Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cosmic77]

We'll see.

But to make her feel like herself? You'd have to change A LOT about Villager's moveset.

The boxing gloves, the ax, the shovel, the balloon fighter recovery would look weird with her hairstyle, etc.

At that point? She's even further removed than Chrom.

This argument is a double-edged sword. You say she would look weird fighting with boxing gloves and an axe, but fighting in general is already completely out of character for Isabelle. Her entire moveset can't be a bunch of innocent and cutesy "Oops! Didn't mean to do that!" moves. She'll have to fight in some capacity, and Villager's moveset is pretty easy to pass off onto any AC character.

Should Isabelle end up being an Echo, I think it would work out just fine. Not saying there can't be a few changes, but I don't believe a completely new moveset is required to represent her correctly.

 

[Idon]

The argument was about reusing someone else's moves for the attack though

You mean from the final Prime 2 fight? I guess PSI Magnet could get reused for that then. Nobody has a flight special like that though

Weeeeeell.
Blue thoron for neutral B
Blue Firefox for up B
Blue sonic spindash for down B
Blue lucario palm strike for side B

Those are moves that Dark Samus has used, if I remember correctly.

 

[Nazyrus]

Bro do you know how much money that would make? The engine is there, just make Final Fantasy 6 over it. It'd be perfect.

I also think Terra did well on the ballot, considering people wanted a Final Fantasy character, but didn't believe Cloud was eligible and voted for Terra instead. I think @Shroob made a good point about her being able to represent the series' core mechanics (i.e. magic and summons) better than Cloud.

And if you think about it, Terra being added plus maybe a LOT of new music would please or calm a little bit those who are complaining about FF7 only getting 2.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

I'm still waiting on Birdo as a Yoshi echo with Dedede's Neutral Special

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Possible Echo Fighters:
- Dr. Luigi
- Shadow
- Ken
- Akuma (Him or Ken)
- Dixie Kong
- Funky Kong
- Black Shadow
- Ninten
- Dry Bowser
- Impa
- Alph (The costume was a Misdirection?)
- Ms. Pac-Man
- Medusa
- Viridi (Her or Medusa)
- Octoling
- Meta Ridley (The costume was a Misdirection?)

Tfw you didn’t list
- Fiora/Proto Man/Kumatora (the Final Smash cameos were a misdirection?)

i wouldn’t mind kumatora as a lucas echo tbh

Also was Viridi’s model shown off in the Switch Version of Reset Bomb Forest or no?

 

[DJ3DS]

It wasn't supposed to be serious, but I do see why people wouldn't like this.

I get that, I'm just not sure how we are supposed to respond beyond giving our opinions on why or why not my mains placement seems wrong.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

DaybreakHorizon I don't remember what happened w/ the Smash 4 leaks group last time? All I remember is that myself and like, 10 others, once had a group DM about it. I think that should be fine. (for, obviously, credible leaks) - It worked pretty well since at the end, we were able to post concrete conclusions instead of shoving 400+ speculation posts down people's throats while also having 400+ posts about different topics on board.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Tfw you didn’t list
- Fiora/Proto Man/Kumatora (the Final Smash cameos were a misdirection?)

i wouldn’t mind kumatora as a lucas echo tbh

Also was Viridi’s model shown off in the Switch Version of Reset Bomb Forest or no?

Earthbound does not need another character beyond Ninten as an echo given it is a dead 20+ year old game series. It might as well be the same as Duck Hunt or Ice Climber.

Same goes for F Zero and a Black Shadow echo.

 

[Pakky]

So since Geno is an angel would he have a trailer with or in the forest maze?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Earthbound does not need another character beyond Ninten as an echo given it is a dead 20+ year old game series. It might as well be the same as Duck Hunt or Ice Climber.

Same goes for F Zero and a Black Shadow echo.

Well we didn't need Smash to become a Nintendo crossover instead of Dragon King but here we are. "Does not need" is never an argument

 

[Idon]

Earthbound does not need another character beyond Ninten as an echo given it is a dead 20+ year old game series. It might as well be the same as Duck Hunt or Ice Climber.

Same goes for F Zero and a Black Shadow echo.

Well, to be fair, F-Zero had a gamecube game and it has DLC in Mario Kart 8...

So it's less dead than the Mother series at least.

 

[RileyXY1]

Well we didn't need Smash to become a Nintendo crossover instead of Dragon King but here we are. "Does not need" is never an argument

Earthbound is a dead series. It is very low priority.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Earthbound does not need another character beyond Ninten as an echo given it is a dead 20+ year old game series. It might as well be the same as Duck Hunt or Ice Climber.

Same goes for F Zero and a Black Shadow echo.

