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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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osby

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Let's say that Isabelle was put into the game and Vergeben was right. Would she be an echo or a brand new character?
I think she'll be high priority enough to warrant a unique moveset.
Also Isabelle really isn't anything like her boss, and Sakurai is getting more selective with clones.
I might be wrong, though.
 

osby

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You wouldn't know that from much Echo talk is going on. :laugh:
Jokes aside, I don't know how you can make a clone of Villager, he's pretty bizarre in terms of fighting style. That's why Alph stayed as an alt, probably, too.
 

Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
Let's say that Isabelle was put into the game and Vergeben was right. Would she be an echo or a brand new character?
While it is possible for her to be an echo, They'd be missing out on so much potential if they went down that road. She's a high profile character that outshines everyone in her series, I hope they'd at least go the extra mile for her.
 

AustarusIV

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I wonder if Isabelle fans will accept Ridley throwing her on Samus's ship then blowing it up.

If she's coming
Why wait? The fans are making fanart of it already. :p

There was a problem fetching the tweet

EDIT: Wait what, I was Greninja’d, lmao?
 
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Imadethistoseealeak

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Let's say that Isabelle was put into the game and Vergeben was right. Would she be an echo or a brand new character?
I'd say echo normally but hear this out. A lot of past leaks for past games were early in development or at least not the final product. Echoes, although we don't know for sure, are likely late additions. Vergeben didn't know about Daisy so my guess is he doesn't have info that stretches that far into development meaning if he's right about Isabelle she might be a unique character.

I personally think she'd make most sense as an echo, but I'd rather her be unique and if Vergeben is right then she might be since it doesn't seem he knew about echoes.

...wait he also didn't know everyone was returning which was probably the first thing decided for this game so that throws a wrench into that thinking. Well just some ideas lol.
 
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The Kirbyister

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would goku be a top tier or low tier?
if goku was in ultimate
i think mid tier because if he gets in the game and is top tier, he would get nerfed to high-mid tier
 
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KMDP

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would goku be a top tier or low tier?
if goku was in ultimate
It depends on how he plays, though that's obvious.

If he were to play anything like he does in FighterZ, he'd definitely be high tier.

"Why?" You ask? Because he'd be just like Ryu, only way faster, with more aerial and range options and the Kamehameha, his equivalent of the Hadoken, would be a beam rather than a specific shot, making it harder to dodge (not to mention the Kamehameha is inherently faster than the Hadoken).
 
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D

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...Didn't Verge say he was done? I guess the fun never ends with Smash leaks, lol. Why say he was done if he's just gonna come back a week later and talk about it more...?

Isabelle is one of my more realistic wants for the roster, so I'd be down with it. I'll still be remaining cautious with this one, though, as I pretty much have a "never believe this ever" policy with text leaks. If Simon gets in, then I'll believe Verge's stuff, but until then, lots of other people were saying the exact same stuff he was before E3 (at least from what I remember. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
 

TMNTSSB4

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Top tier. He'd made Cloud look hard to master.
And that’s saying something considering it’s Smash 4 Cloud
It depends on how he plays, though that's obvious.

If he were to play anything like he does in FighterZ, he'd definitely be high tier.

"Why?" You ask? Because he'd be just like Ryu, only way faster, with more aerial and range options and the Kamehameha, his equivalent of the Hadoken, would be a beam rather than a specific shot, making it harder to dodge (not to mention the Kamehameha is inherently faster than the Hadoken).
And he’d have way too many transformations and be the opposite of Lucario
 

Omega Tyrant

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Also Dedede's back aerial having a lot less endlag means it's safe on shield. Which means... he actually has a neutral!
Dedede's bair was actually already safe on shield in Smash 4, problem was his only other safe-on-shield move was...f-smash, so for safely poking at his opponents his only option was just repeatedly throwing out the slow-on-startup bair.

