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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Koopaul

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Also when is the next time we'll see a character? Math is useless when it comes to such a small sample size of 3 Directs. We know this isn't the last Smash Direct but I think we're gonna get one every month.

We only have 3 months and it's safe to assume there won't be a Direct in December.
So here's what I think. Sometime in Spetember or October, we'll get a regular Nintendo Direct that will talk about a variety of new games, and at the end they will show a newcomer related to a game they talk about in the Direct. Just like they did with Inklings in the Direct before E3. Like hypothetically, they'll reveal an HD Super Mario RPG for the Switch and then it will be followed by the Geno Smash trailer.

Then in late November or early December before the game's release there will be one last Smash Direct that will go into details about the brand new mode... And ofcourse show off a bunch of new echos and two newcomer (opening with one and closing with another).
 
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Will

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I'm gonna go further in detail on what I think differences are between Echoes.

:ultroy:/Chrom - Chrom's Falchion is balanced and does damage equal throughout rather than being stronger at the base.

:ultsamus:/Dark Samus - Dark Samus seems to have faster projectiles at the cost of a little less damage (or in the Phazon Shot case, size).

Simon/Richter - I believe one of the two will have a tipper gimmick with the mace at the end of the chain, making chain hits weaker but mace hits more fatal. The other will just have a Lucina/Chrom effect put in place.

You guys got any ideas? :roll:
 

MoonlitIllusion

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I'm gonna go further in detail on what I think differences are between Echoes.

:ultroy:/Chrom - Chrom's Falchion is balanced and does damage equal throughout rather than being stronger at the base.

:ultsamus:/Dark Samus - Dark Samus seems to have faster projectiles at the cost of a little less damage (or in the Phazon Shot case, size).

Simon/Richter - I believe one of the two will have a tipper gimmick with the mace at the end of the chain, making chain hits weaker but mace hits more fatal. The other will just have a Lucina/Chrom effect put in place.

You guys got any ideas? :roll:
But sakurai mentioned richter playing the same, if he had a tipper mechanic they probably would've mentioned it
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I'm gonna go further in detail on what I think differences are between Echoes.

:ultroy:/Chrom - Chrom's Falchion is balanced and does damage equal throughout rather than being stronger at the base.

:ultsamus:/Dark Samus - Dark Samus seems to have faster projectiles at the cost of a little less damage (or in the Phazon Shot case, size).

Simon/Richter - I believe one of the two will have a tipper gimmick with the mace at the end of the chain, making chain hits weaker but mace hits more fatal. The other will just have a Lucina/Chrom effect put in place.

You guys got any ideas? :roll:
Has Richter been shown to be able to hit with his whip in 8 directions? Because in game (Castlevania) that's something Simon can do that Richter can't. Neither his trailer on the site or his pics show him whipping at angles.
 
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Idon

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I'm gonna go further in detail on what I think differences are between Echoes.

:ultroy:/Chrom - Chrom's Falchion is balanced and does damage equal throughout rather than being stronger at the base.

:ultsamus:/Dark Samus - Dark Samus seems to have faster projectiles at the cost of a little less damage (or in the Phazon Shot case, size).

Simon/Richter - I believe one of the two will have a tipper gimmick with the mace at the end of the chain, making chain hits weaker but mace hits more fatal. The other will just have a Lucina/Chrom effect put in place.

You guys got any ideas? :roll:
The blue flame does 1% less damage but the uppercut does 1% more.

And with that, Richter is now certified echo.
 

Will

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But sakurai mentioned richter playing the same, if he had a tipper mechanic they probably would've mentioned it
Define "the same". Are we talking about Mario and Dr. Mario same, Marth and Lucina same, or Olimar and Alph same?
 

MSmariosonic

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The 103 stages part is really bugging me...

Surely we will get a new pokemon stage based on sun and moon?

I always thought that was a givin.
 

Shroob

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Someone on Reddit brought up something interesting.

....why are there two Mario Shrooms?


One would assume that it's due to there just 'being a lot of Mario songs in Smash, but......
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Someone on Reddit brought up something interesting.

....why are there two Mario Shrooms?


One would assume that it's due to there just 'being a lot of Mario songs in Smash, but......
Apparently one is "Mario Kart" and the other is Mario RPG's, spinoffs, and main series
 

MargnetMan23

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Sakurai said their "strength" is the same, which is vague enough that it leaves some room for non-cosmetic differences. I think Belmont and Richter are probably going to be more same-y than say, Roy and Chrom in that regard though.
 
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Curious Villager

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The 103 stages part is really bugging me...

Surely we will get a new pokemon stage based on sun and moon?

I always thought that was a givin.
Did anyone check the Japanese version in case this is yet another mistranslation? Like if he said, there are 103 stages as of now or something?
 

Staarih

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Someone on Reddit brought up something interesting.

....why are there two Mario Shrooms?


One would assume that it's due to there just 'being a lot of Mario songs in Smash, but......
Yeah, I noticed this as well when watching the Direct. Could it be a division of mainline/spin-off? Mario games collectively will likely have tons of music.
 

Noipoi

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I decided to make a roster of the remaining newcomers I think will be in Ultimate. But instead of using a template, I drew it!
Smash Ultimate roster prediction.png

I'm not saying these characters will be the in the game no matter what, nor am i saying we only have seven characters left, these are just my predictions.

