Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

but i don't know anything else that perfectly encapsulates the the possibility of Shadow being an echo in one phrase.

TWO Spindashes and a Spring for Shadow with No Chaos abilities is crime god DAMn

It's not a crime. It's just how Shadow... plays in Adventure 2 directly. The Chaos Spear thing isn't just multiplayer, but it's a move that only a computer can use otherwise and isn't available in canon for any regular player.

Besides that, you're acting like he can't have Chaos Aesthetics for his moves. Or for his Final Smash. Those are Chaos abilities too. It's not just Chaos Spear, Chaos Control, and/or Chaos Blast(Burst), it's his ability to channel Chaos into his own hands much like a monk. He can do everything Sonic can do while still having a Chaos look. Look at Ganondorf. He has his darkness moves that fit his abilities without actually being unfaithful to his character either. It's not like he had a sword till after Melee in any canon game, so all he did was be physical and use magic. ...Just like Smash.

People can dislike Ganondorf's representation and previous movesets all they like, but it was still accurate at the time anyway. He didn't have all of the moves people wanted(there was zero reason to ask for a sword when he didn't even use one in OOT anyway), and that's fine. But he still fit who he is correctly.

Shadow can be an echo, clone, semi-clone, or even fairly unique and it would still be accurate to his canon game self anyway. He's been all of that to begin with. Actually, he's never been truly unique(maybe in Sonic Chronicles at best), but he's been a semi-clone in Sonic Battle, clearly being heavily modified from Sonic's style in many many ways.

 

[Noipoi]

Say it me, say it loud, and say it twice more even louder after that. Echoess are most likely being add as late consolation prizes that are easy for Sakurai to achieve and thus will not take up a majority of the newcomer roster. Sakurai only invented this term to make people more okay with the idea of their characters being what are virtually 1 for 1 clones. An easier sell if you will. This was not so he could add 8 echo newcomers and 3 unique newcomers. Echoes are not going to take up the newcomer roster. ECHOES ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE UP THE NEWCOMER ROSTER. I REPEAT....ECHOES. NOT. TAKE. UP. NEWCOMER. ROSTER.

...What in the holy hell is that gif?

 

[Deleted member]

"Only Alternative"

Wow, no hope for Shadow has his own fighter i see. not even considering the possiblity

Any hope for such a possibility has died after a decade has passed with the only thing to look forward to at most was an Assist Trophy role.
I'm not a blind optimist. The very fact Echoes exist as they are is the best shot I'm going to get.

 

[wildvine47]

What are the 7-10 newcomers to the base roster that would make the game PERFECT for you, with the first being “I absolutely NEED them” and the last one being “I could live if they weren’t added but they’d be cool to see regardless”? Counting Echoes, not counting potential DLC candidates who were too late for the base roster (like Rex & Pyra or an ARMS character)

For me:

1. Elma
2. Bandana Waddle Dee
3. Simon Belmont
4. Chorus Kids
5. Chrom
6. Dixie Kong
7. King K. Rool
8. Isabelle
9. Isaac
10. Lloyd Irving

For me there's only one more character this game needs to feel complete, and it's

1. King K. Rool

Ridley has always been my number 1 and K. Rool my number 2 since Melee. Getting them both all these years later would truly make this the perfect Smash Bros. for me. After him there's plenty of other characters I want, but there's a wide gap from K. Rool to the next in line. For completion's sake though, if we're going for absolute-perfection-level-Smash, I'd also want:

2. Dark Matter Blade
3. Scorpion
4. Impa
5. Dark Samus
6. Rayman
7. Banjo-Kazooie
8. Dixie Kong
9. Simon Belmont
10. Isaac

Honorable mentions go to Crash, Decidueye, Medusa, Andy and Chibi-Robo. If I got to 15 those guys would fill out the rest of my list.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

You know, this Shadow argument almost makes me vaguely curious if something similar would of happened with Daisy if they had instead waited to reveal her as an Echo for say... October when Super Mario Party releases. And instead they chose someone different as our first echo fighter (Maybe Dark Samus? Oh man the emotional whiplash Ridley fans would of gotten thinking at first Dark Samus would be all they're getting. But then ultra happy with 2 new Metroid reps in the same presentation).

