Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mega Bidoof]

I have no clue what you're talking about. Every voice is an announcer voice.

Spoiler: The greatest Smash announcer of all time

That last video changed my life. Are there mods for every single character like that?

 

[Starbound]

I feel like there are some characters that are just destined to be good given their concept unless they are really screwed over by additional mechanics or unintentional glitches.

So my list, in no particular order:

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

I'll be honest with, I'm not a fan of the ocarina and I'd much rather focus on power of Majora's Mask for his moveset. I essentially want them to be a duo fighter of sorts. But even if you did just want a Skull Kid specific character, you should have used forest elements and the Twilight puppets. the ocarina songs just don't sound fun. In Hyrule Warriors, the ocarina was only really to give Skull Kid something to change with different tiers. It was never an actual weapon he used. And he was never that good at actually playing it.

Sorry.

Hey no, I appreciate you being honest. Really, I just wanted Skull Kid to be the ultimate puppet master character, meaning he would never once actually attack the opponent himself. But I also wanted him to use something canon from in game, and that's where I got the idea of the Ocarina. He has been shown to be tied heavily to music in the past, plus its not like he would necessarily be 'good' at playing it either. It would still take skill to use, meaning he would often mess up.. I was tempted to make him based on pure power, but that just didn't match the character in my personal opinion. However, I appreciate your input and hope you will continue to critique as I post more movesets here.

 

[Poopyhead]

My top 15 prediction:

( / )

My bottom 15 prediction (not ordered):

ultduckhunt: & Solo Charizard

Yeah... I don't expect many characters to move more than 1 tier up or down, personally. I'm really interested to see how mechanic changes affect some characters such as Jigglypuff. Could end up being really good or really bad for her.

also this is just my opinion i put no thought into pls understand

 

[Zinith]

Actually, the biggest hurdle to my boi's success has still yet to be overcome:

Spoiler

People actually ****ing maining him

 

[Will]

Actually, the biggest hurdle to my boi's success has still yet to be overcome:

Spoiler

People actually ****ing maining him

How does that make much of a difference?

 

[Zinith]

How does that make much of a difference?

He's had a comically low player base for a long time. It results in his meta stagnating...

 

[Will]

He's had a comically low player base for a long time. It results in his meta stagnating...

I don't imagine anyone who isn't Ridley or Ganon has a lot to talk about anyway. I mean, I main Little Mac and the last time I had a conversation about him was a month ago.

Do you mean it in a sense that there's no discovery for something Yoshi can do to be like mega top tier or something?

 

[PeridotGX]

How does that make much of a difference?

Because people have to actually play as him to see if he's good or not. Reminds me of what happened in 4. He was top 3 in the 3DS days, but he kept declining because nobody played him (and maybe we overeacted a bit) and now he's 34.

 

[Zinith]

I don't imagine anyone who isn't Ridley or Ganon has a lot to talk about anyway. I mean, I main Little Mac and the last time I had a conversation about him was a month ago.

Do you mean it in a sense that there's no discovery for something Yoshi can do to be like mega top tier or something?

Yeah pretty much. Since nobody plays him, there's no discoveries and no results

It's kind of a ****y cycle to be honest

 

[92MilesPrower]

*AUX CALL PUSH SELECT*

Snake: Lucario has always stood out from everyone else in Smash to me because of how he has "the aura." Seriously, how does his "aura" thing even work?

Mei Ling: I'm guessing that just saying his lifeforce is not a good enough explanation for you at this point. If that's the case, I'm not sure if I can answer that question, Snake.

Snake: True, it's not like either one of us, or Otacon or Colonel is an expert on everything to do with Pokémon. There's many other things that we don't know about them.

Mei Ling: If anything, a Pokémon Professor or a Nurse Joy could answer all of our questions that we have about Pokémon, but we have too many to even list!

Snake: Wait, I just realized, when I teamed up with Lucario 10 years ago on that one mission, he was able to see me through my cardboard box... Last I heard, his "aura" doesn't grant him X-Ray vision, does it?

Mei Ling: Huh, that is strange... maybe the Pokédex just quite isn't 100% complete yet!




Tomorrow's preview:

Otacon: That's not just any snake, Snake, that's THE Rope Snake!

Snake: ...I feel like my head is about to explode after hearing that sentence.

