Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

Shulk was pretty widely requested, though. I'm certainly not gonna complain he got in, considering he introduced me to one of my favourite games of all time!

Xenoblade is great. Actually, liked that about last game, it introduced me to so many good games.

 

[Apollo500]

Doesn't mean there aren't any people who would've preferred someone else, especially considering his "anime" design.
Shulk was the only character I really wanted for Smash 4, so I guess that's why that leak was real.

I supported him on behalf of one of my friends who was really, really eager to see him get in. Turns out it worked out well for me, too!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Didn't you know? Leaks are only true if they mention characters you like.

That's part of the reason why we never got Shulk, Dark Pit, and Duck Hunt in Smash 4.

Well, by that logic DaybreakHorizon only has three real leaks in the database. I think...if I didn't miss any.

Still, I did notice last round that I looked at it differently. If a leak included a character I liked, I thought it was fake, but nice that they acknowledged them. If it didn't...I got scared that that may have been the one. And the the ESRB leak happened, which was obviously the one, and left out Mewtwo, Ridley, K.Rool and Squirtle but included Dark Pit and some JRPG anime dude I've never even heard of. Ugh. Not gonna lie though, I did like DHD.

Been thinking a bit about Vergeben's title "Disregard ALL people claiming leaks that don't have these two characters...." on GameFAQs.

Let's say that what Verge is saying is true, which leaks had mentioned both Simon Belmont and Isabelle (other than Vergeben's?)

They're both common, I'll give you that. But I feel not all of the fake leaks can be killed straight off; some don't claim full roster. Even Vergeben never claims that he has the full roster.

On second thought, we should toss them all. They're all fake by default.

---

I'd expect Isabelle in due to her visibility in Nintendo recently. Simon still seems a bit wish fulfillment-y, but he makes sense. All of these seem safe. Ditto for K.Rool and Ashley - I wouldn't be surprised by any of these as well. Let's see Vergeben come out with an off-the-wall character and see how it works out. I'm still wishing upon every star that the Dragonborn will be in but I know that ain't gonna happen. I've adapted a headcanon of Simon and Dovahkiin going vampire slaying in some Draugr-infested Nordic Ruins and it's awesome.

 

[KMDP]

Actually, liked that about last game, it introduced me to so many good games.

Which is why Ultimate should have characters from classic games that need a notoriety push, like Isaac!

 

[Apollo500]

Which is why Ultimate should have characters from classic games that need a notoriety push, like Isaac!

I gave up hope on Isaac back in the Brawl days, but man, if he ever did get in somehow it'd be amazing. I don't like Golden Sun now as much as I used to, but it'd be a real blast from the past to see him get into Smash now of all times.

 

[P.Kat]

Uhhh there are some series that I'm not too familiar with so I'd probs have to go with some of the popular choices but here goes

Mario: Captain Toad
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
The Legend of Zelda: Impa
Metriod: Dark Samus
Yoshi: uhhhhhhh Kamek maybe?
Pokemon: Incineroar
Mother: Ninten
F-Zero: uhh not familiar with this one, I guess Black Shadow?
Ice Climbers: Pretty sure there's no one else to add
Fire Emblem: Alm/Celica
Kirby: Bandana Dee
G&W: Same as IC
Kid Icarus: Either Viridi or Medusa as an Echo
Wario: Ashley or Captain Syrup
Sonic: Shadow as an Echo
Pikmin: Louie as an Echo
R.O.B: Same as the other retro chars
Animal Crossing: Isabelle as an Echo
Wii Fit: nothing you could really add here
Super Punch Out: Any of the boxers could fit really
Pac Man: Mrs Pac Man as an Echo
Xenoblade: Elma and then Rex and Pyra as DLC later down the road
Duck Hunt: Same as the other retros
Bayonetta: Jeanne as an Echo
Splatoon: Octoling

