Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CrusherMania1592]

it is unfortunate how many people think elma and isabelle are going to be in this game

Ridley, King K Rool, and Daisy all say hi

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I'd honestly be 'okay' with this, though a 2nd 'Mario', even with his block design would get hella confusing but...

I can't imagine anyone seriously likes Gothitelle as a Pokemon. That thing is hideous and was kind of a Gen 5 flop to recapture the appeal of Gardevoir.

I honestly didnt even think about Gardevoir tho or popular ballot pokemon choice. I wonder if Sakurai would actually ignore repping a new gen and just add a popular pokemon choice instead

Also Gothorita is a better design

 

[Shroob]

I can't see Paper Mario working as an echo of Mario for.....pretty ****ing obvious reasons, to be frank, especially when the hammer is one of the things to define him, which would leave Mario 64 Mario which.... would just be really weird.

It'd be cute, but it'd honestly work better like in Odyssey where it's an Alt costume.

Having 2 Marios that look basically the exact same might get real confusing,

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I can't see Paper Mario working as an echo of Mario for.....pretty ****ing obvious reasons, to be frank, especially when the hammer is one of the things to define him, which would leave Mario 64 Mario which.... would just be really weird.

It'd be cute, but it'd honestly work better like in Odyssey where it's an Alt costume.

Having 2 Marios that look basically the exact same might get real confusing,

wasnt mario used a placeholder name when smash 4 got datamined

assuming that rumour is real, it might have just been a placholder name

 

[papagenos]

I honestly didnt even think about Gardevoir tho or popular ballot pokemon choice. I wonder if Sakurai would actually ignore repping a new gen and just add a popular pokemon choice instead

gardevoirs similar to like "gengar" where its just a very popular pokemon and i could really see it happening honestly.

i will say from vergebens pokemon leak he may only have said "a GEN 7 pokemon that is not decidueye/mimikyu/lycanroc" because he was told by a source hes "unsure of" that it was "incineroar", as in he heard the three it ISNT and then assumed gen7 cause the one source who was telling him a pokemon said incineroar. the fact he thinks its "gen 7" might only be based on that or just an assumption... i havent heard him say convictly its definitely a gen 7 pokemon without a doubt.

richter is a VERY tough guess in the face of simon belmont being leaked AND guessing k rool AND dark samus without guessing anything that got deconfirmed.

saying richter instead of simon is also forgivable in that the leaker didnt claim to know everything just that he saw richter data but not simon which could have just been something that happened in the data he saw (dont they say they dont show everything in the same builds to stop people from leaking it all?).

this seems like a pretty credible leak to me simply based on all the hoops its jumped through and survived.

 

[Staarih]

On another note I think people are sleeping on Jeanne as an echo. She makes just too much sense. Not only does she make far too much sense as an echo (much more than Dark Samus, Shadow, Daisy or Isabelle), as she fights almost exactly like Bayo in her core games, and is a central character in the Bayonetta series, she is also quite beloved by Hideki Kamiya who I can see pushing for her addition.

Now that Richter and likely Shadow are in as 3rd party echoes, I think she is quite likely to show up.

Jeanne would definitely fit the bill easily, but I think we've seen Bayonetta have her Jeanne-inspired alt color in Ultimate, right? One of the reasons people called out Chrom and Dark Samus as Echoes was because of their colors missing from Ike and Samus respectively. Not a concrete "no" of course, but interesting nonetheless. We'll see.

Currently banking on Shadow and Dixie as Echoes, maybe Octoling if the timing fits. Isabelle I'd rather be unique, but she's also an option.

I can't imagine anyone seriously likes Gothitelle as a Pokemon. That thing is hideous and was kind of a Gen 5 flop to recapture the appeal of Gardevoir.

Legit one of my favorite Gen 5 Pokémon. Would be super random for her to ever make it in Smash though (as playable).

 

[Shroob]

Jeanne would definitely fit the bill easily, but I think we've seen Bayonetta have her Jeanne-inspired alt color in Ultimate, right? One of the reasons people called out Chrom and Dark Samus as Echoes was because of their colors missing from Ike and Samus respectively. Not a concrete "no" of course, but interesting nonetheless. We'll see.

Currently banking on Shadow and Dixie as Echoes, maybe Octoling if the timing fits. Isabelle I'd rather be unique, but she's also an option.


Legit one of my favorite Gen 5 Pokémon. Would be super random for her to ever make it in Smash though (as playable).

Ugh, sorry, I just can't stand the design though. Doesn't help that its pre-evos are the stuff of nightmares.


It's basically what you get when a Jynx and a Gardevoir love each other very, very much.

