Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Roberto zampari]

I liked the direct of Smash Bros Ultimate.
It's fun, but i have a question:

If K. Rool was confirmed as a fighter, does this mean we have Banjo-Kazooie?

 

[Pyra]

I liked the direct of Smash Bros Ultimate.
It's fun, but i have a question:

If K. Rool was confirmed as a fighter, does this mean we have Banjo-Kazooie?

Well, despite it being Rare's specific design of K Rool, his inclusion isn't exactly more helpful for BK than Diddy's was... and it wasn't imo.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So the stages that are not in Ultimate are
Planet Zebes
Sector Z
Mute City (Melee)
Icicle Mountain
Poke Floats
Flat Zone
Rumble Falls
Flat Zone 2
PictoChat (Brawl)
Rainbow Road
Pac-Maze
Woolly World
Jungle Hijinxs
Pyrosphere
Orbitial Gate Assault
And Miiverse

That sucks I wonder why they took some of them out not like they're awful stages

PAC-MAZE was made specifically for the Nintendo 3DS system. Pyrosphere's absence is likely due to Ridley's playable promotion.

Someone on Reddit brought up something interesting.

....why are there two Mario Shrooms?


One would assume that it's due to there just 'being a lot of Mario songs in Smash, but......

My best guess is that the Mario Kart BGM tracks will be placed in their own category, as evidenced in the past Smash Bros. installments.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Topical because, yeah don't harass people man.

Laughingreptiles.jpg

Its funny that his bro has two franchises while he has nothing.

But yeah he needs a game (His own identity anyone can Kart and play tennis) to get into Smash.

Yeah, he has to get out of Camelot's massive shadow sooner or later.

 

[osby]

I'm not sure that's the right word you want to use.
Don't get me wrong, I know you're drawing a parallel, but hoo boy

Um, I'm not sure what would be a better comparison.

 

[Untouch]

I'm sad, with stage hazards off it was time for Jungle Hijinx to be redeemed since the layout is pretty great actually, it's the gimmicks that get in the way.

 

[KMDP]

I'm not sure that's the right word you want to use.
Don't get me wrong, I know you're drawing a parallel, but hoo boy

"Sonic genwunners" would be the guys who only like Sonic 1, with Sonic 2 just being "okay".
And I am damn near certain those guys exist.

I think we could refine the list and those differences. For instance, Dr. Luigi might of course be a Chrom-ish echo (as far as we are assuming what Chrom/Roy's relationship is anyway) where he's a hybrid. Instead of the "cape", he gets his rocket move, but doesn't slip around anymore. Non slip shoes. He's a professional.

I can see it.

Black Shadow definitely just old Ganondorf.

The perfect remedy to not wanting to alienate old fans.

Dixie, you would think Diddy, sure. But for some reason I feel like she'd be closer to a Semi-clone than I can stretch an echo out in my head.

But yeah it would be pretty awesome, honestly, if we ended up getting a ton of echos scattered through the roster.

Impa could have fewer, stronger needles and Isabelle probably won't be an echo but if she is maybe it'll be that a lot of what she has has a tipper mechanic. Lol.

Your Impa idea is pretty good, tbh.

Funny how things change, just the day before yesterday, we would have balked at the notion of there being tons of Echoes. Now I'm okay with it, and okay with Echo Shadow.

Hah... feels good.

I already knew, but I wanted to be safe.
Considering we got Richter, that means that the stupid argument "Oh only one third party member per series." is finally over.

It was never a solid argument to begin with.

 

[Pyra]

Um, I'm not sure what would be a better comparison.

Well, it just took me aback because of the stigma of the word, but I'm sure that's what you were going for.
I think I misread your argument too, anyway. You meant those people who prefer the older generations of Sonic so obsessively that they trash people who like the newer ones, right? Because that's the feeling I associate with that word.

My bad, dude. Haha, it's hard to parse meaning sometimes on the internet.

"Sonic genwunners" would be the guys who only like Sonic 1, with Sonic 2 just being "okay".
And I am damn near certain those guys exist.

Yeah, i thought about it backwards by accident, which is why I misunderstood.

 

[Pakky]

The grammar on this one BOTHERS me but yeah they're right.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I liked the direct of Smash Bros Ultimate.
It's fun, but i have a question:

If K. Rool was confirmed as a fighter, does this mean we have Banjo-Kazooie?

Probably not, considering that Smash Ultimate K. Rool is primarily based on his Paon design. And of course, Microsoft owns the rights to Rare Ltd..

 

[Deleted member]

The grammar on this one BOTHERS me but yeah they're right.