From best chances to least best chances, imo.
Geno- This is the game where dreams come true. I was iffy on him at first but I fully believe Geno will be in now.
Incineroar- Every Smash game has had a new Pokemon and I believe Ultimate will follow the trend. If certain rumors are to be believed Incineroar's competition has been eliminated, but I don't trust leaks. I think it has some of the better chances among Gen 7 Pokemon anyway. It's been promoted in the anime and it's personality and fighting style would be unique as well.
Isabelle- An extremely popular character, Isabelle could work as an echo or an original fighter. But I think she'd be an echo because it would be easier to program, honestly.
Bandanna Dee- He would complete the Kirby quartet, and he's very popular in Japan. He placed very high on the ballot, too.
Elma- I don't know much about Xenoblade, but I do think it'll get another Newcomer and Rex and Pyra were late to the party. Supposedly Sakurai's a fan.
Shadow- A rather easy echo to implement, just change some of Sonic's moves and animations and your done. You'd please some Sonic fans in the process.
Chorus Kids- They were apparently planned for Smash 4 along with Chrom. Chrom's in the game now. I could see it happening, but I also could see it not happening.
 
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D

Deleted member 269706

Guest
The 103 stages part is really bugging me...

Surely we will get a new pokemon stage based on sun and moon?

I always thought that was a givin.
I'm next to positive Sakurai isn't making a Smash Bros and only introducing 4 new stages.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
>catches up with thread
>Goku talk
>reason: he's listed in IMDB
kek.jpg

Will people ever learn?
 

Shroob

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I decided to make a roster of the remaining newcomers I think will be in Ultimate. But instead of using a template, I drew it!
View attachment 156539
I'm not saying these characters will be the in the game no matter what, nor am i saying we only have seven characters left, these are just my predictions.

From best chances to least best chances, imo.
Geno- This is the game where dreams come true. I was iffy on him at first but I fully believe Geno will be in now.
Incineroar- Every Smash game has had a new Pokemon and I believe Ultimate will follow the trend. If certain rumors are to be believed Incineroar's competition has been eliminated, but I don't trust leaks. I think it has some of the better chances among Gen 7 Pokemon anyway. It's been promoted in the anime and it's personality and fighting style would be unique as well.
Isabelle- An extremely popular character, Isabelle could work as an echo or an original fighter. But I think she'd be an echo because it would be easier to program, honestly.
Bandanna Dee- He would complete the Kirby quartet, and he's very popular in Japan. He placed very high on the ballot, too.
Elma- I don't know much about Xenoblade, but I do think it'll get another Newcomer and Rex and Pyra were late to the party. Supposedly Sakurai's a fan.
Shadow- A rather easy echo to implement, just change some of Sonic's moves and animations and your done. You'd please some Sonic fans in the process.
Chorus Kids- They were apparently planned for Smash 4 along with Chrom. Chrom's in the game now. I could see it happening, but I also could see it not happening.
Oh god I love this artstyle hfs
 

DJDave189

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Best Smash Bros direct I've seen, Fountain of Dreams which is the one stage I really wanted to see return has finally returned, and King K. Rool who is the only character I really wanted to see become playable has finally become playable. Two things I really wanted to see were both shown in this one direct and I couldn't be anymore happier, at this point anything else will be a bonus for me.
 

epicgordan

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Considering that Sakurai just revealed the stage select screen with all 103 stages, and stated that every stage in the game is available right from the start, I'd say those 103 stages are most definitely it. And okay, so maybe there's a stage or two--maybe even three--stages that we kinda wished were added in. But again, I'm not complaining.

Of course, if this is the case, then we can pretty much disconfirm every single newcomer prospect coming from a potentially brand new franchise in the base roster. That means if Vergeben is to be believed, then four unique newcomers is the most to expect (because we already hit five newcomers this morning, and neither of them included Isabelle or Incineroar--meaning Echo Fighters do not count). And every newcomer henceforth--may they be unique or an echo--will have to come from a franchise already represented. This leaves us with an extremely limited window of possibilities coming from:

