Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[BlueMagician]

So for icons, has anyone seen Nana's in-game icon yet?

 

[Untouch]

I know that Skull Kid and Majora aren't the same, but Skull Kid could use a lot of Majora's attacks.
Whips, the energy lasers, floating.

 

[Zeox]

Small thing about Smashdown mode I keep seeing people bring up- while the number of characters almost definitely should be a multiple of 4 in the event that 4 players want to play, shouldn't it also be divisible by 3 if only 3 want to play? The mode has no reason (from what I can tell) to be restricted to 4 players, so I feel like that's something else to consider. Since it counts Echoes separately, and we're at 73 fighters counting Echoes, we're not at a number divisible by both 3 and 4 until 84 fighters.
This is all assuming the mode doesn't say 'Alright, nobody gets the leftovers if there's too few', but it's something to think about. Of course, single-character DLC releases would also throw a wrench in this.

I... that's.... oh my...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

When people say "[my character] survived the Assist Trophy massacre", they mean this massacre specifically, knowing there's probably going to be another.

Dovahkiin is still alive! He probably won't ever get taken in the assist massacres...because he won't be in the game...

Still haven't seen Diddy or Yoshi's new FS. Makes me wonder if they're going to reveal both in a direct

Spoiler

along with Kamek.

At this point, whose Final Smashes haven't we seen?

ultwiifittrainer:

I'm guessing Cap, DHD, Gren, Luigi, MK, ROB, WFT will all be keeping theirs. YL'll probably get Triforce Slash, but please be Fierce Deity for that. Lucario'll probably go back to his old one. Diddy's will most likely be automated but functionally the same, possibly also for Yoshi. Robin, though...needs a new one (Pair with a different character?). And Peach/Daisy should get new ones as well since that one is a bit slow in terms of action.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I hope all stages return as dlc. And echos get added as dlc.

I know season passes suck, but a 40 season pass with the promise of 4 unique characters, all past stages returning and a out 10 echos would get my purchase day 1.

 

[dezeray112]

Does anyone have a link to where loz18 stated the possibility of Skull Kid being playable?

 

[Sigran101]

My official roster prediction:

Echoes- Isabell, Dixie Kong, Ken, Shadow

Unique- Skull Kid, Elma, Gen 7 pokemon, Geno

Total of 8 unique newcomers and 8 echoes. Since Sakurai doesn't seem to count echoes I think that qualifies as not "too many".

 

[Untouch]

Characters that'll likely be having new FS.

• Yoshi
• Diddy
• Robin
• Daisy

Diddy and Yoshi are transformation based, Robin doesn't have Chrom anymore, Daisy wouldn't make sense with Peach's FS for obvious reasons.

 

[Pakky]

• Rathalos Armor (Monster Hunter)

This was a costume for Miis way back when, think about that.

On the topic is King K Rool getting his other costumes I wonder.

and is DK getting the gloves?

 

[drag0nscythe]

My official roster prediction:

Echoes- Isabell, Dixie Kong, Ken, Shadow

Unique- Skull Kid, Elma, Gen 7 pokemon, Geno

Total of 8 unique newcomers and 8 echoes. Since Sakurai doesn't seem to count echoes I think that qualifies as not "too many".

Switch out any of them for bandanna dee, and i am good.

 

[Deleted member]

Robin, though...needs a new one (Pair with a different character?)

Robin should still summon Chrom just so we can kill Chrom with Chrom, and when Robin wins, he poses with Chrom while Chrom applauds.

In all seriousness, keep Pair Up but switch Chrom with Morgan.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I hope all stages return as dlc. And echos get added as dlc.

I know season passes suck, but a 40 season pass with the promise of 4 unique characters, all past stages returning and a out 10 echos would get my purchase day 1.

I don’t think we need all stages back (like, we don’t need FZ1 and FZ2 when we got FZX and maybe/maybe not Pitochat 1, but others yeah...in the base game...and new stages and characters and all that mahogany as a dlc pack)

Robin should still summon Chrom just so we can kill Chrom with Chrom, and when Robin wins, he poses with Chrom while Chrom applauds.

In all seriousness, keep Pair Up but switch Chrom with Morgan.

Cordelia or Tharja >

 

[KMDP]

Agreed. It would be a fun thought project, though. Like, you would be hard-pressed to find an echo for Ridley even.

"Thought Project"?

