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Like most of you, I simply can’t get enough Smash. I’ve been rewatching videos of gameplay and the Direct from yesterday. I can’t help but get really excited about it.
I promised that I’d really go through some sort of analysis, or at least my outlook on the game from this point forward. Some of you may like what I’m thinking, some may not. I am not basing the following thoughts or predictions on anything in regards to inherent bias against some characters. This is simply what I think going forward.
I'd really love to see what you think of my thoughts here, but please read through it!
Shovel Knight being an Assist Trophy and being given extended screen time seems like it was meant to be a surprise. I’m really excited for Yacht Club and their character to make it into Smash. Despite him not being playable, I think it’s really cool that we have Shovel Knight in this position. That said, I firmly do not believe any Indie character will get into Smash as a playable character.
While he isn’t necessarily “Mr. Indie” worldwide, he’s a big enough indie icon to not only be across every single platform and already have a few crossovers under his belt, but he has his own amiibo line. Star Fox doesn’t even have an amiibo line of its own. Shantae for example might have been a big pick, but I don’t see her getting a playable spot if Shovel Knight of all Indie characters didn’t.
Based on the fact that Chrom is an Echo fighter and appears to be a mix of Roy and Ike or sorts, he seems more like the equivalent to a “Semi-Echo”. Yes, that’s a fan-made term. YOU CAN’T HAVE IT. IT’S MINE.
Anyway, because of this, I firmly think we’re going to get Dixie Kong as an Echo (or semi-echo) of Diddy Kong. Based on the scope of the game and the at least centered focus on the addition of Echo Fighters, I think Dixie is a prime candidate for the role, and would in my humble opinion cap off the Donkey Kong series roster rather solidly.
With Simon Belmont being accompanied by Richter Belmont, I must admit I was astounded. I was of the opinion that 3rd Party series wouldn’t get Echo fighters. That said, I believe the 3rd Party Echo Fighter, or at least the one that would not only make a lot of sense but also be considered the most popular choice, is Shadow the Hedgehog. Again, based on the way that Chrom is different than Roy despite being considered an Echo Fighter, Shadow being similar yet different to Sonic makes a lot of sense.
In addition to Shadow, the only other 3rd Party on the base roster I can see us getting is Ken from Street Fighter as an Echo of Ryu. Not only would this be a classic usage of the “Echo” idea, but I’m sure Ken would be a decently popular pick. Ken is an icon in his own right as well. Maybe not to the level of others, but he’s up there.
The way Sakurai worded the “103 stages” thing, I have to wonder if we’re not getting any further characters who would be supplemented with stages. There is the Monster Hunter stage with the Rathalos boss, but there’s no real indication if that’s going to have a stage to itself. As seen with Dracula, despite it being from Castlevania, it’s a completely different stage than the actual “Dracula’s Castle” stage we saw originally. It’s an entirely flat terrain. This makes it seem like it would be a “Boss Rush” type mode, which could only be supplements by one thing…
That thing is a potential story mode! It’s my understanding that the blurred out image said, “Spirits”, and that sounds honestly creepy with no context (poor Luigi!). I have a feeling it’s some sort of story mode, but I can’t really predict what it would be like. It can’t be similar to the scope of SSE simply based on the data on the cartridge being 16GB (or whatever it was that made it vastly smaller than Brawl), but it is going to have to be somewhat similar if we have not only Dracula, but Rathalos as well.
Something that I think people are missing is the fact that Sakurai said, “We have a few more newcomers to get too later on”, and how they’re going to share details on all characters prior to launch. This brings me to my biggest point, and I think it’s actually pretty important. It isn’t going to get a number, but a whole section to itself.
This next part is, to me, the more mind blowing part. Somebody else might have mentioned this, but I'm freaking out about it if I'm right.
Smashdown.
This mode was presented as a party mode in which up to 4 players pick from the roster and fight until there’s nobody left. From the description of the website, it says, “You and a friend can play through the full roster to see who comes out on top in Smashdown.” Based on this description, it would appear that you might be able to play with 2-4 players. I think if you look more closely at it, we may have an idea of how large the roster is going to total out to be.
