Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Radical Bones]

Every iterarion of Smash Bros has a controversial character though. That's not a leak.

 

[Noipoi]

I need an Ashley reveal in my life right about now.

That would make August fantastic.

Big Mood.
Though a spooky Halloween reveal would be acceptable as well.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...ons-including-smash-bros-ultimates-e3-reveal/

So Sakurai said the name of the studio he commissioned for the CG cutscenes was Digital Frontier- what was the name of the studio the Gengar leaker worked at again?

Oh boy.

Gengar kicked the bucket?

I posted this in the Ashley support thread, but this is a deep look at Ashley's prospects that I think it is integral to share with other speculators who are thinking about Ashley's circumstances.

With Wednesday drawing to a close, I do not think we will be getting a Nintendo Direct this week. One hypothesis I possessed was that due to so few months left until Ultimate's release and due to Sakurai likely only have only a few (4-6) non-echo newcomers left, that we would get our reveals in three Nintendo Directs before Ultimate's release:
1. A Nintendo 3DS focused Direct.
2. A Q4 focused Direct.
3. A Smash Ultimate focused Direct.

I thought that one of the purposes of a 3DS focused Direct would be to help advertise and promote WarioWare Gold and Etrian Odyssey X. Both of these game's release tomorrow in Japan (August 2nd). Now, there are no more games with set release dates for the 3DS in Japan.

It seems as though the 3DS Nintendo Direct is not going to happen. Unless there is a multitude of unannounced 3DS software Nintendo is making, there simply is not enough material for a Direct. Nintendo only has two 3DS titles left that we know about (Luigi's Mansion 1 3DS port and the Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story remake). I would think for a Direct to be viable they would need three more titles to announce for the platform. With how the platform was treated at E3 (it was not featured at all in the E3 Direct), it might be possible Nintendo is retreating on plans to support the platform through 2019.

If that is the case, it might be a possibility that the rumored Wario Land title, might be the last notable exclusive game made for the 3DS (and even then that game might end up being retooled to be cross-gen like the Captain Toad port, Sushi Strikers, and according to rumors, the Luigi's Mansion port).

One less Nintendo Direct means one less opportunity for a character unveil. Each week that goes by without new information, the probability of each additional non-echo newcomer slot slightly goes down. Sakurai has said that we hope that we are not "hoping for too many new fighters". What this means, is open to a myriad of interpretation as to what is the upper and lower limits to the integers involved in this statement. Personally, I see it as five or six non-echo newcomers left at most, especially given how much time is left until the game's release (only four months left).

Now who fares well under a scenario where there are only five or six newcomers left? That is again open to interpretation. For example, K. Rool is far, far more popularly requested than Geno, but fans of Geno can point to Sakurai's own statements on the character as a sign of the character having favor over K. Rool in terms of "priority". Who has priority in a situation where there are not enough seats for your biggest prospective guests? We can only guess.

Since this is the Ashley thread, I think the topic should go to Ashley. Where does she stand? She is most likely in the Top 10 most wanted newcomers on the Japanese side of things. She had been a character that was cross-promoted in a lot of other Nintendo media (most notable the Badge Arcade and 3DS themes). This in particular shows Nintendo thought Ashley had enough appeal for people to spend money on media just for her alone.

How many people? How much money? I do not have the figures, and I have no idea how many and how much (Nintendo might have disclosed somewhere how much money the Badge Arcade and Nintendo 3DS themes have made them, however, I doubt they gave the figures on how much Ashley related media was bought and how much income it brought them). However, what we do know is that Sakurai has gone on the record to say Smash Bros. does promote other Nintendo media, especially media that is relatively contemporary at the time. Is Ashley a brand? If Nintendo sees her as one, despite her not becoming any more prominent (or much more prominent) than the rest of the WarioWare cast within the WarioWare games, she might be promoted into a character slot. I would see this as a likely newcomer under a normal Smash Bros. scenario.