 

[epicgordan]

The stage select screen in Smash Ultimate is organized in a very similar fashion to that of Smash 3DS. Which, of course, did not center its bottom row. Ever.

It's likely the same thing. There's can only be so many stages before it becomes way too cramped to fit in that instead of being neat and orderly with them, it didn't surprise me in the least that would instead settle for Left Indent.

Sorry, but crying, "Oh! Look at all these spaces! Why would that be it!? There's gotta be more!" when it probably would have been way too much a hassle to create a build that only carried 103 stages out of, what? 107? 108? It is implied that they planned to add more, and may have even attempted to bring back every stage. But as they said, ran out of time!

Why even get so defensive about it? Sakurai stated 103 stages! Total. Not at least. For a fact. And that every stage is available right from the start.

Trust me; I was one of those people that insisted that there had to be more characters in Smash 3DS and Wii U, and even attempted to contrive crap, too just to prove my point. Then again, maybe I was a little bummed out that they couldn't even bother to bring back Wolf.

But I digress.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Did you guys see people legit think the purple and yellow chairs behind Sakurai are part of him trolling and Waluigi is in?

Waluigi fans have reached a height the ''Ridley isn't a stage hazard" never ever hit.

 

[Shroob]

The stage select screen in Smash Ultimate is organized in a very similar fashion to that of Smash 3DS. Which, of course, did not center its bottom row. Ever.

It's likely the same thing. There's can only be so many stages before it becomes way too cramped to fit in that instead of being neat and orderly with them, it didn't surprise me in the least that would instead settle for Left Indent.

Sorry, but crying, "Oh! Look at all these spaces! Why would that be it!? There's gotta be more!" when it probably would have been way too much a hassle to create a build that only carried 103 stages out of, what? 107? 108? It is implied that they planned to add more, and may have even attempted to bring back every stage. But as they said, ran out of time!

Why even get so defensive about it? Sakurai stated 103 stages! Total. Not at least. For a fact. And that every stage is available right from the start.

Trust me; I was one of those people that insisted that there had to be more characters in Smash 3DS and Wii U, and even attempted to contrive crap, too just to prove my point. Then again, maybe I was a little bummed out that they couldn't even bother to bring back Wolf.

But I digress.

Looks centered to me.

Yes, it only became said way after the DLC button was added, but it's a perfect square.


We're not going to agree on this, no matter how much we argue as a heads up. You've still yet to refute my claim on Mute City as is.

 

[osby]

Ugh, sorry, I just can't stand the design though. Doesn't help that its pre-evos are the stuff of nightmares.


It's basically what you get when a Jynx and a Gardevoir love each other very, very much.

I love both Jynx and Gardevoir families so I liked it, though I prefer Gothorita.

 

[Jubileus57]

Jeanne would definitely fit the bill easily, but I think we've seen Bayonetta have her Jeanne-inspired alt color in Ultimate, right? One of the reasons people called out Chrom and Dark Samus as Echoes was because of their colors missing from Ike and Samus respectively. Not a concrete "no" of course, but interesting nonetheless. We'll see.

Currently banking on Shadow and Dixie as Echoes, maybe Octoling if the timing fits. Isabelle I'd rather be unique, but she's also an option.


Legit one of my favorite Gen 5 Pokémon. Would be super random for her to ever make it in Smash though (as playable).

Well should she appear in her Bayo 2 costume, Jeanne would have a drastically sifferent design than either Bayos with very long white hair and a noticeable Biker suit. And even her Bayo 1 costume, despite sharing the short hair, does have a very distinct costume with a pooffy black collar, glasses resting on her forehead instead of in front of her eyes and huge feathers dangling from her guns, keeping her very distinct from Bayonetta.

After all Pit kept his Dark Pit palette didn't he?

 

[Darkraid]

Did you guy realize this?

July direct - Unique/Inkling, Ridley. Echo/Daisy

August - Unique/Simon, King K Rool Echo/Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus

I think there may a direct every month with 2 unique and some echoes.

Maybe Sept direct on online modes, Oct direct on offline modes, Nov direct on the ''green'' censored mode.

So maybe total 10 unique total and 10 echoes

 

[Shroob]

Did you guy realize this?

July direct - Unique/Inkling, Ridley. Echo/Daisy

August - Unique/Simon, King K Rool Echo/Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus

I think there may a direct every month with 2 unique and some echoes.

Maybe Sept direct on online modes, Oct direct on offline modes, Nov direct on the ''green'' censored mode.

So maybe total 10 unique total and 10 echoes

I think a Direct in September is inevitible due to Nintendo needing to elaborate on their online features, but I'm not expecting a content dump like today.

Maybe an echo and newcomer, but not like today, today was special.