You mean "Thought Experiment".

And Dr. Luigi is Dr. Mario's echo. Exactly the same but slightly taller.
That's his signature variance.

EDIT: wait... signature variance... that gives me a thought about echos... :0

Some Echo Ideas

Jumpman (Mario) - Plays like 64/Melee Mario, as I said before.​

Dr. Luigi (Luigi) - Plays like a combination of Luigi and Dr. Mario.​

Impa (Sheik) - ???​

Hilda (Zelda) - What's different? I had an idea that instead of Din's Fire she could have a similar acting freezing spell instead.​

Black Shadow (Ganondorf) - Is just straight up Falcondorf.​

Raiden or The Boss (Snake) - Has different animations, like Richter. Not sure about more detailed changes.​

Black Knight (Ike) - Has "Eclipse" as his side special instead of Quick Draw, it's essentially as slower Double-Edge Dance that eats through shields like crazy.​

Dixie (Diddy) - Plays like Diddy, but pulls elements from DK.​

Shadow (Sonic) - Has Chaos Control (Teleport) and Chaos Spear (Palutena Bow, can't be controlled after firing) instead of the Spring and the Side Spin Dash.​

Isabelle (Villager) - ???​

Medusa (Palutena) - Had trouble thinking of a difference, but what if she has Mewtwo's Disable? (Referencing the whole... Medusa thing)​

Celica (Robin) - Has no weapon durability, but her spells instead damage her slightly. Her Spell Attacks use "Light" elemental animations instead of Fire/Wind/Thunder/Dark elemental animations.​

Ken (Ryu) - Different like he is in Street Fighter, his Focus Attack is a Kick instead of a Punch (like in SFIV)​

Zack (Cloud) - Lacks the limit system, but his specials are slightly stronger than Cloud's base level to compensate. His Finishing Touch is just a normal attack (does regular damage and knockback instead of 1% and HUGE Knockback).​

Octoling (Inkling) - Has different coloured Ink sets (there was a post many weeks back pointing out that there's more colours to be had), their Ink increases knockback instead of damage.​

Finally

Gothitelle (Gardevoir) - Sort of like the opposite of Dark Samus to Samus, Gardevoir is floaty, Gothitelle isn't.​

Charlotte (Hector) - Faster, but less damaging maybe? Also it'd be hilarious if the first non-Lord Fire Emblem character is some nobody Border Guard from Fates. ​

Small thing about Smashdown mode I keep seeing people bring up- while the number of characters almost definitely should be a multiple of 4 in the event that 4 players want to play, shouldn't it also be divisible by 3 if only 3 want to play? The mode has no reason (from what I can tell) to be restricted to 4 players, so I feel like that's something else to consider. Since it counts Echoes separately, and we're at 73 fighters counting Echoes, we're not at a number divisible by both 3 and 4 until 84 fighters.
This is all assuming the mode doesn't say 'Alright, nobody gets the leftovers if there's too few', but it's something to think about. Of course, single-character DLC releases would also throw a wrench in this.

I was thinking about the new mode Smash Down.

Right now, we have 68 characters, including Echoes but not including Mii Fighters (it seems the Miis are ineligible, going by the Direct); 68 characters allow all players in a 4-Player Smash Down to use one player each for each round (for 17 Rounds).

I know this is as arbitrary as the old "Even Rectangle Roster" theory which gave us 7 Possible Newcomers, but what if the subsequent reveals end up as some multiple of four by the end of everything?

Great minds think alike.

84 Fighters sounds pretty good to me. >_>

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

I had an idea for a Smash Trailer. I am not sure if either charcter will make it in but i think these two charcters being paired together make sense.

I had an idea of a potential Smash Trailer and how it would play out:

Fiery Fighters

In starts in a boxing style ring with Little Mac entering the boxing ring - crowds cheering and Little Mac raising his hands in triumph. But then his opponent comes running in - Ken Masters who jumps on the boxing ring. The Annoucer says 3,2,1 go and there is a well choreographed fight of Little Mac and Ken Masters fighting it out - there is a scene where Ken Masters gets knocked back and we see his eye which transits into some gameplay footage of Ken showing the differences between Ryu and Ken in terms of their moveset despite Ken being an Echo Fighter. Then Ken gets up and the fight continues with Ken landing a combo on Little Mac ending the match. Little Mac is knocked down - the crowd roars in triumph and then the announcer reveals that a very special combatant has entered the ring - Ken looks at the entrance and sees a thing in a cloak, it goes to the Boxing Ring and jumps up removing the cloak and reveals itself to be Incineroar - it goes to 3,2,1 go and the two have an exchange of blows before transitioning to Incineroar’s gameplay - the two have a final exchange of attacks and it ends with Ken preparing his Shrouyken and Incineroar performing a fire punch ending the trailer.

