Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

Zeraora's debut is about as late as Greninja's was. I mean, conception wise, because he was discovered in fully finished form via datamine in 2017. So his concept art definitely existed way before that, which is what Sakurai chose Greninja based off of.

Zeraora just seems like perfect timing to me. A brand new movie, just weeks before Super Smash Bros Ultimate is released.

Um... Zeraora was in Ultra Sun/Moon only, which was way after Ultimate started production.

I sincerely doubt Sakurai would have held off Pokémon designs for Zeraora (the unfinished Zeraora) when he could have gone for Decidueye, Incineroar or an Ultra Beast.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm crossing my fingers even harder for Ninten if just so Samus is not the only member of the original 12 with an echo fighter.

 

[Next Door Dog]

It's not really looking into it too deeply though. It's based on the purpose of the mode, and how the mode theoretically works.

As in, if it's a certain amount of characters and there are 4 players playing...and there's only 2 characters left...the mode would be broken and wouldn't work properly. Theoretically, it would have to leave us with a total number of characters that fits any scenario of 2, 3, and 4 players.

I think the total is more debatable. But the math behind it is all there. For the mode to function properly, the math has to work.

I feel it's worth noting that even if the math works in the base game, it's bound to have issues once the inevitable DLC fighters get added (unless they decide to release characters in packs, and even then not everyone will buy every character). I think your theory gives us a good ballpark for what to expect, thanks for doing the math! I had been thinking of the roster count by what would make an balanced CSS (including the random slot), but I didn't even think of this mode being an indicator for the roster count.

 

[Blue7113]

Literally the only hope of Earthbound and F-Zero getting any more reps at this point. Heck, Black Shadow as a clone has been a thing even back in the Brawl days, I believe. But now, I think the Rivalry theme we saw could potentially boost his odds even more. And if not? At least give us a costume.

As for Porky? Gosh, I can see him being a boss again, and while I would like another playable Mother character, it's completely niche, albeit it DOES hold a legacy and is considered a classic and favorite game to many. Undertale, a popular series, was even popularly known to have some influences from the game, with Game Theory being the victim of a new meme due to his "Sans is Ness" theory. So while I won't consider it impossible, I won't consider it too likely either. Again, I'd settle for. Ninten echo or costume too.

It just feels like they deserve more, being such iconic pieces of Nintendo’s history . To me it feels weird that they would be left out.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

If we're talking "rivals" and not "villains" then I can legitimately see Boshi being included alongside a Geno reveal or something, even if he and Yoshi would be categorized in different series.

That said that's a pretty big "if".

 

[marcuzoo]

So by that you mean "everyone except Pikachu"? Don't argue about Mewtwo either, you saw the K. Rool trailer. If we didnt see a Pika Pika, there's no riva-l riva-l or whatever Nintendo likes to use in place of the world villain/antagonist.

MEOWTH thats right

 

[Will]

I'm crossing my fingers even harder for Ninten if just so Samus is not the only member of the original 12 with an echo fighter.

What's wrong with Samus being the only one?
Ninten also looks a little bit too same-y. At least Dark Pit is black all over so you can tell the difference; and Dr. Mario is in an actual doctors' outfit. Ninten is just a swapped hat and Pac-Man eyes. I feel like that's one of the biggest problems about him.

 

[Blue7113]

Since the Kirby vs. Meta Knight pairing proves that it doesn't have to be the absolute bad guy of the respective franchise, Kamek does work. However, since Mushroom Kingdom U is confirmed that may have inadvertently disconfirmed him even though we haven't seen him yet.

That's why MY most wanted, Boshi, might actually be plausible if Geno gets in

Tbh I don’t understand the whole want for Boshi, considering (at first glance anyways) how similar he is to Yoshi, but if it makes the fans happy than I’d be happy.

 

[KMDP]

I'm crossing my fingers even harder for Ninten if just so Samus is not the only member of the original 12 with an echo fighter.

