Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DaybreakHorizon]

Watch Spirits be an original Adventure/Story Mode, but at the end Tabuu shows up and absolutely wrecks everything.

Or even better, Master Core shows up only to be immediately destroyed by Tabuu.

Tabuu >>>>>>>>> Master Core/Fortress

 

[Shroob]

Watch Spirits be an original Adventure/Story Mode, but at the end Tabuu shows up and absolutely wrecks everything.

Tabuu >>>>>>>>> Master Core/Fortress

Legit kinda invested in the Smash 'lore'.

 

[Blargg888]

Wow, I can't believe I didn't catch that earlier. ESAM pointed out in one of his videos that Dark Samus has a standard roll instead of Samus' Morph Ball roll.

I guess that's one major difference between the two.

 

[Starbound]

I've been thinking about the 'Spirits' mode and think it might be the new mode Loz18 leaked way back then. He didn't give it a name, but the focus on villains and boss characters (Rathafos and Dracula were both fought on flat, featureless stages like an SSE boss. We've also got Metal Face back, as well as Yellow Devil, plus the rumored Pyrosphere for Ridley [maybe it has an alt version where Ridley shows up that's only used in Spirits?]).

He describes the mode as basically the Great Maze, which would be sick. The bosses would fit in here like a glove, and it would be a thematic mode for unlocking characters by collecting them.

 

[KMDP]

Blood Falcon and Mr.L

Blood Falcon is already Falcon's Costume.

You say "Mr. L", I say "Dr. Luigi".

 

[Will]

Watch Spirits be an original Adventure/Story Mode, but at the end Tabuu shows up and absolutely wrecks everything.

Tabuu >>>>>>>>> Master Core/Fortress

I'm pretty sure there's gonna be a new Master Hand gimmick this time around.
polygon man rises from the ashes of playstation battle royale

 

[Demonfunds]

I've been thinking about the 'Spirits' mode and think it might be the new mode Loz18 leaked way back then. He didn't give it a name, but the focus on villains and boss characters (Rathafos and Dracula were both fought on flat, featureless stages like an SSE boss. We've also got Metal Face back, as well as Yellow Devil, plus the rumored Pyrosphere for Ridley [maybe it has an alt version where Ridley shows up that's only used in Spirits?]).

He describes the mode as basically the Great Maze, which would be sick. The bosses would fit in here like a glove, and it would be a thematic mode for unlocking characters by collecting them.

Jesus your signature is gonna give me a seizure.

 

[WaxPython]

Pretty much. And given that Chrom got in because of fan demand, I don't really care about another sword-user. If anything, this shows shows how poorly the weapon balance always has been in the FE franchise if almost all the main characters are sword-users. Blame Intelligent System, not Smash.

Not really you can choose what class to make the main character in each game.

 

[Mutsukki]

Why would they show new music for anything that isn't Castlevania? I know they demonstrated with Luigi's Mansion to show the MP3 mode but cmon.

Actually that was a remix from Smash 4. We did have a bit of new music for other series, but it wasn't very significant

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Blood Falcon is already Falcon's Costume.

You say "Mr. L", I say "Dr. Luigi".

Why not both?

 

[Zinith]

The problem whith the Boshi argument is that is considered because Yoshi Franchise as part of the 8 OG franchises needs a rival, but honestly Boshi doesn't represent the Yoshi franchise, at all.

on the other hand, Kamek doesn't have the popularity to use resources on making him a original character, and unlike Boshi, he couldn't be a Echo of anyone. (maybe is Ashñey was in... )

and at the end of the day, at least on the games i've played Bowser is teh main antagonist of the Yoshi games. (Yoshi expert that starts withZ, correct me if im wrong)

Not saying that Boshi is completely imposible... but if he is getting in, is because he got enough support on the ballot to gurantee it, not because he is being the Yoshi series rival... which I don't think is the case.

Now.. if we have one alt costume per character, and Geno is in... it maaay be an alternate costume for yoshi, since well.. a costume can be a nod, doesn't need tobe super popular (Blood Falcon).. and is not like Yoshi have Plenty of other options (Unless he is Yarn).

I understand ALL of that.