For this mode to work properly, the total number characters on the Character Select Screen would need to be divisible by not only 4, but 3 and 2 as well. While we already have 73 total characters including echoes, that doesn’t apply to the CSS. Directly from the website:
This Character Select screen is made up of every single character in the roster except for the Mii Fighters and 2 out of the 3 Pokemon for the Pokemon Trainer, as Pokemon Trainer only takes up one slot on the Character Select Screen. After subtracting the Mii Fighters and 2 of the Pokemon, we’re down to a total of 68 characters on the Character Select Screen. (my guess is, btw, that you can't combine Echo Fighters for this mode.)
Sakurai said we still have a few newbies left. Again, for Smashdown to work properly, the roster mathematically must be divisible by at least 2 and 4 (I’m still unsure if the mode can be played by only 3 players, but I don’t really see why it wouldn’t be).
We’re already in the 60’s, just below 70. We’re getting a few more as Sakurai already said. This would imply that the roster would at least be a number over 70 that is divisible by 2, 3, and 4.
Because I’m wonderful, I already did that.
To be clear, the rules of division for 2, 3, and 4 are as follows:
2- divisible if last digit is 0, 2, 4, 6, or 8
3- sum of digits is divisible by 3
4- number formed by last two digits is divisible by 4
These three rules indicate that there are only a few options in terms of what is possible with this roster. In a roster that excludes Mii Fighters and ⅔ of the Pokemon Trainer, the only total amounts that allow for Smashdown to play all the way through the roster by 2 players, 3 players, AND 4 players are: 72, 84, and 96. This would leave us with 4 newcomers left, or 16 left.
Mind you, these 3 totals are without the 5 characters we’ve removed. In total, these would respectively leave us with a roster of 77, 89, and 101 respectively.
Obviously, when Sakurai says, “a few” he doesn’t mean something like 30 more characters. I also have a hard time viewing “a few” as over 20 newcomers in total. He means a few. He’s also said to not expect as many newcomers this time. However, we’ve already gotten 8 newcomers, with 4 of them being Echo Fighters.
Compared to previous games, Melee added 14 newcomers, while Brawl added 18. If we get 4 more characters, not only would that be less than Melees 14, but it would also give us a roster that completely works with Smashdown regardless of having 2 players, 3 players, or 4 players.
This all assumes that Smashdown isn’t always 4 players, and that the matches aren’t filled with CPUs that pick their own characters when not filled to capacity with human players. If that is the case, and CPUs always fill out Smashdown to 4 players, then that opens up the possibility to 76, 80, 84, 88, and 92.
Once again, respectively we’d have a full roster of 81, 85, 89, 93, and 97 when you add in Ivysaur and Charizard, and then all 3 Mii Fighters. The upper numbers are unrealistic in base roster if you ask me, but possible after DLC.
I’m still not done toying with what I’ve seen thus far, but I’m also thinking we need to temper expectations in regards to how many we’re projecting to get.
I’ll have some sort of prediction roster ready soon! Thanks for reading, I hope you didn’t get bored!
So what do you think? Is there something I've missed? Would you be fine with a roster of only 4 more characters added? Who do you think they'll be?
This is an interesting theory, but personally I would not look into this too much. This feels about as grasping as the slot 12 S64 character roster theory to me. The Smashdown mode is probably going to be adjusted in a way that if one player had no character to choose from left, the game would have an extra rule to give the leftover player a character to play as, like letting the player choose an already used fighter.
I would not look into Sakurai's statements too literally either. I can easily see this roster getting over 80+ characters with echos. We are probably going to get SEVERAL echos to fill in the roster, at least 8-10+ new echos total.
As much as I love me some Captain Toad and Bandana Dee, the Cult is just full of interesting, varied fighters that would no doubt have unique movesets, all with a legacy brhind them.
Rex, I really don't care for, while Pokémon would just be a "neat" from me.
There's more fun to be had out of a pleasant surprise rather than the new, expected flavor-of-the-month
I've been watching a lot of Direct Reactions today (well: Alpharad, Rogersbase, RelaxAlax, Maximilian Dood, SomeCallMeJohnny, Arlo, Nairo and Tom Fawkes)
I'm actually kind of surprised how many people just completely ignored the "In Classic Mode, each fighter faces a specific set of opponents" thing.
I mean, that's pretty clear and it's not like that's hard to understand.
Like it says that on the screen and some of them turn around and say "It's random". Like... what?