1. Mario: Off the top of my head, literally three different candidates in Paper Mario, Captain Toad, and Geno. And I'd wager it's Geno.
2. Donkey Kong: We just got King K. Rool. All that remains are Dixie Kong, Funky Kong (as an Echo), and Cranky Kong.
3. Legend of Zelda: The only likely candidates are Impa, Skull Kid, and...Tingle. And honestly, based off the Assist Trophies, I'd say Skull Kid has the best shot. Though Impa could still make it in as an Echo Fighter (since, you know, she taught Sheik everything she knows and all).
4. Metroid: We just got Ridley and Dark Samus. The only possible candidate remaining is Sylux, and I doubt he's making it in.
5. Yoshi: With the return of the Mario 3D World stage, I think Kamek is now officially disconfirmed. So really, nobody.
6. Kirby: Within reason, the only likely candidate to be added into Smash Brothers is Bandana Dee.
7. Star Fox: With Krystal as an Assist Trophy, that pretty much leaves us with Slippy Toad. Even if you like the idea now though, what are the odds...?
8. Pokémon: Countless. But mostly from Gen 7--with Mimikyu's disconfirmation, that just leaves us with Decidueye, Lycanroc, Incineroar, or maybe Necrozma as a representative. With Vergaben leaning more towards Incineroar.
9. Earthbound: Ninten as an Echo Fighter of Ness. Maybe Porky. Maybe Claus as an Echo of Lucas. But I doubt it.
10. F-Zero: Either we get Black Shadow as an Echo, or nothing. Since we haven't had a new F-Zero game in roughly 15 years, I'm not counting on it.
11. Ice Climbers: Come, now. From this moment forward, any single character retro franchise is going to be given no comment.
12. Fire Emblem: We just got Chrom as an Echo. Who was the recent Fire Emblem lord again? If not him, or Celicia, then we'd likely will have to wait until DLC.
13. Game & Watch
14. Kid Icarus: We haven't had a new game in this series since the 3DS launch--and it's very hard to come by, btw. And based off that, we only really have Medusa or Hades left to look over.
15. Wario: Ashley is still an Assist Trophy. Sorry, guys. Honestly, I don't even know who else could join.
16. Metal Gear: Konami has already overtaken all other 3rd Party reps with 3 at this point. Be as it may, Raiden is the only possible choice at this point.
17. Sonic: Shadow as an Echo Fighter. Or Tails as a unique fighter. Leaning more towards Shadow as an Echo Fighter.
18. Pikmin: I know there are other options. But considering that Alph is still just an alt for Olimar, what can you honestly do with said characters?
19. R.O.B.
20. Animal Crossing: Isabelle as either an Echo or a joke fighter (maybe her main differences are lack of tools, and ability to heal damage to herself and others). The only other candidate is K.K. Slider as a unique fighter. If Vergeben is to be believed, then we're getting Isabelle.
21. Mega Man: All the good choices are now pretty much taken. So nothing.
22. Wii Fit: Literally nothing.
23. Punch-Out: Little Mac has several adversaries to choose from--mostly recurring. None are likely. Though I wouldn't mind seeing Mike Tyson as our newest representative--even though he's technically 4th party.
24. Mii Fighters: We didn't get any new Mii Fighters added in, so we aren't getting anybody. Hope our choices in customization are good.
25. Pac-Man: Literally the only other character that could work is Ms. Pac-Man as an Echo Fighter (shouldn't that be Mrs.?). But how would you differentiate her from Pac-Man?
26. Xenoblade: Maybe Elma. Possibly Rex. You never know with Sakurai. Though if I have to take a guess, it's probably going to be Rex.
27. Duck Hunt
28. Street Fighter: It's pretty much just Ken as an Echo of Ryu (even though they were designed to be exactly the same originally), or Chun-Li as a unique newcomer. Personally, I'd lean more towards Ken.
29. Final Fantasy: This one is kind of interesting. One can either stick with Final Fantasy VII as a source; pick up the main characters of other Final Fantasy games (most likely Noctis in that lineup); or settle for an Echo Fighter with Zack. I'd lean more towards Zack as the likely choice.
30. Bayonetta: Really, with Rodin as an Assist Trophy, and Jeannine's color scheme literally being reused as a Bayonetta alt, I'd say nobody.
31. Splatoon: Even though the Octolings are the only other possible candidate to add into Smash (albeit as an Echo), how would you differentiate them from the Inklings?
32. Castlevania: I think we've got everybody out of that franchise. And I mean pretty much everybody.

So really, we have 32 franchises to choose from to figure out who our remaining fighters are going to be. Of those 32, Yoshi, Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, Wario, R.O.B., Wii Fit, Mii Fighters, and Duck Hunt are the only franchises that have literally no other candidates left to offer, leaving us with 24. Let's also assume that the following franchises' chances are so miniscule at this point they might as well be dead or at least all but completely exhausted or irrelevant (for now): Metroid, Star Fox, Earthbound, F-Zero, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, Metal Gear, Pikmin, Mega Man, Punch-Out, Pac-Man, Bayonetta, and Castlevania.

Even if you believe any of these 13 franchises could still get more newcomers (and really, they're not completely out of options), they seem so bloody remote at this point that it's kind of pointless to talk about them lest we get really spoiled (besides, I already singled out Fire Emblem as getting a newcomer via DLC; and we got two Metroid newcomers, so let's not spoil ourselves here). Honestly, Fire Elmbelm and Kid Icarus probably have the best shots of either of these franchises at getting newcomers since they are all at least rich with history to explore.

But in all fairness, that pretty much leaves us with 11 franchises represented (out of 32) that have a probable shot at newcomers. In fact, a very good shot. Even if they may not be able to provide us with a unique fighter that people have wanted, at least we may be able to get an Echo Fighter. And in fact, of those 11, Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Pokémon, Sonic, Final Fantasy, and to a lesser extent, Street Fighter probably have the richest pools of unique fighters to draw from. And while Kirby, Animal Crossing, Xenoblade, and Splatoon don't have a whole lot of potential fighters, still have that one or two strong candidates to draw from.

As such, the most likely candidates to be joining the battle are going to come from the following pool: Captain Toad, Geno, Paper Mario, Funky Kong, Dixie Kong, Cranky Kong, Impa, Skull Kid, Tingle, Bandana Dee, Incineroar, Decidueye, Lycanroc, Necrozma (heck, any Gen 7 Pokémon not yet disconfirmed, as well as any Pokémon that received a ton of votes in the Ballot), Isabelle, K.K. Slider, Elma, Rex, Octolings, Shadow, Tails, Ken, Chung-Li, Zack, any major FFVII character, or any Final Fantasy protagonist.