However, as the "rival" theme has proven, the villain in question doesn't have to be the main antagonist to the respective franchises. Kamek and Boshi both work but for different reasons. Kamek because of the impact he makes in Yoshi's games and Boshi for being Yoshi's mirror. Not entirely convincing arguments I admit but considering the circumstances it's the best the Yoshi series has

 

[John Dylan Smith]

Calling it now (Verbagen has now become a tad bit credit now that Simon Belmont has been confirmed)!

The next characters that will be revealed in the next Smash Bros Presentations!

Will be Skull Kid (The recent Loz18 leak says he's possibly in and he wasn't presented in either Direct as an Assist Trophy)!

Isabella (Same Deal with Skull Kid and the fact that she was one of people leaked by Verbagen)

And two echoes for Sonic and Ryu (Now that Third party characters can have echoes)!

Although I could be wrong about all of this and Sakurai might throw in a few cruveballs next time!

 

[Will]

Actually that was a remix from Smash 4. We did have a bit of new music for other series, but it wasn't very significant

I'm aware it's not new, I just meant any music showcased in general.

I understand ALL of that.

However, as the "rival" theme has proven, the villain in question doesn't have to be the main antagonist to the respective franchises. Kamek and Boshi both work but for different reasons. Kamek because of the impact he makes in Yoshi's games and Boshi for being Yoshi's mirror. Not entirely convincing arguments I admit but considering the circumstances it's the best the Yoshi series has

Looks like I gotta keep saying it until I drill it in.

Rivals doesn't mean antagonist or villain and you shouldn't put them in the same group ever, because you can be both a villain/antagonist and a rival simultaneously, but you can also just be a rival. You know how Pokemon has that "friendly rival" gimmick? Yeah, that can happen.

VILLAIN/ANTAG + RIVAL: (K. Rool)

RIVAL ONLY:

 

[KMDP]

Why not both?

Blood Falcon? Or Mr. L/Dr. Loogie?

Or... oh... XD

We don't know if there can be more than one Echo Fighter (I doubt it). But...

Jody Summers for Falcon Echo.
Dr. Luigi for Luigi Echo.

Mr. L is a two dimensional character.

 

[Shroob]

I think my question is, if Verg and Loz are legit, then it seems like they have 0 idea on echo fighters since, well yesterday happened, and I don't think either leaked Daisy.

Would that mean Isabelle wouldn't be an Echo of Villager?.... Honestly having a hard time imagining what she'd do when Villager's moveset fits her soo well already.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Um... Zeraora was in Ultra Sun/Moon only, which was way after Ultimate started production.

Way after? It was a year after Sun & Moon. Which means it was in development by the time content for Sun & Moon was being added in Super Smash Bros as it currently is.

When did development start? 2015? And yet we have plenty of content and characters that reference 2017 releases. Plus, we don't even know if newcomers were chosen by 2015. It's possible that 2015 was focused on bringing back all of the veterans (their #1 priority) and newcomer selection was delayed to 2016, to ensure more possibilities. We don't really know, because that being the case, then things might have worked very differently this time.

I sincerely doubt Sakurai would have held off Pokémon designs for Zeraora when he could have gone for Decidueye, Incineroar or an Ultra Beast.

Why is that? Sakurai held off choosing characters for Fire Emblem and Pokemon in the past, simply listing them on the newcomer list as "Emblem" or "Gen 6 Pokemon".

Greninja had concept art available by 2012, which was a year before he debuted. Zeraora unofficially debuted in November 2017 via datamine, so he definitely had concept art way before that.

I don't think he's going to choose a starter Pokemon or an Ultra Beast. I think he and the Pokemon Company are more clever than that and most likely chose Zeraora, a mythical Pokemon, the final Pokemon of the Alolan Pokedex, and a major character in their new movie. At the very least, I sincerely doubt The Pokemon Company was unprepared for this by the time Sakurai was choosing newcomers. It's very likely they may have told him to wait a little while because they have something special for him, which he's done before.

I think the process by making a decision like this is more complicated and strategic than you give it credit for. I think you're characterizing it as eager and incidental. That's just my take on it.

