Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

With all these text leaks, I ain't believin' none of them unless I see anything Chrono Trigger related, because A MAN NEEDS HIS CORRIDORS OF TIME REMIX, DARN IT.
Also because y'know, it's way past overdue I feel for that IP to get into Smash. Please Sakurai, I need my time traveling stage and Crono.

 

[vaanrose]

I agree. Plus so far everything he said about Smash has either been confirmed (Ridley, Snake, Ice Climbers, All vets from Smash For coming back) or isn't deconfirmed (Simon, Minecraft and now Isabelle).
I think that he deserves the benefit of doubt as for now, instead of jumping to conclusion and calling him a fraud and a liar. He is getting way to much hate than he deserves IMO.

Almost all his hate stems from all the times he's leaked false info for other fighting games. It's not undeserved at all, imo.

 

[Apollo500]

The idea of Simon Belmont in Smash is so cool to me that I honestly hope he's right. It would be especially cool if he got a Julius Belmont alt!

 

[Nonno Umby]

As a critic of his, it has more to do with his history. Simply put, I put him in the realm of untrustworthy. The leak itself is in a state of purgatory until the main part of his leak original to him (Simon and Minecraft content) are confirmed or disconfirmed.

Almost all his hate stems from all the times he's leaked false info for other fighting games. It's not undeserved at all, imo.

Yet other named leaker who also got several things wrong in the past don't get trashed as him.
I never seen someone calling Liam Robertson a fraud after he said that Shovel Knight was in Smash and the Ballot Winner, or when the Star Fox Racing game wasn't announced at E3.
Heck, even ArtsiOmni didn't get as mush hate after his Rayman leak he did just to show how great he is a drawing.

Vergeben is getting trashed almost everyday because of "fake leaks" from the past, but people ignore that so far he isn't wrong about Smash, and he also got things for other games right in the past (namely Base Goku and Vegeta in FighterZ before the game came out, or that Undertale would come out on the Switch before GameMaker 2 was supported).
He might have got false info in the past, but many other leaders did, so the hate is really misplaced IMO. His leaks shouldn't be taken as the truth for now, but he has some credibility, especially in regards of Smash.

I've seen people calling his leak "lucky guesses" and that Snake and Ridley were safe bets, when they really weren't (especially the Snake one baffles me because even in our Rate That Character he placed low on chance because of everyone bashing Konami, and other says he piggybacked the imgur leak which was fake, and also had Wolf who was a lot safer than Snake).
I understand that some people might not want to believe everything he said due to his past, and I'm one of them, but he doesn't deserve to be hated as a liar because he isn't, since he has got real info in the past unlike another fake leaker that is indeed a liar *coff coff Marcus Sellars coff coff*

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Isabelle certainly isn't someone who's going to raise any eyebrows, but in Vergeben's defense this is his first safe prediction, everything else has been pretty out there in terms of perceived likelihood.

Going to take it with a grain of salt, I fully trust his initial leak, but that doesn't guarantee that the information he's been getting later is legit, especially not if the rumors of Nintendo throwing fake information out there to track where the leaks come from are true.

 

[Zinith]

Verg is back I see

 

[Dragoncharystary]

The codename leak that's about to die in a day or two said "Warrior" and "Secretary" would both get revealed in a Smash Direct in October, and many people interpreted those to be Simon Belmont and Isabelle.

Don't know if this means anything for Vergeben one way or the other, just something interesting to point out.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I never seen someone calling Liam Robertson a fraud after he said that Shovel Knight was in Smash and the Ballot Winner, or when the Star Fox Racing game wasn't announced at E3.

Liam Constantly gets **** on for that. (Vergeben also jumped in on the Star Fox Racing game)

Heck, even ArtsiOmni didn't get as mush hate after his Rayman leak he did just to show how great he is a drawing.

Artsi's not a leaker. He trolled the Internet once and hasn't leaked since. There's no flack to give him.

Vergeben is getting trashed almost everyday because of "fake leaks" from the past, but people ignore that so far he isn't wrong about Smash, and he also got things for other games right in the past (namely Base Goku and Vegeta in FighterZ before the game came out, or that Undertale would come out on the Switch before GameMaker 2 was supported).
He might have got false info in the past, but many other leaders did, so the hate is really misplaced IMO. His leaks shouldn't be taken as the truth for now, but he has some credibility, especially in regards of Smash.

