Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mc.Rad]

I just need news please...

please sakurai my children and I are starving

 

[The Kirbyister]

I just need news please...

please sakurai my children and I are starving

Spoiler

i hope smash ultimate new is at Evo Btw not a spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

I just need news please...

please sakurai my children and I are starving

You will get your weekly serving of soup music on Tuesday.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Relevant:

This kind of stuff is what makes Smash so much fun imo, if anyone takes offense they really need to loosen up.

Considering that Isabelle's role in the Animal Crossing series is to assist the player, the best way to reference that is the Assist Trophy position. I really don't see that changing, despite Isabelle not appearing in Smash Ultimate's E3 build.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Also didn’t Vergeben say he wasn’t gonna leak any more following Sakurai’s statement?

 

[KMDP]

Make his Down B "Power Up", if you do it long enough, Goku transforms.
Power Up enough and Goku, like Gohan in FighterZ, gets a "Reverse Beat" mechanic (or whatever the equivalent would be in Smash), just as a huge "f you" to the meta.

I was thinking "Hmm, what would be the equivalent of "Reverse Beat" in Smash.

For those unaware (i.e. the people who don't play Fighting Games other than Smash), "Reverse Beat" is a mechanic in fighting games where you can use Light Attacks after heavier attacks (normally attack strings go L > M > H and you cannot break from this).

Smash doesn't really have that kind of thing, having only two attack buttons. The closest thing would be... well, kind of broken:

Imagine, if you will, a character able to cancel their attacks into other attacks, so long as the enemy has not yet flown off.
You could hit them with a Smash Attack, then charge another Smash Attack during the zoom in/slow down in 1v1 matches, then another, and another.

Oh... oh god, what have I created?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Alright I have to ask, is anyone here legitimately disappointed Daisy is now in Smash? Because I'm seeing a lot less hate against her than I thought I would.

I'm more surprised than disappointed about Daisy's inclusion. She's primarily a spin-off only character, much like with Waluigi. But I guess having a similar body frame as Peach made it easy for the developers to make Daisy Peach's Echo Fighter.

 

[The Kirbyister]

I was thinking "Hmm, what would be the equivalent of "Reverse Beat" in Smash.

For those unaware (i.e. the people who don't play Fighting Games other than Smash), "Reverse Beat" is a mechanic in fighting games where you can use Light Attacks after heavy attacks (normally attack strings go L > M > H and you cannot break from this).

Smash doesn't really have that kind of thing, having only two attack buttons. The closest thing would be... well, kind of broken:

Imagine, if you will, a character able to cancel their attacks into other attacks, so long as the enemy has not yet flown off.
You could hit them with a Smash Attack, then charge another Smash Attack during the zoom in/slow down in 1v1 matches, then another, and another.

Oh... oh god, what have I created?

wasn't rage basically Reverse Beat?

 

[KMDP]

wasn't rage basically Reverse Beat?

Rage increases the amount of knockback your attacks deal to enemies. So, I don't think so.

 

[Will]

I just need news please...

please sakurai my children and I are starving

You waited out almost two months now, you can wait another five.

 

[The Kirbyister]

Rage increases the amount of knockback your attacks deal to enemies. So, I don't think so.

oh, thanks for explaining

 

[Opossum]

Considering that Isabelle's role in the Animal Crossing series is to assist the player, the best way to reference that is the Assist Trophy position. I really don't see that changing, despite Isabelle not appearing in Smash Ultimate's E3 build.

And Diddy Kong and Yoshi are glorified powerups for Donkey Kong and Mario in many of their canonical games. Your reasoning makes no sense.

 

[Crooked Crow]

And Diddy Kong and Yoshi are glorified powerups for Donkey Kong and Mario in many of their canonical games. Your reasoning makes no sense.

Diddy Kong Racing.

Yoshi's Story / Yoshi's Island. What does Daisy have?

 

[Will]

And Diddy Kong and Yoshi are glorified powerups for Donkey Kong and Mario in many of their canonical games. Your reasoning makes no sense.

Neither did that comment, because Diddy Kong and Yoshi got their own games.

Diddy Kong Racing.

Yoshi's Story / Yoshi's Island. What does Daisy have?

 

[Opossum]

Neither did that comment, because Diddy Kong and Yoshi got their own games.

And so did Isabelle. She's the face of Happy Home Designer, Amiibo Festival, and Pocket Camp.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

And Diddy Kong and Yoshi are glorified powerups for Donkey Kong and Mario in many of their canonical games. Your reasoning makes no sense.

I mostly agree with this, but to be fair Yoshi and Diddy Kong have their own games they star in where they aren't glorified power ups obviously. Isabelle doesn't have that and has always been an assistant. Though I don't believe that's a completely valid reason to justify not being a fighter.

Edit: Greninja'd

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I'm more surprised than disappointed about Daisy's inclusion. She's primarily a spin-off only character, much like with Waluigi. But I guess having a similar body frame as Peach made it easy for the developers to make Daisy Peach's Echo Fighter.

