Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mutsukki]

Honestly, the "Two Final Fantasy" songs is why I'm so damn suspect about the Neogaf leak last night.

I don't doubt that 'maybe' Square would let Sakurai use Terra, but at the same time, only music from FF7 would be really weird.

To be honest, I think we already have a soft deconfirmation of that leak and Terra, since FF's my music page specifically states it's for "Final Fantasy VII" and nothing more nothing less.

I'm not sure if this helps inciniroar or not

Why does rool know about inciniroar little trick in the concept art

That's a very common wrestling move, much like Bowser's dropkick.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm not sure if this helps inciniroar or not

Why does rool know about inciniroar little trick in the concept art

I don't think this helps or hinders Incineroar's chances in any way. it's a very common wrestling move and one move looking similar isn't enough to discount a character from the game, especially if their other moves are wildly different. Should Bowser be not be in because he shares some wrestler traits as well?

 

[Mc.Rad]

let's bring up a crazy possibility nobody in here has considered

While we know that Camelot is basically the last company that Nintendo basically has any stake in that doesn't have a character (last I checked) but... There's another studio that Nintendo owns 5% that should still be considered in the running.

Obviously not on-cart, but downloadable content? it's not the craziest idea I've heard.

Look, I'm gonna be honest here.

They would realistically add the Vulture from Mario 64 in before they would add a character from that company in... I didn't even know Nintendo owned any stock in it as well...

 

[Thirdkoopa]

What kinda character could Cygames even have?

Kinda what I've been wondering. Maybe something from Dragalia Lost? Granblue Fantasy? Shadowverse? Those stick out to me, especially Dragalia Lost since it's being co-developed w/ Nintendo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, the "Two Final Fantasy" songs is why I'm so damn suspect about the Neogaf leak last night.

I don't doubt that 'maybe' Square would let Sakurai use Terra, but at the same time, only music from FF7 would be really weird.

The same artist that made music before FFVII is not even part of Square-Enix. Even worse is that they're on bad terms with each other. This means that getting music might be an annoyance because SE is just being petty.

This ultimately has nothing to do at all with Geno, as it's unrelated. At least, if Nomua(did I spell that right) working with Sakurai is a problem or something for music problems.

They're not 100% different skeletons. Every single character is built with the same joint hierarchy, regardless of shape or size. The only differences in skeletons is joint placement in 3D space, and additional joints added to the end of the hierarchy if needed. You can, right now, go into Smash 4 and mod spinning kong on to Duck Hunt and he'll do the animation. It'll look stupid, but it will function. And that's without joint retargeting.

Joint retargeting is the technique that every modern game uses to allow the same animations to function on characters of different sizes. This technique does not shift the retargeted joints in 3D space (like you get when porting animations in Brawl, which gives you Ganonchu), it only reorients them. This is why in an online game with customizable characters, they can all do the same canned animations, or how Andy Serkis, a human shaped human, can perform motion capture for a chimpanzee.

Basically, it's like this. You take an arm. At it's most basic, it has three joints. The shoulder, the elbow, the wrist. You have an animation of a character with a long arm, and you want to port it on to a character with a smaller arm. As long as they have the same joint hierarchy, which all Smash characters do, you can retarget this animation on to the smaller model quite easily, and there's even math involved that can compensate for the fact that the joints would need to rotate less on the smaller arm to reach the same position as the longer one.

It's actually not nearly as much work as completely reanimating everything Dark Samus does. This technique was invented in the first place to save time.

Fair enough, but I don't know if having the same character builds is meaningful or not. I'm erring on the side of caution as shown with Chrom getting moves from near identical characters build(and skeleton)-wise first. I'd rather use the data we have then speculate wildly. I'm an analyzer that way, heh.

 

[Deleted member]

Chrom's slash looks far more like Marth's Up Tilt tbh, Chrom doesn't crouch like Ike for the startup

Wow. I mean, every single person on this planet can see that Chrom's Up B is literally Ike's aether. I've yet to see one reaction video that doesn't outright say so. Or even from people here, how are you even denying them being the same move is far beyond me.