He's ****ty at vetting. That's his issue.

https://www.reddit.com/r/salty/comments/83tfly/rumor_jojos_bizarre_adventure_fighting_game_in/
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76403748

These being his most obvious. His history is not something that instills confidence. As for Base Goku and Base Vegeta, that's a 50/50 thing since it's not an outlandish claim.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Liam doesn't get as much **** for the Shovel Knight thing because his source came out and said that they knew of the Shovel Knight amiibo and just assumed that it meant Shovel Knight was getting into Smash Bros.

 

[Logo12]

Pretty sure Liam got a lot of hate back then, just that he's called out right when he spread that rumour because everyone was certain it couldn't be true.

After that no one really cared much anyway, plus how it was still somewhat justifiable because amiibo.

Artsy is not even comparable lol, he made a picture rumor other than a text one, he didn't attack whoever that didn't believe him, and he did admit that his rumor was false.

If anything I think Vergeben got less **** than he deserved, I still see people basically praising him like God in gamefaqs, polls in that board shows that a depressing majority still believe everything he says.

 

[vaanrose]

but he doesn't deserve to be hated as a liar because he isn't, since he has got real info in the past unlike another fake leaker that is indeed a liar *coff coff Marcus Sellars coff coff*

This is ironic. We know for a fact Marcus was lied to, not that he's a liar himself. The guy who gave him his Smash info (Connor) came out and confirmed it. He was unfairly set up. And Marcus himself has claimed to be one of Vergeben's sources, and has shown evidence that they were in communication before Verg's first Smash leak.

Meanwhile, Vergeben quite maliciously went back and edited his original DBFZ leak to include two characters he didn't originally leak, Beerus and Hit, after they were leaked via Famitsu scan. That's lying, and there's no arguing about it.

And even his "correct" DBFZ info was wrong. He claimed Goku Black, Broly, Bardock, "Regular Goku" and "Regular Vegeta" (I think this name is very important, since he specifically pointed out that's what they were called, only for that to not be their final official name) would not only be dlc, but that they were all finished four months before the game came out and were being cut specifically for DLC. Goku Black was not only not DLC, when he finally was revealed, his animations weren't even finished (he literally T-Posed during his super). He was so far from being finished four months before release and he wasn't even DLC. Then it took months for the other four, and they, likewise, were clearly unfinished in early trailers. And, of course, he also said Radditz and Zarbon would be DLC and they're nowhere to be seen.

People cherry-picking the very, very few times he's been "right" is why he still gets so much attention.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

"Regular Goku" and "Regular Vegeta" (I think this name is very important, since he specifically pointed out that's what they were called, only for that to not be their final official name)

To be fair these are the kind of things that can get lost in translation when things pass through word of mouth, not to mention the names were likely in Japanese to begin with which only complicates it even further. There are a ton of things you can use against him, but this is pretty mild and easily explained.

Like always I think 100% believing him is naive, but thinking that he's a complete fraud is also pretty desperate, especially when the theory is that he's somehow guessed so many "obvious" things right for several different games. He's a somewhat unstable personality who occasionally gets real insider information in between all of the false information he's also being fed, people just need to learn to take him for what he is instead of going extreme one way or the other. He's not a 0 or a 10 in terms of reliability, but somewhere in between.

 

[dezeray112]

Posting for discussion's sake. Nother Vergeben leak. Nothing super crazy

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76848606

Spoiler

Simon Belmont and Isabelle

You'll thank me later.

.... except for how many new fake leaks you have to sift through that are going to pop up that include them now.

I apologize for the incoming chaos.

As I've already mentioned numerous times, we will see in time whether this becomes legit or not.

As for Liam Robertson, even though he somehow got the Mario and Rabbids correct, he had provided a number of things wrong in the past if I do recall.

 

[papagenos]

some people still dont believe gematsu was real despite the fact we have all but confirmed the chorus kids/men and chrom were likely suppose to be in the game at some point... and sure he didnt know about all the characters like rosalina/bowser jr/and duck hunt but people get way too critical of leaks, i understand scrutinizing them but at the same time people getting fuzzy information that is still "true" is just the reality of how leaked info sometimes happens.

vergeben obviously has had some false info, other times though he has had real info and hes really buckled down on his smash stuff so im inclined to follow it, theres really nothing else out there that seems as credible to follow anyway and guessing konamis involvement in smash is a pretty big indicator of simon belmont (even without this leak now that konamis involved simon would still be very likely). so predicting that is something in my opinion, and isabelle being a former assist trophy/mii costume and an easy echo fighter... both these characters with the addition of a somewhat credible leaker backing them put them over the edge into "probly happening" territory.