Also, I found it incredibly funny (also frustrating) how so incredibly sure RelaxAlax was that Chrom had to be an Ike clone that he thought Chrom being next to Roy on the Smashdown screen was a mistake.
This is an interesting theory, but personally I would not look into this too much. This feels about as grasping as the slot 12 S64 character roster theory to me. I would not look into Sakurai's statements too literally either. I can easily see this roster getting over 80+ characters with echos. We are probably going to get SEVERAL echos to fill in the roster, at least 8-10+ new echos total.
It's not really looking into it too deeply though. It's based on the purpose of the mode, and how the mode theoretically works.
As in, if it's a certain amount of characters and there are 4 players playing...and there's only 2 characters left...the mode would be broken and wouldn't work properly. Theoretically, it would have to leave us with a total number of characters that fits any scenario of 2, 3, and 4 players.
I think the total is more debatable. But the math behind it is all there. For the mode to function properly, the math has to work.
How would Smashdown work as you're unlocking characters, then?
Or would it only unlock after you have all of them?
Because if not, you can definitely end up playing it with a prime number of characters.
How would Smashdown work as you're unlocking characters, then?
Or would it only unlock after you have all of them?
Because if not, you can definitely end up playing it with a prime number of characters.
I just want to say that I really hope Isabelle is an Echo.
I’m not gonna say something stupid like how the character would be a waste of resources if she were unique, which isn’t really fair since she’s a popular character in her own right, but at the same time I feel that there’s other characters that could be given the time and effort put into them, whereas if she were a Villager Echo it would be a perfect compromise since it wouldn’t take as much time and resources compared to other characters.
Call it an unpopular opinion, but that’s my thoughts on the standing.
I don't really care all that much about any of the others.
Skull Kid? I'd rather have Impa or Vaati.
Geno? Never played SMRPG, have no connection.
Banjo & Kazooie? Never played their games.
Gen VII Pokémon? Mostly happy with the current Pokéselection.
Captain Toad? Not interested.
Elma/Rex? Haven't played Xenoblade
Bandana Dee? Don't play much Kirby. The only Kirby games I've played are Dream Land, Dream Course, 64 and Adventure, in that order.
Would you all be open to the remaining of the original eight getting their respective villains in, such as Porky or Gigyas for Ness and Black Shadow for Captain Falcon? Idk about Yoshi tho since he’s so closely related to Mario. It seems somewhat likely, or at least more likely than it did with the whole Heroes vs Villains thing going on.
Would you all be open to the remaining of the original eight getting their respective villains in, such as Porky or Gigyas for Ness and Black Shadow for Captain Falcon? Idk about Yoshi tho since he’s so closely related to Mario. It seems somewhat likely, or at least more likely than it did with the whole Heroes vs Villains thing going on.
I don't think the mode would be broken Scoliosis. I can guarantee there will be a majority of players who will play Smashdown with an odd number of characters with not every character unlocked. The development team behind this mode will most likely be aware of this issue. There will likely be an extra rules attached for Smashdown to give the leftover players a character, should the roster boil down to its last characters in the endgame.
Would you all be open to the remaining of the original eight getting their respective villains in, such as Porky or Gigyas for Ness and Black Shadow for Captain Falcon? Idk about Yoshi tho since he’s so closely related to Mario. It seems somewhat likely, or at least more likely than it did with the whole Heroes vs Villains thing going on.
I would absolutely love to get Porky and Black Shadow. I don't think Porky is likely, but if Black Shadow is popular enough (he's probably not) I could see him getting in as an echo.
How would Smashdown work as you're unlocking characters, then?
Or would it only unlock after you have all of them?
Because if not, you can definitely end up playing it with a prime number of characters.
So by that you mean "everyone except Pikachu"? Don't argue about Mewtwo either, you saw the K. Rool trailer. If we didnt see a Pika Pika, there's no riva-l riva-l or whatever Nintendo likes to use in place of the world villain/antagonist.
Zeraora's debut is about as late as Greninja's was. I mean, conception wise, because he was discovered in fully finished form via datamine in 2017. So his concept art definitely existed way before that, which is what Sakurai chose Greninja based off of.
Zeraora just seems like perfect timing to me. A brand new movie, just weeks before Super Smash Bros Ultimate is released.