Daisy had some obsessive fans that argued very much that she wouldn't be a peach clone if she was in Smash. (Though even most of said fans seem to be happy she's in despite being an echo anyway). I'm not saying Daisy and Shadow are in completely the same situations, as for one Daisy is 1st Party so Nintendo is a lot more free to do whatever they want with them. But I feel like it'd be at it's core pretty similar in terms of being brought up at random points in Echo fighter debates just like Shadow has been quite a bit lately. And they're both characters that were always kind of berserk buttons when it came to Smash discussions one way or another even prior to the existence of Echo Fighters.

I have no doubt that would have happened, Daisy fans were really defensive about the prospect of her being a Peach clone, and we would probably be getting posts like "TOADS and a Float for Daisy with no Sports abilities is crime god DAMn" if the Echo concept was revealed with someone else first, really it happens with fans of any character that could be remotely cloned; it also happened with Lucina and Dark Pit, with their fans very insistent they can do more (and still are), and the only talked about Echo candidate for Ultimate who I don't see it often for is Chrom (probably because his fans have accepted this is his only realistic path into Smash at this point and will just take it).

 

[Enchess]

What are the 7-10 newcomers to the base roster that would make the game PERFECT for you, with the first being “I absolutely NEED them” and the last one being “I could live if they weren’t added but they’d be cool to see regardless”?

1. K Rool
2. Isaac
3. Mio Amakura
4. Saki
5. Melia (will begrudgingly settle for Elma)
6. Dixie & Kiddy
7. Ridiculous joke character (Labo, Wii safety, etc)
8. Picross Mario (don't think about it too much)
9. Golden Diva (will settle for Ashley)
10. Lip (or Pushmo or Qbby. More puzzle reps)

 

[KMDP]

If he isn't gonna be added as a possible Echo for Ness, I'd like to see Ninten as a possible alt skin for him. It's kinda sad he's the only protag from the series not represented in any kind of way.

"I want Mother to have all three main Protagonists of the series playable."

Golden Sun fans: OTL

Mother, Nintendo's other "Traditional JRPG" besides Golden Sun, has 200% more playable character representation than Golden Sun. (Well, actually it's infinitely more representation, since GS has nobody!)

It's sort of like that meme that was posted about Mario and Pokémon having many characters, and people having laundry lists of other characters from Mario/Pokémon they want playable, and turning around and saying "Nah, Kirby is fine the way it is" with 3.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

...What in the holy hell is that gif?

Pure beauty. Pure grace.

Pure legend.

Her name is Cuca.

 

[EnthusedPanda]

Hey guys, I've got an off-topic question that I figured I'd just drop in here: how are you acquiring the game on release day (digital/retail/Amazon/etc)? Does anyone have any experience preordering games through Amazon? I want to play the game as early as possible, so I feel like the digital copy would be best, but I think I've heard stories of Amazon delivering games a day early at times.

 

[KMDP]

Pure beauty. Pure grace.

Pure legend.

Her name is Cuca.

Style Beauty? Grace? A funny face crocodile?

Obviously she's King K. Rool's wife!

 

[7NATOR]

It's not a crime. It's just how Shadow... plays in Adventure 2 directly. The Chaos Spear thing isn't just multiplayer, but it's a move that only a computer can use otherwise and isn't available in canon for any regular player.

Besides that, you're acting like he can't have Chaos Aesthetics for his moves. Or for his Final Smash. Those are Chaos abilities too. It's not just Chaos Spear, Chaos Control, and/or Chaos Blast(Burst), it's his ability to channel Chaos into his own hands much like a monk. He can do everything Sonic can do while still having a Chaos look. Look at Ganondorf. He has his darkness moves that fit his abilities without actually being unfaithful to his character either. It's not like he had a sword till after Melee in any canon game, so all he did was be physical and use magic. ...Just like Smash.

People can dislike Ganondorf's representation and previous movesets all they like, but it was still accurate at the time anyway. He didn't have all of the moves people wanted(there was zero reason to ask for a sword when he didn't even use one in OOT anyway), and that's fine. But he still fit who he is correctly.