 

[vaanrose]

I get salty when people say Ridley, Snake, Ice Climbers and even Simon, honestly, aren't obvious picks, lol.

I put all four of them on my e3 bingo card. I even went to the trouble of photoshopping a new render for Simon. All a month or two before Verg showed up. =_=

People think I actively want him to be wrong, when I've been calling for Simon since Brawl. The dude is simply not trustworthy.

 

[Zeox]

Posting for discussion's sake. Nother Vergeben leak. Nothing super crazy

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76848606

Spoiler

Simon Belmont and Isabelle

You'll thank me later.

.... except for how many new fake leaks you have to sift through that are going to pop up that include them now.

I apologize for the incoming chaos.

Things he got right:
- Snake and Ice Climbers coming back
- No cuts
- Ridley
Things he didn't got right or didn't happen yet:
- Every other veteran coming back too
- Daisy as an echo of Peach
- No Simon Belmont (yet)

I would say that, depends on from where he is getting the info now, you can trust or not... in fact I remember before E3 he was double beating on Ridley more than any other character from his leak, probably because he got much more info about Ridley than about Simon.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I did say way back when that Isabelle was the only Character (outside of the Inklings who we already knew about) that would surprise me by NOT being playable.

Honestly, Isabelle is the only character who's absence as playable would surprise me this time around.

Though that list is much smaller than it once was, after Smash 4 proved DK wasn't as important as Kid Icarus, apparently. Oh and the concerns about time frame hurting Spring Man and Rex/Pyra.

I wonder how she did on the ballot.

 

[NintenRob]

Regardless of verg, I consider Simon one of, if not THE most likely newcomer.

I was convinced he was likely coming when the Bomberman assist trophy was shown. Not only did it deconfirm his biggest competition. But it also confirmed we're getting Konami content outside of Snake and Metal Gear. And he's definitely a big enough name for it in my opinion

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Vergeben leaked Isabelle? She makes a lot of sense.

Sonic designs are generally pretty good but they've probably ought to introduce more varied character designs in the future. Sonic is a pretty minimalist series when it comes to how much it builds up its world (not to say that isn't a good thing) but at this point they've gone a bit too far with trying to fit characters into the Sonic template and things can get really embarrassing when you make a lot of them look like that. In those Sonic comic books there are a ton of really boring background characters that either look samey and boring or try something new but look horrendous because it's still trying to fit into the Sonic template.

Vector and Big stand out for having pretty distinct body types.

 

[Untouch]

Vergeben's Simon leak coincides with Konami apparently teasing or announcing a castlevania announcement at E3.
That didn't happen.
Simon may still happen, but I really don't think Vergeben is legit here.

 

[vaanrose]

A lot of people don't realize Vergeben's DBZ leak was like any of the common Smash "wishlist" leaks.

Basically the minute the FighterZ demo dropped, people were theorizing about Base Goku and Vegeta. Smash isn't the only fandom who goes nut job conspiracy theorist over these things. People were very quick to point out that neither Goku nor Vegeta had any of their Saiyan Saga moves, and that that had to confirm the base forms were coming. Doubly so given that Goku and Vegeta were labeled Super Saiyan instead of just Goku and Vegeta (which turned out to be because the Blue forms were in, but people still took it as a hint for base forms originally).

Goku Black was a character everybody wanted but nobody truly expected, because he was a very new character when the game was announced. For that reason, most were pretty confident he'd miss the base roster but would definitely be DLC. He was basically the Rex of that game. And then it turned out the dev time were actually able to squeeze him in.

Broly is Mewtwo. Everybody expected him and it was a common idea he might be saved for DLC because no character had his level of popularity.

Radditz was basically Sceptile. A character everyone was convinced would be in not because anybody truly wanted him but because he completed the Saiyan "trio." He was a safe guess that turned out to be wrong because it's stupid to add a character just to fill a quota.

Then you have a character like Android 17, who Verg didn't leak. Putting him on a leak would be like putting Waluigi on one now. He was disconfirmed for being part of 18's moveset. But tons of people wanted him.

The only difference between FighterZ and Smash is DBZ has way fewer possible character picks. It's pretty easy to get a few right when you leak every popular character left.

 

[DMTN]

At least we know now who Vergeben is.