The end result of most FE protagonists being sword wielders.

 

[Untouch]

4 out of 7 of the FE characters use the same base so that isn't all that surprising.

 

[Pyra]

I can see it.

The perfect remedy to not wanting to alienate old fans.

Your Impa idea is pretty good, tbh.

Funny how things change, just the day before yesterday, we would have balked at the notion of there being tons of Echoes. Now I'm okay with it, and okay with Echo Shadow.

Hah... feels good.

Onto the second part of your post-

I kinda always wanted a bunch of echos. I thought they were a cool concept and a lot of the stigma they get is because people desperately want the conversation to change their characters to be unique. Which, I can understand, for sure. But I feel like being able to pick your preferred "version" of the same character is great, especially now that it's being done intentionally instead of because of a time crunch.

 

[P.Kat]

When people say "[my character] survived the Assist Trophy massacre", they mean this massacre specifically, knowing there's probably going to be another

Yep, just gotta hope we can make it through the next direct, without losing anymore of our picks, which will be difficult. *AT Massacre Flashbacks* We've lost so many

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Had to improvise because didn't knew how to show how in a single day there were 2 fighters of the day, so I remove the "8" and wrote a "X2"
View attachment 156580

We probably won't get a single update next week since Japan is celebrating the Obon Festival all week.

 

[Zeox]

Alright so, if in the case there were 84 characters, that is not gonna be but this is all for fun, and, counting clones and counting pokemon trainer as 1 character (and mii's as one too), we have 69 characters right now... that would leave us with freaking 15 characters left, if they made all the directs like this one, with 3 echoes and 2 original characters, that will leave us with 3 more directs, 6 original characters and 9 echoes more.
That's a lot, I can't even think in 9 more echoes.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Updated my signature to better reflect my predictions, jumping on the 4 more unique and 4 more echo for a total of 16 newcomers. Way more than I originally predicted but this direct really threw me.

Since people are posting I'll post mine with some percentages.

Echoes

• Impa (85%)
• Isabelle (80%, but I could be wrong on echo)
• Shadow (75%)
• Dixie (70%, again could be wrong on echo. Dixie took the biggest hit for me after that direct, dropping from 85-90% unique )

Unique

• Bandanna Dee (85%)
• Incinearoar or Decideueye (80%)
• Skull Kid or Rhythm Heaven Rep (60ish... Not convinced and it's mostly conspiracy theory based lol)
• Geno or Rayman (50ish... I don't like predicting 3rd parties but these are the only I think are likely)

Anything else (like a Xenoblade rep) is either borderline 50% at this point or below and thus I don't really think they are likely. I think the 8 above are our remaining newcomers. Can't wait to get peoven wrong next direct lol (But to be fair I predicted almost every character in the last direct. Simon I only predicted because of leaks however, and I didn't even know who Richter was lol).

 

[zeldasmash]

With how Echoes were shown in the Direct, there are some that I think are extremely likely now:

1. Shadow - This is a no-brainer. Richter proved that 3rd parties can have more then 1 rep and Chrom proved you can have different moves while still being an Echo. Considering he's still not shown as an Assist Trophy and again, Richter and Chrom, it's almost a guarantee that he'll be in the game as playable.

2. Dixie - Basically the same reasons as Shadow.

3. Ken/Akuma/Evil Ryu - These guys can potentially be Ryu's Echo. Ken is the likeliest to be the one to make it, but Ultimate is emphasizing antagonists in their respective franchises so Akuma is still possible. Evil Ryu, mostly due to the Dark Samus/Dark Pit thing but I'd much rather prefer Ken or Akuma.

4. Big Boss - This is purely based off Simon and Richter. It'd basically be no different.

5. Black Shadow - This where Falcondorf can come back and no one would have a problem with it. You can literally make it Melee Falcondorf and it'd be fine.

 

[Roberto zampari]

About Simon and Richter Belmont, how many Castlevania characters have in the franchise?
We will have a lot of clones.

 

[KMDP]

The end result of most FE protagonists being sword wielders.

I'm telling you, we need Hector (and Charlotte) to come and save the day!

Interesting thing about Charlotte, she's notable in a meta sense because she's the first explicit female Barbarian (Berserker) character in Fire Emblem.

Sealed Sword had Echidna, but she was a Hero Class, while she focused on Axes, her Axe wielder roots were more implied.

Onto the second part of your post-

I kinda always wanted a bunch of echos. I thought they were a cool concept and a lot of the stigma they get is because people desperately want the conversation to change their characters to be unique. Which, I can understand, for sure. But I feel like being able to pick your preferred "version" of the same character is great, especially now that it's being done intentionally instead of because of a time crunch.