I'm tellin' you guys.

Jumpman!

Mario Echo that plays like Mario would have if he never got FLUDD in Brawl.

 

[link2702]

So I’m sure others have already seen it but...

Apparently the last scene in the k.rool trailer seems to be directly referencing a certain anime that many people want to have a playable rep from...

I truly hope that was just sakurai trolling them and he doesn’t have any intention of adding that anime character.... sure sakurai has broken his own rules for smash characters in the past, but I really hope he truly sticks to one; the character had to originate as a video game character to be eligible. Adding an anime character is opening pandoras box...

 

[Zinith]

Tbh I don’t understand the whole want for Boshi, considering (at first glance anyways) how similar he is to Yoshi, but if it makes the fans happy than I’d be happy.

I'll describe Boshi in a single sentence:

"He's the Wario equivalent to Yoshi."

 

[alguidrag]

My Smash Ultimate Mains(for now)

Mains
Corrin, Robin, Ike, Richter, Young Link, Isaac
Secondary
Chrom, Roy, Kirby, Link, Rob, pokemon trainer, Shulk, Pichu, Felix, Edgy Pit
if something bad happens
Villager, Cloud, Pit
Nope
Mario, doc, Mario, Wolf, Rosalina

 

[KMDP]

I'll describe Boshi in a single sentence:

"He's the Wario equivalent to Yoshi."

"His name in Japanese is literally 'Washi'."

 

[Deleted member]

I'm tellin' you guys.

Jumpman!

Mario Echo that plays like Mario would have if he never got FLUDD in Brawl.

Would his Final Smash involve putting his opponent in a cage and whipping them?

 

[Will]

Tbh I don’t understand the whole want for Boshi, considering (at first glance anyways) how similar he is to Yoshi, but if it makes the fans happy than I’d be happy.

I think Zinith's the only person who actually wants Boshi. If I had to choose, I'd just make him an alt. similar to how Mario has his wedding and builder outfit.

 

[Shroob]

Legit could see Black Shadow as a Falcon Echo.

With Ganondorf getting his A-moves revamped, there's not a character that plays like Brawl/Sm4sh Ganondorf anymore.

If Sakurai wanted to preserve that playstyle, Black Shadow could work.

 

[KMDP]

Would his Final Smash involve putting his opponent in a cage and whipping them?

I mean... probably. XD

Legit could see Black Shadow as a Falcon Echo.

With Ganondorf getting his A-moves revamped, there's not a character that plays like Brawl/Sm4sh Ganondorf anymore.

If Sakurai wanted to preserve that playstyle, Black Shadow could work.

You mean "Ganondorf Echo", if he was a Falcon Echo he'd have to be the same weight and speed and all that jazz.

 

[Blue7113]

I'll describe Boshi in a single sentence:

"He's the Wario equivalent to Yoshi."

That sounds cute as long as he never grows a mustache.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'm tellin' you guys.

Jumpman!

Mario Echo that plays like Mario would have if he never got FLUDD in Brawl.

Blood Falcon and Mr.L

 

[Dragoncharystary]

It's not really looking into it too deeply though. It's based on the purpose of the mode, and how the mode theoretically works.

As in, if it's a certain amount of characters and there are 4 players playing...and there's only 2 characters left...the mode would be broken and wouldn't work properly. Theoretically, it would have to leave us with a total number of characters that fits any scenario of 2, 3, and 4 players.

I think the total is more debatable. But the math behind it is all there. For the mode to function properly, the math has to work.

My theory on how it will work is when it gets down to less than four characters, players will be forced to pick the same ones.

I think part of the fun of it is when four people are playing and they get down to the final match with one character, everyone is suddenly forced to play as Pichu to fight for the trophy.

 

[lordvaati]

Yeah IIRC Kamek was the general of the magikoopas, much like how the Koopalings are the Officers of the other enemy factions.or at least he was Bowser's caretaker when he was a kid.