 

[KMDP]

A lot of people don't realize Vergeben's DBZ leak was like any of the common Smash "wishlist" leaks.

Basically the minute the FighterZ demo dropped, people were theorizing about Base Goku and Vegeta. Smash isn't the only fandom who goes nut job conspiracy theorist over these things. People were very quick to point out that neither Goku nor Vegeta had any of their Saiyan Saga moves, and that that had to confirm the base forms were coming. Doubly so given that Goku and Vegeta were labeled Super Saiyan instead of just Goku and Vegeta (which turned out to be because the Blue forms were in, but people still took it as a hint for base forms originally).

Goku Black was a character everybody wanted but nobody truly expected, because he was a very new character when the game was announced. For that reason, most were pretty confident he'd miss the base roster but would definitely be DLC. He was basically the Rex of that game. And then it turned out the dev time were actually able to squeeze him in.

Broly is Mewtwo. Everybody expected him and it was a common idea he might be saved for DLC because no character had his level of popularity.

Radditz was basically Sceptile. A character everyone was convinced would be in not because anybody truly wanted him but because he completed the Saiyan "trio." He was a safe guess that turned out to be wrong because it's stupid to add a character just to fill a quota.

Then you have a character like Android 17, who Verg didn't leak. Putting him on a leak would be like putting Waluigi on one now. He was disconfirmed for being part of 18's moveset. But tons of people wanted him.

The only difference between FighterZ and Smash is DBZ has way fewer possible character picks. It's pretty easy to get a few right when you leak every popular character left.

Actually, who are rumoured to be the last two FighterZ characters? Wasn't it Zarbon and Cooler or something? (Cooler I can see, but... why Zarbon of all characters? XD)

Personally, I would think the last two would be Kefla and Jiren (considering how long it'll have been since the end of Super), but that's just me.

Anyway, that's not on topic with Smash.

About Vergeben:

I... don't care. Sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong. Is he a leaker? Or someone with lucky guesses and backpedalling? Or Both?

It doesn't matter to me.

 

[Cosmic77]

Vergeben is claiming that the source who told him Ridley, Ice Climbers, Snake, and no cuts would be in Smash is the same person who's giving him his information on Simon and Isabelle.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Even if Isabelle seems like a safe guess, that shouldn't automatically discredit him. Quite a few people don't think she'll get in Smash, so Verg getting this right is still something he was able to predict. Besides, for those of you trying to discredit him because of his shaky history, let me remind you that he was able to predict Ridley. Ridley was far from being a safe choice, and a majority of people wouldn't have even expected Ridley at E3 if it weren't for Vergeben himself.

All I'm trying to say is that instead focusing on Vergeben's wrong predictions, focus on what he's gotten right for this game. Vergeben himeself is not the original leaker. He's getting this info from another source, so if this particular source has gotten things right in the past, there's a good chance many of the other things he says could be true as well.

 

[BeardyBennett]

All this talk of a Star Fox racing game. I missed those rumors back in the day but thank God that didn't happen. There's only room for one Nintendo sci-fi racer and that belongs to the Captain. Also I'd much rather have an actual good Star Fox sequel.

As for Verge and leaks, eh I don't really give any of them any credence as it's an absolute crapshoot as to which ones are "real". That being said, I love the speculation and leaks that mention characters rarely or never mentioned. I'm personally hoping the Geolyte leak, real or not, is on to something. Never played Meteos, but I love to see curveball characters.

 

[Zinith]

Remember my motto on leaks...

 

[MainJPW]

Actually, who are rumoured to be the last two FighterZ characters? Wasn't it Zarbon and Cooler or something? (Cooler I can see, but... why Zarbon of all characters? XD)

Personally, I would think the last two would be Kefla and Jiren (considering how long it'll have been since the end of Super), but that's just me.

Cooler and all the remaining DLC characters are in the game’s data, he even has an announcer call.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Remember my motto on leaks...

If it doesn't have Yoshi or Boshi in it it's not worth looking at?

 

[BeardyBennett]

Actually, who are rumoured to be the last two FighterZ characters? Wasn't it Zarbon and Cooler or something? (Cooler I can see, but... why Zarbon of all characters? XD)

Personally, I would think the last two would be Kefla and Jiren (considering how long it'll have been since the end of Super), but that's just me.

Anyway, that's not on topic with Smash.

About Vergeben:

I... don't care. Sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong. Is he a leaker? Or someone with lucky guesses and backpedalling? Or Both?