However, Ultimate is not a normal scenario. This is the first game since Melee, where the entire previous cast has returned (and indeed Sakurai has said that this most likely will be the only time that this will ever happen), and also, the only game where its unveil did not keep people guessing and speculating as to who was coming back. The tradeoff though was for in exchange for every single member of Smash's cast getting one more time in the spotlight, there would be a much lower figure of true newcomers than there was for Brawl and Smash 4. I imagine the echo fighters will be fulfilling the same role that Melee's six clones did, they will exist to fluff up the number of new fighters to the game due to the number of unique newcomers being low compared to the previous installment.

Does Ashley stand tall in such a landscape? Let us look at whom has been added so far. Inklings and Ridley. For the former, Splatoon has been an absolutely enormous success. Splatoon is now a bigger franchise in Japan than Final Fantasy. Splatoon was the second-highest selling Wii U game in Japan (with only New Super Mario Bros. U, a launch title and a sidescrolling Mario game, selling more). Splatoon 2 is the highest selling Switch game in Japan, and has sold on par with the likes of Brawl and Smash 4 3DS in Japan, both of which were the highest selling Smash games in Japan, and Splatoon 2 is stilling selling (it will probably crack three million copies sold in Japan alone eventually). There is a very strong reason why Inklings were featured alongside Mario and Link as the only characters shown in the Ultimate teaser back in March. They are that big now (at least on the Japanese side of things).

Then we have Ridley. Ridley was among the very few characters left whom was implemented in his own franchise from the very beginning and such a critical actor in his own series that he made more regular appearances in his own franchise than Ganon/Ganondorf in The Legend of Zelda series. Ridley had been a very popularly requested character among Western Smash Bros. fans for over 17 years. He, alongside Samus and Metroid, is one of few the faces of the Metroid series, one of Nintendo's most esteemed and long running franchises. He was just as much a titan and a legend as the Inklings were (in their short history).

Now where does Ashley fit? She is not Inkling or Ridley, that is for sure. However, within the past few years, Ashley has become a sort of brand, especially so for Nintendo's dedicated handheld, the 3DS. If there is ONE WarioWare character that has notoriety, excluding the series namesake character, its Ashley. However, does Nintendo plan to continue to make Ashley a "brand"? She got a dedicated mini-game in WarioWare Gold, and its conceivable that such a game could be sold separately as a 3DS download only title (much like Pyoro was sold separately on the DSiWare shop). However, what is Ashley's future?

That last question is important. An integral consideration that Sakurai had when deciding much of Smash 4's roster, was just that. WarioWare as a series, was on a five year hiatus from Game & Wario to WarioWare Gold. The five year hiatus did not stop Ashley though. She continued to appear in other media and games. This might be taken as a sign that Nintendo sees Ashley beyond WarioWare.

However, it is not just what Nintendo's consideration is, it is Sakurai's consideration too. Take this for example. Back during Brawl's development, Miyamoto suggested to Sakurai that Pac-Man would make a great guest character, and Sakurai just laughed it off, thinking of Pac-Man as just a pie-shaped circle when dismissing him. This is an integral example, as Nintendo could make the suggestion of "hey, you should promote Ashley", and Sakurai could just think, "what has she done to warrant to make her playable, she just seems like just another member of Wario's crew? I only have some many slots available this time for new characters."

The question then falls under further scrutiny when you take into consideration just how few true newcomers Sakurai has time to implement. Is Ashley more important than promoting the current face of Pokemon? Is she more important to promote than K. Rool or Dixie Kong? More important to promote than Bandanna Dee? More important than putting in someone representing Rhythm Heaven? Do all or some trump Ashley?

I feel that if Ashley does make it in, its not just going to be her popularity or "I think she could be an interesting fighter", but the fact that Nintendo might see her as a sort of "brand" separate from Wario. There is some evidence for this, and it will be interesting to see if it continues in the future.

I feel Ashley still has good prospects for getting in despite Gold's release coming and going. We most likely will have Wario as today's update so that something is being used to promote Gold's Japanese release.

However, she is far from a shoe-in. She can easily not make it just due to the fact that there are very few non-echo newcomer slots left. Keep all this in mind as you either put Ashley on your prospective rosters, or hope for her inclusion.