 

[Zinith]

So there are 2 "Today's Fighters." Simon and King K. Rool

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Did you guy realize this?

July direct - Unique/Inkling, Ridley. Echo/Daisy

August - Unique/Simon, King K Rool Echo/Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus

I think there may a direct every month with 2 unique and some echoes.

Maybe Sept direct on online modes, Oct direct on offline modes, Nov direct on the ''green'' censored mode.

So maybe total 10 unique total and 10 echoes

20 new characters all up? There's no way, honestly. I agree we'll see a direct in September- they'll need it to cover the Switch's online and the rest of 2018/ early 2019' lineup.

 

[Scicky]

Did you guy realize this?

July direct - Unique/Inkling, Ridley. Echo/Daisy

August - Unique/Simon, King K Rool Echo/Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus

I think there may a direct every month with 2 unique and some echoes.

Maybe Sept direct on online modes, Oct direct on offline modes, Nov direct on the ''green'' censored mode.

So maybe total 10 unique total and 10 echoes

Inkling/Ridley/Daisy was June, so if you're looking for a pattern it'd be every 2 months, meaning October and then maybe one EARLY December if anything.

Once a month would be wonderful, but I'm only expecting 3 or 4 unique newcomers after this. Echo's I'm not so sure, after today I could imagine us getting anywhere between 2 more and 15 more, who knows?

 

[Darkraid]

20 new characters all up? There's no way, honestly. I agree we'll see a direct in September- they'll need it to cover the Switch's online and the rest of 2018/ early 2019' lineup.

I think there might be no direct in Oct perhaps.

 

[Shroob]

8 unique newcomers and 8 echoes honestly 'feels' right, imo.

Though at the same time, that number 'seems' a bit high..... well we also got 5 ****ing characters dumped on our heads today out of nowhere.

 

[Shoopdawooper]

I can also see a final showcase happening where they just blast through a giant list of echo fighers. I think the theme of rivalries is strong so far, and it lends itself perfectly for echo characters.

It would be less hype than brand new characters, but by doing them in a large quantity on after the other, I think that's the way to reveal them if they decided to go the "many echoes" route.

 

[Bayopuff]

I don't really care for Chrom, but Simon/Richter look pretty cool, I'll have to try them out when the game releases, maybe they'll be in my Tertiaries list! (Not making it to Secondaries or Mains though).

King K. Rool seems pretty heavy, and I'm good at playing with heavy characters (Bowser and Dedede are Secondaries for me), so maybe he'll get there too!

Overall, my ranking for the characters in this Direct:
Simon/Richter > K. Rool > Chrom.

 

[Zinith]

The only way I can see Boshi getting in is as a package deal with Geno. If the theme of rivalries is true and Kamek is basically disconfirmed due to the confirmation of Mushroom Kingdom U, then I can see this happening.

Yeah, it's the best hope I have...

 

[Shroob]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of "8 newcomers, 8 echoes"

And the thing is, we're already halfway there.


Newcomers: Inkling, Ridley, Simon, K.Rool

Echoes: Daisy, Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus

 

[osby]

I can also see a final showcase happening where they just blast through a giant list of echo fighers. I think the theme of rivalries is strong so far, and it lends itself perfectly for echo characters.

It would be less hype than brand new characters, but by doing them in a large quantity on after the other, I think that's the way to reveal them if they decided to go the "many echoes" route.

I think letting echoes increase over time slowly is better than dumping a ton of them at once. It helps them feel like legit, if not as exciting newcomers.

 

[Shroob]

Although it is still just a theory, the theory of "Keeping the original 12 together" on the top row seems to give a chance of 8 more characters(4 echo, 4 newcomers), but this is also with Miis on, and the final Roster is most likely not in this shape anyway.

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

They promised us over 50 Assist trophies, and we’ve seen about 40 so far, so 10 more are still unconfirmed/unknown.

 

[Scicky]

8 unique newcomers and 8 echoes honestly 'feels' right, imo.

Though at the same time, that number 'seems' a bit high..... well we also got 5 ****ing characters dumped on our heads today out of nowhere.

Yeah, 16 newcomers would still be the second lowest in the series, but would also be more than Smash 4 had at launch, so I wouldn't expect too much more honestly.

That being said, I'm really happy with this games newcomers so far and don't really need a lot more. As great as Smash 4 was, a lot of the newcomers spots didn't have the kind of legacy that K. Rool, Ridley or Simon have, nor were their franchises or designs as iconic as the Squid Kids quickly became. Xenoblade is neat, and I know it has a sizeable fanbase, but the reaction to Shulk at the time was a lot of 'who?'. Fire Emblem reps quickly became exhausting. Greninja was sort of a flavour of the month at the time and Wii Fit and Duckhunt were fun but left field picks that were more entertaining than genuinely exciting to see. The characters with the biggest legacies in Smash 4 were mostly 3rd parties, which was a bit of a let down. I remember Brawl's hype cycle being a bit more engaging because we were still getting fairly big name picks like Diddy Kong, Wario, Dedede, Sonic, etc.