Shadow can be an echo, clone, semi-clone, or even fairly unique and it would still be accurate to his canon game self anyway. He's been all of that to begin with. Actually, he's never been truly unique(maybe in Sonic Chronicles at best), but he's been a semi-clone in Sonic Battle, clearly being heavily modified from Sonic's style in many many ways.

but just focusing on one game though is ignoring all the other games that Shadow is defined by though

i get what your saying, but still, With Chaos abilities being a main focus of Shadow, having him use TWO SPindashes and a Spring just doesn't sit well. Hell, It doesn't even sit well with Sonic himself, Sonic has alot of moves that could replace one of the spindashes, yet he still stuck with TWO Spindashes, and it would be even more of a waste with Shadow because he has so much material to use. God Damn

Any hope for such a possibility has died after a decade has passed with the only thing to look forward to at most was an Assist Trophy role.
I'm not a blind optimist. The very fact Echoes exist as they are is the best shot I'm going to get.

Just because he was an Assist Trophy for 2 games doesn't mean hope for him being his own fighter has died. Shadow is still a relevant character today, His requests were still strong for him even after he was confirmed an assist trophy again in 4, he has the moveset to back up having a place in Smash

i know Echo fighter seems like the likely route to get Shadow in, but it's like selling your soul my dude. even if the route of him being his own fighter may look more bleak than echo (though i don't think so) the route is still there for him my dude

 

[TailsTheAssassin]

Hi, I'm new here. Just wanted to say that I want Tails, Ashley, Isabelle, Blaze, or Klonoa. (At least one of them) If none of them get in I will screech internally in eternal suffering.

 

[Noipoi]

Hi, I'm new here. Just wanted to say that I want Tails, Ashley, Isabelle, or Klonoa. (At least one of them) If none of them get in I will screech internally in eternal suffering.

Ashley
Isabelle
Tails
Good taste my friend, welcome to the boards.
Here's a tip, if people start discussing Shadow. LEAVE.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

but just focusing on one game though is ignoring all the other games that Shadow is defined by though

i get what your saying, but still, With Chaos abilities being a main focus of Shadow, having him use TWO SPindashes and a Spring just doesn't sit well. Hell, It doesn't even sit well with Sonic himself, Sonic has alot of moves that could replace one of the spindashes, yet he still stuck with TWO Spindashes, and it would be even more of a waste with Shadow because he has so much material to use. God Damn

It's a waste for him to be accurate to the games? If you say so.

Chaos Abilities are not "Chaos Blast" etc. Chaos Abilities are using Chaos any way he can. He's accurate either way. I don't see it because what you're saying is extreme hyperbole. Also, it's not two Spindashes. Spin Charge and Spin Dash, while similar are not the same thing. Honestly, what's really silly is how Sakurai refuses to switch out Sonic's Spin Dash or Spin Charge with another unique move. But it may not even be something he can do, as he still has to make sure Sega approves of the changes.

 

[blazefan519]

Hi, I'm new here. Just wanted to say that I want Tails, Ashley, Isabelle, or Klonoa. (At least one of them) If none of them get in I will screech internally in eternal suffering.

Hi! I'm fairly certain you're not alone kek

 

[KMDP]

Hi, I'm new here. Just wanted to say that I want Tails, Ashley, Isabelle, or Klonoa. (At least one of them) If none of them get in I will screech internally in eternal suffering.

Welcome to Insanity the boards!

We hope you enjoy the complementary gift basket of Neverending Echo Arguments and Infinite Leaks.

Hey guys, I've got an off-topic question that I figured I'd just drop in here: how are you acquiring the game on release day (digital/retail/Amazon/etc)? Does anyone have any experience preordering games through Amazon? I want to play the game as early as possible, so I feel like the digital copy would be best, but I think I've heard stories of Amazon delivering games a day early at times.

My plan is to buy it retail on the day of release.

I think Amazon has shipping plans that allow you to get things day of release for a small extra payment, though I think it falls under an Amazon Prime subscription nowadays.

 

[Deleted member]

but it's like selling your soul my dude

Then consider my soul sold.