Mario: Captain Toad
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
The Legend of Zelda: Impa
Metriod: Sylux
Yoshi: Poochy
Pokemon: Primarina
Star Fox: Krystal Fay
Mother: Ninten
F-Zero: Jody Summer
Ice Climbers: ?
Fire Emblem: Lyn Fjorm
Kirby: Adeleine
G&W: ?
Kid Icarus: Phosphora
Wario: Ashley
Sonic: Blaze the Cat
Pikmin: Louie
R.O.B: ?
Animal Crossing: Isabelle
Wii Fit: ?
Super Punch Out: Glass Joe
Pac Man: Mrs Pac Man
Xenoblade: Elma and then Rex and Pyra as DLC
Duck Hunt: ?
Bayonetta: Jeanne as an Echo
Splatoon: Octoling
Final Fantasy: Squall/Lightning/anyone with a Gunblade
Capcom: Amaterasu - Yes I know we have a lot of Capcom reps, just let me have my inky, watercolor, wolf, and put the pitchforks away.
SEGA: Yu Narukami from Persona 4
Square Enix: Sora
Konami: Simon
Namco: Ling Xiaoyu

Edit: forgot Star Fox smh.

I found the statement I think you're referring to. I also included some interesting tidbits about third parties as well. Here it is:


After reading this, I'm not so sure about us getting a lot of third parties. I'd specifically count out indie characters, as Sakurai seems to go for global appeal, which most indies lack, the only exception to this being Minecraft and possibly Shovel Knight considering how Nintendo is covering it in Japan. Travis Touchdown also has a chance as Sakurai and Suda51 are buddies, just like Sakurai and Kojima are. Mortal Kombat is a pipe dream as well because Japan doesn't like it at all.

Sakurai's statement about long-time gamers having all the characters they could want also might not bode well for Simon Belmont, but he says there might not be anyone else, so besides Simon I wouldn't expect anymore primarily retro third parties, except maybe Ryu Hayabusa (that's a hard maybe though) or Banjo & Kazooie, unless they're popular in Japan (I don't know if they are so don't quote me).

My only question is what are the remaining "the major globally-recognized franchises" that aren't represented in Smash?

I'd say that Kingdom Hearts is very likely one, considering it's worldwide popularity and the fact that it's had an Orchestra Tour for the last two years. Other than that, I don't know. There's definitely an argument for Crash Bandicoot and the Castlevania series as well. Series like Dragon Quest, Puyo Puyo, Tekken, Shin Megami Tensei/Persona, and Rayman (as he's being covered in Nintendo in Japan as well) could maybe be counted as well.

What third parties do you guys think are "globally-recognized" enough for Smash Bros?

Kingdom Hearts
Soul Caliber
Tekken
Persona
Rayman
Fate series
Touhou

What...?

Oh

OH MY ****ING GOD!!!!

KingIceSonic’s avatars are nothing compared to that

Ugh!!! I think that’s enough Internet for me today

???... Soooo... What did I miss?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

*AUX CALL PUSH SELECT*

Snake: Otacon, have I ever told you how much I hate monkeys? I only realized that a few minutes ago when I started fighting Diddy Kong...

Otacon: Is he really giving you that hard of a time? I mean you did fight him previously...

Snake: AGH! Stop jumping around all over the place! Get back here! He won't stop fooling around!

Otacon: I mean he is a chimpanzee, so he's obviously pretty agile and light, especially compared to you. And he's "fooling around" because that's what any other monkey would normally do.

Snake: So that's how you wanna be, huh? Bananas? Have some grapes instead! And don't forget to remove that stem at the top!

Otacon: Really, Snake? He's smart enough to know that your grenades aren't food! That is, unless you painted them purple or something...

I would think that Otacon would know that Diddy Kong isn't a chimpanzee.