Not to disparage any of those characters, as they're all really fun to play regardless, but the sheer impact the reveals have had for Ultimate is awe inspiring in comparison. These characters are ones that should've been in for years now, if not from the start, and if you ask me, that's more exciting to watch play out than 'Oh, Greninja! Cool I guess?'

(Not saying that every pick from Brawl, or even Melee, is the most hype thing ever, I just felt like Smash 4's additions were particularly puzzling)


-------

Completely separate thought: Is Dark Samus going to be included in the starting roster or do you guys think echoes will be unlocked independent from their counterparts?

 

[Jetsurge]

View attachment 156554


Although it is still just a theory, the theory of "Keeping the original 12 together" on the top row seems to give a chance of 8 more characters(4 echo, 4 newcomers), but this is also with Miis on, and the final Roster is most likely not in this shape anyway.

RIP Ninten if this theory is true

 

[Darkraid]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of "8 newcomers, 8 echoes"

And the thing is, we're already halfway there.


Newcomers: Inkling, Ridley, Simon, K.Rool

Echoes: Daisy, Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus

Probably why the direct is on 8/8/2018?

 

[Jetsurge]

They promised us over 50 Assist trophies, and we’ve seen about 40 so far, so 10 more are still unconfirmed/unknown.

I'm expecting Mallow and some FF assist trophies like Terra, Black Mage and a Chocobo. I also think Chun-Li will be the Street Fighter assist trophy if there is one.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Still many things to speculate 'till the next direct


dangit i'm thirsty again

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

@everyone who schooled me

Thanks for filling me in. I had no idea who Richter was and his relationship to Castlevania. Nor that he was so popular in Japan. Still, not a huge fan but, hey, everyone is back and I got Ridley, Dark Samus, and K Rool. All is right in the world.

Onto something else, I’m cool with Chrom getting in (would of preferred Celica or Lyn) but, seriously, I thought expressions were the big deal in this Smash. What’s with Chrom having like zero of it in those pictures on his character? He has the same amount of personality as a dead fish judging from them.

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/25e.html

Oh wait....he does grit his teeth in one picture. But his eyes show that theirs hardly anything going on in that dull blue head of his.

Opossum , care to weigh in on this issue?

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, at this point, if there's any Echo Fighter I feel like is a guarantee after today, it's Ken.

 

[DJ3DS]

Honestly, at this point, if there's any Echo Fighter I feel like is a guarantee after today, it's Ken.

Akuma over Ken is also a real possibility, but in either event I would be surprised not to see a Ryu echo somewhere down the line.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I just really like the idea of echoes.

Clones never bothered me that much and having this much echoes is just amazing to me.

Chrom is so far my favorite one. I never really played as Roy but I sure as heck will play as Lucina's daddy,

 

[osby]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of "8 newcomers, 8 echoes"

And the thing is, we're already halfway there.


Newcomers: Inkling, Ridley, Simon, K.Rool

Echoes: Daisy, Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus

I liked it too, but when you say it like that, it seems pretty unlikely newcomer count being this "clean". I'd like to be wrong, though.

 

[Cosmic77]

After yesterday, here's how the franchises stack up in numbers (tied franchises are ranked based on which got to the number first).

Pokemon - 9:
Mario - 8:
Fire Emblem - 7: Chultcorrin:
Zelda - 6:
Metroid - 4: DS
Kirby - 3:
Star Fox - 3:
Kid Icarus - 3:
Donkey Kong - 3: KR
EarthBound - 2:
Castlevania - 2: Si Ri

- I think it's pretty insane how much Metroid jumped up since Smash 4. It's now at fifth.
- Kirby's still sitting pretty at three; I'm hoping that'll change.
- It took a while, but DK now has three. I'd really like to get one more, but I can't complain with what we have.
- Fire Emblem snagged third by getting three characters from the same game and four wonderful variations of Marth. Yay...
- Zelda is in dire need of another rep, but I doubt any other franchise will steal its fourth place standing.

 

[Jetsurge]

Honestly, at this point, if there's any Echo Fighter I feel like is a guarantee after today, it's Ken.

And Shadow. No way Sonic isn't getting one after being in Smash all this time.

 

[Zinith]

God I feel like a broken record...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

God I feel like a broken record...

Look on the bright side, despite all the stuff we can speculate about, people are still going "hnnnmgh Shadow Echo fighter" as the main discussion