Well by your logic, Castlevania is also a dead series but we still got Simon — AND Richter!

Also, Punch Out hasn’t had a game since the 2009 Wii release, and we got Little Mac as playable in 4.

I’m just saying

 

[Lady Byakugan]

How many DLC characters do you think we will get? I'm guessing 15-20 throughout the game's entire lifespan. Given Smash 4, which sold poorly on a poor console, got 7 with a 2 years, I think this is reasonable within the course of 7-9 years.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Earthbound is a dead series. It is very low priority.

Mother is a finished series, there's a distinct difference between the two.

Do I think we're getting anyone? Probably not.
Do I think we're getting Porky? Pretty close to 'absolutely not'
Could they easily make Ninten/Masked Man/Gigue out of using frames for other characters? Absolutely.
Was Masked Man one of the top requested characters in the Brawl era? Yes.

Also, same for F-Zero. At this point, a 100% unique character w/ Samurai Goroh is out of the question (sadly), but it's very easy to give it a fanservice Echo.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

So since Geno is an angel would he have a trailer with or in the forest maze?

He's more like a star being.

He even says he serves a higher power.

There's a certain guardian of space in Mario.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

they added a quasi-famous crocodile villan who's been dead for like 11 years just because people really wanted him back relevancy arguments are dead lmao.

EDIT: Because this post looks really low effort thinking about it I'll add that Mother has been given a lot of special treatment, partially because HAL used to make the smash games and also helped with Earthbound's development and partially because it's a really good series, one of nintendo's best despite it being a confirmed trilogy only. Not everything needs to be milked to death

 

[Idon]

Well by your logic, Castlevania is also a dead series but we still got Simon — AND Richter!

Also, Punch Out hasn’t had a game since the 2009 Wii release, and we got Little Mac as playable in 4.

I’m just saying

Nah nah nah, Castlevania is LEGENDARY as a franchise.
That's like calling Pacman a "dead franchise."
While that's technically true, that's entirely discounting the fact that it's a giant piece of Nintendo history and gaming history as a whole.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Well, to be fair, F-Zero had a gamecube game and it has DLC in Mario Kart 8...

So it's less dead than the Mother series at least.

You're right, but imo Falcon already covers the series well, and Black Shadow as an echo would be more than enough for a near-dead series/ That said, I would love to get more unique F-zero characters given how wacky the cast is, but that would first call for a new f-zero game.

 

[RileyXY1]

they added a quasi-famous crocodile villan who's been dead for like 11 years just because people really wanted him back relevancy arguments are dead lmao.

No Mother character is as highly requested as K.Rool.

 

[Zinith]

Well we didn't need Smash to become a Nintendo crossover instead of Dragon King but here we are. "Does not need" is never an argument

"Yoshi does not NEED anything new"

I hear ya...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Plus, dead/finished series or not, or character that hasn’t appeared in X amount of years or so, it counts as a form of publicity. People will wanna check out the games/series that character originated from

Hell, K. Rool’s trailer is making me wanna play the whole DKC SNES series — I’ve only played part of the first game!

 

[Nazyrus]

Mother is a finished series, there's a distinct difference between the two.

Do I think we're getting anyone? Probably not.
Do I think we're getting Porky? Pretty close to 'absolutely not'
Could they easily make Ninten/Masked Man/Gigue out of using frames for other characters? Absolutely.
Was Masked Man one of the top requested characters in the Brawl era? Yes.

Also, same for F-Zero. At this point, a 100% unique character w/ Samurai Goroh is out of the question (sadly), but it's very easy to give it a fanservice Echo.

Watch Nintendo finally announce Mother 3 or a collection of the 3 for the Switch even, alongside with a reveal trailer for Ninten as an echo fighter… Some might think i'm reaching far but heck, it's freaking nintendo… and it's also freaking SAKURAI.

 

[Cosmic77]

How many DLC characters do you think we will get? I'm guessing 15-20 throughout the game's entire lifespan. Given Smash 4, which sold poorly on a poor console, got 7 with a 2 years, I think this is reasonable within the course of 7-9 years.

I'd be genuinely surprised if this game continued to get content 3 years after it's release, let alone 7-9. It'd be more productive for Nintendo to stop making DLC and let the studio work on a different game instead.

But to answer your question, close to what we got with Smash 4.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Trust me, if I could have any XBC2 character in Smash, I would much rather have Nia or Morag. But the fact is Rex and Pyra are the main characters, so if anyone's gettin' in from that game, it's them.

Frankly, it's not even that I think others will get in, but just the fact we could entertain the idea of it by speculating how other XB2 characters would work that interest me. Speculation isn't always about things that are going to be 100% in, it's fun to talk about character who could give something new & interesting to the roster, ya know?

