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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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StormC

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Shadow is a perfect fit for the echo slot.

He's a popular character but also controversial. If he got in as a unique character there would be a lot of annoyed people.

If he gets in as an echo it would please most of his fans while also preventing most of the outrage.

You know which character is in a similar spot?

:ultdaisy:
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Shadow is a perfect fit for the echo slot.

He's a popular character but also controversial. If he got in as a unique character there would be a lot of annoyed people.

If he gets in as an echo it would please most of his fans while also preventing most of the outrage.

You know which character is in a similar spot?

:ultdaisy:
Funny thing is that Shadow actually has well known unique abilities.

Of course, he can easily do all of Sonic's attacks(though it'd be neat if he was a clone who had modified animations, but I'm not so confident in him being unique), so him being an Echo works just fine. If anything, I'd want him in just to not only have such a neat addition alone, but for his own game music. Cause seriously, Shadow the Hedgehog has an amazing OST.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I just don't want another Sonic character. Beat, Akira Yuki, Valkyria Chronicles character, a Golden Axe character? Hell yeah, gimme. I really don't want another Sonic character on the roster though. Seems boring when Sega has so many good franchises on deck.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Shadow is a perfect fit for the echo slot.

He's a popular character but also controversial. If he got in as a unique character there would be a lot of annoyed people.

If he gets in as an echo it would please most of his fans while also preventing most of the outrage.

You know which character is in a similar spot?

:ultdaisy:
Thing is Shadow actually has stuff going for him, fans will be disappointed he's just Sonic but a different colour. He's one of the most popular characters in the franchise after all
 

StormC

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I just don't want another Sonic character. Beat, Akira Yuki, Valkyria Chronicles character, a Golden Axe character? Hell yeah, gimme. I really don't want another Sonic character on the roster though.
I'd rather have another Sonic character than any of those, to be honest. Half of those are Literally Who.

Then again I'm iffy on third party series getting new characters period. It's a slippery slope.
 

Troykv

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Funny thing is that Shadow actually has well known unique abilities.

Of course, he can easily do all of Sonic's attacks(though it'd be neat if he was a clone who had modified animations, but I'm not so confident in him being unique), so him being an Echo works just fine. If anything, I'd want him in just to not only have such a neat addition alone, but for his own game music. Cause seriously, Shadow the Hedgehog has an amazing OST.
I want his music and his special running animation!
 

Idon

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Yeah I'm with NonSpecificGuy NonSpecificGuy here.

Sega has a BUTT-TON of IPs with tons of unique and fun characters. Even moreso with its subsidiaries.
How about we don't waste dev time on another character from the same franchise?
(Also please, give me an Atlus rep)
 

perfectchaos83

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Shadow is a perfect fit for the echo slot.

He's a popular character but also controversial. If he got in as a unique character there would be a lot of annoyed people.

If he gets in as an echo it would please most of his fans while also preventing most of the outrage.

You know which character is in a similar spot?

:ultdaisy:
He's also 3rd party. That's the issue. I don't think going through all the legal trouble for a clone is worth it. Sure, Shadow can do everything Sonic can in Smash, but so can Tails, Knuckles and Amy and none of them should ever be a Sonic Clone in a Fighting game and Neither Should Shadow. This is without going into the personality differences between them. Sonic is a free spirit. It's something that is heavily referenced in his moveset through his movements. Shadow is very much a straight to the point kind of guy. He's not looking to be flashy like Sonic, Shadow straight up wants results.
 

Troykv

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Yeah I'm with NonSpecificGuy NonSpecificGuy here.

Sega has a BUTT-TON of IPs with tons of unique and fun characters. Even moreso with its subsidiaries.
How about we don't waste dev time on another character from the same franchise?
(Also please, give me an Atlus rep)
How many of their IPs outside of the Atlus' ones are alive this days?

VC and PuyoPuyo are the ones I have heard about.

Seriously; when I played Project X Zone for the first play I was completely "wat" when I see all this old Sega Franchises xDU
 
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UltimateWario

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I started playing Nuts and Bolts recently and it made me realize how much of a ****ing curse the Banjo brand was for that game. It's a really fun game by itself, but then you bring in the ****ing awful character design for classic characters and the whole "why is the sequel to a pair of collectathon platformers a lego vehicle builder game?" and it drags the whole thing down.

I bring this up because, regardless of their chances, I really hope if Banjo and Kazooie get in they draw entirely from Kazooie and Tooie. There's nothing of real worth they could bring from Nuts and Bolts, besides...a wrench melee attack or something. Unfortunately, I'd imagine Microsoft/Rare would push the new design on the character if given the chance.