Kamek has a fair chance if it's just a generic Magikoopa on the MKU stage.
but beyond him you can literally count all the other Yoshi series reps left on one hand(Baby Mario, Baby Bowser, Poochy....um, a Shy Guy?)

 

[Zinith]

I think Zinith's the only person who actually wants Boshi. If I had to choose, I'd just make him an alt. similar to how Mario has his wedding and builder outfit.

You know, a few weeks ago I would've agreed that I was the only one who wants him, but the support thread is now up to 7 supporters

 

[TriMaxTime]

Okay, here’s my go.

I am convinced (95%) that Geno & Shadow are playable. The only reason I could see Shadow as not playable is if he is a boss in an adventure mode. But here’s my predictions. (Numbers might be arbitrary)

68. Karate Joe (or Chorus Kids)
69. Geno
70. Decidueye
71. Elma
72. Isaac
73. Heihachi
74. Bandana Waddle Dee
75. Mike Jones

10e. Ninten
36e. Dixie Kong
38e. Shadow
43e. Isabelle

Potential DLC characters:
76. Spring Man
76e. Ribbon Girl
77. Rex & Pyra
78. Slime
79. Crash Bandicoot
80. New Smash Ballot choice (Waluigi?)

Besides these characters, I’d also like Professor Layton, Phoenix Wright, Paper Mario, Banjo-Kazooie, or Quote.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Even with all that said I don't expect us seeing a Yoshi newcomer, as much as I would like one.

Klaptrap and others appearing as ATs do show that Ultimate is going to represent more on that front so maybe Yoshi can get some "actual" representation that isn't a stage this time around.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

So I’m sure others have already seen it but...

Apparently the last scene in the k.rool trailer seems to be directly referencing a certain anime that many people want to have a playable rep from...

I truly hope that was just sakurai trolling them and he doesn’t have any intention of adding that anime character.... sure sakurai has broken his own rules for smash characters in the past, but I really hope he truly sticks to one; the character had to originate as a video game character to be eligible. Adding an anime character is opening pandoras box...

This is probably the last Smash game and if not; a complete reboot. Sakurai is probably not topping this and already said he probably opened pandora box anyway which is perfect for he who shall not be named (Kakarot).... You don't want DDD trolling you again do you??

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

If you could add any combination (3 echos, 1 unique or 2 unique, 2 echos, etc) of 4 character, who would you add?

Newcomers:

1. Viridi
2. Fulgore

Echoes:

1. Black Shadow
2. Black Knight

 

[Mutsukki]

Even with all that said I don't expect us seeing a Yoshi newcomer, as much as I would like one.

Klaptrap and others appearing as ATs do show that Ultimate is going to represent more on that front so maybe Yoshi can get some "actual" representation that isn't a stage this time around.

I can easily see Poochy being an AT. But aside from that? Yeah, I don't see much. I always felt like Yoshi was always kind of a very special case, as he could be easily be Mario series too

 

[Zinith]

Even with all that said I don't expect us seeing a Yoshi newcomer, as much as I would like one.

Klaptrap and others appearing as ATs do show that Ultimate is going to represent more on that front so maybe Yoshi can get some "actual" representation that isn't a stage this time around.

That's why the Direct disappointed me. I wasn't expecting a Yoshi newcomer or even a stage, but NOTHING?!! No AT, no item, no new music?

 

[Will]

The only reason I could see Shadow as not playable is if he is a boss in an adventure mode.

Good God, that's something I haven't even thought about. Someone's gonna end up being bossified, aren't they?

That's why the Direct disappointed me. I wasn't expecting a Yoshi newcomer or even a stage, but NOTHING?!! No AT, no item, no new music?

Why would they show new music for anything that isn't Castlevania? I know they demonstrated with Luigi's Mansion to show the MP3 mode but cmon.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I got K. Rool and a boatload of gameplay customizations that I have wanted to see in an official Smash game for a very long time. I was good with just Ridley and stuff initially, but now? Above and beyond that. Over the goddamn moon. It's more than a cherry on top or a big pile of gravy; any other additions to the game at this point would be building on perfection.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Shroob]

Good God, that's something I haven't even thought about. Someone's gonna end up being bossified, aren't they?

