Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Verge is also the one saying Isabelle.

Isabelle most certainly isn't an echo if he's correct. He's never called an echo before.

He doesn't know if she's echo or not

So I feel she's not switch out bandana dee

Wait, Loz18 said we'll be getting Skull Kid???

He did he said possible but hey you got to give it credit

1 another character in the costume theory

2 the moon assist could be taking his place (stop saying the moon would be his final smash there's other options plus the moon could be e on honey triple rolled possibly)

3 he survived the onslaught twice

4 the ballot helps him out

5 another villian for the "heroes vs villains" theme which is looking promising of being real

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

This is exactly what I believe. It'd be suspect if Golden Sun, Monster Hunter, or Tekken/Tales of/Digimon have a logos on the music screen, or if Final Fantasy has a new logo and a bunch of music, or if there are multiple stages for series not even announced on the stage select screen.

Sakurai is the kinda guy to hold back information, and I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case even if the leak is fake.

Bro do you know how much money that would make? The engine is there, just make Final Fantasy 6 over it. It'd be perfect.

I also think Terra did well on the ballot, considering people wanted a Final Fantasy character, but didn't believe Cloud was eligible and voted for Terra instead. I think @Shroob made a good point about her being able to represent the series' core mechanics (i.e. magic and summons) better than Cloud.

That's me. I asked about Simon, K. Rool, and Chrom and they're playable.

But Ashley was also a "big yes" and we know how that went down.

If there's demand for this I'd be more than willing to create a DM group solely for analyzing credible leaks. Sessions and basic "leak" discussion would stay on this board, as I'm not willing to repeat the mistakes of the Smash 4 Leaks Group. Paging Verde Coeden Scalesworth , @IsmaR, and particularly Cyn to ask whether or not this is okay, or if they would prefer for all leak discussion to stay on this board.

The only thing is I'd need a premium member to make it though. As far as I understand I can only add a max of 10 people in a conversation since I'm a non-premium scrub.

For everyone wondering about the NeoGAF leak here's a discussion piece I did on it.

DM only? Sign me up my boi

Verge is also the one saying Isabelle.

Isabelle most certainly isn't an echo if he's correct. He's never called an echo before.

He's said he heard she's an echo though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...mate_newcomer_in_the_smash/e3zrfj0/?context=3

Edit: should probably clarify he heard from one source this is the case, my bad smh.

 

[KingBroly]

Possible Echo Fighters:
- Dr. Luigi
- Shadow
- Ken
- Akuma (Him or Ken)
- Dixie Kong
- Funky Kong
- Black Shadow
- Ninten
- Dry Bowser
- Impa
- Alph (The costume was a Misdirection?)
- Ms. Pac-Man
- Medusa
- Viridi (Her or Medusa)
- Octoling
- Meta Ridley (The costume was a Misdirection?)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Vergeben's leak (so far unconfirmed):

1. At least six new fighters including the recently confirmed Simon and King K. Rool (though whether or not Ridley and Inklings are a part of it is unknown).
2. Some Minecraft content--maybe a stage or an Assist Trophy (my guess is, it's the Stage Builder).
3. Isabelle--now updated as a likely Echo Fighter rather than a unique fighter.
4. A Pokémon from Gen 7--likely to be Incineroar.

In addition, Loz18 also stated that we'd be getting a ton more Echo Fighters and at least two more fighters--one of which being Skull Kid. Though shortly thereafter, he decided that he wasn't going to leak any more info, so his source may have been caught. He has disagreed on the Pokémon rep that Vergeben had leaked, which is why it's unconfirmed, believing that we probably aren't going to get a new Pokémon rep.

As far as characters like Isaac, Geno, Bandana Dee, Heihachi, etc., neither Vergeben nor Loz18 know for sure. But if I have to take a guess, Geno and Bandana Dee probably have the best shot at getting in alongside Skull Kid and maybe the Gen 7 Pokémon rep.

So two to four more unique fighters, one of which may be a non-Decidueye Pokemon and another may be Skull Kid.
All the Echo fighters, which may include Isabelle.
Minecraft content that isn't a player character (Creeper assist trophy, Minecraft skin on stage builder or Enderdragon boss in "Spirits"?)

