Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Icedragonadam]

So here's another game, since Simon, a newcomer 3rd party character got an echo, what would your wanted 3rd party character's echo be?

Lloyd Irving- Cless Alvein(Tales of Phantasia)
Ryu Hayabusa- Kasumi?
Reimu- Marisa or Sanae
Arle Nadja- Amitie

 

[SonicMario]

I'd prefer I Am (All Of Me) getting in as Shadow's theme in the game. I never really cared for All Hail Shadow. Was too cheesy even for Sonic standards.

Throw It All Away would also be fine if they wanted to go all in on SA2 Nostalgia.

Though I also wouldn't mind This Machine from Sonic Heroes.

 

[11th]

Do note that the first match as Kirby, he has to fight with that bloody mushroom on his head which reverses his controls.

Actually, that was just the usual item effect. The Japanese cut of the Direct has a different take of Kirby winning without the mushroom.


Anyway, this seems to be the general Ultimate thread and I'm not sure where else this would fit, so here's a little thing I noticed: So far every character has only featured in one animated reveal trailer. (Excluding the silhouettes from Inkling's. That doesn't really count as "featuring" a character.) Probably doesn't mean much, but I like weird bits of trivia.

The list, for those interested:

Spoiler

Has Been Featured:

Has Not:

ultshulk:

It's nice to see a bit of variety as opposed to 3DS/Wii U's "Oh, look, there's Mario. And Mario. And Mario..."

 

[Cosmic77]

raises hand

Maybe Elma wouldn’t need the ballot? X was already out in Japan by the time the ballot was out. And yes I know X wasn’t as popular in Japan as it was in the West, but if that’s the case, Sakurai could have picked Elma on his own volition, not due to fan outcry.

Simon and the insane amount of Castlevania content shows us that Sakurai is still adding his own personal touch to the roster. If he was going completely off fan demand from the ballot, Shovel Knight wouldn't have been an AT and we probably would've gotten Bomberman as the Konami rep instead.

I think Elma has a chance, but that really just depends on whether or not Sakurai thought she was worthy of one of the limited spots for a unique newcomer. It'll be an uphill battle for her.

Link being in the same tier as Toon Link and Zelda... No. Just no.
Also, Bayonetta is still way too high up there. Should be F tier, smh.

G tier, for "Get out".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only one that was revealed in a trailer was Richter and that was purely because he shared his with Simon.

Lucina too, and for the same reason, because it was with Robin.

We don't know if an Echo will ever get their own personal trailer. Shadow could, or he might not.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

As neat as it'd be to have a Pokemon from each generation, I highly doubt this would be the case. If we were to get a Gen III Pokemon, it'd likely be Sceptile, since he had a decent following during Smash 4 DLC. Gen V could be Zoroark, since Zoroark was a decently popular Pokemon and the 'Lucario' of Gen V, or Genesect since it also had a movie like Zoroark did.

Even with Gardevoir's popularity, I don't see this one happening. Especially along with a Gothitelle 'Echo' of all things.

The idea with the Gardevoir + Gothielle Echo happening is that Sakurai wouldn't want to spend the resources on more than one Pokemon newcomer, so to be able to get both gen 3 and 5 a playable character one would have to be an Echo, thus he would have to pick a popular pokemon he can envision a Smash design for that he likes that also has a workable Echo in the other gen. So this would disqualify the likes of Sceptile and Zoroark from being chosen and lead to a Gothielle Echo happening.

'just curious, was there any Pokemon character that was very popular on the ballot?

'cuz as of now, the newcomers seem to be mostly coming from the ballot (King.K.Rool being the biggest exemple), so maybe we should expect the Pokemon who were the most highly ranked.