If he manages to get in with a unique moveset despite my expectations, great.
But I will accept Echo status because it would mean he's still playable.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

"Generic anime swordsman" has got to be the most meaningless argument people can use against other characters, and I am sick and tired of seeing it brought up. Reminder that Ganondorf now uses a sword for some of his moves. Does that make him an "anime swordsman"? Sorry for bringing it up again, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.

 

[P.Kat]

I'll make sure to pack my bags. Have you got a Magic Carpet?

Yeah a three seater in case any wants to come along

The villain of Pokémon is the Pokémon Trainer themselves.

Capturing innocent creatures and stuffing them into small balls, then forcing them to engage in cockfights for monetary gain.

Truly, a monster.
I'm kidding, before anyone tries to correct me on Pokélore.

There's one villain in the shadows of the Pokémon world one who makes everyone look like a marshmallow in comparison.

Spoiler: Pure Unadulterated Evil

Togepi

She's the reason why Dragon types are so afraid of Fairy types, and why she can never be playable in Smash (oh the buckets of blood). You though Ridley was merciless? Answer me this; Does this look like the face of mercy? DOES IT?!

In this episode Togepi (not Misty's) used attract on Meowth, and Pikachu, and Croagunk and forced them to fly Ash, Team Rocket and friends in a Rocket to the furthermost reaches of the universe. Then the ship lost control and plunged back to earth The only reason why everyone's still alive (including herself)... was because she decided she had enough fun for that day and chose to save the ship; they manage to entertain her enough, that she decided to spare their lives (even if not sparing them meant her own death). EVIL, EVIL!

Are we not going to talk about the fact that one of these "leakers" actually said with a straight face that we would get My Little Pony characters in Smash Bros.

Seriously

What the hell

Actually I wouldn't mind if this was true I'd accept/main them.

Also, @MoonlitIllusion, you don't seem to be considering that Shadow, as a third party character, would be a Guest Fighter. It's incredibly disrespectful to SEGA, as well as Shadow as a character, to bring Shadow into a game where he could be unique and then just make him a low effort clone of Sonic.

And no matter what you say, SEGA would care how their characters are represented in a Crossover. This is just common sense.

Generally speaking, Shadow is only the same as Sonic in games where the mechanics are inherently limited as to what the characters can do (without being over/underpowered), Smash is not one of those games.

You do have a point. Meanwhile I just want Blaze, cause not only her Pyrokinesis keeps her from being an echo, but the fact that she fights like a gymnastic ballerina, and her spin attacks (Burst Dash) are horizontal instead of vertical like Sonic and Shadow, to keep with her ballerina fighting style(pirouettes). All of this makes her one of the best non-echo Sonic characters.

Her moves are really weird , she doesn't have any moves that make her cover ground easily other than Kracko which takes a while to set up, she feels pretty weak, barely any puzzles in her campaign and

Spoiler

The 02 and Miracle Matter remixes are huge letdowns for me

She feels like her only pull is nostalgia but literally every Dream Friend has been doing this. Doesn't help she came in with Daroach and Dark Meta Knight, who were ridiculous in their own ways and had lots of fun puzzles and secret themes

That is disappointing, and she was already facing heavy competition with other potential characters.

 

[Noipoi]

"Generic anime swordsman" has got to be the most meaningless argument people can use against other characters, and I am sick and tired of seeing it brought up. Reminder that Ganondorf now uses a sword for some of his moves. Does that make him an "anime swordsman"? Sorry for bringing it up again, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Yes.
Ganon is a bishie boy.

 

[Iridium]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...t9Fk2zmmSvcEH8rBy6GVAHEtQk/edit#gid=201489092

Meshima created a spreadsheet of frame data currently in SSBU. We all know this will change, but it is something we have now.

 

[Shadow Ops]

Yes.
Ganon is a bishie boy.

Wouldn't mind me having an anime Ganondorf

 

[Leehzart]

About the Heroes vs Villains thing, something I never see brought up is the URL for the logo.

https://www.smashbros.com/assets_v2/img/top/hero_title_en.png

The page source makes various mentions of "hero" as well. It may very well be a thing which would be really interesting to say the least.

Now that you mention it, the box art only has heroes on it. Maybe there would a reversible cover with villains. That would be cool.

 

[7NATOR]

It's a waste for him to be accurate to the games? If you say so.