Kinda matches up with my original expectations of 5-6 newcomers. Looks like we underestimated how many Echos they could make. This game could end up having as many additions as Melee at this rate.

Well, seems that Isabelle and Bandanna Dee are the ones to look out for along with Incenaroar and Gardevoir (B/W Gothitelle).

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Oh, Rex is totally happening (probably as DLC). Also, XC2 was well received in both Japan and North America and Rex looks kinda unique as a fighter, but i'm not too sure about Elma.

Honestly I'm unsure whether rex and pyra are actually gonna happen anymore, they've probably missed the boat for the base roster, and by the time they start working on DLC their game will be over a year old with a new game in the franchise probably on the way.

 

[blazefan519]

Vergeben's leak (so far unconfirmed):

1. At least six new fighters including the recently confirmed Simon and King K. Rool (though whether or not Ridley and Inklings are a part of it is unknown).
2. Some Minecraft content--maybe a stage or an Assist Trophy (my guess is, it's the Stage Builder).
3. Isabelle--now updated as a likely Echo Fighter rather than a unique fighter.
4. A Pokémon from Gen 7--likely to be Incineroar.

In addition, Loz18 also stated that we'd be getting a ton more Echo Fighters and at least two more fighters--one of which being Skull Kid. Though shortly thereafter, he decided that he wasn't going to leak any more info, so his source may have been caught. He has disagreed on the Pokémon rep that Vergeben had leaked, which is why it's unconfirmed, believing that we probably aren't going to get a new Pokémon rep.

As far as characters like Isaac, Geno, Bandana Dee, Heihachi, etc., neither Vergeben nor Loz18 know for sure. But if I have to take a guess, Geno and Bandana Dee probably have the best shot at getting in alongside Skull Kid and maybe the Gen 7 Pokémon rep.

Have they said anything at all about Singleplayer? I think the closest thing was Loz saying that there's a Heroes vs Villains theme correct?

 

[Deleted member]

Possible Echo Fighters:
- Alph (The costume was a Misdirection?)
- Meta Ridley (The costume was a Misdirection?)

Possible Unique Newcomers:
- Waluigi (The AT was a Misdirection?)

 

[Tree Gelbman]

DM only? Sign me up my boi




He's said he heard she's an echo though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...mate_newcomer_in_the_smash/e3zrfj0/?context=3

Still sounds like he has multiple sources about her and only one has said she's an echo.

To be fair? Still can't see it.

Sakurai wouldn't give a cutesy secretary an axe for example.

And there's not really anything you can do aesthetically to change it to fit her more.

A LOT of Villager's aesthetics don't fit her. And creatively there's not really a way around them like there is with the other echoes.

So I'd be shocked if this one source is right.

 

[dezeray112]

Speaking of how they will unveil the next set of Smash news for the next four months. I speculate that:

September: one echo and one newcomer.
October: one echo and one newcomer.
November: one echo and one newcomer.

 

[Noipoi]

Possible Unique Newcomers:
- Waluigi (The AT was a Misdirection?)

Don't you start this up again!

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Still sounds like he has multiple sources about her and only one has said she's an echo.

To be fair? Still can't see it.

Sakurai wouldn't give a cutesy secretary an axe for example.

And there's not really anything you can do aesthetically to change it to fit her more.

A LOT of Villager's aesthetics don't fit her. And creatively there's not really a way around them like there is with the other echoes.

So I'd be shocked if this one source is right.

For what it's worth, Isabelle can still be classified as an echo whilst giving her a move that functionally is entirely different from the character she's based on (see: Chrom).

 

[Deleted member]

Don't you start this up again!

I'm responding to absurdity with absurdity.
It's called satire.

 

[Nazyrus]

I would not be surprised if someone reading this thread made that.

It wasn't me I swear.

Nah but seriously I think it's too late to be afraid about someone here making leaks on 4chan and such. Altho to be fair, most of us here just want the real deal, so I doubt at the same time that there are that many people here with such intentions. I would still sleep on that leak for the time being, just for fun.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

*cracks knuckles* As someone who was disappointed with X and turned off so badly from 2 post release I can assure you it's not just the offputting anime look. Also, XCX isn't hard per se, just has a lot of unfair enemy placement and a final boss which can eat my ***.