Sceptile may have done decent because of the "we need a grass starter!" push at the time, but as a whole no individual pokemon really gets much support, because of the astronomical amount of popular and Smash viable options there are, meaning votes would be really spread out. As someone explained earlier in the thread, it's probable with all Pokemon votes tallied together it would have been one of the highest vote getters (similar to how there was high demand for a Final Fantasy character but no individual Final Fantasy character had significant demand), so Sakurai could choose a pokemon because of the Ballot but not necessarily the highest vote getter. For what he could based the choice on, it could be representing gens that missed out on a playable character, as the big complaint with Pokemon's playable roster since Brawl is the overabundance of gen 1 pokemon and half the gens not having any playable pokemon, which could have been a common trend put into the reasoning field on Ballot votes and thus be recognized as what the fans want.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Lucina too, and for the same reason, because it was with Robin.

We don't know if an Echo will ever get their own personal trailer. Shadow could, or he might not.

Dark Pit also appeared in Palutena’s trailer, but that was more lampshading as DP didn’t have a tag line then.

 

[Deleted member]

Lucina too, and for the same reason, because it was with Robin.

We don't know if an Echo will ever get their own personal trailer. Shadow could, or he might not.

That too, but it's the same principle. I was talking specifically about Ultimate
And so far no Echo got thir own reveal trailer. I don't see why Shadow would be any different.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So here's another game, since Simon, a newcomer 3rd party character got an echo, what would your wanted 3rd party character's echo be?

Lloyd Irving- Cless Alvein(Tales of Phantasia)
Ryu Hayabusa- Kasumi?
Reimu- Marisa or Sanae
Arle Nadja- Amitie

Crash Bandicoot - Coco Bandicoot
Rayman - Globox (?)

 

[Noipoi]

Alright, filled out this template!

I couldn't choose between Ultra Space or Bowser Kingdom, so I went with both!
Necrozma would change into Dusk Mane Necrozma, Dawn Wings Necrozma, and finally Ultra Necrozma during the fight.
Also, excuse the tiny Quote. It was the best pic I could find .

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dark Pit also appeared in Palutena’s trailer, but that was more lampshading as DP didn’t have a tag line then.

It's quite possible he wasn't even a character yet. Lucina was when the CGI trailer was made. He also isn't listed as a newcomer on the site either, for some reason.

That too, but it's the same principle. I was talking specifically about Ultimate
And so far no Echo got thir own reveal trailer. I don't see why Shadow would be any different.

Yeah. I could see Shadow being an exception, but I wouldn't bank on it.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

The only one that was revealed in a trailer was Richter and that was purely because he shared his with Simon.

No I mean

 

[Deleted member]

No I mean

Not the same thing as a reveal trailer.

 

[SonicMario]

No I mean

He means full-on CGI trailers rather then just Gameplay like Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus all got.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Just to add on to this, Inklins also killed it on the ballot. So they're relevant but the ballot also played a factor with them.

I don't disagree with this in any capacity but let's be real here

unless EVERY CHARACTER is a ballot/popular vote choice choice (which isn't impossible; i'm not dismissing this possibility), inklings were going to get in anyways. I don't think there's no shot for "characters since the last Smash game" but the only two that particularly strike out to me, beyond the Inklings, are Isabelle and Gen 7 Pokemon.

Not that I'm saying other "characters since the last Smash game" won't be in, just that they're a coin toss at best to speculate over and we really don't have enough data to lean towards one conclusion or another.

 

[Mutsukki]

Plus he still has his throw from Wario World, but eh his gameplay features keep changing in his games anyway. I'm more bothered about his character amount still being "Me! Me! Meeeeee! Wa-Ri-O!", especially since Ashley fans are let down yet again.

Unless he keeps actively rigging the official polls so no one steals his spotlight.

Eh, Wario was never anything more than that though and that's exactly why people love him. The only thing WarioWare did was add fart jokes and a bit of grossness to his character, if anything the latest WarioWare was very on point on what Wario is. I don't think Smash represents Wario perfectly, but it isn't bad either and his bike is super recognizable and was indeed in WarioWare Gold I dunno what people are talking about lol.

 

[MainJPW]

Now for a new discussion topic, for the inevitable confirmation of Shadow, do you prefer his reveal trailer theme to be this one?