It doesn't matter to me.

IIRC Zarbon was a pretty hype character until he got his *** kicked. I don't have FighterZ but we all know who the most hype character would be

Yajirobe

 

[Zinith]

If it doesn't have Yoshi or Boshi in it it's not worth looking at?

lmao

But seriously, it's "all leaks are bull**** until proven otherwise"

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, who are rumoured to be the last two FighterZ characters? Wasn't it Zarbon and Cooler or something? (Cooler I can see, but... why Zarbon of all characters? XD)

Personally, I would think the last two would be Kefla and Jiren (considering how long it'll have been since the end of Super), but that's just me.

Anyway, that's not on topic with Smash.

About Vergeben:

I... don't care. Sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong. Is he a leaker? Or someone with lucky guesses and backpedalling? Or Both?

It doesn't matter to me.

I believe someone claimed Zarbon and Raditz would be the final DLC characters, but the game's data confirms that the final two are going to be Cooler and Android #17.

 

[Cosmic77]

All this talk of a Star Fox racing game. I missed those rumors back in the day but thank God that didn't happen. There's only room for one Nintendo sci-fi racer and that belongs to the Captain. Also I'd much rather have an actual good Star Fox sequel.

Don't hate it before you try it. There's no guarantee a Star Fox racing game would be bad, just like there's no guarantee a new F-Zero game would be good.

At the very least, I can say that a Star Fox racing game sounds intriguing. I'd have to see how it was handled, but the idea has potential, especially if you race in Arwings and other spaceships. Besides, there's a 90% chance Krystal would be playable. This could be the boost she needs to become relevant again.

 

[Deleted member]

IIRC Zarbon was a pretty hype character until he got his *** kicked. I don't have FighterZ but we all know who the most hype character would be

Yajirobe

Farmer with a shotgun or bust.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

IIRC, Raditz and Zarbon are part of a rumored Season 2 of DLC.

The others were Gogeta, Tapion, Master Roshi, Videl (with GREAT SAYIAMAN), Cabba and Kale/Califla.

 

[ShadowTheHedgehogZ]

IIRC, Raditz and Zarbon are part of a rumored Season 2 of DLC.

The others were Gogeta, Tapion, Master Roshi, Videl (with GREAT SAYIAMAN), Cabba and Kale/Califla.

Gogeta! Now I can have Vegito VS Gogeta

 

[92MilesPrower]

Apparently there was discussion about Sonic that I missed? Might as well contribute to that 'cause why not.

My first exposure to Sonic was actually via the games Sonic Battle, Advance 3 and Heroes, along with Sonic X, I was like 6. It wasn't until high school when I actually got to play Adventure 1 and 2. Anyways, I'm still a huge fan nowadays, and I think I'm actually gonna do a full reread of the entire Archie Sonic comics sometime soon while waiting for Ultimate (yes, even despite all of the hot garbage that Ken Penders made and stuff in his run, as well as how the comics ended without a proper ending).

 

[KMDP]

Cooler and all the remaining DLC characters are in the game’s data, he even has an announcer call.

I believe someone claimed Zarbon and Raditz would be the final DLC characters, but the game's data confirms that the final two are going to be Cooler and Android #17.

Ah, right, now I remember!

IIRC Zarbon was a pretty hype character until he got his *** kicked. I don't have FighterZ but we all know who the most hype character would be

Yajirobe

I think you mean Master Roshi and Chichi.

I'm 100% serious. Chichi was awesome in Super Dragon Ball Z.

 

[SquashiniKun]

Looks like the prophet came back, and now he's saying that Isabelle is joining the roster. Is anybody seriously still trusting this guy anymore?

 

[MainJPW]

I think you mean Master Roshi and Chichi.

I'm 100% serious. Chichi was awesome in Super Dragon Ball Z.

I’d actually rather have Chi-Chi over Videl. Even in Dragon Ball she was a legitimate fighter with impressive skill and strength that even Roshi praised. Chi-Chi with the Power Pole and Bansho Fan? Boy hell yeah.

Roshi? He’s the Dixie Kong of Fighterz because he’s relevant and hasn’t shown up yet. With his versatility he’d make for a fun character.

 

[NintenRob]

Looks like the prophet came back, and now he's saying that Isabelle is joining the roster. Is anybody seriously still trusting this guy anymore?

He seems more believable then most leakers out there, even if it's just his own prediction, its still makes more sense than some of the stuff posted here.