Edit, some additional thoughts to add:
Ashley's strongest point is not "Japanese popularity" but rather if Nintendo sees her as a "brand" separate from WarioWare (the amount of Ashley themed badges in the Badge Arcade and Ashley 3DS themes might be evidence for this). Under other considerations (being the most popular WarioWare character aside from Wario, possible moveset potential) probably are not enough for her to get in as as a newcomer under Ultimate's unique circumstances.

Does Nintendo make money off of Ashley alone? Can they continue to make money off her alone? If the answers to those questions is "Yes, and A LOT", she stands taller than even the likes of K. Rool. That is how a side character from a relatively less notable Nintendo franchise manages to get in as an unique fighter when there are less than ten unique newcomer slots available.

Somehow this makes me see a future where Ashley has all but phased out Captain Toad as a new brand of a spinoff character getting healthy slew of games after she'd make it to Ultimate over him, if under these principles - since I can't see Captain Toad much marketed over this kind of a character on the long run.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

So how legit are these Heihachi leaks? Not that it’d surprise me; he’d be decently expected based on the current roster and developers.

Still not really expecting anything on Friday except reveals for Soul Calibur. Sakurai’s playing things close to the belt this round.


...Don’t forget though that Sakurai hates leaks and likes people to be surprised. We’ve never had a circumstance where all newcomers were officially revealed before release. I don’t think that the time between now and then will matter much - we’ll get a reveal or two in a direct or two, and there’ll be some surprises which will get datamined and leaked at release.


Uhh, never played Castlevania, but I can give it a go with my main...

: ...
Drac: ...?
: ...
Drac: ...
: ...!

Or give it a spin to Link more!

*Dracula: "Stop, unless you provide me your blood, no one is allowed here in my castle!" - (8/3/18)
"Well excuse me, Dracula!"
Dracula: "Your sarcasm annoys me, boy!"
"Well, I just had to say something snappy."
Dracula: "I'd rather you don't speak at all; I'm more used to your... quietude appeal.
"But I-"
Dracula: "Enough talk! HAVE AT YOU!!"

man this is too much fun.

 

[RandomAce]

Today's Stage:

Lylat Cruise

This stage rests on top of the spacecraft Pleiades. Since the craft tilts from side to side, it can affect the trajectory of ranged attacks as well your recovery distance.

Lylat Cruise is one of my favorite stages that I played in Brawl. It’s so awesome to battle on a moving ship while there is a literal galactic war zone going behind you with some awesome music playing. Of course this stage wasn’t on the 3DS so I couldn’t experience it again.

I’m happy how good the remade stage looks, this is definitely a stage I’m going to spend countless hours on.

 

[Noipoi]

Oh boy.

Gengar kicked the bucket?





Somehow this makes me see a future where Ashley has all but phased out Captain Toad as a new brand of a spinoff character getting healthy slew of games after she'd make it to Ultimate over him, if under these principles - since I can't see Captain Toad much marketed over this kind of a character on the long run.

Who says Toad has to die so Ashley can get a spin off? Both can exist you know.
Of course I want an Ashley series but you don't have to dump one spin off for another.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

Did one for Pit, even though FantasticMr.StarPit already did one.

Pit: There you are, Vampire!
Dracula: Oh, an angel. Tell me, have you come to 'smite' me?
Pit: Um... smite? Uh... Yes! Something like that. You steal the souls of man and enslave them to your will. In the name of the great Lady Palutena, I-
Dracula: Oh? Tell me, how is what I do any different from your precious... “Lady Palutena's” design?
Pit: -and free this land from your tyranny! ...Oh, sorry, were you saying something?
Dracula: I see... You are but a fool. Very well then, you shall pay for your ignorance with death.

That one is great! I guess mine's was a little too serious. lol. This also made my night! (I said day before but its nighttime for me.)

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...ons-including-smash-bros-ultimates-e3-reveal/

So Sakurai said the name of the studio he commissioned for the CG cutscenes was Digital Frontier- what was the name of the studio the Gengar leaker worked at again?