He's ****ty at vetting. That's his issue.

https://www.reddit.com/r/salty/comments/83tfly/rumor_jojos_bizarre_adventure_fighting_game_in/
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76403748

These being his most obvious. His history is not something that instills confidence. As for Base Goku and Base Vegeta, that's a 50/50 thing since it's not an outlandish claim.
With the latter link Vergeben himself came out and admitted it was wrong before any information came out disconfirming it (doing so when he made the thread about the Ridley/ICs/Belmont/no cuts happening), admitting he had a bad source he didn't vet properly. It's possible he learned to vet his sources better after getting burned so many times (though we'll have to wait and see if that is case with his Smash leaks).
 

BluePikmin11

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Let's say that Isabelle was put into the game and Vergeben was right. Would she be an echo or a brand new character?
A completely unique character.

Note Sakurai's statement about non-combatants way back in a Kotaku Smash 4 interview:

“An important thing is that the characters stand out from one another—for instance, we might wanna be able to take characters that aren't typically combat-based characters. So you might have a sword-based character, but other characters are not necessarily going to [have swords]. You're not gonna wanna focus on that sort of element, just so there's a distinction between all of the other combat-based characters.

They have to have something really unique that makes them stand apart from other characters in the game, and not limit yourself to characters that are just combat-based.”

And note how Sakurai researches deeply into gameplay step-by-step to find distinct traits of a character:

“The first thing is to take an idea. For example, imagine a game and character within that game. Take a character such as the villager in Animal Crossing. The next process is think about that character's role in their game and then the structure of the game we're making. How do those work together with each other? What kind of interesting things can you do within the structure of the game? And then if you were to actually implement that character, how would the end result be, how it works with other elements of the game?”

The thorough research Sakurai does to find a character's potential even in non-combatant Nintendo franchises makes me confident that he will find solid moveset potential in Isabelle. Isabelle provides a plethora of moveset potential, when connecting the new gameplay mechanics/features of New Leaf with the character not covered by Villager. Whereas Villager uses a set of tools and items a player can utilize in Animal Crossing (Axe, shovel, Pocket, slingshot, etc.), Isabelle would use Public Works Projects and possibly town laws to make her playstyle/moveset standout. Finding her potential would not be a difficult task.
 

MamaLuigi123456

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Alright I have to ask, is anyone here legitimately disappointed Daisy is now in Smash? Because I'm seeing a lot less hate against her than I thought I would.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I'd say echo normally but hear this out. A lot of past leaks for past games were early in development or at least not the final product. Echoes, although we don't know for sure, are likely late additions. Vergeben didn't know about Daisy so my guess is he doesn't have info that stretches that far into development meaning if he's right about Isabelle she might be a unique character.

I personally think she'd make most sense as an echo, but I'd rather her be unique and if Vergeben is right then she might be since it doesn't seem he knew about echoes.

...wait he also didn't know everyone was returning which was probably the first thing decided for this game so that throws a wrench into that thinking. Well just some ideas lol.
Well, his source didn't. Considering Sakurai actually ports the previous game over to start work, this would have to be very early in development. The source only knowing the Smash 4 roster is in makes some sense. It also means Ridley and Snake were started on early too. Daisy being last minute makes a ton of sense like other Echoes and generally other Clones in previous games. The source's information holds up with how development has worked.

Still possible they're lying, of course. Though in this case, it might be less so Verg's fault here. And yeah, Isabelle wouldn't be an Echo if it's the same source that gave him information on Simon(though I still think she'll be an AT, as it fits who she is better, but it's not like I can't be wrong, heh). Besides that, Snake and Ridley weren't even "safe bets" for a good chunk of people due to what happened during Smash 4.

The odd part is Verg is untrustworthy on his own, but his source is too hard to say. With how development works, there's a ton of factors to consider. They might be legit and just outdated. Or they simply could've been lying and made assumptions. Both are absolutely possible. Much like Vaanrose, I'm still waiting for that Castlevania compilation, as the lack of that is honestly the only ting hurting the source at this time. There was no way we'd get the entire roster this early on, so it makes sense to wait to reveal Simon. e3 already had a massive character set to show off, and considering all the videos were put on the site super early, it actually made the fact we get useless updates about those showcase videos kind of annoying. It seems more like Sakurai at one point intended to not update the site like that and just give us character returning videos(essentially) over time to build it up to more newcomers.
 