 

[Pakky]

Plus, dead/finished series, or character that hasn’t appeared in X amount of years or so, it counts as a form of publicity. People will wanna check out the games/series that character originated from

Hell, K. Rool’s trailer is making me wanna play the whole DKC SNES series — I’ve only played part of the first game!

I want them to make another (better)64. Lanky and Tiny are great!

 

[Thirdkoopa]

No Mother character is as highly requested as K.Rool.

okay so first off if we compare recently, almost no character was as highly requested as K. Rool and most characters don't even land close.

second, Masked Man was actually more popular than K. Rool (at least on plenty of forums) during the Brawl days. Samurai Goroh was pretty close, for that matter, too.

third, you have to also start comparing in their own franchises. It's silly to compare franchises too directly, or else we'd have 20 Mario and Pokemon characters lol.

there's no need to be so dismissive about an idea that we're all pretty positive is probably not going to happen anyways.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Frankly, it's not even that I think others will get in, but just the fact we could entertain the idea of it by speculating how other XB2 characters would work that interest me. Speculation isn't always about things that are going to be 100% in, it's fun to talk about character who could give something new & interesting to the roster, ya know?

Can we have Fiora from the DLC as a playable character?

 

[Starbound]

I've been thinking for a bit and I think I might have overthought the ballot's importance to the roster.

Inklings were an inevitability regardless of the ballot as the latest and most popular Nintendo IP between game launches. I don't know which fits Inkling better as both fit really well.

Ridley and K. Rool are popular picks, which I think is how the ballot ideas became mainstream over the past few days. But we always get a few popular picks: Peach and Bowser, Dedede and Diddy Kong, Little Mac and Villager and now Ridley and K. Rool. Until we get a larger sample size, I don't know if this is totally different.

Simon wasn't a popular pick at all. The second Konami character was always expected to be Bomberman, and Simon didn't become popular until Vergeben started looking legit. What we've been experiencing is the hype-induced confirmation bias. I even recall many people in this thread the night before the direct saying to remember that Simon wasn't predicted until Vergeben. Richter is a unique situation as a third party echo, so I don't know if he was as last minute as the other clones have been. But he was even less popular than Simon.

Chrom was popular from what I can recall, and a lot of the Dark Samus popularity was "well if we can't get Ridley..." pre-E3 2018. We don't know if echoes are last minute additions like in Smash 4 and Melee (given the concept was titled, my theory is that they knew they were going to have more clones, gave them a brand and decided who was going to be one later). Clones don't tend to follow any sort of patterns with preference to popularity or relevancy.

I guess under this lens, I don't find the picks in the GAF leak totally out there. We have the usual few popular picks (now including Isaac, Shadow and Isabelle), and the usual few 'out there' Sakurai picks (Prince Sable stands out like a sore thumb).

Or if that's wrong, maybe we can still get Elma or Gen 7 Pokemon.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Well by your logic, Castlevania is also a dead series but we still got Simon — AND Richter!

Also, Punch Out hasn’t had a game since the 2009 Wii release, and we got Little Mac as playable in 4.

I’m just saying

I think there's a difference between a legendary 3rd party series from the classic era and a first party with 3 games that already has 2 characters.

Likewise, Punch Out had no rep, unlike Earthbound, which had two.

This was a really bad comparison on your part imo

 

[Nazyrus]

Plus, dead/finished series, or character that hasn’t appeared in X amount of years or so, it counts as a form of publicity. People will wanna check out the games/series that character originated from

Hell, K. Rool’s trailer is making me wanna play the whole DKC SNES series — I’ve only played part of the first game!

If Sakurai has done something great every time, is to make people want to play games that are simply there in our hearts, no matter how relevant they are at the current date.

I'm kinda tired to see some people have this mindset of "this character or the other", "this one is more important than this one", "this one is more relevant", etc… Sakurai likes to please multiple franchises' fans, which is one of the reasons Smash has been always successfull.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Can we have Fiora from the DLC as a playable character?

Her spoiler form is more iconic though, seeing as how it also appeared in Project X Zone 2.

Maybe they could switch out the spoiler form from the Final Smash with her non-spoiler form? Or just

I’ll take Hom Fiora too this is fine

just have her like transform into her other form for her FS or something

 

[RileyXY1]

If any Mother/Earthbound character gets in, its probably Ninten as an Echo.

 

[Kuon]

Vergeben's leak (so far unconfirmed):

1. At least six new fighters including the recently confirmed Simon and King K. Rool (though whether or not Ridley and Inklings are a part of it is unknown).
2. Some Minecraft content--maybe a stage or an Assist Trophy (my guess is, it's the Stage Builder).
3. Isabelle--now updated as a likely Echo Fighter rather than a unique fighter.
4. A Pokémon from Gen 7--likely to be Incineroar.