​

Or this one?

​

I'd rather have Throw It All Away TBH.

For the SA2 debut nostalgia. And it's a ****ing cool theme.

 

[MSmariosonic]

You know...

I'm kinda happy we didn't get these 'pure' newcomers during the smash 4 dlc era.

The dlc for smash 4 didn't use cgi in their reveal trailers unlike in ultimate. Which to makes a character reveal overall better.

Eh, now that I think about it. Corrin's was the only one with an actual cinematic part in it.

smh

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Simon and the insane amount of Castlevania content shows us that Sakurai is still adding his own personal touch to the roster. If he was going completely off fan demand from the ballot, Shovel Knight wouldn't have been an AT and we probably would've gotten Bomberman as the Konami rep instead.

I think Elma has a chance, but that really just depends on whether or not Sakurai thought she was worthy of one of the limited spots for a unique newcomer. It'll be an uphill battle for her.



G tier, for "Get out".

Simon is a pretty big deal on his own, so he still fits the pattern we see with the unique Ultimate newcomers. And really, assumptions about how many characters a third-party characters can get and later people's pessimism regarding Konami are the things that really hurt vocal support for Simon, not a lack of appeal.

Also, before you bring up Richter, he's just a bonus echo fighter and thus isn't a valid counterpoint.

 

[Starbound]

So I was talking about Chrom recently offsite. He doesn't use any of Ike's moves, at least not Aether. It's a modification more of how he grips the sword like Roy.

So what is Chrom using for, presumably, his Up Special? Marth and Roy have no move like that.

 

[Bayopuff]

So is Shadow practically confirmed now?

 

[vaanrose]

It's not the craziest roster but I'm starting to think the Roy/Chrom thing was a stupidly lucky guess. At this point, at least one of our 'plausible leaks' (the codes, this guy, loz18, vergeben) has to be false purely by contradictions. At this point, it may be interesting to just create a DM group analyzing anything that's super plausible (especially so we don't clutter up the thread or posts getting lost in the thread).

My opinion on the Chrom is Roy (for some reason) thing is, yes, we almost all just assumed he'd be Ike. But I don't think it's unpredictable to say he'd be Roy. If you assume a character can have only one echo, which rules out Marth, and that echoes can't get echoes themselves, which rules out Lucina, you're down to just the two options, Ike and Roy. Then it's just a question of you do go with the herd and assume he'd be Ike, or do you take a guess that he'd be Roy?

In retrospect, making him Roy instead of Ike is such a Sakurai thing to do, since it's more "canon" to keep him similar to Lucina and because he literally uses the same sword, so it'd be weird for it to suddenly be heavy like Ragnell . I wouldn't put it past someone putting those pieces together themselves, particularly if they're a Fire Emblem fan and would want him to be more canon.

 

[prowler12]

So is Shadow practically confirmed now?

nope, he has a small chance of not making it

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Eh, Wario was never anything more than that though and that's exactly why people love him. The only thing WarioWare did was add fart jokes and a bit of grossness to his character, if anything the latest WarioWare was very on point on what Wario is. I don't think Smash represents Wario perfectly, but it isn't bad either and his bike is super recognizable and was indeed in WarioWare Gold I dunno what people are talking about lol.

Nah, I don't mind his personality or Smash moveset at all (I'm a Wah supporter) , I meant to say that his Smash roster is still paltry. It's one thing for Syrup to not be around, that's expected, but his WW supporting cast still not being in playable form about 11 years since Brawl is getting concerning.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So what is Chrom using for, presumably, his Up Special? Marth and Roy have no move like that.

Actually, it is. That's literally a modification of Blazer/Dolphin Slash at the start. However, I did legit post too soon. He does have the final animation from Ike.