The more i thought about it - Ken Masters and Incineroar being paired together in a Smash Trailer makes a lot of sense to me.This wouldn't be a Smash Direct Trailer rather it would appear in a normal Nintendo Direct.

 

[Deleted member]

Tharja

Didn't they have to edit Palutena's model to show less leg due to rating issues?

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

I had an idea for a Smash Trailer. I am not sure if either charcter will make it in but i think these two charcters being paired together make sense.

I had an idea of a potential Smash Trailer and how it would play out:

Fiery Fighters

In starts in a boxing style ring with Little Mac entering the boxing ring - crowds cheering and Little Mac raising his hands in triumph. But then his opponent comes running in - Ken Masters who jumps on the boxing ring. The Annoucer says 3,2,1 go and there is a well choreographed fight of Little Mac and Ken Masters fighting it out - there is a scene where Ken Masters gets knocked back and we see his eye which transits into some gameplay footage of Ken showing the differences between Ryu and Ken in terms of their moveset despite Ken being an Echo Fighter. Then Ken gets up and the fight continues with Ken landing a combo on Little Mac ending the match. Little Mac is knocked down - the crowd roars in triumph and then the announcer reveals that a very special combatant has entered the ring - Ken looks at the entrance and sees a thing in a cloak, it goes to the Boxing Ring and jumps up removing the cloak and reveals itself to be Incineroar - it goes to 3,2,1 go and the two have an exchange of blows before transitioning to Incineroar’s gameplay - the two have a final exchange of attacks and it ends with Ken preparing his Shrouyken and Incineroar performing a fire punch ending the trailer.

The more i thought about it - Ken Masters and Incineroar being paired together in a Smash Trailer makes a lot of sense to me.This wouldn't be a Smash Direct Trailer rather it would appear in a normal Nintendo Direct.

I have a feeling that Ryu is going to get an echo and i bet my money it will be Ken. It could be Akuma but i still bet on Ken.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I don’t think we need all stages back (like, we don’t need FZ1 and FZ2 when we got FZX and maybe/maybe not Pitochat 1, but others yeah...in the base game...and new stages and characters and all that mahogany as a dlc pack)

Cordelia or Tharja >

Yeah. But it is like young link and toon link. Effectively the same, but not.

Tharja might have trouble. She was the only trophy removed from smash4.

Why is everyone says skull kid. Is he really that popular still. I mean majoras mask is myfavorite zelda game, but is he needed? We need bandanna dee.

And since konami is being so nice. Goemon dlc please. Will pay 50 bucks for 1 character, 4 trophies and 1 stage. Just for him

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You know, after seeing the Chrom video, I'm noticing that the Slam (SFX ID 0xE) sound effect is becoming even less unique to Ike. And the irony is that Ike, Ganondorf, and Cloud are the only fighters (so far) who use a two-handed sword, which works a lot better with that specific sound effect. Of course, Cloud does have his own unique hitbox sound effects.

I'm really confused about how Echoes work now. Because if Chrom is a Roy echo, but he has Ike's aether, why is Dr. Mario not an echo? Like YL and TL are so different from the main Link that they're on their playing field, but Dr. Mario doesn't have an excuse.

Mobility differences are probably the main reason why Dr. Mario isn't an Echo Fighter.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I wonder if Golden Sun is actually going to get significantly more representation than in Smash 4?

For the longest time it was unfortunate how many people thought K. Rool and Ridley would be in this game and, uh, welp.

Just saying, don't write off characters just yet. We haven't even seen the base roster yet so DLC is another can of worms to go through.

Ridley, King K Rool, and Daisy all say hi

Ridley's too big and kids don't know who K. Rool is, they'll never make it in!

 

[Deleted member]

Do Simon and Richter count as a Third Party?

 

[Deleted member]

I have a feeling that Ryu is going to get an echo and i bet my money it will be Ken. It could be Akuma but i still bet on Ken.