Now for the 3rd Party reps, let's just reduce our potential candidates to just one Echo Fighter each (leaving us with Shadow, Ken, and Zack to look through), and with Pokémon, let's just put a pin on there. We are still left with 15 likely reps to sift through. And again, this is assuming just Echoes off of 3rd Party reps, and excluding the Pokémon reps since there are still so many. But of the likely Pokémon reps, that still leaves us with 19--almost 20 characters--to choose from.

So, who do I honestly think are the best bets at getting in? Well, right off the bat, I think it's going to go to Geno, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, and Incineroar. And keep in mind; I'm only sticking with the unique fighters. I think everybody else will either have outside chances, or will be relegated to Echo Fighter status (and no, I doubt Paper Mario will be an Echo Fighter--unless the idea is to base his moveset entirely around classic N64 Mario).

Add to that the fact that Geno, Skull Kid, and Bandana Dee all have massive fan support from the beginning, are all from established Nintendo franchises (granted, one of them is owned by a 3rd party company), and are very much still standing, with Skull Kid currently standing as the likeliest to get confirmed (thanks to that Moon Assist Trophy). Incineroar is the only one I cannot point towards the ballot for obvious reasons of being too recent; he's pretty much just in because of Vergeben's leak.

Speaking of which, Isabelle, and any other potential fan favorites would all get in as Echo Fighters (specifically Impa as an Echo of Sheik; Dixie for Diddy; and Shadow for Sonic).

The next likely candidates in place of characters like, say, Bandana Dee, would have to be either Elma or Rex (but not both); while the Octolings would have to be either an Alt to the Inklings, or an Echo Fighter. Though they are just outside. The reason I say this? Honestly, similar to Pikmin, I have no idea how one could differentiate the Octolings from the Inklings. And I think if either Elma or Rex were going to get in, you'd think we'd get a brand new Xenoblade stage that might hint at this. But we are not.

The only possible exception--a brand new franchise representative in spite the lack of a new stage--might actually be the Monster Hunter due to that boss monster/Assist Trophy in the Direct. But even then, this doesn't look like a selectable stage so much as it is a boss battle for a new Adventure/Subspace-like mode. In fact, in the Direct, it is shown to only ever feature one fighter fighting him at a time as a boss. And the Monster Hunter stage doesn't even appear in the Stage Select Screen.

But I do leave it out as a possibility that the Monster Hunter might potentially be a new playable character from a newly represented franchise. But outside from that, it's pretty much limited to just the main 32 represented franchises, specifically (and most likely) from 11 pf them.

Boy, I said a lot. Hopefully, I don't get in trouble for this. Just let me know if I did something wrong so I may correct it, mod. At the very least, I doubt I used any swear words.
 

Zinith

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Considering that Sakurai just revealed the stage select screen with all 103 stages, and stated that every stage in the game is available right from the start, I'd say those 103 stages are most definitely it. And okay, so maybe there's a stage or two--maybe even three--stages that we kinda wished were added in. But again, I'm not complaining.

Of course, if this is the case, then we can pretty much disconfirm every single newcomer prospect coming from a potentially brand new franchise in the base roster. That means if Vergeben is to be believed, then four unique newcomers is the most to expect (because we already hit five newcomers this morning, and neither of them included Isabelle or Incineroar--meaning Echo Fighters do not count). And every newcomer henceforth--may they be unique or an echo--will have to come from a franchise already represented. This leaves us with an extremely limited window of possibilities coming from:

1. Mario: Off the top of my head, literally three different candidates in Paper Mario, Captain Toad, and Geno. And I'd wager it's Geno.
2. Donkey Kong: We just got King K. Rool. All that remains are Dixie Kong, Funky Kong (as an Echo), and Cranky Kong.
3. Legend of Zelda: The only likely candidates are Impa, Skull Kid, and...Tingle. And honestly, based off the Assist Trophies, I'd say Skull Kid has the best shot. Though Impa could still make it in as an Echo Fighter (since, you know, she taught Sheik everything she knows and all).
4. Metroid: We just got Ridley and Dark Samus. The only possible candidate remaining is Sylux, and I doubt he's making it in.
5. Yoshi: With the return of the Mario 3D World stage, I think Kamek is now officially disconfirmed. So really, nobody.
6. Kirby: Within reason, the only likely candidate to be added into Smash Brothers is Bandana Dee.
7. Star Fox: With Krystal as an Assist Trophy, that pretty much leaves us with Slippy Toad. Even if you like the idea now though, what are the odds...?
8. Pokémon: Countless. But mostly from Gen 7--with Mimikyu's disconfirmation, that just leaves us with Decidueye, Lycanroc, Incineroar, or maybe Necrozma as a representative. With Vergaben leaning more towards Incineroar.
9. Earthbound: Ninten as an Echo Fighter of Ness. Maybe Porky. Maybe Claus as an Echo of Lucas. But I doubt it.
10. F-Zero: Either we get Black Shadow as an Echo, or nothing. Since we haven't had a new F-Zero game in roughly 15 years, I'm not counting on it.
11. Ice Climbers: Come, now. From this moment forward, any single character retro franchise is going to be given no comment.
12. Fire Emblem: We just got Chrom as an Echo. Who was the recent Fire Emblem lord again? If not him, or Celicia, then we'd likely will have to wait until DLC.
13. Game & Watch
14. Kid Icarus: We haven't had a new game in this series since the 3DS launch--and it's very hard to come by, btw. And based off that, we only really have Medusa or Hades left to look over.
15. Wario: Ashley is still an Assist Trophy. Sorry, guys. Honestly, I don't even know who else could join.
16. Metal Gear: Konami has already overtaken all other 3rd Party reps with 3 at this point. Be as it may, Raiden is the only possible choice at this point.
17. Sonic: Shadow as an Echo Fighter. Or Tails as a unique fighter. Leaning more towards Shadow as an Echo Fighter.
18. Pikmin: I know there are other options. But considering that Alph is still just an alt for Olimar, what can you honestly do with said characters?
19. R.O.B.
20. Animal Crossing: Isabelle as either an Echo or a joke fighter (maybe her main differences are lack of tools, and ability to heal damage to herself and others). The only other candidate is K.K. Slider as a unique fighter. If Vergeben is to be believed, then we're getting Isabelle.
21. Mega Man: All the good choices are now pretty much taken. So nothing.
22. Wii Fit: Literally nothing.
23. Punch-Out: Little Mac has several adversaries to choose from--mostly recurring. None are likely. Though I wouldn't mind seeing Mike Tyson as our newest representative--even though he's technically 4th party.
24. Mii Fighters: We didn't get any new Mii Fighters added in, so we aren't getting anybody. Hope our choices in customization are good.
25. Pac-Man: Literally the only other character that could work is Ms. Pac-Man as an Echo Fighter (shouldn't that be Mrs.?). But how would you differentiate her from Pac-Man?
26. Xenoblade: Maybe Elma. Possibly Rex. You never know with Sakurai. Though if I have to take a guess, it's probably going to be Rex.
27. Duck Hunt
28. Street Fighter: It's pretty much just Ken as an Echo of Ryu (even though they were designed to be exactly the same originally), or Chun-Li as a unique newcomer. Personally, I'd lean more towards Ken.
29. Final Fantasy: This one is kind of interesting. One can either stick with Final Fantasy VII as a source; pick up the main characters of other Final Fantasy games (most likely Noctis in that lineup); or settle for an Echo Fighter with Zack. I'd lean more towards Zack as the likely choice.
30. Bayonetta: Really, with Rodin as an Assist Trophy, and Jeannine's color scheme literally being reused as a Bayonetta alt, I'd say nobody.
31. Splatoon: Even though the Octolings are the only other possible candidate to add into Smash (albeit as an Echo), how would you differentiate them from the Inklings?
32. Castlevania: I think we've got everybody out of that franchise. And I mean pretty much everybody.

So really, we have 32 franchises to choose from to figure out who our remaining fighters are going to be. Of those 32, Yoshi, Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, Wario, R.O.B., Wii Fit, Mii Fighters, and Duck Hunt are the only franchises that have literally no other candidates left to offer, leaving us with 24. Let's also assume that the following franchises' chances are so miniscule at this point they might as well be dead or at least all but completely exhausted or irrelevant (for now): Metroid, Star Fox, Earthbound, F-Zero, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, Metal Gear, Pikmin, Mega Man, Punch-Out, Pac-Man, Bayonetta, and Castlevania.

Even if you believe any of these 13 franchises could still get more newcomers (and really, they're not completely out of options), they seem so bloody remote at this point that it's kind of pointless to talk about them lest we get really spoiled (besides, I already singled out Fire Emblem as getting a newcomer via DLC; and we got two Metroid newcomers, so let's not spoil ourselves here). Honestly, Fire Elmbelm and Kid Icarus probably have the best shots of either of these franchises at getting newcomers since they are all at least rich with history to explore.

But in all fairness, that pretty much leaves us with 11 franchises represented (out of 32) that have a probable shot at newcomers. In fact, a very good shot. Even if they may not be able to provide us with a unique fighter that people have wanted, at least we may be able to get an Echo Fighter. And in fact, of those 11, Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Pokémon, Sonic, Final Fantasy, and to a lesser extent, Street Fighter probably have the richest pools of unique fighters to draw from. And while Kirby, Animal Crossing, Xenoblade, and Splatoon don't have a whole lot of potential fighters, still have that one or two strong candidates to draw from.

As such, the most likely candidates to be joining the battle are going to come from the following pool: Captain Toad, Geno, Paper Mario, Funky Kong, Dixie Kong, Cranky Kong, Impa, Skull Kid, Tingle, Bandana Dee, Incineroar, Decidueye, Lycanroc, Necrozma (heck, any Gen 7 Pokémon not yet disconfirmed, as well as any Pokémon that received a ton of votes in the Ballot), Isabelle, K.K. Slider, Elma, Rex, Octolings, Shadow, Tails, Ken, Chung-Li, Zack, any major FFVII character, or any Final Fantasy protagonist.

Now for the 3rd Party reps, let's just reduce our potential candidates to just one Echo Fighter each (leaving us with Shadow, Ken, and Zack to look through), and with Pokémon, let's just put a pin on there. We are still left with 15 likely reps to sift through. And again, this is assuming just Echoes off of 3rd Party reps, and excluding the Pokémon reps since there are still so many. But of the likely Pokémon reps, that still leaves us with 19--almost 20 characters--to choose from.