Not that it much changes my key point either way; Echoes only have attack animation from characters with near identical models/skeletons. This is why I don't think Dixie Kong will get a modified version of Spinning Kong right out. It's more likely she'll have her hair as a prop and have a hard animation created for it, while it might use some of the frame data, possibly of R.O.B.'s spinning move, as it may have an actual better animation to pull from. Functionally and conceptually, it'll obviously be akin to Spinning Kong. But that's kind of like how Lucario's Counter is similar to the FE cast's Counter. It doesn't work the same way, just a similar concept.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I actually dislike Wario's moveset. Nothing really speaks WarioWare nor Wario Land. the guy doesnt even use his bike anymore in warioware

He uses his bike in WarioWare gold, Not to mention, Mario doesn't use F.L.U.D.D. Yet it's still a fun move.

 

[SonicMario]

So is Shadow practically confirmed now?

I wouldn't say practically confirmed yet. But his chances are more likely given the reveals we got on Echoes. (Richter means 3rd parties can get echoes, Chrom proves they don't have to be 1:1 with the character they're echoing off though I imagine still have to be a similar character even for those other moves or an easy animation like a teleport)

I'm basically expecting him to be revealed in the next direct (Likely the final direct before base game). But I also think Tails is a slight dark horse to be the echo instead for a few reasons. Still think Shadow is more likely at the moment, but if there's an upset. I think Tails certainly could work with the new info we have on Echo Fighters.

 

[T-Hell]

I found somebody who made this joke tier list on Reddit. How would react to see your main or any character where they are?

I don't want see Link that low, or Toon Link, Mega Man, Fox, Mewtwo, Greninja, Wolf, and about any character I care about.

Meh, I couldn't give less of a **** about competitive nor their boring and repetitive use of characters, never have. Life taught me to have fun by myself.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Not the same thing as a reveal trailer.

but they were revealed

in a trailer

with music fitting for their entrance

 

[RawstyleEevee]

I think we have only 2-3 Unique newcomers left, which imo are the rumored Skull Kid and the Gen 7 mon.

The last rep Is either going to be a surprise 3rd party or a Xenoblade rep (either Elma or Rex & Pyra as a Greninja situation)

Although I think I'll give it to the surprise 3rd party, because I feel they want to go out with a bang with the final reveal

 

[DJ3DS]

I found somebody who made this joke tier list on Reddit. How would react to see your main or any character where they are?

I don't want see Link that low, or Toon Link, Mega Man, Fox, Mewtwo, Greninja, Wolf, and about any character I care about.

Can we answer that I just don't see it?

ROB won't be the best but he's got a guaranteed kill confirm off of a burying throw, enhanced movement options via glide tossing, and other smaller general buffs. There's no way he is bottom tier.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

My opinion on the Chrom is Roy (for some reason) thing is, yes, we almost all just assumed he'd be Ike. But I don't think it's unpredictable to say he'd be Roy. If you assume a character can have only one echo, which rules out Marth, and that echoes can't get echoes themselves, which rules out Lucina, you're down to just the two options, Ike and Roy. Then it's just a question of you do go with the herd and assume he'd be Ike, or do you take a guess that he'd be Roy?

In retrospect, making him Roy instead of Ike is such a Sakurai thing to do, since it's more "canon" to keep him similar to Lucina and because he literally uses the same sword, so it'd be weird for it to suddenly be heavy like Ragnell . I wouldn't put it past someone putting those pieces together themselves, particularly if they're a Fire Emblem fan and would want him to be more canon.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Part of the reason I want to believe in this so much (see: pretty much all) is Isaac+Felix.

nope, he has a small chance of not making it

This but I'd just like to point out, we're on a timeline where Isabelle (possibly not an echo), Shadow, Ken, and Dixie are the most likely Echo's and the most likely/guessable newcomers are Isaac, Geno, Skull Kid, and Gen 7 poke, and if Verge is to be believed, possibly Banjo Kazooie

As someone who's been around for a long time, words can't tell you how comical this is to me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Actually, it is. That's literally a modification of Blazer/Dolphin Slash at the start. However, I did legit post too soon. He does have the final animation from Ike.