That being said I'd prefer Elma because as disappointed as I was, I did enjoy things of the game and Xenoblade 2's writing team tries to pull off the same stunt the Emoji Movie did

I won't deny XB2's writing, because thats a fair point and most people will tell you that the story was predictable and average stuff. Still XB2 overall was better received then X.

 

[T-Hell]

If Isabelle is getting in it will be as an echo 99%.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Still sounds like he has multiple sources about her and only one has said she's an echo.

To be fair? Still can't see it.

Sakurai wouldn't give a cutesy secretary an axe for example.

And there's not really anything you can do aesthetically to change it to fit her more.

A LOT of Villager's aesthetics don't fit her. And creatively there's not really a way around them like there is with the other echoes.

So I'd be shocked if this one source is right.

One thought is they can easily give her a new model. I first though that Echoes were last minute, but there's no way Richter was. It doesn't make sense. Not when Simon and Richter are basically mishmashes of their abilities. Besides that, Chrom has way more work done on him than Dark Pit or Lucina, then you have Dark Samus' animations...

So I could see it happening. As for the ax? Make it a Toy Ax. They could make her look like she's all fun and games. I'd prefer unique, but an Echo could work if they put a bit of extra work into it. My guess is Echoes aren't necessarily just "beyond easy clones" anymore and so much as "fairly easy, but we can make an exception when it comes to some hard work".

 

[Metal Shop X]

Oh hey, peoples talking about XB2 and of course, they aren't talking about Nia or Morag...or Zeke...or anyone else at this point...

Call me the day where the XB2 character can be more than just Rex & Pyra, it be more interesting at this point.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm responding to absurdity with absurdity.
It's called satire.

Yeah I know, I was jokingly responding to your satire hence the exclamation point.
Lampy, you gotta stop assuming I don't know obvious things! Do you doubt me that much?

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Vergeben's leak (so far unconfirmed):

1. At least six new fighters including the recently confirmed Simon and King K. Rool (though whether or not Ridley and Inklings are a part of it is unknown).
2. Some Minecraft content--maybe a stage or an Assist Trophy (my guess is, it's the Stage Builder).
3. Isabelle--now updated as a likely Echo Fighter rather than a unique fighter.
4. A Pokémon from Gen 7--likely to be Incineroar.

In addition, Loz18 also stated that we'd be getting a ton more Echo Fighters and at least two more fighters--one of which being Skull Kid. Though shortly thereafter, he decided that he wasn't going to leak any more info, so his source may have been caught. He has disagreed on the Pokémon rep that Vergeben had leaked, which is why it's unconfirmed, believing that we probably aren't going to get a new Pokémon rep.

As far as characters like Isaac, Geno, Bandana Dee, Heihachi, etc., neither Vergeben nor Loz18 know for sure. But if I have to take a guess, Geno and Bandana Dee probably have the best shot at getting in alongside Skull Kid and maybe the Gen 7 Pokémon rep.

Corrections on some stuff:

*The "at least six new fighters" is in addition to the E3 reveals, so Ridley and Inklings aren't included in it.

*Vergeben hasn't committed to claiming Incineroar is in yet, he still claims it's only from one source with conflicting information and he has no corroboration on it from his other sources. What he has committed to so far is that there's a new pokemon who isn't Decidueye, Mimikyu, nor Lycanroc.

*Loz has no information about a Pokemon newcomer to corroborate nor conflict Vergeben's claims, it's just his own personal speculation that there won't be a gen 7 pokemon (he instead believes a gen 8 pokemon will happen, despite it being an impossibility from timing).

 

[Tree Gelbman]

For what it's worth, Isabelle can still be classified as an echo whilst giving her a move that functionally is entirely different from the character she's based on (see: Chrom).

We'll see.

But to make her feel like herself? You'd have to change A LOT about Villager's moveset.

The boxing gloves, the ax, the shovel, the balloon fighter recovery would look weird with her hairstyle, etc.