Next up:

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Because people have to actually play as him to see if he's good or not. Reminds me of what happened in 4. He was top 3 in the 3DS days, but he kept declining because nobody played him (and maybe we overeacted a bit) and now he's 34.

Am I the only one that views that as a verrrrry fitting Tier Number? >.>

 

[Zinith]

Am I the only one that views that as a verrrrry fitting Tier Number? >.>

Well I'm not sure I would--

OH WAIT!!! I get it! Irene you're dirty...

 

[Will]

Of all the veterans I'm hoping to get buffed, I really wanna see shine out. Not for any particular reason, but I just wanna see him out of all people make it to the top just to see Wario be top tier.

Am I the only one that views that as a verrrrry fitting Tier Number? >.>

Well I'm not sure I would--

OH WAIT!!! I get it! Irene you're dirty...

 

[MysticKnives]

I just don’t have much interest in playing or watching Yoshi matches outside 64. He’s very fun there. Always great to watch the Wiz play Yoshi there.

 

[Idon]

Of all the veterans I'm hoping to get buffed, I really wanna see shine out. Not for any particular reason, but I just wanna see him out of all people make it to the top just to see Wario be top tier.



View attachment 154844

Porn
It's Dino porn.

 

[Zinith]

Of all the veterans I'm hoping to get buffed, I really wanna see shine out. Not for any particular reason, but I just wanna see him out of all people make it to the top just to see Wario be top tier.



View attachment 154844

Wario was very close in Brawl and early Smash 4

And I'm surprised you don't get it...

 

[Starbound]

Yoshi has also been historically low tier in the first three games until the past few years (in Smash 64, he was mid-tier at best until 2015; low tier in Melee until 2015; always low-tier in Brawl). Even his mid-tier Smash 4 placement has been questioned. I feel like players just don't want to gravitate towards a character who has been consistently underwhelming.

I feel like Yoshi needs an overhaul to really standout. Move Egg Throw to Side Special, make it chargeable and angle-able like in Yoshi's Island. Then give him a real recovery move and he'll be much more interesting. Heck, he's already got the 'earthquake' from the Yellow Yoshi in Super Mario World. Give him Flight from Blue Yoshi and Fire Breath from Red Yoshi (I don't know how this would fit in unless you got rid of Egg Lay, which is kind of Yoshi's thing).

 

[Noipoi]

Am I the only one that views that as a verrrrry fitting Tier Number? >.>

Well I'm not sure I would--

OH WAIT!!! I get it! Irene you're dirty...

Why don't you two have a seat over there.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

It might just be crazy talk but why the hell would you even give a crap if your character is meta or top tier in a video game?

If you have fun with them. Play them. Who gives a **** if there an easy win or better than so and so. If you can win with them and are having fun?

I don't play Bayonetta because she's top tier. I play her because she's a favorite character and I'm good with with her.

I also enjoy Zelda and she's consider some of the worst of the worst.

But I enjoy her and that's all that really matters.

 

[KMDP]

The thing about Zinith 's argument about Yoshi not being used and his meta stagnating as a result reminds me of the story of Mewtwo in Melee.

If I remember right, Mewtwo was written off as an utterly trash character, then Mew2king showed up and started using him, and his tier placement rose slightly afterwards. Granted, it didn't raise much, but still.

 

[Noipoi]

It might just be crazy talk but why the hell would you even give a crap if your character is meta or top tier in a video game?

If you have fun with them. Play them. Who gives a **** if there an easy win or better than so and so. If you can win with them and are having fun?

That's all that really matters.

Ashley could literally be so bad she gets a tier all her own and i'd still main her, just cause I love the character.

 

[Zinith]

It might just be crazy talk but why the hell would you even give a crap if your character is meta or top tier in a video game?

If you have fun with them. Play them. Who gives a **** if there an easy win or better than so and so. If you can win with them and are having fun?

That's all that really matters.

It's more along the lines of "how does the general Smash community see this character" rather than "is he good." I don't think I need to remind you that top-tier doesn't always mean "well received"

 

[Tree Gelbman]

It's more along the lines of "how does the general Smash community see this character" rather than "is he good." I don't think I need to remind you that top-tier doesn't always mean "well received"

It doesn't, but I still don't give a ****. People can bad mouth Bayonetta all they want for being top tier, etc, etc, I still don't care. She's in Smash. I wouldn't care if she was bottom or top tier or what people say.