I actually agree, even accounting for my prior Shadow rage.

I had no problem with Clones or Dark Pit and Lucina, the only reason I disliked Shadow is because, before Chrom, I thought being a 1:1 clone of Sonic was unfitting from a personality stand point, but now that Echoes have been demonstrably proven to be able to have different attacks to their base (presumably, so long as the new attack already existed on someone else). I'm 100% on board with Shadow.

If I get Shadow and Tails, all the better.
----------------------------------
Now that the boards have calmed down some, I think it's safe to post Bingo Results.

Dangit I got so close.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

We probably won't get a single update next week since Japan is celebrating the Obon Festival all week.

Speaking of the website, the Japanese and Korean sides somehow don't have the update for K. Rool, let alone a Memories entry. I have no idea what the staffers are even doing at this point.

Onto the second part of your post-

I kinda always wanted a bunch of echos. I thought they were a cool concept and a lot of the stigma they get is because people desperately want the conversation to change their characters to be unique. Which, I can understand, for sure. But I feel like being able to pick your preferred "version" of the same character is great, especially now that it's being done intentionally instead of because of a time crunch.

Now that Third-party echoes are possible, getting Blaze in is a bit likelier than before, so I'd be okay with her being an Echo of Sonic with some Zelda attacks repurposed for her fire abilities.

 

[drag0nscythe]

With how Echoes were shown in the Direct, there are some that I think are extremely likely now:

1. Shadow - This is a no-brainer. Richter proved that 3rd parties can have more then 1 rep and Chrom proved you can have different moves while still being an Echo. Considering he's still not shown as an Assist Trophy and again, Richter and Chrom, it's almost a guarantee that he'll be in the game as playable.

2. Dixie - Basically the same reasons as Shadow.

3. Ken/Akuma/Evil Ryu - These guys can potentially be Ryu's Echo. Ken is the likeliest to be the one to make it, but Ultimate is emphasizing antagonists in their respective franchises so Akuma is still possible. Evil Ryu, mostly due to the Dark Samus/Dark Pit thing but I'd much rather prefer Ken or Akuma.

4. Big Boss - This is purely based off Simon and Richter. It's basically be no different.

The notion of antagonists is a misnomer. It is marketing. It just happened that the the most popular wanted characters were villains. Fell into place.

Ryu will have ken.

 

[osby]

I'm telling you, we need Hector (and Charlotte) to come and save the day!

Interesting thing about Charlotte, she's notable in a meta sense because she's the first explicit female Barbarian (Berserker) character in Fire Emblem.

Sealed Sword had Echidna, but she was a Hero Class, while she focused on Axes, her Axe wielder roots were more implied.

I actually agree, even accounting for my prior Shadow rage.

I had no problem with Clones or Dark Pit and Lucina, the only reason I disliked Shadow is because, before Chrom, I thought being a 1:1 clone of Sonic was unfitting from a personality stand point, but now that Echoes have been demonstrably proven to be able to have different attacks to their base (presumably, so long as the new attack already existed on someone else). I'm 100% on board with Shadow.

If I get Shadow and Tails, all the better.
----------------------------------
Now that the boards have calmed down some, I think it's safe to post Bingo Results.
View attachment 156596
Dangit I got so close.

Dark Samus was an assist trophy in last game and now playable.
Or was "psyche" situation for tinfoil hat Waluigi theories becoming true?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yep just gotta hope we can make it through the next direct without losing anymore of picks which will be difficult. *AT Massacre Flashbacks* We've lost so many.

To be fair, some of the Assist Trophies likely wouldn't do any better than that. And when you look at Ashley's fate, you do have to wonder what will happen to Isabelle and Skull Kid.

The main reason why Dark Samus got the playable promotion is due to it strongly resembling Samus, along with the fact that its debut title is named Metroid Prime 2: Echoes.

Lastly, I would find it very criminal if Shadow got the playable treatment, while Tails does not.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

The notion of antagonists is a misnomer. It is marketing. It just happened that the the most popular wanted characters were villains. Fell into place.

Ryu will have ken.

Still bet Ken will be annouced with Incineroar

 

[KMDP]

Dark Samus was an assist trophy in last game and now playable.
Or was "psyche" situation for tinfoil hat Waluigi theories becoming true?

"PSYCHE!" was about the Waluigi tinfoil hat thing.

If Isabelle had shown up in any capacity at all, I'd have won.