Plot Twist: it's Dan. They did remove Ryu's Dan styled alt after all...

Do Simon and Richter count as a Third Party?

Yes they do.

 

[Untouch]

Do Simon and Richter count as a Third Party?

Yeah, Castlevania is a Konami IP.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

Plot Twist: it's Dan. They did remove Ryu's Dan styled alt after all...


Yes they do.

I would be shocked if Dan got in as Ryu's echo over Ken,Sakura or Akuma

 

[Pyra]

"Thought Project"?

You mean "Thought Experiment".

Some Echo Ideas

Jumpman (Mario) - Plays like 64/Melee Mario, as I said before.​

Dr. Luigi (Luigi) - Plays like a combination of Luigi and Dr. Mario.​

Impa (Sheik) - ???​

Hilda (Zelda) - What's different? I had an idea that instead of Din's Fire she could have a similar acting freezing spell instead.​

Black Shadow (Ganondorf) - Is just straight up Falcondorf.​

Raiden or The Boss (Snake) - Has different animations, like Richter. Not sure about more detailed changes.​

Black Knight (Ike) - Has "Eclipse" as his side special instead of Quick Draw, it's essentially as slower Double-Edge Dance that eats through shields like crazy.​

Dixie (Diddy) - Plays like Diddy, but pulls elements from DK.​

Shadow (Sonic) - Has Chaos Control (Teleport) and Chaos Spear (Palutena Bow, can't be controlled after firing) instead of the Spring and the Side Spin Dash.​

Isabelle (Villager) - ???​

Medusa (Palutena) - Had trouble thinking of a difference, but what if she has Mewtwo's Disable? (Referencing the whole... Medusa thing)​

Ken (Ryu) - Different like he is in Street Fighter, his Focus Attack is a Kick instead of a Punch (like in SFIV)​

Zack (Cloud) - Lacks the limit system, but his specials are slightly stronger than Cloud's base level to compensate.​

Octoling (Inkling) - Has different coloured Ink sets (there was a post many weeks back pointing out that there's more colours to be had), their Ink increases knockback instead of damage.​

Finally

Gothitelle (Gardevoir) - Sort of like the opposite of Dark Samus to Samus, Gardevoir is floaty, Gothitelle isn't.​

Charlotte (Hector) - Faster, but less damaging maybe? Also it'd be hilarious if the first non-Lord Fire Emblem character is some nobody Border Guard from Fates. ​

​

I meant "Thought Project" because it's more than experimentation.
That's my lame excuse for being too tired to remember set phrases.

I think we could refine the list and those differences. For instance, Dr. Luigi might of course be a Chrom-ish echo (as far as we are assuming what Chrom/Roy's relationship is anyway) where he's a hybrid. Instead of the "cape", he gets his rocket move, but doesn't slip around anymore. Non slip shoes. He's a professional.

Black Shadow definitely just old Ganondorf.

Dixie, you would think Diddy, sure. But for some reason I feel like she'd be closer to a Semi-clone than I can stretch an echo out in my head.

But yeah it would be pretty awesome, honestly, if we ended up getting a ton of echos scattered through the roster.

Impa could have fewer, stronger needles and Isabelle probably won't be an echo but if she is maybe it'll be that a lot of what she has has a tipper mechanic. Lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes they do.

Yeah, Castlevania is a Konami IP.

I already knew, but I wanted to be safe.
Considering we got Richter, that means that the stupid argument "Oh only one third party member per series." is finally over.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Probably not gonna be as active as I was before, but I'm gonna say something that probably sounds crazy: I still don't believe Vergeben.
I already thought Simon was likely due to Bomberman being sent to the AT shadow realm, Konami being on board and Sakurai stating that he's a Castlevania fan, and he only got part of the information right so far.
Maybe I'm just grasping at straws because I really want Decidueye, but this is how I feel about the whole thing.

Is this a MHA reference? Hopefully they do. I've always imagined it being incorperated into my vision of a story mode.

Lampy! Today I realized since Mimikyu has been deconfirmed we can root for the same Ghost owl! This is very exciting.

As for Vergeben, I think his issue is he has too many sources and puts too much faith in them all. I think the only accurate sources he had were his original (so I still expect a Minecraft stage) and the recent one that mentioned Isabelle along with Simon because he was so confident about it.