I believe this is what your looking for?

 

[Deleted member]

I need an Ashley reveal in my life right about now.

That would make August fantastic.

Right there with you. Ashley is probably the only character left besides Bandana Dee and Octolings that I'd actually get hyped about, TBH.

 

[KMDP]

next. CannonStreak actually stole my thunder a bit. XD

Sonic: Man, when those villagers told me there was a vampire in this castle, I should have believed them.
Dracula: ...And what are you supposed to be?
Sonic: I'm Sonic. Sonic the Hedgehog. The guy who's about to pound your sorry butt to next week.
Dracula: You don't look like any hedgehog I've ever seen before.
Sonic: Huh, maybe you don't get out as much as you should. The sunshine is great this time of year.
Dracula: You dare mock me? Such insolence shall not be forgiven. Have at you!

Ah... fun.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Pikachu would've been considered fat if he kept his 64 appearance, but modern times demanded that he slim up, set a good example for the kiddies, and occasionally appear on the side of a McDonald's Happy Meal box filled with fat-free milk and apple slices.

Pika Pika Mudda ****a

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Who says Toad has to die so Ashley can get a spin off? Both can exist you know.
Of course I want an Ashley series but you don't have to dump one spin off for another.

You say that, but Toad had once gotten top billing shafted from him. It could happen again under a different form.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

YOUR REACTION
If we get an entire month where a newcomer would be revealed every week.

*ATTENTION EVERYONE*

WE ARE NOW ENTERING HYPECON 5. HYPE IS REACHING CRITICAL MASS.

 

[CannonStreak]

Time for another one.

Pacman: *Chomp chomp chomp* Hey! Who's this guy? Doesn't look tasty. Does he even belong here?
Dracula: I am not meant for eating, yellow sphere person. But if you have any blood, I will happily feast on it.
Pacman: No thanks! Ever tasted Pac blood before?
Dracula: Then you are not needed here. Get out!
Pacman: Do you have any food to give before I go?
Dracula: No, but I'll give you my boot to kick you out of here! Have at you!

Another one.
Mewtwo: Hello, Dracula! I have always wanted a vampire under my control. Your mind is mine!
Dracula: No one simply controls the mind of Dracula, but if you have a good soul, I shall make it mine.
Mewtwo: What is the soul to the mind? A piece of garbage!
Dracula: You DARE insult the power of the soul?!
Mewtwo: I'll make you think the mind is even better, an you won't have a second thought!
Dracula: No, it is your soul that will belong to me, and YOU won't get a second chance against the great Dracula! Have at you!

 

[KMDP]

That one is great! I guess mine's was a little too serious. lol. This also made my night! (I said day before but its nighttime for me.)

Glad I made you laugh.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

If you played those two games and liked them, you'll LOVE the original. It's on the SNES Classic if you're interested

Ironically DS is my favorite though the original was no slouch either.

Yoshi's New Island kinda sucked but for all intents and purposes Yoshi's Woolly World filled that gap in my heart.

 

[RandomAce]

I'd honestly really like to see Lycaroc be playable, but I actually feel pretty confident it will be a different pokemon that makes the cut simply for moveset reason. Sure, Sakurai and the rest of the development team have proven time and time again that they can make interesting movesets out of pretty much anything. But when choosing a Pokemon rep, I feel like they'll go for one that has a lot of potential to be really unique rather than just whichever one is simply being promoted heaviest at the time. Decidueye has feather/leaf arrows and can use its wing like a bow. Incineroar is a heel fighter who shoots flames from his, um, belt. And Primarina makes balloons out of water and can attack with sound. Does Lycanroc really have any standout abilities aside from looking cool and smacking people with rocks?

To be honest, this is the sorta problem I had when coming up with a Gen 7 Pokémon.

Sure Lycanroc has been heavily promoted since it’s inception, and I love it to death, but I sorta want Decidueye because he just has so much potential for a fighter.

