of that Smash Wishes template?

 

[Pyra]

Hey can someone upload a blank version of that Smash Wishes template?

Here ya go.

 

[Idon]

Hey can someone upload a blank version of that Smash Wishes template?

Gotcha covered.

EDIT: Dammit smashboards.

 

[Starbound]

The ballot may not be the be-all-end-all, but every unique newcomer character we got so far has been big in terms of popularity with even bonus characters l (Daisy, Chrom and Dark Samus) being in because of popularity. Popularity is definitely a major theme among newcomers. At any rate, to keep the hype train going, I'd expect the likes of K. Rool and Simon to be followed up with someone like, say, Skull Kid or Isabelle.

But popularity has always been a guiding theme for picks. I guess what I'm trying to say is that popularity doesn't matter any differently than it has before, because it has always been a relevant factor for Sakurai when determining the roster. I don't think this is any different with Smash Ultimate than it has been for the past games.

Sakurai created a Japanese poll for Melee newcomers, and we got most of them: Bowser and Peach were 1 and 2, Ganondorf was 5th, Mewtwo was 6th and Marth was 11th. Wario placed third and was almost added instead of Dr. Mario but Sakurai thought he deserved better. However, of course, we got him last game. Also joined by him are Dedede (4th place), Diddy (16th) and Meta Knight (19th). Ash from Pokemon was also in the top 20 and may have inspired the creation of Pokemon Trainer next game as well. Source

We had a similar poll for Brawl, which got us, unsurprisingly, multiple popular picks as newcomers. In addition to the aforementioned Dedede, Diddy and Meta Knight, we also got Ike, Olimar, Toon Link and Lucas. Mega Man and Villager also scored well here, and, as we all know, got picked up in the next game. Sonic didn't get mentioned here, but I don't think his popularity pre-Brawl can be measured on any known scale. Ridley and K. Rool's popularity starts here as well, and they got added recently, and we know Sakurai was always aware of Ridley's popularity. But I don't need to debate that point as we know popularity is playing a factor here. Source.

We don't have a poll for Smash 4, a first, and so far unique, situation for Smash. Anyone who was here in 2014 can tell you that we got quite a few popular characters: the aforementioned Villager and Mega Man as well as Little Mac, Ryu, Cloud, Shulk, Mewtwo's return, Roy's return, and Rosalina (a bone for casual Nintendo) all demonstrate this, as well as lesser, but still popular, characters like Robin, Palutena, Duck Hunt, Pac Man, Bayonetta and Lucina. I think we stopped thinking popularity mattered when we saw all of Dr. Mario, Wii Fit Trainer, Corrin and Dark Pit (and, due to unique circumstances, debatably Greninja) on the CSS as no one wanted them, but every game has had a few odd-ball picks (Game and Watch and Ice Climbers, Pichu, Roy and Dr. Mario in Melee, and Zero Suit Samus, Pit and ROB all were those odd picks that Sakurai loves to throw in).

What a lot of people (myself included) have been viewing popularity has the sole guiding force in determining the roster due to the constant stream of "highly requested" picks we've gotten, when in reality, this situation with Ultimate isn't any different than in the past.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Camalot has been making games for Nintendo exclusively since 1999.

Fun Fact: they made Shining Force and Hot Shots Golf before moving over to Nintendo

You're telling me that Bud, I've played through Golden Sun 1-3 and Shining Force 1-3 (all acts of 3); the only one I'm missing is Shining: The Holy Ark. I don't let my Camelot nerd tastes out in here much, but Isaac is easily one of the very few Nintendo characters left that would cause me to squeal.

I'm more wondering the legal standing.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Oo I'd like a link.

That said, don't get your hopes up too high obviously (honestly third-parties, or anything not legally owned by Nintendo, is hard to gauge any true idea on), and Disney owns the rights to Sora, which working w/ Square-Enix is already proving tedious. While I don't believe we were shown the final music roster, I do have my reservations when seeing two Final Fantasy songs only thus far, and neither of them being remixes either.

Sakurai x Normura Interview: Part 1, Part 2

I'm not the kind to get my hopes up, but I see Sora as a likely character. Sora is owned by Disney, meaning that Sakurai is dealing with them and not Square Enix. The odd thing about this is that Disney refers approval to use Sora to Normura, who Sakurai is already friends with after their work together on Cloud in Sm4sh. Disney and Nintendo already have solid relationships, so I believe that executives/legal would be more willing to collaborate with Sakurai than other studios/directors, and I believe that if anyone can portray Sora true to the source material of Kingdom Hearts, it's Sakurai. He's proven that he's able to do it repeatedly, and Sora would be no exception.