 

[TriMaxTime]

Newcomers:

1. Viridi
2. Fulgore

Echoes:

1. Black Shadow
2. Black Knight

Man, as much as I would love Viridi, alas, she could technically be considered a stage hazard for Reset Bomb Forest (she IS the one who sends down the Reset Bomb, after all).

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I said this once before in late 2013, but I'll say it again: Poochy would make for a great Assist Trophy.

He'll playfully knock around items on the ground and run aimlessly, ruinning into people, but can be controlled when a fighter stands on his head. He'll auto-jump when touching a ledge.

---

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Um... Zeraora was in Ultra Sun/Moon only, which was way after Ultimate started production.

I sincerely doubt Sakurai would have held off Pokémon designs for Zeraora (the unfinished Zeraora) when he could have gone for Decidueye, Incineroar or an Ultra Beast.

Also, there's always the possibility that Zeraora will meet the same fate as Zoroark and Marshadow.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

View attachment 156708All Hail The Goddess of Nature

And all hail the killing machine!

Come to think of it, we have Pit & Palutena, and only have Dark Pit, could she fit the bill now? We could have an Angel & God vs. Angel & God match if it were the case; since Chrom is at the battlefield after all the harassment he's gotten over the years, I believe the Goddess of Nature might have a chance to show her true worthy.

 

[Demonfunds]

I think my question is, if Verg and Loz are legit, then it seems like they have 0 idea on echo fighters since, well yesterday happened, and I don't think either leaked Daisy.

Would that mean Isabelle wouldn't be an Echo of Villager?.... Honestly having a hard time imagining what she'd do when Villager's moveset fits her soo well already.

She could possibly be a semi clone, not too similar to be considered a echo, but not unique enough to start from scratch, a Luigi situation.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Also, there's always the possibility that Zeraora will meet the same fate as Zoroark and Marshadow.

Um...you realize Zoroark was Generation Five and not Generation Six. Right? Of course he wasn't going to be playable in Super Smash Bros 4.

 

[alguidrag]

any of them speaks about Isaac? If not I will not believe them XD

 

[Will]

Jody Summers for Falcon Echo.

Um...you realize Zoroark was Generation Five and not Generation Six. Right? Of course he wasn't going to be playable in Super Smash Bros 4.

Rip Gen 3 and Gen 5 lads, never ever.

any of them speaks about Isaac? If not I will not believe them XD

One leak in particular had Simon, K. Rool as newcomers and Chrom, and Dark Samus as Echoes among a list that includes Isaac as a newcomer and Isabelle as an Echo. However, Richter is nowhere to be seen so it's probably fake and very safe.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I said this once before in late 2013, but I'll say it again: Poochy would make for a great Assist Trophy.

He'll playfully knock around items on the ground and run aimlessly, ruinning into people, but can be controlled when a fighter stands on his head. He'll auto-jump when touching a ledge.

---

He'll probably replace Gogoat.

 

[Iridium]

Spoiler: Bleeding ears warning.

This must have been how SmashBoards was like when it blew up (and became CrashBoards ).

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

Man, as much as I would love Viridi, alas, she could technically be considered a stage hazard for Reset Bomb Forest (she IS the one who sends down the Reset Bomb, after all).

I noticed. But that doesn't stop her chance at being a potential fighter, even if she's very unlikely. And since relevancy has been completely thrown out the window with K. Rool, we might see a little bit of Sakurai bias with either Viridi or Medusa as an echo. I'm just thirst for "NEW" KI content even though Smash 4's representation was HUGE!

 

[UltimateWario]

Wow, I can't believe I didn't catch that earlier. ESAM pointed out in one of his videos that Dark Samus has a standard roll instead of Samus' Morph Ball roll.

I guess that's one major difference between the two.

That's really amazing. Samus's roll is by and large one of the worst faults in her design. If they would just reskin her morph ball bomb as a Phazon lump instead of a bomb (clashes with the organic missile, eugh) I'd be surprisingly pleased with her.

EDIT: Oh and give her a better stage entrance, the portal makes no sense. She's an alien not a wizard.