So, who do I honestly think are the best bets at getting in? Well, right off the bat, I think it's going to go to Geno, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, and Incineroar. And keep in mind; I'm only sticking with the unique fighters. I think everybody else will either have outside chances, or will be relegated to Echo Fighter status (and no, I doubt Paper Mario will be an Echo Fighter--unless the idea is to base his moveset entirely around classic N64 Mario).

Add to that the fact that Geno, Skull Kid, and Bandana Dee all have massive fan support from the beginning, are all from established Nintendo franchises (granted, one of them is owned by a 3rd party company), and are very much still standing, with Skull Kid currently standing as the likeliest to get confirmed (thanks to that Moon Assist Trophy). Incineroar is the only one I cannot point towards the ballot for obvious reasons of being too recent; he's pretty much just in because of Vergeben's leak.

Speaking of which, Isabelle, and any other potential fan favorites would all get in as Echo Fighters (specifically Impa as an Echo of Sheik; Dixie for Diddy; and Shadow for Sonic).

The next likely candidates in place of characters like, say, Bandana Dee, would have to be either Elma or Rex (but not both); while the Octolings would have to be either an Alt to the Inklings, or an Echo Fighter. Though they are just outside. The reason I say this? Honestly, similar to Pikmin, I have no idea how one could differentiate the Octolings from the Inklings. And I think if either Elma or Rex were going to get in, you'd think we'd get a brand new Xenoblade stage that might hint at this. But we are not.

The only possible exception--a brand new franchise representative in spite the lack of a new stage--might actually be the Monster Hunter due to that boss monster/Assist Trophy in the Direct. But even then, this doesn't look like a selectable stage so much as it is a boss battle for a new Adventure/Subspace-like mode. In fact, in the Direct, it is shown to only ever feature one fighter fighting him at a time as a boss. And the Monster Hunter stage doesn't even appear in the Stage Select Screen.

But I do leave it out as a possibility that the Monster Hunter might potentially be a new playable character from a newly represented franchise. But outside from that, it's pretty much limited to just the main 32 represented franchises, specifically (and most likely) from 11 pf them.

Boy, I said a lot. Hopefully, I don't get in trouble for this. Just let me know if I did something wrong so I may correct it, mod. At the very least, I doubt I used any swear words.
God it'd be a shame to have the Heroes vs. Villains theme for the OG 8 and leave Yoshi out once again...
 

Shroob

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Considering that Sakurai just revealed the stage select screen with all 103 stages, and stated that every stage in the game is available right from the start, I'd say those 103 stages are most definitely it. And okay, so maybe there's a stage or two--maybe even three--stages that we kinda wished were added in. But again, I'm not complaining.

Of course, if this is the case, then we can pretty much disconfirm every single newcomer prospect coming from a potentially brand new franchise in the base roster. That means if Vergeben is to be believed, then four unique newcomers is the most to expect (because we already hit five newcomers this morning, and neither of them included Isabelle or Incineroar--meaning Echo Fighters do not count). And every newcomer henceforth--may they be unique or an echo--will have to come from a franchise already represented. This leaves us with an extremely limited window of possibilities coming from:

1. Mario: Off the top of my head, literally three different candidates in Paper Mario, Captain Toad, and Geno. And I'd wager it's Geno.
2. Donkey Kong: We just got King K. Rool. All that remains are Dixie Kong, Funky Kong (as an Echo), and Cranky Kong.
3. Legend of Zelda: The only likely candidates are Impa, Skull Kid, and...Tingle. And honestly, based off the Assist Trophies, I'd say Skull Kid has the best shot. Though Impa could still make it in as an Echo Fighter (since, you know, she taught Sheik everything she knows and all).
4. Metroid: We just got Ridley and Dark Samus. The only possible candidate remaining is Sylux, and I doubt he's making it in.
5. Yoshi: With the return of the Mario 3D World stage, I think Kamek is now officially disconfirmed. So really, nobody.
6. Kirby: Within reason, the only likely candidate to be added into Smash Brothers is Bandana Dee.
7. Star Fox: With Krystal as an Assist Trophy, that pretty much leaves us with Slippy Toad. Even if you like the idea now though, what are the odds...?
8. Pokémon: Countless. But mostly from Gen 7--with Mimikyu's disconfirmation, that just leaves us with Decidueye, Lycanroc, Incineroar, or maybe Necrozma as a representative. With Vergaben leaning more towards Incineroar.
9. Earthbound: Ninten as an Echo Fighter of Ness. Maybe Porky. Maybe Claus as an Echo of Lucas. But I doubt it.
10. F-Zero: Either we get Black Shadow as an Echo, or nothing. Since we haven't had a new F-Zero game in roughly 15 years, I'm not counting on it.
11. Ice Climbers: Come, now. From this moment forward, any single character retro franchise is going to be given no comment.
12. Fire Emblem: We just got Chrom as an Echo. Who was the recent Fire Emblem lord again? If not him, or Celicia, then we'd likely will have to wait until DLC.
13. Game & Watch
14. Kid Icarus: We haven't had a new game in this series since the 3DS launch--and it's very hard to come by, btw. And based off that, we only really have Medusa or Hades left to look over.
15. Wario: Ashley is still an Assist Trophy. Sorry, guys. Honestly, I don't even know who else could join.
16. Metal Gear: Konami has already overtaken all other 3rd Party reps with 3 at this point. Be as it may, Raiden is the only possible choice at this point.
17. Sonic: Shadow as an Echo Fighter. Or Tails as a unique fighter. Leaning more towards Shadow as an Echo Fighter.
18. Pikmin: I know there are other options. But considering that Alph is still just an alt for Olimar, what can you honestly do with said characters?
19. R.O.B.
20. Animal Crossing: Isabelle as either an Echo or a joke fighter (maybe her main differences are lack of tools, and ability to heal damage to herself and others). The only other candidate is K.K. Slider as a unique fighter. If Vergeben is to be believed, then we're getting Isabelle.
21. Mega Man: All the good choices are now pretty much taken. So nothing.
22. Wii Fit: Literally nothing.
23. Punch-Out: Little Mac has several adversaries to choose from--mostly recurring. None are likely. Though I wouldn't mind seeing Mike Tyson as our newest representative--even though he's technically 4th party.
24. Mii Fighters: We didn't get any new Mii Fighters added in, so we aren't getting anybody. Hope our choices in customization are good.
25. Pac-Man: Literally the only other character that could work is Ms. Pac-Man as an Echo Fighter (shouldn't that be Mrs.?). But how would you differentiate her from Pac-Man?
26. Xenoblade: Maybe Elma. Possibly Rex. You never know with Sakurai. Though if I have to take a guess, it's probably going to be Rex.
27. Duck Hunt
28. Street Fighter: It's pretty much just Ken as an Echo of Ryu (even though they were designed to be exactly the same originally), or Chun-Li as a unique newcomer. Personally, I'd lean more towards Ken.
29. Final Fantasy: This one is kind of interesting. One can either stick with Final Fantasy VII as a source; pick up the main characters of other Final Fantasy games (most likely Noctis in that lineup); or settle for an Echo Fighter with Zack. I'd lean more towards Zack as the likely choice.
30. Bayonetta: Really, with Rodin as an Assist Trophy, and Jeannine's color scheme literally being reused as a Bayonetta alt, I'd say nobody.
31. Splatoon: Even though the Octolings are the only other possible candidate to add into Smash (albeit as an Echo), how would you differentiate them from the Inklings?
32. Castlevania: I think we've got everybody out of that franchise. And I mean pretty much everybody.