 

[Deleted member]

Uhhh there are some series that I'm not too familiar with so I'd probs have to go with some of the popular choices but here goes

Mario: Captain Toad
Donkey Kong: Dixie
The Legend of Zelda: Impa
Metriod: Dark Samus
Yoshi: uhhhhhhh Kamek maybe?
Pokemon: Incineroar
Mother: Ninten
F-Zero: uhh not familiar with this one, I guess Black Shadow?
Ice Climbers: Pretty sure there's no one else to add
Fire Emblem: Alm/Celica
Kirby: Bandana Dee
G&W: Same as IC
Kid Icarus: Either Viridi or Medusa as an Echo
Wario: Ashley or Captain Syrup
Sonic: Shadow as an Echo
Pikmin: Louie as an Echo
R.O.B: Same as the other retro chars
Animal Crossing: Isabelle as an Echo
Wii Fit: nothing you could really add here
Super Punch Out: Any of the boxers could fit really
Pac Man: Mrs Pac Man as an Echo
Xenoblade: Elma and then Rex and Pyra as DLC later down the road
Duck Hunt: Same as the other retros
Bayonetta: Jeanne as an Echo
Splatoon: Octoling

I think you forgot Star Fox.

 

[Deleted member]

Which is why Ultimate should have characters from classic games that need a notoriety push, like Isaac!

Geolyte

 

[Pakky]

So Isabelle now huh?

Well okay, I can dig it, man that Mii Costume theory thing I brought up is looking cleaner and cleaner if this is true.

 

[BeardyBennett]

I would think that Otacon would know that Diddy Kong isn't a chimpanzee.

Maybe not. After all, this isn't like one of his Japanese animes. However, he for sure knows how love can bloom even on the battlefield.

 

[MainJPW]

Am I the only one who finds that Human Sonic kind of creepy looking? XD

Maybe it's the smile, he just reminds me of NiGHTS a bit. I'll still take that design over the stock Pixar Ratatouille human designs. Ummm... lol.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Mario: Captain Toad
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
The Legend of Zelda: Impa
Metriod: Sylux
Yoshi: Poochy
Pokemon: Primarina
Mother: Ninten
F-Zero: Jody Summer
Ice Climbers: ?
Fire Emblem: Lyn Fjorm
Kirby: Adeleine
G&W: ?
Kid Icarus: Phosphora
Wario: Ashley
Sonic: Blaze the Cat
Pikmin: Louie
R.O.B: ?
Animal Crossing: Isabelle
Wii Fit: ?
Super Punch Out: Glass Joe
Pac Man: Mrs Pac Man
Xenoblade: Elma and then Rex and Pyra as DLC
Duck Hunt: ?
Bayonetta: Jeanne as an Echo
Splatoon: Octoling
Final Fantasy: Squall/Lightning/anyone with a Gunblade
Capcom: Amaterasu - Yes I know we have a lot of Capcom reps, just let me have my inky, watercolor, wolf, and put the pitchforks away.
SEGA: Yu Narukami from Persona 4
Square Enix: Sora
Konami: Simon
Namco: Ling Xiaoyu

Kingdom Hearts
Soul Caliber
Tekken
Persona
Rayman
Fate series
Touhou

???... Soooo... What did I miss?

You missed something you should be happy about missing.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I don't really put much stock in Vegetable anyway. He's about as accurate as an average fortune teller that uses an 8-ball.

Does Wendy Witchcart count as a human? Are witches human?

Imagine her in Mania 2.


I agree. I think the best way to integrate humans into the games is to:

1. Do what Dragon Ball does and just have anthros and humans co-exist.
2. Design them to look more in line with the Anthros. Here's what I mean.

Look at Uekawa's human designs, he draws them using simple shapes and makes the proportions and design elements roughly in line with 1930s cartoons, like Sonic himself (and Eggman). Basically, these designs don't look out of place with the rest of the cast.

