Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Brawl-exclusive Assist Trophies that are MIA

• Barbara
• Excitebikes
• Helirin
• Isaac
• Jill
• Resetti
• Ray MK III

Smash 4 Assist Trophies that are MIA

• Chain Chomp
• Devil
• Dillon
• Elec Man
• Infantry and Tanks
• Isabelle
• Kat and Ana
• Lakitu
• Magnus
• Nightmare
• Phosphora
• Sablé Prince
• Saki
• Shadow
• Skull Kid
• Tingle

 

[Zinith]

Damn so Skull Kid is still vulnerable. I didn't even know I wanted him till literally two days ago which is dumb because he is my favorite Nintendo villain.

The biggest piece of evidence for his inclusion is the existence of the Moon AT. It might have replaced Skull Kid

 

[cothero]

Is there another leak going around?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

That's pretty good news, although there's no telling how many more characters will get past the next AT massacre.

In the most literal sense, 11 to 20 will fall. We just don't know whether the remaining trophies are Ballot consolations or things like Ninten-cat which falls asleep on the HUD.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Fair point on the Galacta Knight costume, though I do think it is possible to differentiate Galacta Knight due to the different shaped weapon, white wings and the shield (if it makes it in). I haven't played Kirby in a long time, but an image search is telling me that Galacta Knight lacks a cape, another visual difference. Visual differences aren't that big of a deal for echoes, as Marth and Lucina, in default colors, are basically identical. Dark Pit and Pit have costumes that mirror each other, with the only difference being wing colors.

That is a fair point. Though I will argue that Marth is much more vivid and bright color-wise than Lucina. It makes sense with the styles of both of their games. Marth's games were always colorful, but Awakening had a very "dull" sort of color tone. Like some sort of solemn undertone about the color scheme. Honestly, Chrom is the brightest thing in Awakening.

We do know that Pit got some completely new colors now, but we've yet to see Dark Pit's colors to make comparisons. So all we have for reference is Samus. I mean, Mario has technically always had Wario's classic colors, but he's so strikingly different that it's hard to confuse the two.

As for Soren, the leaker made a point of saying Soren's sword attacks are reanimated to be dagger attacks, referencing a possible weapon for him in FE9.

This, however, I was unaware of. After double checking, yes Soren can use a dagger...potentially. And only if the player chooses it, and only in Path. He can't use a dagger in Dawn.

I just can't fathom the idea of this being an Echo. I'm all for more Path and Dawn representation, but I find it nonsensical to choose Soren over Celica as a Robin Echo. Like, why?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The biggest piece of evidence for his inclusion is the existence of the Moon AT. It might have replaced Skull Kid

Except not really since Moon doesn't do anyting Skull Kid did.

 

[Pyra]

Can cofirm. They said over 50 and 40 have been show. How many missing Smash 4 trophies left is the real question tho.

I only did a real quick comparison of the lists on SSBwiki so I could have missed something, and the lists may not be totally up to date. And this is just Smash 4.

Chain Chomp
Devil
Dillon
Elec Man
Infantry and Tanks
Isabelle
Kat & Ana
Lakitu and Spinies
Magnus
Nightmare
Phosphora
Sable Prince
Saki Amamiya
Shadow the Hedgehog
Skull Kid
Tingle (Or not, because of the stage)

Ninja'd but whatever lmao

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Ninja'd but whatever lmao

I'm used to this.

Ask Golden :V

 

[Pyra]

I'm used to this.

Ask Golden :V

I'll take your word for it. Haha.

 

[Noipoi]

Gothitelle would definitely need a unique FS.

If Gardevoir's would be Mega Garde, Gothitelle can't Mega-Evolve.

Gothitelle's Final Smash could be the psychic Z-Move. Z-Move's are already Pokemon Final Smashes anyway.

 

[Zinith]

Except not really since Moon doesn't do anyting Skull Kid did.

It does make him more probable due to being connected with each other. If Skull Kid were to be an AT it kinda seems like spreading the Majora's Mask theme thin a bit...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'll take your word for it. Haha.

Also, I wouldn't count Tingle out yet.

If Alfonzo can replace Toon Link in Spirit Train, then obviously David Jr. will step in for Tingle at some point :V

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Brawl-exclusive Assist Trophies that are MIA

• Barbara
• Excitebikes
• Helirin
• Isaac
• Jill
• Resetti
• Ray MK III

Smash 4 Assist Trophies that are MIA

• Chain Chomp
• Devil
• Dillon
• Elec Man
• Infantry and Tanks
• Isabelle
• Kat and Ana
• Lakitu
• Magnus
• Nightmare
• Phosphora
• Sablé Prince
• Saki
• Shadow
• Skull Kid
• Tingle

Of them Isaac, Isabelle, Sable Prince, Dillon, Saki, Shadow, Skull Kid and possibly Tingle are all in the running. Removing them that leave us with 15 total and 9 from 4 alone.

 

[Starbound]

I was just thinking again about the GAF leak in relationship to the stage screen. If the music menu is from an older build as I'm speculating, the stage menu probably would be too.