So really, we have 32 franchises to choose from to figure out who our remaining fighters are going to be. Of those 32, Yoshi, Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, Wario, R.O.B., Wii Fit, Mii Fighters, and Duck Hunt are the only franchises that have literally no other candidates left to offer, leaving us with 24. Let's also assume that the following franchises' chances are so miniscule at this point they might as well be dead or at least all but completely exhausted or irrelevant (for now): Metroid, Star Fox, Earthbound, F-Zero, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, Metal Gear, Pikmin, Mega Man, Punch-Out, Pac-Man, Bayonetta, and Castlevania.

Even if you believe any of these 13 franchises could still get more newcomers (and really, they're not completely out of options), they seem so bloody remote at this point that it's kind of pointless to talk about them lest we get really spoiled (besides, I already singled out Fire Emblem as getting a newcomer via DLC; and we got two Metroid newcomers, so let's not spoil ourselves here). Honestly, Fire Elmbelm and Kid Icarus probably have the best shots of either of these franchises at getting newcomers since they are all at least rich with history to explore.

But in all fairness, that pretty much leaves us with 11 franchises represented (out of 32) that have a probable shot at newcomers. In fact, a very good shot. Even if they may not be able to provide us with a unique fighter that people have wanted, at least we may be able to get an Echo Fighter. And in fact, of those 11, Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Pokémon, Sonic, Final Fantasy, and to a lesser extent, Street Fighter probably have the richest pools of unique fighters to draw from. And while Kirby, Animal Crossing, Xenoblade, and Splatoon don't have a whole lot of potential fighters, still have that one or two strong candidates to draw from.

As such, the most likely candidates to be joining the battle are going to come from the following pool: Captain Toad, Geno, Paper Mario, Funky Kong, Dixie Kong, Cranky Kong, Impa, Skull Kid, Tingle, Bandana Dee, Incineroar, Decidueye, Lycanroc, Necrozma (heck, any Gen 7 Pokémon not yet disconfirmed, as well as any Pokémon that received a ton of votes in the Ballot), Isabelle, K.K. Slider, Elma, Rex, Octolings, Shadow, Tails, Ken, Chung-Li, Zack, any major FFVII character, or any Final Fantasy protagonist.

Now for the 3rd Party reps, let's just reduce our potential candidates to just one Echo Fighter each (leaving us with Shadow, Ken, and Zack to look through), and with Pokémon, let's just put a pin on there. We are still left with 15 likely reps to sift through. And again, this is assuming just Echoes off of 3rd Party reps, and excluding the Pokémon reps since there are still so many. But of the likely Pokémon reps, that still leaves us with 19--almost 20 characters--to choose from.

So, who do I honestly think are the best bets at getting in? Well, right off the bat, I think it's going to go to Geno, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, and Incineroar. And keep in mind; I'm only sticking with the unique fighters. I think everybody else will either have outside chances, or will be relegated to Echo Fighter status (and no, I doubt Paper Mario will be an Echo Fighter--unless the idea is to base his moveset entirely around classic N64 Mario).

Add to that the fact that Geno, Skull Kid, and Bandana Dee all have massive fan support from the beginning, are all from established Nintendo franchises (granted, one of them is owned by a 3rd party company), and are very much still standing, with Skull Kid currently standing as the likeliest to get confirmed (thanks to that Moon Assist Trophy). Incineroar is the only one I cannot point towards the ballot for obvious reasons of being too recent; he's pretty much just in because of Vergeben's leak.