Chaos Abilities are not "Chaos Blast" etc. Chaos Abilities are using Chaos any way he can. He's accurate either way. I don't see it because what you're saying is extreme hyperbole. Also, it's not two Spindashes. Spin Charge and Spin Dash, while similar are not the same thing. Honestly, what's really silly is how Sakurai refuses to switch out Sonic's Spin Dash or Spin Charge with another unique move. But it may not even be something he can do, as he still has to make sure Sega approves of the changes.

but to not have any of his trademark abilities like Chaos Blast, like Chaos Spear, Like Chaos Control is a travesty. i know Spin Charge and Spin dash are not the same, but they are so similiar its like they aren't even completely different moves

just adding darkness effect to his moves doesn't really capture the Chaos ability aspect of his character unlike putting some actual Chaos abilities in his moveset my dude.

That is an interesting way to look at why Sakurai can't replace on of the Spindashes though, didn't think of it. I don't know why Sega wouldnt approve though, especially since Sonic games are Boost formula now, and that Sonic still uses the light speed dash, which is more than just Spindashing and homing attacking.

 

[KMDP]

"Generic anime swordsman" has got to be the most meaningless argument people can use against other characters, and I am sick and tired of seeing it brought up. Reminder that Ganondorf now uses a sword for some of his moves. Does that make him an "anime swordsman"? Sorry for bringing it up again, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Yes. We all know how generic ultshulk:are. /s

Yeah a three seater in case any wants to come along

Great, because I need to go see the Mashed Potato Samurai to plead for our freedom from the endless Echo discussions.

You do have a point. Meanwhile I just want Blaze, cause not only her Pyrokinesis keeps her from being an echo, but the fact that she fights like a gymnastic ballerina, and her spin attacks (Burst Dash) are horizontal instead of vertical like Sonic and Shadow, to keep with her ballerina fighting style(pirouettes). All of this makes her one of the best non-echo Sonic characters.

Also, Blaze would bring music from Sonic Rush, don't forget that!

 

[TailsTheAssassin]

Good taste my friend, welcome to the boards.
Here's a tip, if people start discussing Shadow. LEAVE.

Thanks. And noted. lol

Welcome to Insanity the boards!

I've noticed.

 

[Apollo500]

What are the 7-10 newcomers to the base roster that would make the game PERFECT for you, with the first being “I absolutely NEED them” and the last one being “I could live if they weren’t added but they’d be cool to see regardless”? Counting Echoes, not counting potential DLC candidates who were too late for the base roster (like Rex & Pyra or an ARMS character)

For me:

1. Elma
2. Bandana Waddle Dee
3. Simon Belmont
4. Chorus Kids
5. Chrom
6. Dixie Kong
7. King K. Rool
8. Isabelle
9. Isaac
10. Lloyd Irving

1: Mimikyu. This is the big one for me. I don't absolutely NEED Mimikyu, because the roster's already ridiculously incredible as it is, and I don't think it's super likely, but golly gee I'd go absolutely hog wild with hype if Mimikyu made it in.
2: Erdrick. DQ representation would be beautiful.
3: Elma. I'll be annoyed if Rex gets in and she doesn't.
4: Dixie Kong because she deserves it already.
5: King K. Rool because of the above reason. I don't actively support either DK character, but I do think it's high time they got their chance already.
6: Bandana Waddle Dee. Super cute, a spear user at least, and more Kirby!
7: Simon Belmont. I think the character himself would be cool, but even cooler than that would be the no doubt gorgeous Castlevania stage and music selection, especially if there's Symphony of the Night stuff!
8: Isabelle. She's adorable and Animal Crossing has easily made enough of a name for itself to deserve another character.
9: Isaac. I may not be much of a fan of Golden Sun anymore, but it would be such a nostalgia trip to see him get in now of all times.
10: Monster Hunter. Supremely unlikely due to World, I think, and even if it did somehow happen it'd be more likely as DLC, but seeing what's possibly my favourite video game franchise of all time represented with more than a Mii Costume in Smash would be freakin' sweet.