I wasn't being serious with that post lol
But on a serious note, yes, the ending part is Aether but the start up slash IS NOT from Aether

Shish I'm trying to simplify it for people who don't play Ike, do I need to talk about the great battle of 1999 where I singlehandedly beat 7 Roys by myself as Ike on Temple?

tbf Nobuo Uematsu demands royalties for his songs on top of licencing fees. idk how he did it but songs originally composed by him are more expensive by default

But that initial slash is still nothing alike

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

as a rayman fan, i feel like he's now very unlikely to be in, and if he isn't in, he is dead for good. I don't think more than one western 3rd party character would ever get added as, and now Crash Bandicoot is a possible consideration again and is much more beloved and internationally known than Rayman, I think he would be added instead when they get around to choosing DLC fighters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Were Daisy, Richter, Chrom and Dark Samus possibly planned from the beginning?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Look, I'm gonna be honest here.

They would realistically add the Vulture from Mario 64 in before they would add a character from that company in... I didn't even know Nintendo owned any stock in it as well...

The Vulture from Mario 64? That's honestly a stretch. Now, of course we have to wait to see if we see any of their products actually come in Japan, but again, it's not the craziest thing they've held stake in.

I'm just entertaining it as a DLC possibility.

 

[Mutsukki]

I wasn't being serious with that post lol
But on a serious note, yes, the ending part is Aether but the start up slash IS NOT from Aether

Dang I got baited hard, sorry!

But yeah it does not look like anything from Ike, I agree.

 

[Noipoi]

Were Daisy, Richter, Chrom and Dark Samus possibly planned from the beginning?

I imagine every character was planned from the beginning. The roster is like, the first thing Sakurai makes.

 

[Shroob]

On second thought, let's not entertain the idea of Gacha games and Smash mixing.

 

[Deleted member]

On second thought, let's not entertain the idea of Gacha games and Smash mixing.

Hey everyone please go take a look in my Saber for Smash thread tyvm

...
Sorry what were you talking about again?

 

[Blue7113]

So if the newcomers are based off of the ballot and popularity among the fans, whose next? Will we be getting many more popular requests, a few more, or are we already done? Give me your thoughts and how you would rate your character.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I imagine every character was planned from the beginning. The roster is like, the first thing Sakurai makes.

I feel like at the end of the day however? The unique newcomers probably took priority and then the echos. So the echoes most likely were created as icing on the cake fan wants.

 

[Shroob]

Hey everyone please go take a look in my Saber for Smash thread tyvm

...
Sorry what were you talking about again?

1% gacha rate is bad civ

*Cries in no Jalter*

 

[Starbound]

Honestly, the "Two Final Fantasy" songs is why I'm so damn suspect about the Neogaf leak last night.

I don't doubt that 'maybe' Square would let Sakurai use Terra, but at the same time, only music from FF7 would be really weird.

If that GAF leak is right, we are probably getting more stages (I can't imagine them adding Heihachi and not giving him a stage, as well as Monster Hunter. Two Golden Sun characters stage-less would be weird, though I guess Melee gives a precedent). So if that's the case, the menus may be a WIP, music menu included.

 

[Mutsukki]

On second thought, let's not entertain the idea of Gacha games and Smash mixing.

I'm actually surprised we have yet to get a Smash Bros gacha on mobile. After Fire Emblem it's the next logical choice for Nintendo.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

On second thought, let's not entertain the idea of Gacha games and Smash mixing.

I.... don't see the problem with it, lol. If you think about it, they already have. We have Fire Emblem: Heroes, Mario run, Pokemon Go (and now a video game tying into that) and Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp.