I guess stanky nuBanjo with oldBanjo moves is better than no Banjo at all.
 

Captain Shwampy

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Sonic Channel was holding a favorite sonic character vote this month and shadow was pretty much on neck with sonic constantly

He is continually the 2nd favorite next to sonic himself no matter what.
 

StormC

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He's also 3rd party. That's the issue. I don't think going through all the legal trouble for a clone is worth it. Sure, Shadow can do everything Sonic can in Smash, but so can Tails, Knuckles and Amy and none of them should ever be a Sonic Clone in a Fighting game and Neither Should Shadow. This is without going into the personality differences between them. Sonic is a free spirit. It's something that is heavily referenced in his moveset through his movements. Shadow is very much a straight to the point kind of guy. He's not looking to be flashy like Sonic, Shadow straight up wants results.
:ultpit::ultdarkpit:

You're overthinking this mate. All the Smash team has to do is retool his animations to fit his character more, like they did with Daisy.
 

StormC

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Yeah I'm with NonSpecificGuy NonSpecificGuy here.

Sega has a BUTT-TON of IPs with tons of unique and fun characters. Even moreso with its subsidiaries.
How about we don't waste dev time on another character from the same franchise?
(Also please, give me an Atlus rep)
What does being from the same franchise have to do with anything though? Characters like Tails and Eggman blow any other Sega character out of the water in terms of popularity and iconic status.

I personally have little interest in adding third party company "reps." I'd rather play as characters I actually like and have merit beyond arbitrary quotas.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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:ultpit::ultdarkpit:

You're overthinking this mate. All the Smash team has to do is retool his animations to fit his character more, like they did with Daisy.
That wasn't the main point being made; a character being licensed also means that the 3rd party owner will care what is done with the character, sometimes. They might actually care if the character is a low-effort clone(A.K.A. an echo) or not. So it could go either way. It's not that cut and dry like with 1st/2nd parties where it's really easy. Consider the fact they won't let Sonic have a lot of good colors alone. Them being picky about Shadow isn't hard to believe.
 

SonicMario

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im talking base roster....Don't worry though, in the long run, my prediction will prove correct...im confident in it.
I still think this is completely insane.

Maybe if this bet was done for a character like K. Rool, Bandana Dee, or even a specific Pokemon newcomer I'd get it.

But for a 2nd Sonic rep? I don't get how you can be so confident. I'd love Tails to get in as one myself, but I'd hardly say I have any confidence in him making the cut until at least DLC assuming Shadow isn't already an Echo Fighter right now (Since I doubt they let Sonic get 3 characters, heck I'm still iffy that we even get more then Sonic in the first place. And I'd be just fine with that). Shadow might be pretty popular (Within just the Sonic fanbase at least anyway), but base game unique/semi-clone popular for a 2nd Sonic rep when we already have Sonic and Bayonetta for 2 Sega characters? You're really overestimating Shadow's place right now if you're so confident in that happening.
 

Idon

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How many of their IPs outside of the Atlus' ones are alive this days?

Just VC and PuyoPuyo
Mainly Yakuza. (Or Shenmue if you're a believer)

But that's not my point. Characters shouldn't be represented solely based on whether the main company decides to keep them alive for sequels.
Unless you want to argue Pac-man shouldn't be in.
 

Captain Shwampy

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How many of their IPs outside of the Atlus' ones are alive this days?

Just VC and PuyoPuyo
Sakura Wars is getting a revival next year by the VC team

HOTD got a new arcade game
Yakuza still going strong
Virtual On got a new game last year which sadly flopped in sales
Phantasy Star still going strong, sort of
Border Break is getting a rerelease
 

RandomAce

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Rex and Pyra show a thing or three!
Or just Rex and Pyra drive into battle.

Lycanroc smashes into battle!

So, in responce to my EVO comment, I'm saying that EVO is potentially a possible time to reveal a newcomer. If Nintendo has other plans, then that is also possible that we do not get a reveal.

The reason why I think we can get an EVO is because there is a lot less time to reveal new information, and with EVO being one the remaining BIG events that have a very strong Smash scene, then it's possible.
 

Troykv

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Mainly Yakuza. (Or Shenmue if you're a believer)

But that's not my point. Characters shouldn't be represented solely based on whether the main company decides to keep them alive for sequels.
Unless you want to argue Pac-man shouldn't be in.
Pac-Man is different; his games aren't popular these days; but damn; he's so iconic.