I just like Lycanroc a lot, and having evidence to prove that they may be likley just makes me even more happier, not to mention that there are ways to make them stand out, even if I might take some artistic liberties to make it happen. But I also like Decidueye since it looks so badass and awesome! I wish we can get both, even though there would be a lot of hate for there being 2 Gen 7 Pokémon (or 2 and 1/2 for what I want). It’s just that there is some potential for either to stand out pretty easily in my opinion, it may be harder for Lycanroc but when you look at them in it’s entirety, there are some things you can do with them.

However, I don’t like the idea of Incineroar or Mimikyu as Smash Fighters. That’s just my opinion.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Gengar's name being discussed makes me sad that I want him to be playable

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Who says Toad has to die so Ashley can get a spin off? Both can exist you know.
Of course I want an Ashley series but you don't have to dump one spin off for another.

It depends - I don't think he'd be dead, but probably put to dormancy or just not getting much attention compared to Ashley after she'd get a boost in marketing through Smash, while Captain Toad might be stuck on being an Assist or just being Toad in Peach's B-move again. Who do you think people would gravitate over time when presented both in these type of roles?

In general I kind of believe Captain Toad not being in Smash as a playable will be putting a hard dampening to his on-going momentum as current highly-marketed spin-off protagonist in Nintendo's hands, essentially dropping him back to his old days of being that "4th wheel NPC" of Mario-series - whether Ashley would be slowly be seen taking this place among the fanbase or not (that is if Nintendo puts forth the potential of using Ashley for her own spinoffs)

 

[CrusherMania1592]

*ATTENTION EVERYONE*

WE ARE NOW ENTERING HYPECON 5. HYPE IS REACHING CRITICAL MASS.

I'M REALLY FEELING IT!


Smashboards would become crash boards if this was to happen

 

[CannonStreak]

next. CannonStreak actually stole my thunder a bit. XD

Sonic: Man, when those villagers told me there was a vampire in this castle, I should have believed them.
Dracula: ...And what are you supposed to be?
Sonic: I'm Sonic. Sonic the Hedgehog. The guy who's about to pound your sorry butt to next week.
Dracula: You don't look like any hedgehog I've ever seen before.
Sonic: Huh, maybe you don't get out as much as you should. The sunshine is great this time of year.
Dracula: You dare mock me? Such insolence shall not be forgiven. Have at you!

Ah... fun.

Hey, that's good! Better than my first one.

Here is another shot at Sonic.

Sonic: Oh, it's a vampire! I'm so scared! *sarcasm*
Dracula: Are you serious or are you SERIOUSLY MOCKING ME?!!
Sonic: Won't matter once I send you to the grave within the next nanosecond.
Dracula: Ha! You think you can take me down that fast? What are you even supposed to be, a porcupine?
Sonic: Hey! I'm a hedgehog! Sonic the Hedgehog! And for getting my species wrong, you get to be taken down even faster!
Dracula: Ha! You seem so confident for a so called "hedgehog". Very well then. Perhaps you can entertain me at the least. Have at you!

 

[BlueMagician]

The WarioWare director has been called to work on Smash since Brawl, so I think it's good that WarioWare gets a shout-out today.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

there should be a thread where we could derail quotes from games for every roster, so that the smash ultimate thread isn't bombarded with quotes, so I think I'll stop, even though I almost can't. lol Its too much fun.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

As promised; the others coming soon!

Spoiler: Rabbid

Spoiler: Rabbid Mario

Tell me how you like them!

Great work. Thanks!

...now I just need to figure out how to edit my sig to showcase my most-wanted newcomer lmao

 

[RandomAce]

there should be a thread where we could derail quotes from games for every roster, so that the smash ultimate thread isn't bombarded with quotes, so I think I'll stop, even though I almost can't. lol Its too much fun.

They did it for Smash 4.

Apparently it was ****show, so much in fact that the mods had to close it down.

Smash 4 speculation was a crazy time.

EDIT: Oh wait wrong thing nevermind.

Make the thread yourself. There are some threads that are more like games.

 

[KMDP]

Hey, that's good! Better than my first one.

Here is another shot at Sonic.