Again though, I'm only entertaining it as a small, incredibly small possibility. Heck, maybe we could just see music or something else from Cygames and have that be the end of it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Chrom's slash looks far more like Marth's Up Tilt tbh, Chrom doesn't crouch like Ike for the startup

I wasn't being serious with that post lol
But on a serious note, yes, the ending part is Aether but the start up slash IS NOT from Aether

But that initial slash is still nothing alike

Again, simplification. Both do something with their sword to send the opponent upwards. Also I didn't care enough to type out every detail

ALSO! When Simon's trailer had him in danger before Richter crossed over, not gonna lie, I thought "Oh **** another character? Are we getting Alucard? Or Maria oh god Maria would be hype". And I'm a bit bummed Maria's likely just getting a trophy

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I have this strange feeling because of that Team Geno or Team Mallow thing?

Sakurai might have been a mad man and added them both.

They both have vastly different things they could do and both fit into Smash.

You know what...I wouldn't put it past him to do that. I mean, I expected Simon all along, and Richter being such a curveball was gravy to me. He might think it's weird to have 1/5th of the SMRPG party missing, too.

 

[Shroob]

I.... don't see the problem with it, lol. If you think about it, they already have. We have Fire Emblem: Heroes, Mario run, Pokemon Go (and now a video game tying into that) and Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp.

Again though, I'm only entertaining it as a small, incredibly small possibility. Heck, maybe we could just see music or something else from Cygames and have that be the end of it.

I'm not against the idea of characters, hell, I actually play Grandblue Fantasy in quite a hardcore manner, but the thought of Gacha practices touching Smash is scary.

 

[CroonerMike]

How would you guys feel if we got a monthly Smash Bros Direct leading up to December? So the website would just upload things that we already know, but the directs always bring new information that keeps adding to the website.

 

[zeldasmash]

I'd honestly rather have

or

They'd both fit perfectly for a reveal trailer

I just remembered, what about Never Turn Back, the ending theme for Shadow the Hedgehog?

 

[Mutsukki]

You know what...I wouldn't put it past him to do that. I mean, I expected Simon all along, and Richter being such a curveball was gravy to me. He might think it's weird to have 1/5th of the SMRPG party missing, too.

Assist Trophy, baby.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm not against the idea of characters, hell, I actually play Grandblue Fantasy in quite a hardcore manner, but the thought of Gacha practices touching Smash is scary.

It wouldn't be practices touching Smash - just a character (or something else)

Granted, I can see what you mean since it'd primarily advertise a Gacha.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

On second thought, let's not entertain the idea of Gacha games and Smash mixing.

Yeah, Fallout already added *twitch* card pack based leveling so that's enough of that.

On the topic of rumors, I made a Gothitelle support thread because if my brain latches onto a rumor I may as well go all in.
Rumor aside, I like the Pokemon and would have use it if I wasn't stuck with the strange psychic cells in my version. Now if only it would get a mega evolution.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

How would you guys feel if we got a monthly Smash Bros Direct leading up to December? So the website would just upload things that we already know, but the directs always bring new information that keeps adding to the website.

As long as it'd be at the start of each month.

Assist Trophy, baby.

That's likely too, though we'll see what happens.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Were Daisy, Richter, Chrom and Dark Samus possibly planned from the beginning?

Richter was likely planned along with Simon almost immediately. Simon's moves are a cross between the two, hence why an Echo is easy. Plus, it's a 3rd party Echo. Licensing has to be done beforehand. He already had to license to use Richter's design entirely, so the Echo bit might've happened a bit later during Simon's development. It's a bit harder to say, considering licensing wouldn't change anything if he was an alt first.

There's no way to tell for the other ones, though. I'm guessing they were too, However, it also makes sense why they have more uniqueness than Dark Pit and Lucina, because they aren't last minute. Besides that, no licensing issues, so they can be decided right away or later on.

 

[Will]

On second thought, let's not entertain the idea of Gacha games and Smash mixing.

You're 17 years too late.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I used to be on the Monster Hunter character train, but Sakurai has NEVER shown a series having an assist trophy or stage before giving said series a character.

It's like giving the desert before the main course.

The slice of pie before your steak and fries if you will.