Disney has said that if the fans want Sora in Smash, they would be more than willing to let him in. They don't care how Sora and the Kingdom Hearts license is used so long as it is true to the source material. All that needs to be done is that Normura has to approve of how Sora and the Kingdom Hearts content in the game would be used, which he would, because it's Sakurai we're talking about here. If Sora doesn't get into Smash, it means that the fans didn't speak out enough, or that Sakurai didn't seek him out. Not because Disney interfered.

Watch this video. It explains things very well.

Also, while we're clearing up misconceptions. Disney didn't step in to prevent Dissidia from being a Disney fighting game, it was Normura who decided against it.
From Normura: "However, deciding it would be a bad idea to make Disney characters fight each other..."
http://www.siliconera.com/2009/06/30/dissidia-final-fantasy-originated-from-kingdom-hearts/

I apologize if this comes off as combative, but there are a lot of misconceptions surrounding Sora and his potential inclusion in Smash. I believe it's a lot more likely than we think.

Other good resources:
An Immensely In-depth Analysis on Sora's Chances of Getting in Smash
HMK asks about Sora's rights and his chances at being in Smash Bros. (Posted by our friend @BluePikmin11)

Sorry that I don't have much Xenoblade to add but first off...

THANK YOU. Speculation isn't about things that we think are likely.

Second off, I much prefer crackpot theories instead of dismissive posts. I know there's certain characters that get me cranky (for logical reasons) but let me mention two examples of people that keep the thread's momentum for me

DaybreakHorizon is probably the most third-party supportive person I've seen and has mentioned some absolutely baffling characters to the average eye, but I don't think he's wrong. At first I thought "lol joker" but I've definitely opened my mind to a possibility of that as DLC.

Zinith with his love of the Yoshi franchise - it's no secret that Yoshi's basically got the shaft (even character and stage wise) and we don't even know why he was given his own icon, but I enjoy seeing ideas from him here and there.

like say what you will about those two (and others similar that didn't get a shout out, for that matter) but at least they bring a breath of fresh air


I think you're thinking about the Ballot here and not popularity as a whole. It's a lot to gauge in, but I think you're on the right track, personally.

Thanks for the mention dude. I'm personally of the belief that most, if not all of the major Nintendo stars are already in the game, minus a few.

 

[L9999]

I don't see why Mother should get a character just for the sake of "more Mother reps" when the series gets more than enough love.

Mother has the Magicant stage, it has 6 songs (Bein Friends, Pollyanna, Snowman, Humoresque of a Little Dog, Magicant, and the 8 melodies), it had enemies in Smash Run (Starman, Devil Car), and it has an item (Franklin Badge).

Earthbound and Mother 3 are the most popular Mother games (because no one actually likes Mother lol) and they have characters, Ness and Lucas. Regardless of behind the scenes action from 64 to Smash 4 they are both here.

Earthbound has 2 stages (Fourside and Onett), it has 2 items (Mr Saturn and Rambling Shroom), an assist trophy (Jeff), and has 3 songs (Smiles and Tears, Onett, Fourside).

Mother 3 has a stage (New Pork City), 4 songs (You Call This a Utopia?!, Porky's Theme, Love Theme, and Unfounded Revenge), and Porky was a boss in Brawl.

Smash Ultimate threw its bone to the series by adding the other party members in the PK kids' final smashes.

Does Mother need more "reps?" Not really. If Ultimate were to give Mother newcomers well good, but lets not jump to braindead bandwagons of "Ninten to complete the Mother trio," "Porky for villains," "Giygas/Ninten could be clones" and all of that.

 

[Zinith]

You're telling me that Bud, I've played through Golden Sun 1-3 and Shining Force 1-3 (all acts of 3); the only one I'm missing is Shining: The Holy Ark. I don't let my Camelot nerd tastes out in here much, but Isaac is easily one of the very few Nintendo characters left that would cause me to squeal.

I'm more wondering the legal standing.

Unless a REALLY bad falling out happens between them and Nintendo, I don't see Isaac being off-the-table anytime soon

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Has anoyone linked Verge or loz18 to the supposed leaker who datamined the Smash Demo and found what seemed to be Gardevoir and Gothitelle as her echo. I would like to know their opinions as the guy apparently found Richter in the data as early as July.