Speaking of which, Isabelle, and any other potential fan favorites would all get in as Echo Fighters (specifically Impa as an Echo of Sheik; Dixie for Diddy; and Shadow for Sonic).

The next likely candidates in place of characters like, say, Bandana Dee, would have to be either Elma or Rex (but not both); while the Octolings would have to be either an Alt to the Inklings, or an Echo Fighter. Though they are just outside. The reason I say this? Honestly, similar to Pikmin, I have no idea how one could differentiate the Octolings from the Inklings. And I think if either Elma or Rex were going to get in, you'd think we'd get a brand new Xenoblade stage that might hint at this. But we are not.

The only possible exception--a brand new franchise representative in spite the lack of a new stage--might actually be the Monster Hunter due to that boss monster/Assist Trophy in the Direct. But even then, this doesn't look like a selectable stage so much as it is a boss battle for a new Adventure/Subspace-like mode. In fact, in the Direct, it is shown to only ever feature one fighter fighting him at a time as a boss. And the Monster Hunter stage doesn't even appear in the Stage Select Screen.

But I do leave it out as a possibility that the Monster Hunter might potentially be a new playable character from a newly represented franchise. But outside from that, it's pretty much limited to just the main 32 represented franchises, specifically (and most likely) from 11 pf them.

Boy, I said a lot. Hopefully, I don't get in trouble for this. Just let me know if I did something wrong so I may correct it, mod. At the very least, I doubt I used any swear words.
I mean, you said a lot, but in the end, I was right. There are a handful of stages still to come. Not a lot mind you, but like, 4-6.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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LOL, since the game sorta has the heroes vs villains theme ...Maybe we can get the Geno/ Mallow character from that one disconfirmed rumor.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Define "the same". Are we talking about Mario and Dr. Mario same, Marth and Lucina same, or Olimar and Alph same?
He said "Though his strength is the same, his look, voice and animations set him apart"

That really makes it seem like there's nothing else that sets him apart
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Loz said he thinks Skull Kid is in and doesn't personally think the Gen7 mon is Incineroar.

That's it really.


The oddest thing about Skull Kid is the Moon though being an AT.
You'd expect it to be his final smash

But I guess the final smash could be majora's mask turning into majora
 

Captain Shwampy

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Did Vergeben or Loz18 make any new claims today?
Verg: getting isabelle and gen 7 pokemon

Loz18: no isabelle, gen 8 pokemon and skull kid

this is the first time theyve contradicted each other, so one will btfo and the other will get their 2 min of internet fame. Or maybe there both wrong who knows
 

Jubileus57

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I mean, you said a lot, but in the end, I was right. There are a handful of stages still to come. Not a lot mind you, but like, 4-6.
If there still was something to come stagewise, Sakurai wouldn't have presented the 103 number the way he did, especially when he proudly announced that there were exactly 100 stages aside from Battlefields and FD.

That 103 number is final. Though I would admit it might be a difficult pill to swallow to some.

And that Rathalos stage is almost guaranteed to be from the secret mode. It would be senseless to show it and not include in in the SSS in the very same direct.
 

Shroob

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If there still was something to come stagewise, Sakurai wouldn't have presented the 103 number the way he did, especially when he proudly announced that there were exactly 100 stages aside from Battlefields and FD.

That 103 number is final. Though I would admit it might be a difficult pill to swallow to some.

And that Rathalos stage is almost guaranteed to be from the secret mode. It would be senseless to show it and not include in in the SSS in the very same direct.
People literally just commented earlier in this thread explaining why the 103 number is wrong.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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If I had to choose between Isabella and Skull Kid, Skull Kid wins 100% of the time

Then give me Nook as well instead

Edit: If I had to pick which one was probably TRUE, I'd have to be a pessimist and go with Isabella
 
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epicgordan

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I mean, you said a lot, but in the end, I was right. There are a handful of stages still to come. Not a lot mind you, but like, 4-6.
Look, I get it. It seems weird. But we saw the stage select screen with all 103 stages. And we got confirmation that every stage in the game is available right from the start (meaning no unlockables). So unless you have some proof beyond some empty black slots taking up space for no reason, I'm sorry. But I'm gonna go with what I heard from the Direct. 103 stages. Total. Is it weird that we are not getting a new Pokémon stage? Certainly. If anything, that's the one thing I felt certain about should we get a Gen 7 rep in Smash.

But on the bright side, it at least made it easy enough to narrow down who our final newcomers are going to be.

As to the Minecraft content Vergeben spoke of, I think it's one of two things; either a Stage Builder mode loosely inspired by Minecraft; or, similarly to Rayman, we get several Minecraft-related trophies--if not a Steve Assist Trophy. Heck, another distinct possibility might have something to do with that new Adventure/Subspace-type mode that we got a sneak peak at.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I'm still holding out hope that Isaac will bring in Golden Sun as a new franchise. Seems likely considering both Ridley and K. Rool mad it in due to fan demand. K. Rool got in despite his irrelevancy, Ridley got in despite Sakurai saying he was not possible, and the only two characters with popularity that even comes close to those two is Geno and Isaac. I think if we were to get one more fan legacy character it'll be one of those two or, preferably, both.
 
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