(BTW; I edited a bit the post; I forgot to mention something)
 

Idon

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What does being from the same franchise have to do with anything though? Characters like Tails and Eggman blow any other Sega character out of the water in terms of popularity and iconic status.

I personally have little interest in adding third party company "reps." I'd rather play as characters I actually like and have merit beyond arbitrary quotas.
By that logic, you might as well put in the cast of Street Fighter 2 and cut out all the retro characters and all the JRPG characters. After all, they're far more recognizable than 60% of the Smash roster.

On top of that you're assuming that characters you don't know about are characters other people only want in to fill "arbitrary quotas."
It's far more likely they just like the character and like the game that they represent more than another Sonic character.
 

7NATOR

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I still think this is completely insane.

Maybe if this bet was done for a character like K. Rool, Bandana Dee, or even a specific Pokemon newcomer I'd get it.

But for a 2nd Sonic rep? I don't get how you can be so confident. I'd love Tails to get in as one myself, but I'd hardly say I have any confidence in him making the cut until at least DLC assuming Shadow isn't already an Echo Fighter right now (Since I doubt they let Sonic get 3 characters, heck I'm still iffy that we even get more then Sonic in the first place. And I'd be just fine with that). Shadow might be pretty popular (Within just the Sonic fanbase at least anyway), but base game unique/semi-clone popular for a 2nd Sonic rep when we already have Sonic and Bayonetta for 2 Sega characters? You're really overestimating Shadow's place right now if you're so confident in that happening.
Sonic been in Smash 4, brawl, and now Ultimate...3 games

People want a new Sonic rep

Shadow is the 2nd most popular Sonic character

Sega wouldn't allow Shadow to be an echo

These are just some reasons Why i think Shadow is in the base game with his own moveset... That's why i made the bet
 

StormC

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By that logic, you might as well put in the cast of Street Fighter 2 and cut out all the retro characters and all the JRPG characters. After all, they're far more recognizable than 60% of the Smash roster.

On top of that you're assuming that characters you don't know about are characters other people only want in to fill "arbitrary quotas."
It's far more likely they just like the character and like the game that they represent more than another Sonic character.
You said you want an "Atlus rep." That's not a character you specified.

My point was I didn't understand why it would be a "waste of development time" to add characters to established franchises instead of new IPs when those characters have merit.
 

BlondeLombax

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I started playing Nuts and Bolts recently and it made me realize how much of a ****ing curse the Banjo brand was for that game. It's a really fun game by itself, but then you bring in the ****ing awful character design for classic characters and the whole "why is the sequel to a pair of collectathon platformers a lego vehicle builder game?" and it drags the whole thing down.

I bring this up because, regardless of their chances, I really hope if Banjo and Kazooie get in they draw entirely from Kazooie and Tooie. There's nothing of real worth they could bring from Nuts and Bolts, besides...a wrench melee attack or something. Unfortunately, I'd imagine Microsoft/Rare would push the new design on the character if given the chance.

I guess stanky nuBanjo with oldBanjo moves is better than no Banjo at all.
Hope you're having fun! Despite the Banjo branding, it's a fantastic game in its own right, and should at least be given a fair chance.
And I don't think there'd be anything to worry about on account of the N&B designs. They're using a touch-up of the old N64 designs for the F4F statue, so I think they're well aware of what the fans want.
 

P.Kat

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Does this mean base game or will you delay it on the off chance it happened in DLC. (If Shadow's assist trophy is still suspiciously missing from the base game)

Because to be honest if it's the former. Better prepare for that mustard water now :p

I think the only way Sonic's getting a 2nd rep that's not an echo is in DLC whether it ended up being Tails or Shadow.
I wouldn't count out Blaze the Cat. I think she has chance for DLC too.
"You gotta draw the line in the sand, dude! You gotta make a statement! You gotta look inside yourself and say What am I willing to put up with today?
NOT. ****ING. THIS.
My Favorite Game Grumps episode. It always puts a smile on my face. WHAT IS THIS?! I can't get off. WHAT IS THIS?! I'm stuck. WHAT IS MY LIFE?!
 

Troykv

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Sakura Wars is getting a revival next year by the VC team

HOTD got a new arcade game
Yakuza still going strong
Virtual On got a new game last year which sadly flopped in sales
Phantasy Star still going strong, sort of
Border Break is getting a rerelease
I know Yakuza and Phatasy Star actually... (and some very very basic stuff about Sakura Wars)... but I don't have idea which are the other franchises (When I try to search HOTD I don't exactly get games).
 