I also don't think you should give a crap what people think about Yoshi as long as you enjoy Yoshi. You are all that matters in the end.

And to be fair, no matter what the Smash community says about any character in this game? It takes nothing from that character, because Smash is filled with nothing but the best of the best in video gaming, so...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Starbound]

I get the tiers thing, but I really hope Pichu is one of the best characters because it would be a crazy turnaround.

Leaves Smash for 17 years to get Swole AF.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Okay so since we're discussing tiers, here's an idea for fun

List your five characters that you'd like to see buffed and five you'd like to see nerfed

Buffed:

Nerfed:

 

[Pakky]

These are a bit better.

Spoiler: Poochy_again

Spoiler: Yarn poochy_again

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I don't imagine anyone who isn't Ridley or Ganon has a lot to talk about anyway. I mean, I main Little Mac and the last time I had a conversation about him was a month ago.

Do you mean it in a sense that there's no discovery for something Yoshi can do to be like mega top tier or something?

A character's tier perception is just largely based on what is achieved with them in tournament play, all it takes is a single player breaking out and succeeding at major tournaments to drive up tier perception (e.g. Elegant with Luigi and Raito with Duck Hunt), and a character's single top player dropping them or disappearing is enough to drive them down (e.g. Ness when FOW disappeared in early Smash 4, Villager when Ranai being less active and declined, and Greninja post 1.0.4 when most of his early players dropped him). Smash 4 Yoshi was actually an exception for a while, as people were ranking him ludicrously high since the very beginning (including top 5) and Yoshi being a sleeper high tier was a stubborn common belief for a very long time, even though he never had the results to remotely justify such beliefs. However eventually the lack of results caught up, where despite Yoshi's decently large playerbase none ever broke through to the top level (from some combination of his players not being good enough and Yoshi not being as good as thought), with Yoshi being pretty much completely absent from major tournaments deep into brackets (with his only appearances being from when Kameme occasionally brought out his Yoshi to lose in weird counterpick attempts), leading to the drastic decline in Yoshi's tier perception.

So if you want your character's potential to shine through and people to think they're good, you want someone really good to play the character, not just a large amount of players (or be the change you want to see and become that really good player that shows everyone how to do it yourself).

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Okay so since we're discussing tiers, here's an idea for fun

List your five characters that you'd like to see buffed and five you'd like to see nerfed

Buffed:

Nerfed:

Buffed:
Nerfed:

 

[ZephyrZ]

The thing about Zinith 's argument about Yoshi not being used and his meta stagnating as a result reminds me of the story of Mewtwo in Melee.

If I remember right, Mewtwo was written off as an utterly trash character, then Mew2king showed up and started using him, and his tier placement rose slightly afterwards. Granted, it didn't raise much, but still.

How about Mewtwo in Smash 4? People ignored all the buffs he was recieving for a really long time, then Abadongo won a tourny and suddenly he skyrocketed to the other end of the tier list.

It should be noted that not all these buffs didn't come at once. He should have been gradually moving up the list, but no one mained him competitively so no one believed he actually had potential.

 

[KMDP]

It might just be crazy talk but why the hell would you even give a crap if your character is meta or top tier in a video game?

If you have fun with them. Play them. Who gives a **** if there an easy win or better than so and so. If you can win with them and are having fun?

I don't play Bayonetta because she's top tier. I play her because she's a favorite character and I'm good with with her.

I also enjoy Zelda and she's consider some of the worst of the worst.

But I enjoy her and that's all that really matters.

Well... let's see... my mains are... (not that I've ever played competitively)
Note: I've never played S64, so that's off the table. Providing the general consensus on them.

Pikachu - Generally good.
Dr. Mario - Okay in Melee, bad in Smash 4
Marth - Always been great.
Roy - Generally bad.
Ike - A skill-gate character, only really good against noobs or in free-for-alls
Sonic - Middling in Brawl, good in Smash 4.
Lucario - Just... okay.
Toon Link - Considered the best Link competitively, but "decent" at best.
Cloud - A top tier character that I've never used outside of against CPUs, and am not great at as a result.

Yeah, I don't really care about tier placement (EDIT: except academically), I just use who I like.