 

[Darkraid]

My official roster prediction:

Echoes- Isabell, Dixie Kong, Ken, Shadow

Unique- Skull Kid, Elma, Gen 7 pokemon, Geno

Total of 8 unique newcomers and 8 echoes. Since Sakurai doesn't seem to count echoes I think that qualifies as not "too many".

I'm thinking Decidueye, Rex, Geno, Skull kid with Impa, Shadow, Dixie, Isabelle

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The main reason why Dark Samus got the playable promotion is due to it strongly resembling Samus, along with the fact that its debut title is named Metroid Prime 2: Echoes.

My gods, it was right under our noses this whole time! I shoulda known.

 

[osby]

To be fair, some of the Assist Trophies likely wouldn't do any better than that. And when you look at Ashley's fate, you do have to wonder what will happen to Isabelle and Skull Kid.

The main reason why Dark Samus got the playable promotion is due to it strongly resembling Samus, along with the fact that its debut title is named Metroid Prime 2: Echoes.

Lastly, I would find it very criminal if Shadow got the playable treatment, while Tails does not.

Echoes aren't called like that in Japanese.

Also why, it's like Daisy and Waluigi, putting Shadow in wouldn't prevent Tails from being playable.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Also why, it's like Daisy and Waluigi, putting Shadow in wouldn't prevent Tails from being playable.

Maybe not, but I would think that Tails has higher priority, since he's been around much longer than Shadow.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Speaking of the website, the Japanese and Korean sides somehow don't have the update for K. Rool, let alone a Memories entry. I have no idea what the staffers are even doing at this point.



Now that Third-party echoes are possible, getting Blaze in is a bit likelier than before, so I'd be okay with her being an Echo of Sonic with some Zelda attacks repurposed for her fire abilities.

Calling it now: King K. Rool is meant to be tomorrow's update but the English site jumped the gun. It also happened with Pit on the Italian site.

 

[Pyra]

To be fair, some of the Assist Trophies likely wouldn't do any better than that. And when you look at Ashley's fate, you do have to wonder what will happen to Isabelle and Skull Kid.

The main reason why Dark Samus got the playable promotion is due to it strongly resembling Samus, along with the fact that its debut title is named Metroid Prime 2: Echoes.

Lastly, I would find it very criminal if Shadow got the playable treatment, while Tails does not.

Echoes aren't called like that in Japanese.

Also why, it's like Daisy and Waluigi, putting Shadow in wouldn't prevent Tails from being playable.

Yeah, if I remember correctly, echos in Japanese are marked with ' and are called "Dash fighters"
So, unless the Japanese name of that game is "Metroid Prime 2: Dashes", I don't think that's right

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The end result of most FE protagonists being sword wielders.

Pretty much. And given that Chrom got in because of fan demand, I don't really care about another sword-user. If anything, this shows shows how poorly the weapon balance always has been in the FE franchise if almost all the main characters are sword-users. Blame Intelligent System, not Smash.

 

[KMDP]

Echoes aren't called like that in Japanese.

Also why, it's like Daisy and Waluigi, putting Shadow in wouldn't prevent Tails from being playable.

Specifically, Echo Fighters (#ε) are called "Dash Fighters" (#') in the Japanese version.

... 'd by Pyra . Eh, I'll post it anyway.
---
Here's a thought.

The next Direct will probably be a generic Nintendo Direct, covering online and upcoming holiday releases.

We'll probably only get one trailer that time.

My prediction, we get a trailer for Tails, which will end with Shadow showing up, like how Palutena's trailer had Dark Pit.

...*hides avatar*

 

[osby]

Maybe not, but I would think that Tails has higher priority, since he's been around much longer than Shadow.

Sure, but age doesn't matter much if development team don't want to make a guest fighter's companion unique.

 

[SvartWolf]

ok.. soseriously noone is talking about the new Donkey kong alt? the one with the boxing gloves and the boxing shorts?

 

[Zeox]

ok.. soseriously noone is talking about the new Donkey kong alt? the one with the boxing gloves and the boxing shorts?

wait what

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

ok.. soseriously noone is talking about the new Donkey kong alt? the one with the boxing gloves and the boxing shorts?

I seriously love that they referenced his Punch-Out appearance in the new trailer.

 

[osby]

ok.. soseriously noone is talking about the new Donkey kong alt? the one with the boxing gloves and the boxing shorts?

No, because they couldn't announce it more unceremoniously.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sure, but age doesn't matter much if development team don't want to make a guest fighter's companion unique.

Tails already has something that separates him from Sonic. It's not much, but he can use his two tails to temporarily fly, and attack.