It's actually pretty easy to find the stock icons for new characters. Just go to the fighter page on the official website and click "Display by series".
So by that you mean "everyone except Pikachu"? Don't argue about Mewtwo either, you saw the K. Rool trailer. If we didnt see a Pika Pika, there's no riva-l riva-l or whatever Nintendo likes to use in place of the world villain/antagonist.
Since the Kirby vs. Meta Knight pairing proves that it doesn't have to be the absolute bad guy of the respective franchise, Kamek does work. However, since Mushroom Kingdom U is confirmed that may have inadvertently disconfirmed him even though we haven't seen him yet.
That's why MY most wanted, Boshi, might actually be plausible if Geno gets in
Would you all be open to the remaining of the original eight getting their respective villains in, such as Porky or Gigyas for Ness and Black Shadow for Captain Falcon? Idk about Yoshi tho since he’s so closely related to Mario. It seems somewhat likely, or at least more likely than it did with the whole Heroes vs Villains thing going on.
Literally the only hope of Earthbound and F-Zero getting any more reps at this point. Heck, Black Shadow as a clone has been a thing even back in the Brawl days, I believe. But now, I think the Rivalry theme we saw could potentially boost his odds even more. And if not? At least give us a costume.
As for Porky? Gosh, I can see him being a boss again, and while I would like another playable Mother character, it's completely niche, albeit it DOES hold a legacy and is considered a classic and favorite game to many. Undertale, a popular series, was even popularly known to have some influences from the game, with Game Theory being the victim of a new meme due to his "Sans is Ness" theory. So while I won't consider it impossible, I won't consider it too likely either. Again, I'd settle for. Ninten echo or costume too.
It's called "Rivals" for a reason, not "Villains". I'd argue the validity of Wolf being featured if it was called as such then, because that would've been Andross.
Zeraora's debut is about as late as Greninja's was. I mean, conception wise, because he was discovered in fully finished form via datamine in 2017. So his concept art definitely existed way before that, which is what Sakurai chose Greninja based off of.
Zeraora just seems like perfect timing to me. A brand new movie, just weeks before Super Smash Bros Ultimate is released.
Kind of cheating, but I'm going to do the same thing as RandomAce and take two from each.
-Gen 7 Pokemon / Pokemon Sun and Moon - I really just want an Alola stage but I love the designs of most Gen 7 Pokes so I'm down for anyone of them.
-Skull Kid / TLoZ Majora's Mask - Probably my third favorite Zelda game behind BOTW and WW. Always great to get more villains in the game, and a unique Zelda newcomer is always a good thing.
-Geno / Super Mario RPG - Haven't played the game but he looks like he could play very well. Also highly requested for a long time.
-Bandanna Waddle Dee / Kirby - Only missing guy from main Kirby cast. Very popular pick.
Since the Kirby vs. Meta Knight pairing proves that it doesn't have to be the absolute bad guy of the respective franchise, Kamek does work. However, since Mushroom Kingdom U is confirmed that may have inadvertently disconfirmed him even though we haven't seen him yet.
That's why MY most wanted, Boshi, might actually be plausible if Geno gets in
It's actually pretty easy to find the stock icons for new characters. Just go to the fighter page on the official website and click "Display by series".
Also I think Geno might be the last character to reveal and in the roster. Starting from Mario and ending to Geno; both from the Super Mario franchise.
Also I think Geno might be the last character to reveal and in the roster. Starting from Mario and ending to Geno; both from the Super Mario franchise.
That doesn't make a lot of sense. They've been going heavy hitter after heavy hitter with character reveals.
I wouldn't be surprised if Isaac and Geno were shown in the same direct to cap off the "yeah okay here you go stop asking me for things" checklist of things to show off.
Zeraora's debut is about as late as Greninja's was. I mean, conception wise, because he was discovered in fully finished form via datamine in 2017. So his concept art definitely existed way before that, which is what Sakurai chose Greninja based off of.
Zeraora just seems like perfect timing to me. A brand new movie, just weeks before Super Smash Bros Ultimate is released.
Don't argue about Mewtwo either, you saw the K. Rool trailer. If we didnt see a Pika Pika, there's no riva-l riva-l or whatever Nintendo likes to use in place of the world villain/antagonist.