 

[Zerp]

Actually, the biggest hurdle to my boi's success has still yet to be overcome:

Spoiler

People actually ****ing maining him

I don't think that's really a problem, Smash 4 Yoshi has had plenty of good players main him over the course of it's history (Also, as of the last Japan power ranking, the 9th highest ranked player in all of Japan (Ron) mains Yoshi alongside Mario and Luigi), I don't think he really has a numbers problem or a lack of good players.

Spoiler: Copy-pasted from the wiki

Notable players[edit]
Active[edit]

• DIO - Placed 9th at Hyper Sumabato, 7th at Sumabato 13, and 5th at Sumabato 14.
• Dr. Robotnik - Placed 5th at North West Regionals, the Opening Major DEC 2014, 33rd at Don't Park on the Grass, 1st in over 2 dozen region events Eastern Washington, alternating 1st-5th on region PR since 2014 Eastern Washington.
• Firefly - Placed 5th at PAX Prime 2015, 1st at a few local tournaments in doubles play, 9th at Northwest Majors VIII, and 25th at Don't Park on the Grass. Ranked 12th on the British Columbia Power Rankings.
• JFK - Placed 25th at Low Tier City 4 and 49th at GameTyrant Expo 2017. Formerly ranked 3rd on the Colorado Power Rankings.
• Kamikaze - The best Yoshi player in Georgia. Placed 33rd at Super Smash Con 2016, UGC Smash Open, and MomoCon 2017, and 1st at a few local tournaments in doubles play. Formerly ranked 12th on the Georgia Power Rankings. He has wins over Hyper Kirby and ItsSonic.
• Nikes - Placed 17th at Battle Arena Melbourne 7, 3rd at Southern Cross Championship 2K15, 9th at Battle Arena Melbourne 8, and 25th at SXC 2K16. Ranked 4th on the South Australia Power Rankings.
• Poltergust - Placed 13th at Paragon Orlando 2015, 17th at CEO 2015, 49th at Paragon Los Angeles 2015, 13th at Smash the Record 2015, and 33rd at Frame Perfect Series 2. Ranked 10th on the Central Florida Power Rankings. He has a win over Earth.
• Raptor - Placed 9th at Super Smash Con 2015, 49th at GENESIS 3, 7th at GUMS 6, 17th at Pound 2016, 13th at Apex 2016, 5th at Glitch 2, and has achieved several top 10 placings at KTAR tournaments. Formerly ranked 9th on the New York City Power Rankings.
• Ron - Placed 2nd at Sumabato 12, 3rd at Hirosuma: Revolution, 2nd at Sumabato 17, and 1st at Sumabato 18. He has wins over Shuton and HIKARU.
• Seth - Placed 9th at Midwest Mayhem 3, 5, 7, and 8. Ranked 4th on the Chicago Power Rankings and 16th on the Midwest Power Rankings.
• Snoop - Placed 17th at 2GGT: FOW Saga, 25th at 2GGT: KTAR Saga, 49th at GENESIS 4, and 65th at 2GGC: Civil War. Ranked 3rd on the Las Vegas Power Rankings.
• Squerk - Placed 17th at Glitch 3, 65th at Super Smash Con 2016, and 65th at CEO Dreamland. Ranked 3rd on the South Virginia Power Rankings and 16th on the MD/VA Power Rankings. He has wins over WaDi, Mister Eric, and Remzi.
• Suarez - Placed 33rd at Overclocked II, 17th at KTAR XVI, and 13th at Collision XV. Has wins over players such as Frozen, John Numbers and DarkBlues. Formerly ranked 5th on the New York Power Rankings.
• Xeon - Placed 1st at First Attack 2016 in singles and doubles play, 1st at the majority of Puerto Rican tournaments in doubles play, and 17th at CEO 2016 in doubles play. Ranked 2nd on the Puerto Rico Power Rankings.

Inactive[edit]

• Barakas - One of the best Yoshi players in the world prior to his semi-retirement. Placed 49th at GENESIS 3, 9th at TGC 6, 13th at 2GGT: Mexico Saga, 49th at EVO 2016, and 49th at EVO 2017. Ranked 6th on the Texas Power Rankings.
• Sky - Placed 49th at Final Battle, Apex 2015, and EVO 2015. He has housed several top players during major SoCal tournaments.