 

[Noipoi]

I feel like at the end of the day however? The unique newcomers probably took priority and then the echos. So the echoes most likely were created as icing on the cake fan wants.

That could be true as well, and original characters definitely were top priority, but I feel like this was all planned from the start.

So if the newcomers are based off of the ballot and popularity among the fans, whose next? Will we be getting many more popular requests, a few more, or are we already done? Give me your thoughts and how you would rate your character.

Well. Incineroar is a Gen 7 Pokemon. While it is true that there is no guarantee we get a Pokemon newcomer, I feel like simply being a gen 7 Pokemon makes Incineroar pretty likely. It doesn't even have to be Incineroar. Lycanroc, Buzzwole, Decidueye, I just love Alola and I want it represented in a fighter.

 

[Shroob]

I used to be on the Monster Hunter character train, but Sakurai has NEVER shown a series having an assist trophy or stage before giving said series a character.

It's like giving the desert before the main course.

The steak and the fries before your slice of pie if you will.

While I agree, I'm not counting it out 'just' yet until we get another content dump.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

How would you guys feel if we got a monthly Smash Bros Direct leading up to December? So the website would just upload things that we already know, but the directs always bring new information that keeps adding to the website.

A direct every month?! YES PLEASE.

also I wanna return to the uncertainty over Elma’s relevancy from earlier - there’s always a possibility of a Xenoblade X Switch port being announced, perhaps even a “definitive edition” with content that’s not in the Wii U version. And to not give any explicit spoilers, there’s a sequel hook at the end, so there will most likely be a sequel, especially with how well X was received in the West.

Them’s my two cents

 

[Mc.Rad]

How would you guys feel if we got a monthly Smash Bros Direct leading up to December? So the website would just upload things that we already know, but the directs always bring new information that keeps adding to the website.

Honestly, I would REALLY REALLY LOVE THAT...

It would definitely help with the drought we had last month...

 

[Nazyrus]

View attachment 157038

This is what the final roster would look like if that leak is real. Throwing Heihachi in as the Namco rep because, c'mon, it's ****ing Heihachi.


It looks odd.

It's either Heihachi oooooor… Lloyd would be my bet. Let's see what comes true in the end, if there is indeed a bandai namco character yet to be announced lol

 

[Deleted member]

I used to be on the Monster Hunter character train, but Sakurai has NEVER shown a series having an assist trophy or stage before giving said series a character.

It's like giving the desert before the main course.

The steak and the fries before your slice of pie if you will.

I already agreed with the sentiment that a Monster Hunter character was unlikely after Rathalos but I wasn't sure why. This is very well put.
Also now I'm hungry dammit.

 

[Will]

If we had a direct every month, and we have 3 months left, what exactly would you put in those 3 directs?

The main meat is obviously a character reveal, but what else? You could obviously go in-depth on Spirits, but that's just one direct. What happens after that, going over Online mode? It sounds like 2 Directs are more useful than 3.

 

[vaanrose]

Fair enough, but I don't know if having the same character builds is meaningful or not. I'm erring on the side of caution as shown with Chrom getting moves from near identical characters build(and skeleton)-wise first. I'd rather use the data we have then speculate wildly. I'm an analyzer that way, heh.

I don't think DK and Dixie really have that disparate of builds, myself. DK's just bigger. You can just scale down his move, imo, and then it'd be reanimated anyway to fit her.

 

[Noipoi]

How would you guys feel if we got a monthly Smash Bros Direct leading up to December? So the website would just upload things that we already know, but the directs always bring new information that keeps adding to the website.

I would love that! No more droughts! No more boring blog posts! Fresh info every month! If only...

If we had a direct every month, and we have 3 months left, what exactly would you put in those 3 directs?

The main meat is obviously a character reveal, but what else? You could obviously go in-depth on Spirits, but that's just one direct. What happens after that, going over Online mode? It sounds like 2 Directs are more useful than 3.

That's...that's a good question. I guess that's why we're probably only getting one more.