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Okay, I'm going to stop you right there.
Then we get into the same ****ing debates about Shadow but whether or not Raiden should just be a clone or the badass robotic ninja dude
Umm, PushDustIn made the mistake in the first place and apologized for it...Literally the opposite, but alright
Wouldn't Big Boss, the guy Snake is literally a clone of, make the most sense?
It was on their Rate The Character thing, though tbf they retracted that statement and even took the video down when realizing they ****ed up. Now when is "Puyo Puyo has a 70% chance to get a character" going to be retractedLiterally the opposite, but alright
yeah
Naked Snake it is, then.
I still want Blaze, but getting a Person character would be cool, I wouldn't object to that especially if it's Yu Narukami. Johnny Yong Bosch better be the English voice for him.
If we're going MGS2 Raiden, then yeah for 99% of the game, he's literally just Snake with some different animations. Ninja sword mode notwithstanding.
I actually finished a playthrough recently as well. Just because Smash Ultimate was announced and I wanted to see Geno in action again.Alright General thread, I've been playing SMRPG lately at nights. I recruited Geno yesterday and today I got through beating Yoshi in a race, so, we're gonna talk about it.
Geno: If Geno got into Smash Bros. the one thing I see as a (big) flaw/drawback of his toolkit is that he would be SUPER floaty and easy to kill - He doesn't have much defense, but he's super powerful, super agile, and very diversely skilled. I don't see him as some crazy complex character and I think that's why he could easily make a picture perfect fit - He's familiar enough to a lot of other Smash characters, but unique enough to where he could still easily stand out among the cast.
Mallow: I think he'd be a full mage like Robin, except no sword. In particular, I could see him being the first character to heal (HP Rain) without it needing to be a drain (Unless we've had someone else who can just heal on command?). I think he'd be a pretty heavy character but still able to move pretty well (like, hard to move, but easy to use) - There's a lot he could do and he'd probably be a bit more far-fetched (read: not copying stuff) than Geno. Seeing that he'll probably be an assist, I think him coming out and using a bunch of his attacks at once would be great - Maybe crying.
Boshi: I'll humorZinith some - He's passionate about a pretty cool character imho and I like talking Echo Fighters.
First, let's talk his personality. He's to Yoshi as what Wario is to Mario, so he fits the Echo dynamic on that end well - He has a soft spot, though, more than Wario. So, he's like Yoshi with a bit of a spunk attitude. How do we implement that in his moveset without making any actual big changes?
-His Smash attacks and others would just have more attitude in animation. we don't know Yoshi's final smash in this game.
-For his specials, I could mainly see him being a faster, but weaker Yoshi. I also see him running out of stamina, so all his speed can't just be in one go
-Given that all final smashes are being streamlined, I could see Yoshi's being more different - For Boshi's, it'd probably have a horde of Yoshi's persuaded by cookies, similar to the opening of Melee. If Yoshi were to get this as a final smash, Boshi would have more Boshi's on the screen and possibly a Croco cameo
So... A bit more changes than the typical Echo, but if you were to trim it down some: He runs faster, is less strong (or some mechanic closer to Lucina's; can't quite think of what that'd be), animation quirks, and that's it.
Now, really, only Geno has any shot in hell, but it's a nice topic to discuss. If someone else has played a game recently and wants to talk about those characters in Smash, I'd LOVE to hear from them! (Even if I'm unfamiliar with the game - If it's a Nintendo game though, we can talk characters)
My reasoning for not bringing up Big Boss immediately was that Snake is simply called "Snake" in Smash, not Solid Snake. He's very obviously Solid Snake, but I think the lack of distinction was intentional so that you could interpret him as either the original or David.
Is he a hybrid? It's pretty clear this is Solid Snake with all the weaponry he uses.
He also comments on food items, something only Naked Snake did
PapaGenos you're on here? you make some good videos
I'd call that more a funny reference than a "hybrid."
...and?
Geno: Fantastic! Except Up B definitely should be Geno Cannon, but that's just me. Probably many others there too. I like the move set idea still for sure
SHADOW KIRBY TIME
Mallow heavy?Alright General thread, I've been playing SMRPG lately at nights. I recruited Geno yesterday and today I got through beating Yoshi in a race, so, we're gonna talk about it.
Geno: If Geno got into Smash Bros. the one thing I see as a (big) flaw/drawback of his toolkit is that he would be SUPER floaty and easy to kill - He doesn't have much defense, but he's super powerful, super agile, and very diversely skilled. I don't see him as some crazy complex character and I think that's why he could easily make a picture perfect fit - He's familiar enough to a lot of other Smash characters, but unique enough to where he could still easily stand out among the cast.
Mallow: I think he'd be a full mage like Robin, except no sword. In particular, I could see him being the first character to heal (HP Rain) without it needing to be a drain (Unless we've had someone else who can just heal on command?). I think he'd be a pretty heavy character but still able to move pretty well (like, hard to move, but easy to use) - There's a lot he could do and he'd probably be a bit more far-fetched (read: not copying stuff) than Geno. Seeing that he'll probably be an assist, I think him coming out and using a bunch of his attacks at once would be great - Maybe crying.