KMDP

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And that’s saying something considering it’s Smash 4 Cloud

And he’d have way too many transformations and be the opposite of Lucario
Make his Down B "Power Up", if you do it long enough, Goku transforms.
Power Up enough and Goku, like Gohan in FighterZ, gets a "Reverse Beat" mechanic (or whatever the equivalent would be in Smash), just as a huge "f you" to the meta.
OK, but would Goku stop the match for 10 minutes when he transforms?

Powering up in FighterZ does freeze the timer. XD
 
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blazefan519

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Hoo boy looks like I missed some Verg debates while I was asleep lol. Guess I'll offer my two bits and say that until Simon gets confirmed I'm taking what he's saying with a grain of salt.
 

DJ3DS

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Alright I have to ask, is anyone here legitimately disappointed Daisy is now in Smash? Because I'm seeing a lot less hate against her than I thought I would.
Not really.

I have always thought Daisy would work as a Peach skin. She's now basically that.

I'd be disappointed if they spent the time making her a "muh Mario spin off rep", but here we are.
 

Megadoomer

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would goku be a top tier or low tier?
if goku was in ultimate
i think mid tier because if he gets in the game and is top tier, he would get nerfed to high-mid tier
If he played anything like he did in Jump Ultimate Stars, then low tier. He seemed REALLY underpowered in that game.
 
D

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Alright I have to ask, is anyone here legitimately disappointed Daisy is now in Smash? Because I'm seeing a lot less hate against her than I thought I would.
Not really.

I have always thought Daisy would work as a Peach skin. She's now basically that.

I'd be disappointed if they spent the time making her a "muh Mario spin off rep", but here we are.
Exactly this. I don't like Daisy as a character, but she's basically a glorified alt costume, and that doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'd have liked it more if Alph was promoted so that Olimar could've potentially got his dark helmet color from Brawl back, but it wouldn't really make much of a difference, and it's not Daisy's fault.
 
D

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Alright I have to ask, is anyone here legitimately disappointed Daisy is now in Smash? Because I'm seeing a lot less hate against her than I thought I would.
Seeing as how she's an Echo Fighter that more than likely took very few resources to create and her not being in would not have meant another character because of that, yeah, I'm alright with Daisy. I personally don't care for her, but I'm happy for those who wanted her. :)
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Alright I have to ask, is anyone here legitimately disappointed Daisy is now in Smash? Because I'm seeing a lot less hate against her than I thought I would.
I'd have liked her to have more unique properties, due to other games, but I'm fine with it. At least she looks right, compared to the mediocre costume Peach had. That was my biggest issue with the Daisy costume after Melee, which was at least remotely accurate at the time.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Alright I have to ask, is anyone here legitimately disappointed Daisy is now in Smash? Because I'm seeing a lot less hate against her than I thought I would.
Not at all. In fact, I'm glad she's in, so now not only can people focus on supporting Mario characters that aren't in yet, I can have proper match-ups between her, Luigi, Mario and Peach.
 
D

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I'd have liked her to have more unique properties, due to other games, but I'm fine with it. At least she looks right, compared to the mediocre costume Peach had. That was my biggest issue with the Daisy costume after Melee, which was at least remotely accurate at the time.
I'm really hoping one of Daisy's colors gives her tanned skin and a pink crown.
 

The Kirbyister

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I'd have liked her to have more unique properties, due to other games, but I'm fine with it. At least she looks right, compared to the mediocre costume Peach had. That was my biggest issue with the Daisy costume after Melee, which was at least remotely accurate at the time.
if i could change a thing about daisy it would be the turnips size. the size would change for the damage like the bigger turnip get a bigger hit box with less damage and the smaller turnip as a smaller hit box but more damage.
like lets say normal turnips do 10% the big one does 5% and the small one does 15% maybe
 
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