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422689663/

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

But popularity has always been a guiding theme for picks. I guess what I'm trying to say is that popularity doesn't matter any differently than it has before, because it has always been a relevant factor for Sakurai when determining the roster. I don't think this is any different with Smash Ultimate than it has been for the past games.

Sakurai created a Japanese poll for Melee newcomers, and we got most of them: Bowser and Peach were 1 and 2, Ganondorf was 5th, Mewtwo was 6th and Marth was 11th. Wario placed third and was almost added instead of Dr. Mario but Sakurai thought he deserved better. However, of course, we got him last game. Also joined by him are Dedede (4th place), Diddy (16th) and Meta Knight (19th). Ash from Pokemon was also in the top 20 and may have inspired the creation of Pokemon Trainer next game as well. Source

We had a similar poll for Brawl, which got us, unsurprisingly, multiple popular picks as newcomers. In addition to the aforementioned Dedede, Diddy and Meta Knight, we also got Ike, Olimar, Toon Link and Lucas. Mega Man and Villager also scored well here, and, as we all know, got picked up in the next game. Sonic didn't get mentioned here, but I don't think his popularity pre-Brawl can be measured on any known scale. Ridley and K. Rool's popularity starts here as well, and they got added recently, and we know Sakurai was always aware of Ridley's popularity. But I don't need to debate that point as we know popularity is playing a factor here. Source.

We don't have a poll for Smash 4, a first, and so far unique, situation for Smash. Anyone who was here in 2014 can tell you that we got quite a few popular characters: the aforementioned Villager and Mega Man as well as Little Mac, Ryu, Cloud, Shulk, Mewtwo's return, Roy's return, and Rosalina (a bone for casual Nintendo) all demonstrate this, as well as lesser, but still popular, characters like Robin, Palutena, Duck Hunt, Pac Man, Bayonetta and Lucina. I think we stopped thinking popularity mattered when we saw all of Dr. Mario, Wii Fit Trainer, Corrin and Dark Pit (and, due to unique circumstances, debatably Greninja) on the CSS as no one wanted them, but every game has had a few odd-ball picks (Game and Watch and Ice Climbers, Pichu, Roy and Dr. Mario in Melee, and Zero Suit Samus, Pit and ROB all were those odd picks that Sakurai loves to throw in).

What a lot of people (myself included) have been viewing popularity has the sole guiding force in determining the roster due to the constant stream of "highly requested" picks we've gotten, when in reality, this situation with Ultimate isn't any different than in the past.

SUPER DUPER FUN FACT

Guess who else appeared in the Brawl Poll?

Soren.

Has anoyone linked Verge or loz18 to the supposed leaker who datamined the Smash Demo ans found what seemed to be Gardevoir and Gothitelle as her echo. I would like to know their opinions as the guy apparently found Richter in the data as early as July.

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422689663/

They are surely aware of it. This "leak" has been on everyone's radar since the Direct.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I kinda feel like we're at the point where the popular franchises are getting to where the next character will be very obscure compared to others. Not in terms of popularity, but in terms of relevance to the franchise. There are a few examples where this isn't the case like Wario and Yoshi, but you could also argue that those are spin off characters with their own spinoff games. I think that K.Rool and Ridley might just be the most coincidental popular picks that could ever happen, since both are bad guys from series that have little rep in Smash Bros. Heck, maybe in an alternate universe I'd be arguing my case for King K.Rool after the August Direct came along and dropped the Deathborn trailer.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Has anoyone linked Verge or loz18 to the supposed leaker who datamined the Smash Demo ans found what seemed to be Gardevoir and Gothitelle as her echo. I would like to know their opinions as the guy apparently found Richter in the data as early as July.

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422689663/

I'm sorry but we have to stop giving passes to leaks that have one seemingly crazy thing right when the rest screams:

 

[SquashiniKun]

Here are my Smash Wishes, or something idk.

 

[Starbound]

SUPER DUPER FUN FACT

Guess who else appeared in the Brawl Poll?

Soren.

I only counted characters that appeared multiple times (the list is really long and the bottom part is really convenient), but if we're going to acknowledge the rumor, then we also can say Felix was on the poll and Isaac had multiple requests. Simon also appeared on the poll.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Thanks for the mention dude. I'm personally of the belief that most, if not all of the major Nintendo stars are already in the game, minus a few.