Okay so since we're discussing tiers, here's an idea for fun

List your five characters that you'd like to see buffed and five you'd like to see nerfed

Buffed:

Nerfed:

Buffed:
Nerfed:
I don't care at all about how "fun" or "unfun" a character is, so I just picked who I view as the five weakest (non-mii) characters and the five strongest (non-mii) characters. I'm painfully boring, I know.

 

[OdnetninAges]

You know what I'm hoping for even more than any specific character newcomer? Someone who I didn't even know I wanted.

Before Smash for came along, I'd never played a Mega Man game before. I barely even knew the guy existed. But despite that, I the reveal trailer got me super pumped. It did such a good job at telling me what makes Mega Man such a cool fighter and why I should care about him. It lead me to buy Mega Man 2 on the virtual console and even clear it (admittedly with save states, I love difficulty but I'm not a self-punishing masochist). When the demo came out, I couldn't stop using him. Despite my old friends Link and Pikachu being there it was Mega Man who I couldn't stop myself from playing as.

It's the same with Bowser Jr. I like Mario, but I'm not a super devoted fan of it or anything. I never played Sunshine and couldn't give a darn if he made it in or not. But by slapping him in that Clown Kart they managed to make him a fighter that really stands out from the crowd, armt least conceptually. A lot of my early hours with the 3DS version were spent learning that character.

I'm waiting for Ultimate to do the same thing again - to get me hyped over a character I didn't expect nor care for.

Honestly, Cloud was this for me.

I was only familiar with him through Kingdom Hearts as I hadn't ever played Final Fantasy before, but I knew of the significance of the specific game he came from. I never expected to see him in Smash, but after he was added in I gave him a go and found him really fun to play. I normally try to main characters from games I like, but Cloud was probably the first time I'd mained someone from a game I haven't even played. I later got Final Fantasy VII on Steam because I'm a weirdo who always wants to check out all of the source material in crossover games.

super mario:
donkey kong:
zelda:
metroid:
yoshi:
kirby:
star fox: -Krystal
pokemon:
earthbound:
f zero:
ice climbers:
fire emblem:
game & watch:
kid icarus:
warioware:
pikmin: -Burrowing Snagret
robot:
animal crossing:
wii fit:
punch out:
mii:
xenoblade:
duck hunt:
splatoon: -Squid Sisters
metal gear:
sonic: -Knuckles the Echidna
megaman:
pacman:
street fighter:
final fantasy:
bayonetta: -Rodin

Super Mario: Pauline
Donkey Kong: ...Pauline?
Zelda: Groose (assuming he's not playable, which he should be, let him loose Nintendo)
Metroid: IDK
Yoshi: Poochy
Kirby: Marx (if he's not playable, which I guess is unlikely, IDK)
Pokemon: N/A
EarthBound/Mother: Sans Flint
F-Zero: Blood Falcon
Ice Climbers: Polar Bear
Fire Emblem: Frederick or Tiki would be pretty cool.
Game & Watch: N/A
Kid Icarus: Hades (though I'd prefer him to be playable...)
WarioWare: Either 9-Volt or Jimmy T.
Robot: Someone from Gyromite I suppose
Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
Wii Fit: N/A
Punch-Out: Soda Popinski
Mii: Gold Bone
Xenoblade: Ardanian Soldiers
Duck Hunt: N/A
Metal Gear: Psycho Mantis
Sonic: I know you already said there's Knuckles, but I think Heavy Gunner and Infinite would be pretty cool assist trophies.
Mega Man: Dr. Wily
Pac-Man: Either Ms. Pac-Man or Golvis
Street Fighter: Guile
Final Fantasy: Tifa
SEGA (Other): Either Selvaria Bles (Valkyria Chronicles) or Vyse (Skies of Arcadia)
Capcom (Other): Phoenix Wright (if he's not playable)
Bandai Namco (Other): Either Dig Dug or Mappy
Square Enix (Other): IDK, maybe someone from Bravely Default or Octopath Traveler?

(Added other third-party assists since I saw some replies doing that.)

 

[KMDP]

Honestly, Cloud was this for me.