In addition, Loz18 also stated that we'd be getting a ton more Echo Fighters and at least two more fighters--one of which being Skull Kid. Though shortly thereafter, he decided that he wasn't going to leak any more info, so his source may have been caught. He has disagreed on the Pokémon rep that Vergeben had leaked, which is why it's unconfirmed, believing that we probably aren't going to get a new Pokémon rep.

As far as characters like Isaac, Geno, Bandana Dee, Heihachi, etc., neither Vergeben nor Loz18 know for sure. But if I have to take a guess, Geno and Bandana Dee probably have the best shot at getting in alongside Skull Kid and maybe the Gen 7 Pokémon rep.

Okay thanks. I really hope he's not making any of this up, and that Isabelle is true, because she's all I really want

 

[Mc.Rad]

Earthbound does not need another character beyond Ninten as an echo given it is a dead 20+ year old game series. It might as well be the same as Duck Hunt or Ice Climber.

Same goes for F Zero and a Black Shadow echo.

Just because a game franchise isn't being updated doesn't mean it's necessarily dead...

This actually goes for Mother and F-Zero. Nintendo has shown that, no, franchises don't die. Remember Kid Icarus? Remember how people thought that it was just an NES one off like Ice Climbers and Star Tropics? Remember how in 2013 we got a lovingly crafted 3DS exclusive that revitalized the franchise in 3D and not only was it a good game but it established a new lore and personality for the series and made everybody fall in love with the franchise?

Loz18 has said that some characters are here to promote newer games coming out and I'm sure that we may see an F-Zero game or a Mother Spinoff/Remake in the future.

 

[DLEAF]

I want them to make another (better)64. Lanky and Tiny are great!

I noticed you forgot Chunky, but then I remembered he was in Smash 4!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I've been thinking for a bit and I think I might have overthought the ballot's importance to the roster.

Inklings were an inevitability regardless of the ballot as the latest and most popular Nintendo IP between game launches. I don't know which fits Inkling better as both fit really well.

Ridley and K. Rool are popular picks, which I think is how the ballot ideas became mainstream over the past few days. But we always get a few popular picks: Peach and Bowser, Dedede and Diddy Kong, Little Mac and Villager and now Ridley and K. Rool. Until we get a larger sample size, I don't know if this is totally different.

Simon wasn't a popular pick at all. The second Konami character was always expected to be Bomberman, and Simon didn't become popular until Vergeben started looking legit. What we've been experiencing is the hype-induced confirmation bias. I even recall many people in this thread the night before the direct saying to remember that Simon wasn't predicted until Vergeben. Richter is a unique situation as a third party echo, so I don't know if he was as last minute as the other clones have been. But he was even less popular than Simon.

Chrom was popular from what I can recall, and a lot of the Dark Samus popularity was "well if we can't get Ridley..." pre-E3 2018. We don't know if echoes are last minute additions like in Smash 4 and Melee (given the concept was titled, my theory is that they knew they were going to have more clones, gave them a brand and decided who was going to be one later). Clones don't tend to follow any sort of patterns with preference to popularity or relevancy.

I guess under this lens, I don't find the picks in the GAF leak totally out there. We have the usual few popular picks (now including Isaac, Shadow and Isabelle), and the usual few 'out there' Sakurai picks (Prince Sable stands out like a sore thumb).

Or if that's wrong, maybe we can still get Elma or Gen 7 Pokemon.

Well Simon IS popular, just that he wasn't talked about that much, especially due to the "no two third parties from the same company" fanrule and Snake. It's safe to say this judging by Project M including a Dracula's Castle stage and Sakurai saying "The legendary vampire hunter Simon Belmont FINALLY joins the roster" in the direct

 

[drag0nscythe]

I made a Goemon Support thread.

https://smashboards.com/threads/mys...ar-in-a-video-game-so-why-not-smash-u.457287/

Simon gives me hope. (For DLC atleast) or being an AT. or a trophy. Give us something Sakurai. please.

 

[BlueMagician]

I also want to see Nia, but I can't see her as an echo. Hmm.

Rex and friends will definitely be DLC though, since Xenoblade 2 itself is getting an expansion. (unless Sakurai went crazy and put them in the base at the last second)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think there's a difference between a legendary 3rd party series from the classic era and a first party with 3 games that already has 2 characters.

Likewise, Punch Out had no rep, unlike Earthbound, which had two.

This was a really bad comparison on your part imo

It's a bad comparison because the Mother series was finished ages ago.

Castlevania is an active franchise still.

There's nothing to compare to.