Not that it much changes my key point either way; Echoes only have attack animation from characters with near identical models/skeletons. This is why I don't think Dixie Kong will get a modified version of Spinning Kong right out. It's more likely she'll have her hair as a prop and have a hard animation created for it, while it might use some of the frame data, possibly of R.O.B.'s spinning move, as it may have an actual better animation to pull from. Functionally and conceptually, it'll obviously be akin to Spinning Kong. But that's kind of like how Lucario's Counter is similar to the FE cast's Counter. It doesn't work the same way, just a similar concept.

Irene you are deadass WRONG. it's literally Aether but he doesn't throw the sword. He even swings his sword which launches upwards to start off the attack and then combo into the spinny stuff.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

nope, he has a small chance of not making it

He's like Ken Masters. Very likely to get in but non 100% certain

 

[Mc.Rad]

Hardlock: Deathborn
Most Wanted First Party: Chibi-Robo
Most Wanted Third Party: Doom Slayer
Will get Their Chance Another Day: Waluigi
Most Wanted Boss: Kraid
Most Wanted Assist: Metal Gear Mk. II
Most Wanted Pokeball Pokemon: Conkeldurr
Most Wanted Stage Setting: Cave of the Past and Studiopolis Zone

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Irene you are deadass WRONG. it's literally Aether but he doesn't throw the sword. He even swings his sword which launches upwards to start off the attack and then combo into the spinny stuff.

Which is what Blazer does. An upward slash. It's still a modification of Roy's move overall. That's literally how it works. At first. It's a combo move overall that borrows from both.

Not that it matters, since we still know why it all worked out. Ike, Marth, Chrom, and Roy all share similar builds, so pulling animations from another is easy. What it doesn't mean is that an Echo can have any move from any character. Chrom just proves that they can borrow animations from a character with a similar build.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Someone made a Templare for Smash Bros Ultimate Wishes

Spoiler

Here are my picks

Spoiler

Finally home so I can fill this in...

With Dark Samus in, I think Dixie's the single most likely character (Diddy Echo, possibly with a bit of difference for hair). For uniques, I'm betting BDee. I'd love to see Dovahkiin and Urbosa, but I can't decide which of the two has less of a chance, unfortunately. Still, Tails and Skull Kid would make me really happy. And I'm expecting Waluigi is on Nintendo's radar now after that hysteria.

As much as I want a Skyrim Stage and Alduin as a boss, I saved those spots for something else since, without Dovahkiin, they're also unlikely. However, Tetris has always been my first stage to create in the stage builder, and I'd love one that involves actual crushing hazards and the potential for getting launched when the computer completes a row. Ganon would make a great boss as well, particularly in his BotW or HW incarnations. Arcanine is one of my favorite Pokémon, and I wish he got more love, so an assist would be perfect. I see him using Extremespeed to dash around the stage and bite characters with Fire Fang. Also, he'd rideable in Let's Go, so that could be possible here as well. I'd also love some Soul Calibur representation since Namco's on board. As cool as a playable Ivy would be, I feel Nightmare would get in first, so I'll take what I can get.

 

[Bayopuff]

I found somebody who made this joke tier list on Reddit. How would react to see your main or any character where they are?

I don't want see Link that low, or Toon Link, Mega Man, Fox, Mewtwo, Greninja, Wolf, and about any character I care about.

The Puff is in the A Tier, what more can a guy ask for? It'd be a dream come true, if I'm being honest...

The Ice Climbers in the D Tier is so disheartening though... Even though that's probably where they'll end up in the official game...

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Now for a new discussion topic, for the inevitable confirmation of Shadow, do you prefer his reveal trailer theme to be this one?

Or this one?

I'd honestly rather have

or

They'd both fit perfectly for a reveal trailer

 

[Starbound]

Actually, it is. That's literally a modification of Blazer/Dolphin Slash at the start. However, I did legit post too soon. He does have the final animation from Ike.

What do you mean? I'm not sure how it can be Blazer with Ragnell's animation...