Well they could probably re-use Porky and Petey from Brawl is they really wanted to.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Unique Fighter Newcomer and/Or Echo Fighter Newcomer
1.Viridi

All Hail The Goddess of Nature

Good God, that's something I haven't even thought about. Someone's gonna end up being bossified, aren't they?

There’s still Eggman, Metal Sonic, Infinite, Chaos, etc...and that’s all if we were to get a boss fight from Sanic

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

What's wrong with Samus being the only one?
Ninten also looks a little bit too same-y. At least Dark Pit is black all over so you can tell the difference; and Dr. Mario is in an actual doctors' outfit. Ninten is just a swapped hat and Pac-Man eyes. I feel like that's one of the biggest problems about him.

Um, actually, a real fan notices that Ninten's yellow stripes are thinner, his hat is facing to his left as opposed to Ness' right" and his shoes are blue.

Come on, step it up!

 

[Will]

Well they could probably re-use Porky and Petey from Brawl is they really wanted to.

Why would they re-use Petey if there's nobody to put in a cage?

 

[Zinith]

I can easily see Poochy being an AT. But aside from that? Yeah, I don't see much. I always felt like Yoshi was always kind of a very special case, as he could be easily be Mario series too

I can literally think of 5 Assist trophy ideas for Yoshi that are exclusive to his series and have no relation to the main Mario series. Grinders, Pak E. Derm (even if he's also in the background of Yoshi's Story), Eggo-dil, Prince Froggy, Fuzzy

 

[Iridium]

https://m.imgur.com/Xeez9A9

In this GIF, it seems that Luma panics when Rosalina gets hit, kind of like Nana. It's details like this that make me admire Sakurai. So, that might mean you don't get punished for free by Luma if you knock Rosalina away, just like Nana now.

 

[SvartWolf]

The problem whith the Boshi argument is that is considered because Yoshi Franchise as part of the 8 OG franchises needs a rival, but honestly Boshi doesn't represent the Yoshi franchise, at all.

on the other hand, Kamek doesn't have the popularity to use resources on making him a original character, and unlike Boshi, he couldn't be a Echo of anyone. (maybe is Ashñey was in... )

and at the end of the day, at least on the games i've played Bowser is teh main antagonist of the Yoshi games. (Yoshi expert that starts withZ, correct me if im wrong)

Not saying that Boshi is completely imposible... but if he is getting in, is because he got enough support on the ballot to gurantee it, not because he is being the Yoshi series rival... which I don't think is the case.

Now.. if we have one alt costume per character, and Geno is in... it maaay be an alternate costume for yoshi, since well.. a costume can be a nod, doesn't need tobe super popular (Blood Falcon).. and is not like Yoshi have Plenty of other options (Unless he is Yarn).

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Good God, that's something I haven't even thought about. Someone's gonna end up being bossified, aren't they?



Why would they show new music for anything that isn't Castlevania? I know they demonstrated with Luigi's Mansion to show the MP3 mode but cmon.

Unfortunately, Eggman, who I know you've expressed desire for is likely to end up with this fate.

 

[Shroob]

Why would they re-use Petey if there's nobody to put in a cage?

Shhhh, that's how you'll unlock the characters.

 

[Will]

https://m.imgur.com/Xeez9A9

In this GIF, it seems Luma panics when Rosalina gets hit, kind of like Nana. It's details like this that make me admire Sakurai.

Actually I'm pretty sure that's a big nerf if Luma can't do anything while Rosa is hit or grabbed.

Unfortunately, Eggman, who I know you've expressed desire for is likely to end up with this fate.

It's not gonna break my heart, at least they acknowledged his existence like Shovel Knight.