Sonic: Oh, it's a vampire! I'm so scared! *sarcasm*
Dracula: Are you serious or are you SERIOUSLY MOCKING ME?!!
Sonic: Won't matter once I send you to the grave within the next nanosecond.
Dracula: Ha! You think you can take me down that fast? What are you even supposed to be, a porcupine?
Sonic: Hey! I'm a hedgehog! Sonic the Hedgehog! And for getting my species wrong, you get to be taken down even faster!
Dracula: Ha! You seem so confident for a so called "hedgehog". Very well then. Perhaps you can entertain me at the least. Have at you!

Sonic snark is the best snark. I could actually see mine being in a Modern Sonic game... I don't know whether that's good or bad.

Ganondorf would join in and then they'd share wine over talk about evil, nefarious things.

Watch this space. (Well... not this post. )

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Also DaybreakHorizon what’s shakin in Leak Land, bacon?

Rie probably keeps tehponycorn in a dungeon and every once in a while shouts down "How are you doing with leaks down there bud?"

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Rie probably keeps tehponycorn in a dungeon and every once in a while shouts down "How are you doing with leaks down there bud?"

Oh no, I’ve been found out!

 

[CannonStreak]

Sonic snark is the best snark. I could actually see mine being in a Modern Sonic game... I don't know whether that's good or bad.

Maybe if Classic Sonic games like Sonic Mania had dialogue, and your quote was in such a game, it would be even better than if it was in a Modern Sonic game!

 

[Noipoi]

there should be a thread where we could derail quotes from games for every roster, so that the smash ultimate thread isn't bombarded with quotes, so I think I'll stop, even though I almost can't. lol Its too much fun.

i agree we should't derail the thread too much, but it's not like we have much to talk about right now.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

They did it for Smash 4.

Apparently it was ****show, so much in fact that the mods had to close it down.

Smash 4 speculation was a crazy time.

EDIT: Oh wait wrong thing nevermind.

Make the thread yourself. There are some threads that are more like games.

Yeah, I'm thinking about doing a thread. One or the other. I might do one soon when I'm not at work.

 

[KMDP]

Maybe if Classic Sonic games like Sonic Mania had dialogue, and your quote was in such a game, it would be even better than if it was in a Modern Sonic game!

I'll take that as a compliment.


Ganondorf: This is a nice castle...
Dracula: You have good taste, for an intruder.
Ganondorf: It is almost as good as mine.
Dracula: ... Get out.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Anyway, I may have to go to bed soon cause I gotta get up early for an interview. I’ll comment on any leaks afterwards.

Night all, and wish me luck!

 

[CannonStreak]

I'll take that as a compliment.


Ganondorf: This is a nice castle...
Dracula: You have good taste, for an intruder.
Ganondorf: It is almost as good as mine.
Dracula: ... Get out.

Yeah, that was kinda meant to be a compliment. As for the Ganondorf one, LMAO! That was good!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Good night and good luck tomorrow!

 

[Noipoi]

I'll take that as a compliment.


Ganondorf: This is a nice castle...
Dracula: You have good taste, for an intruder.
Ganondorf: It is almost as good as mine.
Dracula: ... Get out.

: We talkin' castles? Don't even get me started!
: Tell em' Papa!
Dracula: Get. Out.

 

[Apollo500]

Anyway, I may have to go to bed soon cause I gotta get up early for an interview. I’ll comment on any leaks afterwards.

Night all, and wish me luck!

G'luck, have fun!

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Anyway, I may have to go to bed soon cause I gotta get up early for an interview. I’ll comment on any leaks afterwards.

Night all, and wish me luck!

Don't let the bed bugs bite!

 

[Noipoi]

Anyway, I may have to go to bed soon cause I gotta get up early for an interview. I’ll comment on any leaks afterwards.

Night all, and wish me luck!

Good luck, Paisano!

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

Anyway, I may have to go to bed soon cause I gotta get up early for an interview. I’ll comment on any leaks afterwards.

Night all, and wish me luck!

Good luck man! Smash the interview with your confidence.