We have 6 open slots on it. I'm assuming one space gets left open to be for future DLC stages, so I have 5 stages to work with. Even if not, the 3DS menu also provides a precedent for leaving one empty slot (which became it's DLC button btw).

The GAF leak adds 4 more new franchises to Smash: Golden Sun, Monster Hunter, For Frogs the Bell Tolls (or w/e Sable's game is called) and, presumably, Tekken. I would also imagine Terra comes with her own stage since she's from a totally different game than Cloud and not an echo. This adds up to 5 more stages, enough to fill in the stage select screen.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Also, I wouldn't count Tingle out yet.

If Alfonzo can replace Toon Link in Spirit Train, then obviously David Jr. will step in for Tingle at some point :V

Once again slave labor saves the day.
(Tingle is a monster.)

 

[Pyra]

Also, I wouldn't count Tingle out yet.

If Alfonzo can replace Toon Link in Spirit Train, then obviously David Jr. will step in for Tingle at some point :V

That's why I kept him on the list and put that parenthetical there.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I talked about this on Discord a lot already, but alright, let's talk about the Gardevoir leak! (that's what we're calling it)

Well we have four leaks that survived the direct blowout and we're trying to figure out who's right and who got lucky.

Here's the original sorce for the Gardevoir/Gothitelle one, in case any one was curious https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422689663/

Thanks to Amazing Ampharos we can decipher that Mario2 is... probably not a new Mario and just a test situation.

So, that leaves two characters that are basically one in the same. Gothitelle and Gardevoir. It contradicts the Neogaf leak (one of the few credible ones, but as discussed before, could easily be in the land of lucky guess), but it doesn't contradict anyone else so far.

So it's this weird situation where, unless a leak that says "this is the final roster" gets proven, it's either real and Gardevoir (and echo) are in the game, or it's false and we don't need to worry about it. Chances are, it's not real, but if we see Gardevoir, it'll prove nothing else asides from "I guess they're right"

Case closed; book em.

 

[Will]

Once again slave labor saves the day.
(Tingle is a monster.)

Man, you'd think Hyrule would establish labor laws by this point

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I talked about this on Discord a lot already, but alright, let's talk about the Gardevoir leak! (that's what we're calling it)


Thanks to Amazing Ampharos we can decipher that Mario2 is... probably not a new Mario and just a test situation.

So, that leaves two characters that are basically one in the same. Gothitelle and Gardevoir. It contradicts the Neogaf leak (one of the few credible ones, but as discussed before, could easily be in the land of lucky guess), but it doesn't contradict anyone else so far.

So it's this weird situation where, unless a leak that says "this is the final roster" gets proven, it's either real and Gardevoir (and echo) are in the game, or it's false and we don't need to worry about it. Chances are, it's not real, but if we see Gardevoir, it'll prove nothing else asides from "I guess they're right"

Case closed; book em.

Which is what makes it all so painful.

Stupid hope.

 

[Starbound]

I just can't fathom the idea of this being an Echo. I'm all for more Path and Dawn representation, but I find it nonsensical to choose Soren over Celica as a Robin Echo. Like, why?

I agree that Celica makes so much more sense, especially since she already uses Swords. Soren is, honestly, a literal "who" in the FE series.

My hope is that they started with the idea of Soren and then were like "Oh, SoV is coming out. Let's have Celica instead of Soren."

 

[P.Kat]

Gardevoir and Gothitelle would finally give Smash 3rd and 5th gen Pokemon reps but I don't know if Sakurai actually cares about this sort of thing. Gardevoir is really popular but Gothitelle isn't even on the radar. If they both got in, I feel like it would be more of a way to shoehorn in more girl reps even though there's still a good number of plausible ones left like Isabelle, Dixie, and Pyra and arguably Impa, Medusa, and maybe even Tetra and Shantae. Speaking of Tetra, kind of had a weird epiphany today that she could probably pass as a Toon Link Echo with a few adjustments, especially since they have the same dimensions. Now I can't decide if I would prefer her or Impa as possible Zelda Echo additions...

Tetra can be an echo, I'd love for her to enter the game just change her neutral B to a flintlock pistol that works like Toon Link's arrows but fires water bullets instead, and can shoot further than Links arrows, and more rapidly.

I've got an even better idea as to how we can represent Gen 3 and Gen 5.

We make Gardevoir a unique character, skip Gothitelle entirely, and add Zoroark as a unique character instead because he's totally worth it.

I actually like Zoroark, one of my favorite dark types in the game, so I agree with that idea, and I would welcome it as a newcomer asap... if it wasn't a Pokéball Pokémon, thanks for reminding me *sobs*

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Let me check. I'll be back with a full list.

If I’m correct if all assist trophies from the past are added it comes up to 59 assist trophies, take out Isabelle, Shadow, and Skull Kid based on speculation and you have 56. Take out the Brawl trophies that didn’t appear in 4 and you have around 49-51 I think. (Hopefully Issac doesn’t come as an assist lol fans would be crushed).