At that point? She's even further removed than Chrom.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I won't deny XB2's writing, because thats a fair point and most people will tell you that the story was predictable and average stuff. Still XB2 overall was better received then X.

Oh I'm not talking about the main story, I'm talking about the "WE HAVE A MORAL THAT IS VERY GOOD PLEASE DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO HOW WE'RE IGNORING IT". Emoji Movie's main message was "Come on girls, it's ok to break stereotypes!" because the Jailbreak girl or whatever was actually a princess but didn't want to be just a princess like all other girl emojis have to be. Which reminds you the main villain and the mother of the protag are girls and not princesses or anything like that. In XB2 it's "RESPECT WOMEN ALSO ALL WOMEN ARE EITHER LITTLE GIRLS OR WEAR SKIMPY CLOTHES AND HAVE BIG BADONKADONKS. BUT RESPECT WOMEN!". They even use a character who has a cleavage window just so they can shove her in cutscene camera angles to stare at boobs. I'll leave it at that because I caj go on for like, half an hour on the things I hate about that game beyond designs

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah I know, I was jokingly responding to your satire hence the exclamation point.
Lampy, you gotta stop assuming I don't know obvious things! Do you doubt me that much?

It's hard to tell on the internet, okay?
And for whatever reason I keep forgetting 16 is only a year younger than 17 so I underestimate you because of that.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

We'll see.

But to make her feel like herself? You'd have to change A LOT about Villager's moveset.

The boxing gloves, the ax, the shovel, the balloon fighter recovery would look weird with her hairstyle, etc.

At that point? She's even further removed than Chrom.

Yea but tell that to dark samus

Know to have no screw attack and no bomb and yet she still got them in smash ultimate

They could have hybrided the down special and up special from other characters

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Yea but tell that to dark samus

Know to have no screw attack and no bomb and yet she still got them in smash ultimate

Dark Samus is literally canonically a clone of Samus.

You have a lot more liberties with a being who is literally someone taking on the form of the character.

She was practically MADE for the echo role.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

I wouldn't say practically confirmed yet. But his chances are more likely given the reveals we got on Echoes. (Richter means 3rd parties can get echoes, Chrom proves they don't have to be 1:1 with the character they're echoing off though I imagine still have to be a similar character even for those other moves or an easy animation like a teleport)

I'm basically expecting him to be revealed in the next direct (Likely the final direct before base game). But I also think Tails is a slight dark horse to be the echo instead for a few reasons. Still think Shadow is more likely at the moment, but if there's an upset. I think Tails certainly could work with the new info we have on Echo Fighters.

Tails really can't work given he is shorter than Sonic by a notable amount, has shorter legs, can't use spikes for up throw because he has no quills. not to mention Shadow, even in Sonic games, has always been a clone/echo of Sonic already in games like SA2 and Heroes, so him being an echo for Sonic works far far far more, and would more appropriate for his character than any other echo seen thus far.

 

[Cyn]

-Snip-

What you and other people talk about in your PMs is up to you.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yea but tell that to dark samus

Know to have no screw attack and no bomb and yet she still got them in smash ultimate

They could have hybrided the down special and up special from other characters

What specials could they have used for Dark Samus then? Other than teleport, I can't think of anything the rest of the cast can do that fits. I say this as someone disappointed she didn't at least get a scattershot special

 

[perfectchaos83]

That's me. I asked about Simon, K. Rool, and Chrom and they're playable.

But Ashley was also a "big yes" and we know how that went down.

Just means the conspiracy theories are true!

But Not really. RIP

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Dark Samus is literally canonically a clone of Samus.

You have a lot more liberties with a being who is literally someone taking on the form of the character.

She was practically MADE for the echo role.

Yes but if you look at all appearances did she once do morph bombs or screw attacks?

The down b hybrid could have ben a counter of some sort

 

[Idon]

What specials could they have used for Dark Samus then? Other than teleport, I can't think of anything the rest of the cast can do that fits. I say this as someone disappointed she didn't at least get a scattershot special

If they wanted the easy way out? Assist Trophy moves. Those are interesting, unique, flashy, and provide an interesting playstyle.
If they wanted to go canon shmanon? Use all the moves from her games, like the laser, energy bubble, copy, etc etc.