Dragoncharystary

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Shadow is a perfect fit for the echo slot.

He's a popular character but also controversial. If he got in as a unique character there would be a lot of annoyed people.

If he gets in as an echo it would please most of his fans while also preventing most of the outrage.

You know which character is in a similar spot?

:ultdaisy:
Don't forget about :ultdoc:, :ultyounglink:, and :ultpichu: though. If Shadow were to fall under that category he could still borrow heavily from Sonic yet be unique enough at the same time, perhaps he could have one of his special moves changed.
 

PlayerOneTyler

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Shadow is a perfect fit for the echo slot.

He's a popular character but also controversial. If he got in as a unique character there would be a lot of annoyed people.

If he gets in as an echo it would please most of his fans while also preventing most of the outrage.

You know which character is in a similar spot?

:ultdaisy:
My only qualm with this is the idea of 3rd party Echo fighters. I mean, it's possible (and I think Sonic / Shadow is the most likely scenario if it does happen), but I wonder if the team would go through all that licensing trouble with SEGA just to make an Echo... and would SEGA (or any other company) be okay with them being listed as a "copy"? I almost feel like 3rd party companies would want their characters be treated as important guests. Even if Shadow did get in and had the same exact moveset as Sonic, I don't think they'd list him as an Echo simply out of respect for the partnering company.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a possibility. I'm just playing devil's advocate.
 
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Honest Slug

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People get so hung up on how Shadow can do different things that they seem to forget that in most of the games he plays as a Sonic clone. He can perform all the moves Sonic can and would be super easy to implement.
 

Idon

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You said you want an "Atlus rep." That's not a character you specified.

My point was I didn't understand why it would be a "waste of development time" to add characters to established franchises instead of new IPs when those characters have merit.
Yeah, I said I wanted an Atlus rep, because I'm a fan of most of their IPs and because they fall under the Sega banner. If you want me to be specific, I have an entire character support thread for this. Besides that, it was an off-hand joke.

Come on, you called every character you didn't know a "literally who." Nobody said anything would be a waste of development time for more of the same franchise. They said they'd rather have a different character from a different franchise that also has its own fanbase to be represented in Smash -franchises that also have "merit"
 
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Cutie Gwen

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People get so hung up on how Shadow can do different things that they seem to forget that in most of the games he plays as a Sonic clone. He can perform all the moves Sonic can and would be super easy to implement.
While that's true, Sonic games don't tend tk have a complicated moveset, in SA2, jumping and homing attacks are the only things that don't use the B button. And in most games afterwards, they make Shadow more unique, look at 06, they're kind of similar but Shadow is more combat oriented and has Chaos Powers
 

DaybreakHorizon

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How about, instead of another Sonic character, we get Joker or a Persona character instead? A character from SMT would be cool as well.

That sounds good to me.
 
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StormC

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Yeah, I said I wanted an Atlus rep, because I'm a fan of most of their IPs and because they fall under the Sega banner. If you want me to be specific, I have an entire character support thread for this. Besides that, it was an off-hand joke.

Come on, you called every character you didn't know a "literally who." Nobody said anything would be a waste of development time for more of the same franchise. They said they'd rather have a different character from a different franchise that also has its own fanbase to be represented in Smash -franchises that also have "merit"
"Literally Who" is a joke about characters that aren't really recognizable outside of hardcore gamers. I actually knew all of those characters/IPs listed.

That's the thing with third parties, it becomes a question of what third parties do we want to see in Smash at this point with most of the major series covered? Even Sakurai has said after Final Fantasy, they were running out of IPs. I'm not sure I'm ready for it to jump straight into cult classic kind of stuff.
 

Houndstooth

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Mario is killed by Waluigi, which makes Princess Peach cry, which causes the Charizard demon sealed away in her body to be released and bring together a bunch of characters from different timelines and chaos to the world.

It's up to Wario, Luigi, and psychic blue Mario Geno from the future to collect the 7 Crystal Stars and save Mario.
There we go...

Not sure if it was posted already but there will be some exhibition matches featuring top players at EVO next Friday 8/3 at 6PM. And apparently they will be streamed too (not sure if by Nintendo or EVO though).

https://twitter.com/NintendoVS/status/1021916922911178752

Awesome. Hope to talk about the matches in this thread with some of you, like with the Jump tourney stuff. Too bad Little Girl in Pink won't be attending... She was good...
View attachment 154214

Got bored so I did a new game based on the previous word association one:

A-Z of newcomers. We're in a parallel universe where 26 newcomer is feasible, but you can only have one of each letter. Who you pick?