Except the only difference between the two is that Daisy appeared in a main title game while Waluigi haven't. That gives Daisy an significant advantage knowing that her appearance in a main game helps. Hell, she's even showing up in Super Mario Run which is helpful

Also didn’t Vergeben say he wasn’t gonna leak any more following Sakurai’s statement?

Well this is new. Where did you get this info from?

 

[Crooked Crow]

Neither did that comment, because Diddy Kong and Yoshi got their own games.

Still not her own game. Daisy doesn't even get her own board map, unlike Waluigi.

 

[MainJPW]

Also didn’t Vergeben say he wasn’t gonna leak any more following Sakurai’s statement?

Did he? This is the closest thing I remember him saying.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76820031?jumpto=13#13

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

And Diddy Kong and Yoshi are glorified powerups for Donkey Kong and Mario in many of their canonical games. Your reasoning makes no sense.

While I agree that Isabelle doesn’t have to be an assist trophy, I think Zelda would have been a better example for your point. Yoshi and Diddy have their own games where they’re independent playable characters. Zelda’s role in the Zelda series is to assist Link in defeating Ganon/dorf, but her role as a supporting character didn’t stop her from getting in melee.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And Diddy Kong and Yoshi are glorified powerups for Donkey Kong and Mario in many of their canonical games. Your reasoning makes no sense.

You can play as Diddy Kong in the very first Donkey Kong Country though.

 

[osby]

You can play as Diddy Kong in the very first Donkey Kong Country though.

Would Rosalina and Luma be better comparisons?

 

[blazefan519]

Still not her own game. Daisy doesn't even get her own board map, unlike Waluigi.

And we have this argument again. Bowser Jr and Rosalina also didn't have their own games but because they appeared in a main line Mario game was enough to suffice their inclusion, just like how it is with Daisy.

 

[WertQuadNine]

If Vergeben has reliable info I really hope he doesn't leak the entire roster. Right now everyone enjoys discussing Simon and Isabelle, but the second he lists every new character that's coming the speculation and fun is over

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Neither did that comment, because Diddy Kong and Yoshi got their own games.

This isn't really helping your argument there for Daisy. Daisy got Super Mario Land where she was the damsel in distress...and that's about it minus spinoffs and sports titles

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Diddy Kong and Yoshi still battled within their own series and games. Even Zelda did. Isabelle has never fought at all. Her Assist Role is pacifist-based, not fighter-based.

That's why the analogy fails hard. Isabelle is not a fighter by personality. She never was. She could still get into Smash, but no Smash character currently has a personality that implies that would never legit battle someone at all. Either they lack enough of a defining personality to avoid that or would battle within their own series just fine. This cannot be applied to Isabelle. She perfectly fits the AT role due to this, as it fits who she is significantly better.

Not that she can't be an interesting character(especially if she's not an Echo), but there's enough of a good reason to keep her as an AT as well. Both are valid ideas for her.

 

[Crooked Crow]

And we have this argument again. Bowser Jr and Rosalina also didn't have their own games but because they appeared in a main line Mario game was enough to suffice their inclusion, just like how it is with Daisy.

I don't have any issues with Daisy being included, that was just a bad comparison to make, Waluigi got his own board map, had tons of flair and personality, and still hasn't been included. So it boils down to Daisy being easy to add.

Rosalina and Bowser Jr. are also not clones.

 

[Opossum]

That's why the analogy fails hard. Isabelle is not a fighter by personality. She never was. She could still get into Smash, but no Smash character currently has a personality that implies that would never legit battle someone at all. Either they lack enough of a defining personality to avoid that or would battle within their own series just fine. This cannot be applied to Isabelle. She perfectly fits the AT role due to this, as it fits who she is significantly better.

Not that she can't be an interesting character(especially if she's not an Echo), but there's enough of a good reason to keep her as an AT as well. Both are valid ideas for her.

Literally everything you said here can be applied to Rosalina.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Except the only difference between the two is that Daisy appeared in a main title game while Waluigi haven't. That gives Daisy an significant advantage knowing that her appearance in a main game helps. Hell, she's even showing up in Super Mario Run which is helpful

Super Mario Land was pretty much Daisy's only real saving grace. But even then, she never really did anything in that game, except get kidnapped.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

And so did Isabelle. She's the face of Happy Home Designer, Amiibo Festival, and Pocket Camp.

Yes, but Diddy Kong and Yoshi were the main playable characters in their games. You can consider Isabelle the star of those games but in HH Designer and Pocket Camp she's still there to just assist the player. She's only playable in amiibo festival alongside numerous other characters in a party game.

 

[blazefan519]

I don't have any issues with Daisy being included, that was just a bad comparison to make, Waluigi got his own board map, had tons of flair and personality, and still hasn't gotten included. So it boils down to Daisy being easy to add.

Rosalina and Bowser Jr. are also not clones.

Waluigi got his own board map but still not in a main line game so the argument is moot. Daisy has personality too, all Mario characters do and if that was a reason to add a character in Smash then we might as well add every character who has even the smallest bit of personality because origin and importance don't matter anymore, amirite?