One thing I came up with is instead of dropping a bomb, she could rocket herself at the opposing player like Sonic, like that one time she morphballed.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

What specials could they have used for Dark Samus then? Other than teleport, I can't think of anything the rest of the cast can do that fits. I say this as someone disappointed she didn't at least get a scattershot special

Probably puts up ben since she can fly up,like than

Down be would be that little phazon field she makes to counter/reflect projectiles

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yes but if you look at all appearances did she once do morph bombs or screw attacks?

The down b hybrid could have ben a counter of some sort

Dark Samus doesn't have any parry attacks or anything in her games either and just slapping a counter is lazy and always gets condemned when in a newcomer moveset unless it's K.Rool

 

[Zinith]

Zinith , you are going to have a ball tearing this to shreds!

Bouncing eggs raises my boi up 2 or 3 tiers in my opinion.

"Oh look, a Yoshi. I just have to out-range him and I'll be--"
*PLOP* "Ouch, what the--" *Punish*
"YOSHI!!!"

 

[Iridium]

Can we answer that I just don't see it?

ROB won't be the best but he's got a guaranteed kill confirm off of a burying throw, enhanced movement options via glide tossing, and other smaller general buffs. There's no way he is bottom tier.

It wasn't supposed to be serious, but I do see why people wouldn't like this.

 

[prowler12]

If there's demand for this I'd be more than willing to create a DM group solely for analyzing credible leaks. Sessions and basic "leak" discussion would stay on this board, as I'm not willing to repeat the mistakes of the Smash 4 Leaks Group. Paging Verde Coeden Scalesworth , @IsmaR, and particularly Cyn to ask whether or not this is okay, or if they would prefer for all leak discussion to stay on this board.

The only thing is I'd need a premium member to make it though. As far as I understand I can only add a max of 10 people in a conversation since I'm a non-premium scrub..

if it happens sign me up plz

 

[T-Hell]

I've been thinking about this topic about who we could root for and support to get in the game after finally getting huge names like Ridley and K.Rool, and I've been strongly thinking about another villain that could use some love, a character that has been growing on me, from a franchise that is still needed of a villain and would also add a lot of uniqueness when compared to the other two reps, a character that, besides being kind of evil, I can't help but love, and what a better time to get brought back to life, essentially, than Smash Bros Ultimate.

Now I know who to root for next, I'm definitely jumping in the bandwagon for Porky.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If they wanted the easy way out? Assist Trophy moves. Those are interesting, unique, flashy, and provide an interesting playstyle.
If they wanted to go canon shmanon? Use all the moves from her games, like the laser, energy bubble, copy, etc etc.
View attachment 157148

One thing I came up with is instead of dropping a bomb, she could rocket herself at the opposing player like Sonic, like that one time she morphballed.

The argument was about reusing someone else's moves for the attack though

Probably puts up ben since she can fly up,like than

Down be would be that little phazon field she makes to counter/reflect projectiles

You mean from the final Prime 2 fight? I guess PSI Magnet could get reused for that then. Nobody has a flight special like that though

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Oh hey, peoples talking about XB2 and of course, they aren't talking about Nia or Morag...or Zeke...or anyone else at this point...
View attachment 157147
Call me the day where the XB2 character can be more than just Rex & Pyra, it be more interesting at this point.

God, that game's art style is so bland and generic, it's almost embarrassing.

 

[Hinata]

Oh hey, peoples talking about XB2 and of course, they aren't talking about Nia or Morag...or Zeke...or anyone else at this point...
View attachment 157147
Call me the day where the XB2 character can be more than just Rex & Pyra, it be more interesting at this point.

Trust me, if I could have any XBC2 character in Smash, I would much rather have Nia or Morag. But the fact is Rex and Pyra are the main characters, so if anyone's gettin' in from that game, it's them.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Dark Samus doesn't have any parry attacks or anything in her games either and just slapping a counter is lazy and always gets condemned when in a newcomer moveset unless it's K.Rool

It's not a parry it's the field she creates to reflect bullets