Personally this Pokemon source seems to be a bit all over the place and he's not seeming confident with it. So I think we don't have much to worry about it...

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, Castlevania is a Konami IP.

Remember when Snake wasn't coming back because Konami? Those were good times.

 

[Untouch]

The only "big" japanese publisher (that is at least involved with Nintendo in some way) seems to be ATLUS or maybe Tecmo Koei.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Here's something I've been thinking about: assuming that characters from Treasure can make it at all, I have determined that the only viable ones are Marina Liteyears (who did at least get a second appearance in the Japan-only PSX fighting game Rakugo Showtime) and the S&P protags (and Gunstar (Super) Heroes' Red and Blue, if we're feeling generous).

The reasons for this is that most Treasure characters either never had any sequels (e.g. Dynamite Headdy, Silhouette Mirage), need lots of moveset creativity (the heroes of Bangai-O, Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga) or quite simply didn't leave much of a big impression on Nintendo consoles (Guardian Heroes' heroes). Aside from those reasons, very few Treasure characters can be considered iconic.

Marina, Saki and Isa, however, are strongly linked to Nintendo releases, so people nostalgic for their games having started on the N64 would want to support them. On the other hand, Red and Blue are among the most notorious Treasure characters thanks to their cult classic Genesis game, so who can get in (if anyone) is anybody's guess.

I mean, hell yeah!

and then people will say 'Who's this fat guy? Mario's dad?"

Topical

Nah, they'll go "Theodore Roosevelt is in a Nintendo game!?".

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

Lampy! Today I realized since Mimikyu has been deconfirmed we can root for the same Ghost owl! This is very exciting.

As for Vergeben, I think his issue is he has too many sources and puts too much faith in them all. I think the only accurate sources he had were his original (so I still expect a Minecraft stage) and the recent one that mentioned Isabelle along with Simon because he was so confident about it.

Personally this Pokemon source seems to be a bit all over the place and he's not seeming confident with it. So I think we don't have much to worry about it...

Honestly i think we will get a Gen 7 Pokemon but the more i thought about it - the more Incineroar makes sense to me

 

[Pakky]

Topical because, yeah don't harass people man.

 

[Corbin]

Something to consider regarding relevancy though:

Could K. Rool's nostalgia factor sell more DK games? Probably.

Could Simon or Richter do the same for Castlevania? Yeah, I think so.

What does Geno sell more of? Super Mario RPG... 2......?

SNES Classic features SMRPG

 

[Deleted member]

Topical because, yeah don't harass people man.

I really dislike how Ridley's tail is set up.

 

[Pyra]

Topical because, yeah don't harass people man.

I want Waluigi to have his own game more than I want him to be playable.
I think that would be a better first step haha.

 

[Heracr055]

I'm pretty satisfied with the cast we've been shown so far. The only unique character I could ask for is Shantae. Her normals, smashes and aerials could be hair based attacks. Her down B could activate her animal transformations, whom would have their own properties/moves (much like the Sheik/Zelda transformations pre-Smash 4). At least a moveset would be conceivable for her...
Oh, and ofc she would have a crouch

 

[Gimmick-Hater]

I'm waiting for a third party guest character that'd really blow my mind. Something on the level of Cloud... Maybe Scorpion or Lara Croft. Heck, even Master Chief would do at this point... I just want to feel the same way I did when Tekken announced Negan, which was simply "WTF?!".

 

[Pakky]

I want Waluigi to have his own game more than I want him to be playable.
I think that would be a better first step haha.

Its funny that his bro has two franchises while he has nothing.

But yeah he needs a game (His own identity anyone can Kart and play tennis) to get into Smash.

That's not out of malice because I actually LOVE his design and his personality but yeah he needs his own something.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

If we get four more echo fighters then my bet is:

Isabelle (echo of villager)
Ken (echo of Ryu)
Shadow (echo of Sonic)
Dixie Kong (echo of Diddy Kong)

 

[osby]

If we get four more echo fighters then my bet is:

Isabelle (echo of villager)
Ken (echo of Ryu)
Shadow (echo of Sonic)
Dixie Kong (echo of Diddy Kong)

I really want Isabelle and Dixie.
And Shadow, because he's great and he'd make gen wunners of Sonic mad.

 

[Pyra]

gen wunners of Sonic

I'm not sure that's the right word you want to use.
Don't get me wrong, I know you're drawing a parallel, but hoo boy