I was only familiar with him through Kingdom Hearts as I hadn't ever played Final Fantasy before, but I knew of the significance of the specific game he came from. I never expected to see him in Smash, but after he was added in I gave him a go and found him really fun to play. I normally try to main characters from games I like, but Cloud was probably the first time I'd mained someone from a game I haven't even played. I later got Final Fantasy VII on Steam because I'm a weirdo who always wants to check out all of the source material in crossover games.

I was introduced to Final Fantasy VII by a friend, though I had been interested in it for a while before that (mostly because of LegendaryFrog, if anyone remembers who that is anymore. XD), I ended up borrowing his copy, and ended up buying a copy for myself shortly thereafter.

Something I'm not exactly proud of is that my Dad and I accidentally cracked his Disc 1 in an attempt to clean it (it was covered in smudges and hairline scratches). Fortunately he had previously told me he had two copies of the game (why? I don't know), so I hope he didn't mind, because I never actually told him. >_>

Final Fantasy: Tifa

Mah man! (Playable Tifa is superior though)

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I don't think that's really a problem, Smash 4 Yoshi has had plenty of good players main him over the course of it's history (Also, as of the last Japan power ranking, the 9th highest ranked player in all of Japan (Ron) mains Yoshi alongside Mario and Luigi), I don't think he really has a numbers problem or a lack of good players.

Spoiler: Copy-pasted from the wiki

Notable players[edit]
Active[edit]

• DIO - Placed 9th at Hyper Sumabato, 7th at Sumabato 13, and 5th at Sumabato 14.
• Dr. Robotnik - Placed 5th at North West Regionals, the Opening Major DEC 2014, 33rd at Don't Park on the Grass, 1st in over 2 dozen region events Eastern Washington, alternating 1st-5th on region PR since 2014 Eastern Washington.
• Firefly - Placed 5th at PAX Prime 2015, 1st at a few local tournaments in doubles play, 9th at Northwest Majors VIII, and 25th at Don't Park on the Grass. Ranked 12th on the British Columbia Power Rankings.
• JFK - Placed 25th at Low Tier City 4 and 49th at GameTyrant Expo 2017. Formerly ranked 3rd on the Colorado Power Rankings.
• Kamikaze - The best Yoshi player in Georgia. Placed 33rd at Super Smash Con 2016, UGC Smash Open, and MomoCon 2017, and 1st at a few local tournaments in doubles play. Formerly ranked 12th on the Georgia Power Rankings. He has wins over Hyper Kirby and ItsSonic.
• Nikes - Placed 17th at Battle Arena Melbourne 7, 3rd at Southern Cross Championship 2K15, 9th at Battle Arena Melbourne 8, and 25th at SXC 2K16. Ranked 4th on the South Australia Power Rankings.
• Poltergust - Placed 13th at Paragon Orlando 2015, 17th at CEO 2015, 49th at Paragon Los Angeles 2015, 13th at Smash the Record 2015, and 33rd at Frame Perfect Series 2. Ranked 10th on the Central Florida Power Rankings. He has a win over Earth.
• Raptor - Placed 9th at Super Smash Con 2015, 49th at GENESIS 3, 7th at GUMS 6, 17th at Pound 2016, 13th at Apex 2016, 5th at Glitch 2, and has achieved several top 10 placings at KTAR tournaments. Formerly ranked 9th on the New York City Power Rankings.
• Ron - Placed 2nd at Sumabato 12, 3rd at Hirosuma: Revolution, 2nd at Sumabato 17, and 1st at Sumabato 18. He has wins over Shuton and HIKARU.
• Seth - Placed 9th at Midwest Mayhem 3, 5, 7, and 8. Ranked 4th on the Chicago Power Rankings and 16th on the Midwest Power Rankings.
• Snoop - Placed 17th at 2GGT: FOW Saga, 25th at 2GGT: KTAR Saga, 49th at GENESIS 4, and 65th at 2GGC: Civil War. Ranked 3rd on the Las Vegas Power Rankings.
• Squerk - Placed 17th at Glitch 3, 65th at Super Smash Con 2016, and 65th at CEO Dreamland. Ranked 3rd on the South Virginia Power Rankings and 16th on the MD/VA Power Rankings. He has wins over WaDi, Mister Eric, and Remzi.
• Suarez - Placed 33rd at Overclocked II, 17th at KTAR XVI, and 13th at Collision XV. Has wins over players such as Frozen, John Numbers and DarkBlues. Formerly ranked 5th on the New York Power Rankings.
• Xeon - Placed 1st at First Attack 2016 in singles and doubles play, 1st at the majority of Puerto Rican tournaments in doubles play, and 17th at CEO 2016 in doubles play. Ranked 2nd on the Puerto Rico Power Rankings.