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Phosphora

 

[blazefan519]

Yeah a three seater in case any wants to come along
You do have a point. Meanwhile I just want Blaze, cause not only her Pyrokinesis keeps her from being an echo, but the fact that she fights like a gymnastic ballerina, and her spin attacks (Burst Dash) are horizontal instead of vertical like Sonic and Shadow, to keep with her ballerina fighting style(pirouettes). All of this makes her one of the best non-echo Sonic characters.
.

As my name would imply, Blaze is my favorite Sonic character and I would legit die if she were added but I know that Tails, Shadow, and even Amy have a better chance of getting in then her. But a woman can dream.

 

[RouffWestie]

Alot of people care just about the character getting in, but also alot of people care about the quality of the character

A thing that adds to the charm of Shadow the Hedgehog is his Chaos abilities. They would make a good moveset and those abilities really seperate him from Sonic.

To have Shadow be a Carbon Copy of Sonic with TWO SPindashes and a Spring doesn't sit well with alot of people, including me. Sonic's moveset is already kind of shafted, since he has TWO SPindashes, and the Chance of Shadow also being Shafted with TWO SPindashes when he has So much more material to use is kinda grim.

I'm in the same boat. I never liked Shadow because he was an edgy amnesia Sonic with a deep dramatic past. He only grew on me when he started to show off the things that he could do on his own, and I only tolerate his unlikeable personality just because he has those cool abilities. My only interest in him being in Smash comes from my desire to see how these abilities could be translated into a full moveset. The only differences an echo can provide are the things I never liked about him in the first place, so I have no reason to advocate for him if that's all he can be.

 

[Questionmark222]

What are the 7-10 newcomers to the base roster that would make the game PERFECT for you, with the first being “I absolutely NEED them” and the last one being “I could live if they weren’t added but they’d be cool to see regardless”? Counting Echoes, not counting potential DLC candidates who were too late for the base roster (like Rex & Pyra or an ARMS character)

For me:

1. Elma
2. Bandana Waddle Dee
3. Simon Belmont
4. Chorus Kids
5. Chrom
6. Dixie Kong
7. King K. Rool
8. Isabelle
9. Isaac
10. Lloyd Irving

I'm just gonna be straight-up honest and say that just Rayman and King K. Rool would make SSBU's roster 100% perfect to me. At the moment it's at a solid 99% because everyone's back but I just need these two in order to hit that emotional sweet spot of mine and crank that satisfaction percentage up to three digits.

Other than that I'd be beyond thrilled if Skull Kid and/or Hades made it in. Lycanroc would be neat as well.

As for completely unreasonable wishes I would absolutely kill for a Rivals of Aether character (even though that is probably not happening in a trillion years), preferably Orcane.

Still dreaming about Cranky Kong tho. He's not on the same level as the others I mentioned in that post, but if anyone dares telling me that we don't need a cane wielder in Smash, than it's beyond me to convince you that you're acting blind. Just kidding for that, if you don't want him, I fully respect your opinion.

 

[KMDP]

Now that you mention it, the box art only has heroes on it. Maybe there would a reversible cover with villains. That would be cool.

Someone already explained this. The image is called "Hero_title_en" because it's a Hero Image (a large banner placed at the top of a web page, designed to be the first thing you see).

Nothing to do with a Hero/Villain theme.

 

[Noipoi]

Wouldn't mind me having an anime Ganondorf

Spoiler: Is that...

Is that a Shadman profile picture?

 

[blazefan519]

Now that you mention it, the box art only has heroes on it. Maybe there would a reversible cover with villains. That would be cool.

Wow nice catch, I never realized. Edit: Nevermind just a webpage thing kek

Also, Blaze would bring music from Sonic Rush, don't forget that!

Great even more reason I want her in.

 

[TailsTheAssassin]

You do have a point. Meanwhile I just want Blaze, cause not only her Pyrokinesis keeps her from being an echo, but the fact that she fights like a gymnastic ballerina, and her spin attacks (Burst Dash) are horizontal instead of vertical like Sonic and Shadow, to keep with her ballerina fighting style(pirouettes). All of this makes her one of the best non-echo Sonic characters.

How could I have forgotten about Blaze.... Let me add her to my list lmao.

 

[Deleted member]

Someone already explained this. The image is called "Hero_title_en" because it's a Hero Image (a large banner placed at the top of a web page, designed to be the first thing you see).