 

[RandomAce]

I've been watching a lot of Direct Reactions today (well: Alpharad, Rogersbase, RelaxAlax, Maximilian Dood, SomeCallMeJohnny, Arlo, Nairo and Tom Fawkes)

I'm actually kind of surprised how many people just completely ignored the "In Classic Mode, each fighter faces a specific set of opponents" thing.

I mean, that's pretty clear and it's not like that's hard to understand.

Like it says that on the screen and some of them turn around and say "It's random". Like... what?

Also, I found it incredibly funny (also frustrating) how so incredibly sure RelaxAlax was that Chrom had to be an Ike clone that he thought Chrom being next to Roy on the Smashdown screen was a mistake.

This is the first time I hear that every person has a set of opponents.

 

[Starbound]

I think my question is, if Verg and Loz are legit, then it seems like they have 0 idea on echo fighters since, well yesterday happened, and I don't think either leaked Daisy.

Would that mean Isabelle wouldn't be an Echo of Villager?.... Honestly having a hard time imagining what she'd do when Villager's moveset fits her soo well already.

Isabelle is a weird pick with both leakers. Verge has info on her, whereas Loz doesn't.

Loz doesn't seem to have much on characters though, as I don't think he has had any info on characters excluding Skull Kid. However, Loz also doesn't think we're getting a Gen 7 Pokemon, while Verge does.

I'm trying to figure out a situation where both are right (as both have been mostly correct thus far, especially Loz). But I'm struggling to figure out what that situation looks like.

 

[ned_ballad]

Taking a casual glance at 4chan, it seems like 90% of fake leaks now include Skull Kid lol

Were there any 4chan posts before Loz18's post that mentioned Skull Kid?

 

[Yonder]

From highest to lowest:

1. King K. Rool
2. Simon
3. Inkling
4. Ridley
5. Daisy
6. Dark Samus
7. Chrom
8. Richter

The addition of Chrom and Richter upsets me. I'm not upset about Daisy and DS being added, but I am disappointed with the idea of Echoes in general, and with how many of them are being thrown on the roster.

I'll play:

1. Inkling
2. Ridley
3. K Rool
4. Simon
5. Chrom
6.. Dark Samus
7. Richter
8. Daisy


Only Daisy upset me because it wasn't Waluigi and her fanbase is really, really obnoxious.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

That's really amazing. Samus's roll is by and large one of the worst faults in her design. If they would just reskin her morph ball bomb as a Phazon lump instead of a bomb (clashes with the organic missile, eugh) I'd be surprisingly pleased with her.

EDIT: Oh and give her a better stage entrance, the portal makes no sense. She's an alien not a wizard.

Given the Chozo blood and her crazy abilities she gets from the many suits, I honestly don't consider portal creation/warping an illogical part of her repertoire.

 

[KMDP]

Never.

Way after? It was a year after Sun & Moon. Which means it was in development by the time content for Sun & Moon was being added in Super Smash Bros as it currently is.

When did development start? 2015? And yet we have plenty of content and characters that reference 2017 releases. Plus, we don't even know if newcomers were chosen by 2015. It's possible that 2015 was focused on bringing back all of the veterans (their #1 priority) and newcomer selection was delayed to 2016, to ensure more possibilities. We don't really know, because that being the case, then things might have worked very differently this time.


Why is that? Sakurai held off choosing characters for Fire Emblem and Pokemon in the past, simply listing them on the newcomer list as "Emblem" or "Gen 6 Pokemon".

Greninja had concept art available by 2012, which was a year before he debuted. Zeraora unofficially debuted in November 2017 via datamine, so he definitely had concept art way before that.

I don't think he's going to choose a starter Pokemon or an Ultra Beast. I think he and the Pokemon Company are more clever than that and most likely chose Zeraora, a mythical Pokemon, the final Pokemon of the Alolan Pokedex, and a major character in their new movie. At the very least, I sincerely doubt The Pokemon Company was unprepared for this by the time Sakurai was choosing newcomers. It's very likely they may have told him to wait a little while because they have something special for him, which he's done before.

I think the process by making a decision like this is more complicated and strategic than you give it credit for. I think you're characterizing it as eager and incidental. That's just my take on it.

Okay... what?