Boshi: I'll humor
First, let's talk his personality. He's to Yoshi as what Wario is to Mario, so he fits the Echo dynamic on that end well - He has a soft spot, though, more than Wario. So, he's like Yoshi with a bit of a spunk attitude. How do we implement that in his moveset without making any actual big changes?
-His Smash attacks and others would just have more attitude in animation. we don't know Yoshi's final smash in this game.
-For his specials, I could mainly see him being a faster, but weaker Yoshi. I also see him running out of stamina, so all his speed can't just be in one go
-Given that all final smashes are being streamlined, I could see Yoshi's being more different - For Boshi's, it'd probably have a horde of Yoshi's persuaded by cookies, similar to the opening of Melee. If Yoshi were to get this as a final smash, Boshi would have more Boshi's on the screen and possibly a Croco cameo
So... A bit more changes than the typical Echo, but if you were to trim it down some: He runs faster, is less strong (or some mechanic closer to Lucina's; can't quite think of what that'd be), animation quirks, and that's it.
Now, really, only Geno has any shot in hell, but it's a nice topic to discuss. If someone else has played a game recently and wants to talk about those characters in Smash, I'd LOVE to hear from them! (Even if I'm unfamiliar with the game - If it's a Nintendo game though, we can talk characters)
I feel this is a pretty big issue with speculation these days and a problem I have with it, in particular. Rather than characters who naturally fit the Echo Fighter role (i.e. have basically nothing to bring to the table or would would require contriving a different moveset out of the same material as another character), people are trying to mash characters into that role by force. I think Dixie, Dark Samus, and Shadow are the biggest victims of this. Our existing Echoes are characters who fight/play exactly like their counterparts with different stats, which is what they are in Smash, as well.
This has always been my thought on 3rd Party echoes. It simply feels wrong. Even for Ken who is commonly attributed to "Ryu clone" has evolved so much further than that since the SF1 days to the point where Smash Ryu does several things Ken simply doesn't. 3rd Party characters are always treated with care, and Making Ken an Echo of Ryu is a disservice to Ken at this point in the Street Fighter Franchise.
Well alongside the leopard print, butterfly C4, beard and the green bandana, it's more than a funny reference
Thank you!
those still all seems more like a reference to MGS3 rather than an indication that he’s a mix character. I mean his trophy is named Solid Snake rather than just Snake.
Actually MGS2 Raiden would be a perfect echo conceptually even, since that's basically what he is in that game too.
They said 50+ which is... a lot less than 100. Also I don't think they're really revamping assist trophies, some are just different types than others.
The guy did a really good job, definitely. Also, really liked the art. Anyway, yeah, I can definitely see some changes. But I like the stuff s/he came up with!
I would love for Mallow to also become playable, but I guess I can't get past "Assist Trophy" in my head. Love your ideas, though.
Yoshi fans deserve some love. Right
Zinith
?
Still, it makes a Big Boss Echo feel less special, imagine of Reyn from Xenoblade got in and he uses Shulk's Dsmash and goes "Now it's Reyn time!" Those were references to Reyn in Shulk's moveset so Rey having those makes perfect sense but feels rather redundant
I don't think it is. The leopard print's an alt costume, the C4 is just another reference when Solid Snake also uses C4, the beard is asset reuse, and the bandana is just stretching the color palette.
The only thing I'll address here is the notion that echoes are lesser characters and a disservice to the character that gets made into one.
Snake's face in Smash is really odd as he looks more like Big Boss than Solid Snake himself, while still having Snake's suit. I agree that it's more than a reference and more akin to a mix. Brawl has an actual MGS2 Solid Snake trophy and their beards and general face don't match, while it matches more with the Big Boss trophy in the same game.
Oh no I agree, I love Big Boss but I feel he’s a bit redundant as a character since he shares so much aesthetically with Solid already.
Sakurai might not, but I don't know about Sega and their precious mascot-children. I don't know how deeply involved in the character creation process or how much content needs to be run through them, but if they're as strict as they are with Sonic's skin color, they might see Shadow being a clone a disservice.
I know what you're getting at, I just don't think that logic extends to 3rd parties. For example, Dixie and Dark Samus should both be unique if they were in Smash, but I can accept them as Echoes because, quite frankly, that's probably a fate they are doomed to serve. On the other hand, it seems like a waste to secure the rights of a 3rd party for the only purpose of using them as an Echo, especially when 3rd party characters in Smash have always been handled with utmost care to represent them faithfully.
I dont think sakurai sees a character being an echo as a bad thing, like you said, but i do think sakurai is concerned with making a character feel like they are represented the right way. and i dont think he'll add a character as an echo fighter if he feels that isn't how the character should play anyway (as in he'll never de-clone them cause this was the right way to rep them, not just cause making them an echo is an easy add to the roster).