Spoiler

Look at Bantam, for example, he looks very similar in design to Eggman and Big due to his egg-like body shape and eyes:

Spoiler

Rolly Role looks very similar to Cream:

Spoiler

I'm 100% sure this is why people are so in love with Eggette/Omelette's design, her design perfectly incorporates that design philosophy, replicates that Oshima style really well and she would look perfect while standing next to the likes of Sonic and Tails:

Spoiler

It still beats how Mega Man X treats human presence; we're led to assume that the Earth still has humans, despite the fact that the only one we ever see onscreen is Dr. Cain, and even then he dies of old age between installments. As far as the games themselves are concerned, there's only Reploids and Mavericks around.

Also, for what it's worth, Wendy was turned into Ixis Naugus' sister in the Archie comics.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't really put much stock in Vegetable anyway. He's about as accurate as an average fortune teller that uses an 8-ball.

Will *insert popular character here* get in?

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Vergeben speaks again! Finally a leaker with some credit.

Also all ya'll saying Isabelle is a safe bet better not be the ones arguing yesterday she was a "pacifist". I'm tired of people disregarding leaks beacsue they were "safe bets" just like how Ridley was a safe bet -_-.

So Isabelle now huh?

Well okay, I can dig it, man that Mii Costume theory thing I brought up is looking cleaner and cleaner if this is true.

Eh the Mii Costumes theory is not really reliable now since Takamaru has fallen through.

EDIT: Also bless whoever pranked me! Another 30 days of the beautiful bright pink name!

 

[KMDP]

I don't really put much stock in Vegetable anyway.

"Stock in Vegetable?"
...

Spoiler

 

[RouffWestie]

Didn't you know? Leaks are only true if they mention characters you like.

That's part of the reason why we never got Shulk, Dark Pit, and Duck Hunt in Smash 4.

No, leaks are never true. Everything is either a safe bet, or a lucky guess, because it's impossible that anybody in the universe has some sort of access to the game's information.

 

[KMDP]

No, leaks are never true. Everything is either a safe bet, or a lucky guess, because it's impossible that anybody in the universe has some sort of access to the game's information.

No, no, no! Leaks are in a Quantum Superposition; they are simultaneously true and untrue until the game comes out and is observed by the players.

 

[Houndstooth]

If you've got time, be sure to check out the Sonic Boom cartoon; it's probably the single most self-deprecative thing to come out of the franchise. To give you an idea...

Wow. I didn't expect that at all. Love the part where Amy is speaking and Tails quietly coughs in the background. Good stuff there. May have to end up checking that out, though I was super against the design of Sonic and Knuckles when Boom was first announced.

Apparently there was discussion about Sonic that I missed? Might as well contribute to that 'cause why not.

My first exposure to Sonic was actually via the games Sonic Battle, Advance 3 and Heroes, along with Sonic X, I was like 6. It wasn't until high school when I actually got to play Adventure 1 and 2. Anyways, I'm still a huge fan nowadays, and I think I'm actually gonna do a full reread of the entire Archie Sonic comics sometime soon while waiting for Ultimate (yes, even despite all of the hot garbage that Ken Penders made and stuff in his run, as well as how the comics ended without a proper ending).

How did you like the Archie comics? I never got around to reading them, but I am thinking of picking up the IDW Sonic stuff. I loved what they have done with the TMNT, at least through the first 50 issues.

 

[Deleted member]

No, no, no! Leaks are in a Quantum Superposition; they are simultaneously true and untrue until the game comes out and is observed by the players.

Let's ask Schrödinger. He probably has the one true leak.

 

[Wyoming]

"Stock in Vegetable?"
...

Spoiler

My beets once told me Midna was going to be playable. Never trusting a vegetable again.

 

[Bowserlick]

Wonder if Isabelle will use a currency system (bells).

 

[BeardyBennett]

Let's ask Schrödinger. He probably has the one true leak.

Schrodinger's cat claws into action!

 

[KMDP]

Let's ask Schrödinger. He probably has the one true leak.

Sakurai's cat will have the answer!

Schrodinger's cat claws into action!

Fukurashi for Smash!

 

[BeardyBennett]

Wonder if Isabelle will use a currency system (bells).

Has to use bells in order to use specials. Once you run out, you have to fish off the side of the stage for hours in order to get more bells.