 

[Pyra]

Looking back at the AT list, Skull Kid was a pretty lame assist trophy lol. Don't get me wrong, I love the character, but I'm kinda hoping he got at least upgraded to story mode boss or something.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

A monster hunter character would be boring imo. It would just be a generic person with armor. No personality kind of like in Marvel Infinite.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Which is what makes it all so painful.

Stupid hope.

I don't see how it's painful; it makes it easier since we're not having to play "cross reference it with other credible leaks and see if there's a contradiction"

Unless... wait you really want gardevoir in don't you. Yeah, I can see how that's exhausting D:

 

[Fatmanonice]

Speaking of datamining, I sort of just remembered the characters that were datamined from Brawl that we used to call the Forbidden 7: Doc, Roy, Mewtwo, Dixie, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik (possibly Tetra), and "Pra Mar" (some people think it might have been Plusle and Minun). Kind of surprised nobody brings this up when it comes to the possibility of Dixie getting added this time around, especially since the original plan was supposedly to have Diddy and Dixie as a sort of tagteam.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Man, you'd think Hyrule would establish labor laws by this point

To be fair, it was on the Great Sea, long after Hyrule.

On Tingle island there is only one god and he wears his underpants on the outside.

 

[Pyra]

So it's this weird situation where, unless a leak that says "this is the final roster" gets proven, it's either real and Gardevoir (and echo) are in the game, or it's false and we don't need to worry about it. Chances are, it's not real, but if we see Gardevoir, it'll prove nothing else asides from "I guess they're right"

Case closed; book em.

Why, yes. It's either real or fake.
Such is the nature of leak claims.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Looking back at the AT list, Skull Kid was a pretty lame assist trophy lol. Don't get me wrong, I love the character, but I'm kinda hoping he got at least upgraded to story mode boss or something.

Yeah I was watching his assist trophy gameplay and I couldn't help but scratch my head. More reason as why Sakurai wouldn't want him to return in that state.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

A monster hunter character would be boring imo. It would just be a generic person with armor. No personality kind of like in Marvel Infinite.

Except the Hunter had a bit of personality in Infinite.

 

[Pakky]

A monster hunter character would be boring imo. It would just be a generic person with armor. No personality kind of like in Marvel Infinite.

This is Smash though.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Except the Hunter had a bit of personality in Infinite.

Rathalos is a more perfect representation than any playable hunter would be. Generally speaking people care about the monsters more than the humans.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

If somehow Soren, the EIGHTH Fire Emblem character in the game, gets in, that would absolutely be scraping the bottom of the barrel. Now, granted, I'd get over it pretty quick since I have K Rool now, but there's really no denying that Soren would, bar none, be the most unnecessary and pointless character in the history of Smash.

 

[SirCamp]

So this is just an idle thought, but I remember forever ago pre-E3 Direct, Emily Rogers saying something about the roster being divisive or something (I don't recall her exact words). Now I'm not sure that she even has actual information, but if we give her the benefit of the doubt just for the sake of some lighthearted speculation, I was thinking about why she might have said that. Mostly because so far the roster is turning out to be very fan favorite based and thus not very controversial, barring a few popular choices being made assist trophies. And to be honest I doubt she would have considered Ashley or Waluigi big enough omissions to actually comment on.

Which leads me to think about echo fighters. Do you think she was referring to the number of clone/echo fighters in the roster as being something that would divide the playerbase? I mean it would have been a good assumption given the way the community has reacted to clone characters in the past. It seems like they are serving to really fill in some gaps in the roster, but people also could have taken them the wrong way despite that. Or perhaps she was just making **** up and being vague enough to sound like she might actually have some info. Thought it was interesting to think about though.

 

[Starbound]

Maybe they went dagger!Soren because they finally listened to our NO MORE FE SWORDS requests.

If it actually happens, I expect a new alt in Heroes based off of it.

 

[Will]

If somehow Soren, the EIGHTH Fire Emblem character in the game, gets in, that would absolutely be scraping the bottom of the barrel. Now, granted, I'd get over it pretty quick since I have K Rool now, but there's really no denying that Soren would, bar none, be the most unnecessary and pointless character in the history of Smash.

"sorry i couldnt help but overhear someone called my name"

Maybe they went dagger!Soren because they finally listened to our NO MORE FE SWORDS requests.

a dagger is a sword, just a very tiny one

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Rathalos is a more perfect representation than any playable hunter would be. Generally speaking people care about the monsters more than the humans.

That is something I can't deny.

Getting Rathalos in the first place is already mind-blowing.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

If you look back at E3 you'll notice Sakurai had a barrel and a wooden ladder behind him which obviously represents DK

 

[Starbound]

a dagger is a sword, just a very tiny one

Daggers, in FE, are a separate type of weapon from swords. In Soren's game, it's more of a knife.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

That is something I can't deny.

Getting Rathalos in the first place is already mind-blowing.

As someone who enjoyed Monster Hunter World those are my honest feelings