Inactive[edit]

• Barakas - One of the best Yoshi players in the world prior to his semi-retirement. Placed 49th at GENESIS 3, 9th at TGC 6, 13th at 2GGT: Mexico Saga, 49th at EVO 2016, and 49th at EVO 2017. Ranked 6th on the Texas Power Rankings.
• Sky - Placed 49th at Final Battle, Apex 2015, and EVO 2015. He has housed several top players during major SoCal tournaments.

I wouldn't really trust SmashWiki's "Notable Players" sections for Smash 4, those sections are very fluff-filled and full of players who aren't particularly exceptional to the character's history or are just big names who sometimes fool around with the character, and have been poorly vetted/managed by the wiki community. Like the aforementioned Ron is mostly a Mario player for example. Nonetheless Yoshi's problem certainly wasn't a lack of players, from my observance he always had a decently large amount of players, and the amount of Yoshi players I fought throughout Smash 4, whether it be in tournament, friendlies, or FG, is higher than average among characters. The bigger problem as explained in my prior post is that Yoshi simply had no one good enough with him to succeed at the top level, leading to him being nearly completely absent from spectators at major tournaments as no one playing him could ever make it deep enough in bracket. Now where along the line between Yoshi's players not being good enough and Yoshi not being good enough is debatable, though I think it's certainly some combination of both.

 

[Zinith]

The Wall's semi-retirement didn't exactly help much (he does still play occasionally)

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I wouldn't really trust SmashWiki's "Notable Players" sections for Smash 4, those sections are very fluff-filled and full of players who aren't particularly exceptional to the character's history or are just big names who sometimes fool around with the character, and have been poorly vetted/managed by the wiki community. Like the aforementioned Ron is mostly a Mario player for example. Nonetheless Yoshi's problem certainly wasn't a lack of players, from my observance he always had a decently large amount of players, and the amount of Yoshi players I fought throughout Smash 4, whether it be in tournament, friendlies, or FG, is higher than average among characters. The bigger problem as explained in my prior post is that Yoshi simply had no one good enough with him to succeed at the top level, leading to him being nearly completely absent from spectators at major tournaments. Now where along the line between Yoshi's players not being good enough and Yoshi not being good enough is debatable, though I think it's certainly some combination of both.

Yoshi lacks kill confirms; has no grab combos, and has a sub par neutral game. His grab is also bad but this is somewhat remedied by his command grab. Yoshi is much better on Wi-Fi. His theory is confirmed when you take into account of his results.

Also why do casual players insist on going on For Glory?? Its not fun stomping 7 people in a row unto the ground.

 

[Idon]

Yoshi lacks kill confirms; has no grab combos, and has a sub par neutral game. His grab is also bad but this is somewhat remedied by his command grab. Yoshi is much better on Wi-Fi. His theory is confirmed when you take into account of his results.

Also why do casual players insist on going on For Glory?? Its not fun stomping 7 people in a row unto the ground.

This is why we need an actual ranked system.

And not that stupid ass-backwards "Global Smash Power" think Sakurai wanted to push.

 

[Opossum]

Okay so since we're discussing tiers, here's an idea for fun

List your five characters that you'd like to see buffed and five you'd like to see nerfed

Buffed:

Nerfed:

I'll just do buffs for now.

: No longer being helpless after Jolt Haymaker is wonderful, as is the turnable Straight Lunge, but maybe some more general buffs. Mac deserves them.
: So few people played him in the demo that I don't even know if his grab was buffed...
: More buffs in general would be neat. I love Greninja.
: It won't happen, but having him be restored to having six Pikmin like in Brawl would be lovely.

: Buffed from Final Smash to playable fighter.

 

[Idon]

Okay so since we're discussing tiers, here's an idea for fun

List your five characters that you'd like to see buffed and five you'd like to see nerfed

Buffed:

Nerfed:

BOOF: :ultrobin
NORF:

Why are all my mains low-tier goddammit.