I have major problems with your argument:

1. You don't think Sakurai would pick starter Pokémon... when of all the 9 Pokémon already chosen, a little over half are starters (specifically, Pikachu, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Charizard, Greninja; 55%).
2. Decidueye, Incineroar and UBs like Buzzwole have just as good designs as Zeraora, some would say better (I wouldn't necessarily, but I'm not everyone)
3. Zeraora has untested popularity (yes, this was also a problem for Greninja, but Greninja's also a starter)
4. Datamine debuts aren't official debuts.
5. Being the last Pokémon in the Pokédex means literally nothing. Otherwise we'd get Mew, Celebi, Deoxys, Arceus, Genesect or Volcanion. Oh wait.
6. Zeraora was probably held off from Sun and Moon because he was unfinished. That's a major downside compared to the presumably finished SM Pokémon Sakurai could have picked.
7. Zeraora isn't getting pushed besides getting a movie. This didn't help Deoxys, Zoroark, Arceus, Marshadow... and many, many more. Lucario got a movie, but it was among the first Gen IV Pokémon revealed and was immediately popular.

I get it, you like Zeraora, but he isn't likely.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I said this once before in late 2013, but I'll say it again: Poochy would make for a great Assist Trophy.

He'll playfully knock around items on the ground and run aimlessly, ruinning into people, but can be controlled when a fighter stands on his head. He'll auto-jump when touching a ledge.

---

He's also the best thing Yoshi could have for a potential second rep, as well. Thanks to Woolly World, it's proven that he can fetch items with his mouth, and his pups can assist him. I could imagine a trailer where it looks like Yoshi's about to get killed, but then shortly afterwards we hear panting and Yoshi opens up his eyes, revealing Poochy.

 

[UltimateWario]

Given the Chozo blood and her crazy abilities she gets from the many suits, I honestly don't consider portal creation/warping a illogical part of her repertoire.

Dark Samus doesn't have Chozo blood or more than one suit (the Phazon Suit is her skin and it mutates further). She shares a little DNA with Samus but I'd hardly call that an excuse for portal creation. It's a minor nitpick, I guess.

 

[KMDP]

This is the first time I hear that every person has a set of opponents.

It was in the direct. Sakurai said it and it was shown in text: "Each fighter faces a specific set of opponents".

 

[XLIFE]

I think my question is, if Verg and Loz are legit, then it seems like they have 0 idea on echo fighters since, well yesterday happened, and I don't think either leaked Daisy.

Would that mean Isabelle wouldn't be an Echo of Villager?.... Honestly having a hard time imagining what she'd do when Villager's moveset fits her soo well already.

Loz is weird. This time around he talked about storyboard details, but last time he knew the entirety of the Smash portion of the E3 Direct. I think he got Nintendo Ninja'd, recently peaced out on Gamefaqs.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

It'd make more sense if DS's enterance was on a miniature leviathan (oxymoron, I know) seed that breaks open to reveal her.

As for Pokemon, that section of my brain to clings to hope like band aids cling to leg hairs is still stuck on that Sirnight leak and short of the leaker coming out and saying he was just talking claptrap, I'm stuck with it now until December.
This is going to sting.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Blood Falcon is already Falcon's Costume.

You say "Mr. L", I say "Dr. Luigi".

Dr.Luigi should be a semi clone of Dr.Mario...or his own unique character

And all hail the killing machine! View attachment 156711
Come to think of it, we have Pit & Palutena, and only have Dark Pit, could she fit the bill now? We could have an Angel & God vs. Angel & God match if it were the case; since Chrom is at the battlefield after all the harassment he's gotten over the years, I believe the Goddess of Nature might have a chance to show her true worthy.

Virid should’ve gotten in Smash 4 before Dark Pit (but only because more waifus and Reset Bombs as her final smash), but she fits the build extremely well...also Viridi probably doesn’t want to risk Chrom roasting her in any capacity

Man, as much as I would love Viridi, alas, she could technically be considered a stage hazard for Reset Bomb Forest (she IS the one who sends down the Reset Bomb, after all).

Maybe she can still appear on the Reset Bomb Forest stage, but sends no Reset Bombs, and instead can just talk to herself or something.