A: Andy
B: Bandana Dee
C: Captain Toad
D: Dixie Kong
E: Elma
F: Fossil Fighter
G: Gooey
H: Henry Flemming(you're welcome Oppossum)
I: Impa
J: Jashin(and Doshin)
K: Kamek
L: Lyn
M: Meowth
N: Nikki(was a tough choice)
O: Octoling
P: Porky(although Paper Mario was close)
Q: Qbby
R: Ribbon Girl
S: Slippy Toad(Samurai Goroh was close)
T: Toad
U: Urobosa(not many U's)
V: Vaati
W: Waluigi
X: Xander(again not many X's)
Y: Yuga
Z: Zoroark (almost went for Zant but way too many Zelda newcomers)

What are yours?
Let's give this a try...

A: Ashley
B: Boshi
C: Crono (Chrono Trigger)
D: Decidueye
E: Eggman
F: Frog (Chrono Trigger)
G: Geno
H: Hitmontop
I: Impa
J: Jirachi
K: King K. Rool
L: Leonardo (TMNT w/ alts for the others)
M: Master Chief
N: N (Pokemon Trainer) using Darumaka, Scizor, and Froslass. Final Smash is Zekrom. (Had to reach here.)
O: Octoling
P: Paper Mario
Q: Q*Bert
R: Rocket Grunt with Meowth, Mimikyu, and Cacnea. Or, Meowth and two other "Jessie/James" Pokemon. Or, Meowth using other Pokemon to fight.
S: Shadow the Hedgehog
T: Tails
U: Urbosa
V: Venusaur (Based off of Red's from the manga)
W: Waddle Dee (With a Bandanna, of course... /cheat)
X: X (Mega Man X)
Y: Y (Yvonne Gabena, Pokemon Trainer) using Fletchling, Sylveon, and Rhyhorn. (Had to reach here as well.)
Z: Zoroark

Much tougher than I anticipated...
 

Thirdkoopa

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Alright General thread, I've been playing SMRPG lately at nights. I recruited Geno yesterday and today I got through beating Yoshi in a race, so, we're gonna talk about it.

Geno: If Geno got into Smash Bros. the one thing I see as a (big) flaw/drawback of his toolkit is that he would be SUPER floaty and easy to kill - He doesn't have much defense, but he's super powerful, super agile, and very diversely skilled. I don't see him as some crazy complex character and I think that's why he could easily make a picture perfect fit - He's familiar enough to a lot of other Smash characters, but unique enough to where he could still easily stand out among the cast.

Mallow: I think he'd be a full mage like Robin, except no sword. In particular, I could see him being the first character to heal (HP Rain) without it needing to be a drain (Unless we've had someone else who can just heal on command?). I think he'd be a pretty heavy character but still able to move pretty well (like, hard to move, but easy to use) - There's a lot he could do and he'd probably be a bit more far-fetched (read: not copying stuff) than Geno. Seeing that he'll probably be an assist, I think him coming out and using a bunch of his attacks at once would be great - Maybe crying.

Boshi: I'll humor Zinith Zinith some - He's passionate about a pretty cool character imho and I like talking Echo Fighters.

First, let's talk his personality. He's to Yoshi as what Wario is to Mario, so he fits the Echo dynamic on that end well - He has a soft spot, though, more than Wario. So, he's like Yoshi with a bit of a spunk attitude. How do we implement that in his moveset without making any actual big changes?
-His Smash attacks and others would just have more attitude in animation. we don't know Yoshi's final smash in this game.
-For his specials, I could mainly see him being a faster, but weaker Yoshi. I also see him running out of stamina, so all his speed can't just be in one go
-Given that all final smashes are being streamlined, I could see Yoshi's being more different - For Boshi's, it'd probably have a horde of Yoshi's persuaded by cookies, similar to the opening of Melee. If Yoshi were to get this as a final smash, Boshi would have more Boshi's on the screen and possibly a Croco cameo

So... A bit more changes than the typical Echo, but if you were to trim it down some: He runs faster, is less strong (or some mechanic closer to Lucina's; can't quite think of what that'd be), animation quirks, and that's it.

Now, really, only Geno has any shot in hell, but it's a nice topic to discuss. If someone else has played a game recently and wants to talk about those characters in Smash, I'd LOVE to hear from them! (Even if I'm unfamiliar with the game - If it's a Nintendo game though, we can talk characters)
 
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