Super Mario Land was pretty much Daisy's only real saving grace. But even then, she never really did anything in that game, except get kidnapped.

It should be known that Super Mario Run is also a Main Line Mario game in where Daisy is playable in. So that's two over Waluigi's whopping 0.

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Sorry 2 late here's 2B

Hope you like it!

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Literally everything you said here can be applied to Rosalina.

That may be due to her wanting to protect the Galaxy though. Plus she summons Luma to do some of the fighting so that may help part of her character's background

Diddy Kong and Yoshi still battled within their own series and games. Even Zelda did. Isabelle has never fought at all. Her Assist Role is pacifist-based, not fighter-based.

That's why the analogy fails hard. Isabelle is not a fighter by personality. She never was. She could still get into Smash, but no Smash character currently has a personality that implies that would never legit battle someone at all. Either they lack enough of a defining personality to avoid that or would battle within their own series just fine. This cannot be applied to Isabelle. She perfectly fits the AT role due to this, as it fits who she is significantly better.

Not that she can't be an interesting character(especially if she's not an Echo), but there's enough of a good reason to keep her as an AT as well. Both are valid ideas for her.

Doesn't that same thing somewhat applies to Villager? He's not a fighter by default yet he's in Smash

I'm waiting for Isabelle to have a trailer where someone hits her or nearly hits her and all of a sudden, she goes all berserk and starts attacking people...or someone hurting Villager and she has enough of it knowing how he joined Smash

 

[Will]

Geez this arguments moving so fast.

It's not that Isabelle "can't fight" or "isn't prominent enough" that I'd rather not have her. It's like with Breath of the Wild Zelda. She's more of a researcher, would rather do that than beat people up. I see the same thing in Isabelle, she's an aide. Would she rather try to kick ass or do your taxes or whatever?

Still not her own game. Daisy doesn't even get her own board map, unlike Waluigi.

This isn't really helping your argument there for Daisy. Daisy got Super Mario Land where she was the damsel in distress...and that's about it minus spinoffs and sports titles

fellas dont take it so seriously
any time to link bowser getting pimp slapped is a good time in my book

 

[KMDP]

You can play as Diddy Kong in the very first Donkey Kong Country though.

Not only can you play as Diddy in DKC1, if you're good enough, you can play as Diddy exclusively the moment you get to the first DK barrel and never have to use DK again. You can't say that about Yoshi in SMW.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Guys, let's talk about characters who cannot fight and I have the perfect fighter


Goldeen

 

[osby]

You can say Ridley is better suited to be a boss or Little Mac might as well stay as an Assist Trophy.
In the end, it boils down to "would making them a fighter worth it?" In Isabelle's case, I'd say yes.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Literally everything you said here can be applied to Rosalina.

At what point has Roalina made it clear she would never ever battle someone? Where is her personality that implies that? I'm curios, because I don't remember that whatsoever. I just remember her telling an interesting story. I don't remember her explicitly refusing to battle.

Characters come in 3 categories; would battle, won't battle, doesn't really say either way. Isabelle falls under the 2nd category in her own games(no, I don't count cameos/playable in non-Animal Crossing games as they do not reflect anything she does in canon). From what I remember of Rosalina, she falls under the 3rd category "doesn't really say either way". Besides that, she does do stuff like that via the spin-offs, which unlike some series, the Mario spin-offs all happen according to MIyamoto. Meaning she would have no issues battling like the rest of the Mario cast. It's not clear if any member of the Mario cast was ever pacifistic due to the nature of the series having everyone as "actors" so to speak.

Doesn't that same thing somewhat applies to Villager? He's not a fighter by default yet he's in Smash

I'm waiting for Isabelle to have a trailer where someone hits her or nearly hits her and all of a sudden, she goes all berserk and starts attacking people...or someone hurting Villager and she has enough of it knowing how he joined Smash

Nope. Villager doesn't have a personality that says "I would never battle." He doesn't have one, period. He's a blank-slate character. Sakurai's statement was that series was too peaceful, not Villager himself. He changed his mind and applied a semi-violent personality to a blank slate character.

 

[WallyPalmer]

Would Rosalina and Luma be better comparisons?

Rosalina and Luma, I feel, Are a good comparison for a lot of characters. Bandana Waddle Dee being one of them. In both Return of the King and Mario Galaxy, BWD and Rosalina are important NPCs. They both became playable later on in mainline games, and now they’re both mainstays for their series. Of course, the Kirby franchise doesn’t have the star power of Mario for smash, but then again, Kirby could use more representation.

Super Mario Land was pretty much Daisy's only real saving grace. But even then, she never really did anything in that game, except get kidnapped.

I think you’re forgetting something crucial.

 

[blazefan519]

My stance on Isabelle and the case with any character that isn't seen as a "fighter" as long as their moveset reflects the character and their personality, they can fit right in.

Anways, has anyone here talked about the Loz18 guy at all or am I late?