Re - Sora: Huh, interesting. Granted, I hate putting chances on Third-Party characters because they're always a fishy situation; this is a habit I picked up from the Brawl days however so nobody has to join me in on this.

Also, I'm curious to see who your list is. Bar new franchises and echos, I'm down to like... 3 characters lmao. I'd have a hard time squandering up all the supporting characters that could work. Though, you all know me, I wouldn't have that hard of a time.

Speaking of Third-Parties, curious to hear what you think of Chrono.

Unless a REALLY bad falling out happens between them and Nintendo, I don't see Isaac being off-the-table anytime soon

Legal standings kind-of matter to still be discussed. All I'm wondering is who own's it. It probably won't change anything, but it's absolutely worth discovering if we can.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Like you seriously think that someone was able to sneak a demo off premises to datamine it?

Like seriously?

That alone is the grounds for just writing it off as a fan who wanted some attention and just put his/her wants.

Good man or lady did get some of his/her wants though. Good for him/her.

 

[Pakky]

Here are my Smash Wishes, or something idk.
View attachment 157156

Just reminded me about Ulala, I'm on it!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

NEVER FORGET

I still can't believe that was actually a thing.

But popularity has always been a guiding theme for picks. I guess what I'm trying to say is that popularity doesn't matter any differently than it has before, because it has always been a relevant factor for Sakurai when determining the roster. I don't think this is any different with Smash Ultimate than it has been for the past games.

Sakurai created a Japanese poll for Melee newcomers, and we got most of them: Bowser and Peach were 1 and 2, Ganondorf was 5th, Mewtwo was 6th and Marth was 11th. Wario placed third and was almost added instead of Dr. Mario but Sakurai thought he deserved better. However, of course, we got him last game. Also joined by him are Dedede (4th place), Diddy (16th) and Meta Knight (19th). Ash from Pokemon was also in the top 20 and may have inspired the creation of Pokemon Trainer next game as well. Source

We had a similar poll for Brawl, which got us, unsurprisingly, multiple popular picks as newcomers. In addition to the aforementioned Dedede, Diddy and Meta Knight, we also got Ike, Olimar, Toon Link and Lucas. Mega Man and Villager also scored well here, and, as we all know, got picked up in the next game. Sonic didn't get mentioned here, but I don't think his popularity pre-Brawl can be measured on any known scale. Ridley and K. Rool's popularity starts here as well, and they got added recently, and we know Sakurai was always aware of Ridley's popularity. But I don't need to debate that point as we know popularity is playing a factor here. Source.

We don't have a poll for Smash 4, a first, and so far unique, situation for Smash. Anyone who was here in 2014 can tell you that we got quite a few popular characters: the aforementioned Villager and Mega Man as well as Little Mac, Ryu, Cloud, Shulk, Mewtwo's return, Roy's return, and Rosalina (a bone for casual Nintendo) all demonstrate this, as well as lesser, but still popular, characters like Robin, Palutena, Duck Hunt, Pac Man, Bayonetta and Lucina. I think we stopped thinking popularity mattered when we saw all of Dr. Mario, Wii Fit Trainer, Corrin and Dark Pit (and, due to unique circumstances, debatably Greninja) on the CSS as no one wanted them, but every game has had a few odd-ball picks (Game and Watch and Ice Climbers, Pichu, Roy and Dr. Mario in Melee, and Zero Suit Samus, Pit and ROB all were those odd picks that Sakurai loves to throw in).

What a lot of people (myself included) have been viewing popularity has the sole guiding force in determining the roster due to the constant stream of "highly requested" picks we've gotten, when in reality, this situation with Ultimate isn't any different than in the past.

Thing is, we haven't gotten any of those "odd-ball picks" even though at this point we'd have gotten them at E3 like they always were in previous games
(). That's pretty telling in of itself, since previous Smash games always made it clear that popularity wasn't that much of a focus for newcomers. Closest thing we have to those types of characters is Richter and he's an echo, who takes only a small fraction of development a wholly unique character does, so he's not exactly comparable.

Also, we know for a fact that Sonic was by far the most highly desired character for Brawl and he was the single reason why Brawl even got delayed with his character page on the Brawl Dojo being explicit about his demand.

 

[Mc.Rad]

So what are your guys thoughts on characters bringing along obscure picks with them? If Smash Ultimate is based on the popularity poll, what popular characters do you think would pull along with them? I know Richter was an echo of Simon, but what if a popular character got in and then had a newcomer follow behind them.