 

[Apollo500]

Wonder if Isabelle will use a currency system (bells).

I could see her swinging bell bags for her Uair and Dair instead of Villager's turnips.

 

[KMDP]

Has to use bells in order to use specials. Once you run out, you have to fish off the side of the stage for hours in order to get more bells.

If her number of bells exceeds a character's percentage, Isabelle can literally pay them to leave her alone.

 

[osby]

Sakurai's cat will have the answer!

Fukurashi for Smash!

No character is impossible! They are just improbable!

 

[Bowserlick]

- Isabelle hitting opponents could gain her bells.
• Her specials all have three stages.
• The first stage costs nothing, the second 10 and the third 20.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Hey wait a second.

Vergeben added Isabelle right?

https://www.inverse.com/article/46760-4chan-leak-reveals-11-new-super-smash-bros-ultimate-characters

Isn't she on this

but it's going to die in a couple of days though if there's no mini direct at the end of the month

 

[Opossum]

Hey wait a second.

Vergeben added Isabella right?

https://www.inverse.com/article/46760-4chan-leak-reveals-11-new-super-smash-bros-ultimate-characters

Isn't she on this

but it's going to die in a couple of days though if there's no mini direct at the end of the month

Isabelle. Not Isabella. It's an E, not an A.

 

[Pakky]

Vergeben speaks again! Finally a leaker with some credit.

Also all ya'll saying Isabelle is a safe bet better not be the ones arguing yesterday she was a "pacifist". I'm tired of peopoe disregarding leaks beacsue they were "safe bets" just like how Ridley was a safe bet -_-.

Eh the Mii Costumes theory is not really reliable now since Takamaru has fallen through.

EDIT: Also bless whoever pranked me! Another 30 days of the beautiful bright pink name!

Well, there was Knuckles too, I personally never said everyone who was a costume would be a character.

They were just a list of guys to consider highly.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Vergeben said Isabelle's coming?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Sakurai's cat will have the answer!

Fukurashi for Smash!

No character is impossible! They are just improbable!

Say, I thought of a neat scenario that should be drawn:

Sakurai has put several prospective characters into a box filled with Mii Fighters that have aggressive AI, whichever ones last the longest get considered for inclusion. A fan gets concerned about what happens to the poor characters that don't make it. Sakurai replies " they become assist trophies!".

 

[---]

Didn't you know? Leaks are only true if they mention characters you like.

That's part of the reason why we never got Shulk, Dark Pit, and Duck Hunt in Smash 4.

I'm starting to get confused. I always thought:

Wish List - What you personally want to be true.
Rumor - Baseless claims that might end up being true.
Leak - Rumors that have been proven true.

I agree that Vergeban seems to be fishing in that recent post. Isabelle is a rather unsafe claim, Animal Crossing is pretty well rep'd as is, but I don't have much of a reason beyond the former not to give them a slight benefit of the doubt.

Part of me thinks we're more desperate for information than we were before the game was announced. I don't know how I got through the old Smash 4 threads between the 2011 announcement and the 2013 reveal. lol

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I wonder if Isabelle fans will accept Ridley throwing her on Samus's ship then blowing it up.

If she's coming

 

[Deleted member]

I wonder if Isabelle fans will accept Ridley throwing her on Samus's ship then blowing it up.

If she's coming

Isabelle is a cinnamon roll and all, but it is just a game, so her just getting obliterated by Ridley is not going to matter too much.
Plus I am focusing on winning and having fun.

 

[osby]

Say, I thought of a neat scenario that should be drawn:

Sakurai has put several prospective characters into a box filled with Mii Fighters that have aggressive AI, whichever ones last the longest get considered for inclusion. A fan gets concerned about what happens to the poor characters that don't make it. Sakurai replies " they become assist trophies!".

It means even characters who can't be playable can be in game? This sounds too good to be true.

 

[prowler12]

It's his dream, not yours.

if he wants to dream with me he can