Nothing to do with a Hero/Villain theme.

Also, the full version of the boxart has most of the villains on it.

Spoiler

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

What are the 7-10 newcomers to the base roster that would make the game PERFECT for you, with the first being “I absolutely NEED them” and the last one being “I could live if they weren’t added but they’d be cool to see regardless”? Counting Echoes, not counting potential DLC candidates who were too late for the base roster (like Rex & Pyra or an ARMS character)

For me:

1. Elma
2. Bandana Waddle Dee
3. Simon Belmont
4. Chorus Kids
5. Chrom
6. Dixie Kong
7. King K. Rool
8. Isabelle
9. Isaac
10. Lloyd Irving

S - Tier:
1. Sora

A-Tier:
2. Simon Belmont
3. Joker
4. Lloyd Irving/Yuri Lowell
5. Dixie Kong & Kiddy Kong
6. Geno
7. Elma/Rex & Pyra

B-Tier:
7. Banjo & Kazooie
8. Rayman
9. Ashley
10. King K. Rool

I'm already happy enough with the game, so I don't really need any of these characters, but they'd certainly seal the deal.

 

[Shadow Ops]

Spoiler: Is that...

Is that a Shadman profile picture?

Its the only good Shadow Ops art out there so far. No lies

 

[PeridotGX]

What are the 7-10 newcomers to the base roster that would make the game PERFECT for you, with the first being “I absolutely NEED them” and the last one being “I could live if they weren’t added but they’d be cool to see regardless”? Counting Echoes, not counting potential DLC candidates who were too late for the base roster (like Rex & Pyra or an ARMS character)

For me:

1. Elma
2. Bandana Waddle Dee
3. Simon Belmont
4. Chorus Kids
5. Chrom
6. Dixie Kong
7. King K. Rool
8. Isabelle
9. Isaac
10. Lloyd Irving

1. Kamek
2. Maxwell (Scribblenauts)
3. Bandana Dee
4. Marx
5. Decidueye
6. A new Johto Pokémon Trainer with Typhlosion, Ampharos, and Heracross
7. Ninten
8. Fawful
9. Octoling
10. K. Rool (Personally Indifferent, but I may as well make the fans happy).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

but to not have any of his trademark abilities like Chaos Blast, like Chaos Spear, Like Chaos Control is a travesty. i know Spin Charge and Spin dash are not the same, but they are so similiar its like they aren't even completely different moves

just adding darkness effect to his moves doesn't really capture the Chaos ability aspect of his character unlike putting some actual Chaos abilities in his moveset my dude.

That is an interesting way to look at why Sakurai can't replace on of the Spindashes though, didn't think of it. I don't know why Sega wouldnt approve though, especially since Sonic games are Boost formula now, and that Sonic still uses the light speed dash, which is more than just Spindashing and homing attacking.

Chaos Blast isn't a trademark ability to begin with. Chaos Spear is literally the only one other than Chaos Control that can be even remotely called that, and they don't even appear in all games. The reality is? His trademark abilities only show up sometimes. If they don't show up in Smash, which has a reasonable chance of happening? Too bad. It happens.

You're way overexxaggerating how important it is when it comes to making him playable. Of course there is nothing wrong with you preferring he's more unique. That's fair. When you pretend he has no chance to be a clone or play mostly like Sonic while still having his canon personality(which is what people love the most about him, not so much the Chaos abilities which aren't nearly as important as you make it), he'd still be accurate. The only thing that is consistent with Shadow is his personality. His abilities, other than always being based upon Sonic to some degree, are really inconsistent to begin with. No matter how he is in Smash, as long as he still does what he can actually do, he can't be inaccurate.

Again, you don't want him to be an Echo? That's is fine. It's fair. But the idea he can't be is extremely wrong because there's more than enough evidence to show the idea of him being an Echo is quite possible. You act like Sega would care when there's no good reason for them to as long as Shadow is remotely accurate. Now, if you want to use some of Sonic's bad moves as example(like his Down Tilt), you'd have a point. That might feel too out of character. Shadow playing generally like Sonic in itself is not the case and he does it in most of his canon and non-canon appearances.