 

[Zinith]

So what are your guys thoughts on characters bringing along obscure picks with them? If Smash Ultimate is based on the popularity poll, what popular characters do you think would pull along with them? I know Richter was an echo of Simon, but what if a popular character got in and then had a newcomer follow behind them.

I've been churning that idea in my head like a madman since that Direct. I REALLY want Boshi to come with Geno

 

[Nazyrus]

Sakurai x Normura Interview: Part 1, Part 2

I'm not the kind to get my hopes up, but I see Sora as a likely character. Sora is owned by Disney, meaning that Sakurai is dealing with them and not Square Enix. The odd thing about this is that Disney refers approval to use Sora to Normura, who Sakurai is already friends with after their work together on Cloud in Sm4sh. Disney and Nintendo already have solid relationships, so I believe that executives/legal would be more willing to collaborate with Sakurai than other studios/directors, and I believe that if anyone can portray Sora true to the source material of Kingdom Hearts, it's Sakurai. He's proven that he's able to do it repeatedly, and Sora would be no exception.

Nomura would definitely do a great recommendation to Disney to trust Sakurai for sure. See, this is exactly why I prefer (and think) Sora has just as many chances (or more imo) than Geno. If KH3 is not getting to Switch or the 1.5+2.5, we still got some KH games on Nintendo (plenty of them actually), and I'm sure Disney WANTS KH to keep catching the attention of everyone EVERYWHERE. What better place to do that than the best crossover fighting game ever? beats me. This is why Sora is one of my most wanted newcomers. I can totally see it happen, despite how tall the Disney wall seems to many.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Like you seriously think that someone was able to sneak a demo off premises to datamine it?

Like seriously?

That alone is the grounds for just writing it off as a fan who wanted some attention and just put his/herwants.

Good man or lady did get some of his wants though. Good for him/her.

I agree, I wouldnt say its impossible but the whole situatuon sounds sketchy. To be honest theres nothing really aganist the persons claims other than how he got time to fiddle with the demo.

 

[Nazyrus]

SUPER DUPER FUN FACT

Guess who else appeared in the Brawl Poll?

Soren.

They are surely aware of it. This "leak" has been on everyone's radar since the Direct.

Oh wait really? now i'm intrigued… I'm not gonna lie, I don't really care about FE (i don't hate it tho), but Soren has an interesting design and i like Robin a lot in Smash 4. (I gotta say tho… it's funny how Soren reminds me of harry potter because of that mark on his forehead, lol)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I don't see why Mother should get a character just for the sake of "more Mother reps" when the series gets more than enough love.

Mother has the Magicant stage, it has 6 songs (Bein Friends, Pollyanna, Snowman, Humoresque of a Little Dog, Magicant, and the 8 melodies), it had enemies in Smash Run (Starman, Devil Car), and it has an item (Franklin Badge).

Earthbound and Mother 3 are the most popular Mother games (because no one actually likes Mother lol) and they have characters, Ness and Lucas. Regardless of behind the scenes action from 64 to Smash 4 they are both here.

Earthbound has 2 stages (Fourside and Onett), it has 2 items (Mr Saturn and Rambling Shroom), an assist trophy (Jeff), and has 3 songs (Smiles and Tears, Onett, Fourside).

Mother 3 has a stage (New Pork City), 4 songs (You Call This a Utopia?!, Porky's Theme, Love Theme, and Unfounded Revenge), and Porky was a boss in Brawl.

Smash Ultimate threw its bone to the series by adding the other party members in the PK kids' final smashes.

Does Mother need more "reps?" Not really. If Ultimate were to give Mother newcomers well good, but lets not jump to braindead bandwagons of "Ninten to complete the Mother trio," "Porky for villains," "Giygas/Ninten could be clones" and all of that.

Yeah, at this stage I've made peace with the fact that Mother most likely won't get any other characters in the foreseeable future. I would much prefer to see other series than it get all the fan-driven love possible.

So what are your guys thoughts on characters bringing along obscure picks with them? If Smash Ultimate is based on the popularity poll, what popular characters do you think would pull along with them? I know Richter was an echo of Simon, but what if a popular character got in and then had a newcomer follow behind them.

I've entertained the notion of Crash having Spyro tag along, despite the fact that the latter didn't get much traction in Japan, series-wise.