Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pakky]

I think I'm having a bit of revelation...

Is Sonic the only Hedgehog character in the games that's fun?

I mean subjective thought, the thought is subjective but... man.

I'm thinking about Sonic too much again.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Damn that got dark

Good thing there’s now technically 5 Fire Emblem characters numbering wise

Poor Pandora if she’s dead...which I hope not cause she was the best villain from the Underworld crew other than Hades

As it stands, it's a Schrodinger's Cat situation; we have not a single clue if Sakurai will do anything with any villain, or do nothing. So I wouldn't worry until the final character is revealed after the game's out.

 

[monadoboy]

the "anime" complaint

People complaining for absurd reasons should never, ever be a detrimental reason for anything.
Saying something is too "anime" is just a ridiculous way to **** on something they don't like.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Fan demand doesn't affect whether something is impossible. Sakurai adding Ridley shows that Sakurai was wrong when he said Ridley was impossible.

Likewise, he felt six Fire Emblem characters was a lot for a 58 character roster. It may not be too much for a 70+ character roster.

Also Sakurai never said that Ridley wouldn't work. HE specifically said that if he tried really hard; he could make him work. I don't know where you got that false information from. He also clearly mentioned that fan outcry from the west was the main reason he decided to add him. Your Ridley comparison is a bad one and outright a false one at that.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

complaining for absurd reasons should never, ever be a detrimental reason for anything.
Saying something is too "anime" is just a ridiculous way to **** on something they don't like.

Frankly, I think people are overreacting when it comes to the complaints about FE swordsmen in Smash since only two of them are "redundant." The rest of them are unique from each other. Besides, almost all FE main characters uses a sword, so the "too many swordman" issue isn't really a Smash issue as much as it is an issue specific to FE making most of their main characters sword-users.

 

[blackghost]

Firstly, from what I've seen, Roy was more popular among casuals and he's low tier so not seeing him online doesn't say much.
Secondly, you can't pick side characters over main ones if protagonist also has a unique ability. It would be biased.

roy was a popular initial pick but after they played cloud and lucina among my friends roy never got use again. once i explained roys mechanic they all made faces about it.

also new esam video. moves stalling on shield will really shake things up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtHEXwq6_Tk

 

[Opossum]

Also Sakurai never said that Ridley wouldn't work. HE specifically said that if he tried really hard; he could make him work. I don't know where you got that false information from. He also clearly mentioned that fan outcry from the west was the main reason he decided to add him. Your Ridley comparison is a bad one and outright a false one at that.

Except Sakurai straight up said that a playable Ridley "wouldn't be Ridley anymore." You can't pick and choose which of his statements to follow.

 

[osby]

I think I'm having a bit of revelation...

Is Sonic the only Hedgehog character in the games that's fun?

I mean subjective thought, the thought is subjective but... man.

I'm thinking about Sonic too much again.

Amy is fun. Are you talking about personality or gameplay?

 

[P.Kat]

Someone from Three Houses will be DLC, 1000%. Same with a Gen 8 Pokemon. Three Houses and Pokemon Switch are going to be Nintendo's two biggest 2019 releases, and I fully expect them to capitalize on them to the full extent. This is true even if both Fire Emblem and Pokemon get base game newcomers, imo.

Yeah it's very possible that it could happen with FE Heroes success and Three Houses looking to be a big release in 2019. I doubt the FE newcomers will have an easy time making it in the base roster, but they can come through easily with DLC. I see Fjorm the Ice lancer making it to represent FE Heroes I would like that, and just as easily, I can see Edelgard make it in too

So I've got a weird feeling that Amaterasu from the game okami might come out left field as dlc or just straight roster. Mainly my suspicion lies in the fact that Okami, despite having remasters every year was NOT in MarvelVsCapcom infinite and has never been data mine'd as dlc in any updates since the game's release which is a bit fishy. Not only that but the remaster for the switch comes at a suspicious time as well. With everyone going with the hype train leaks I feel Sakurai is going to pull Amaterasu out of the blue like he did cloud.

Only time can tell, but I hope you're right, Amaterasu would be amazing to have in Smash. Capcom's not afraid of putting her in crossovers that's for sure (although they definitely dodged a bullet with MVC Infinite), and she would be a left field choice, compared to other hyped characters.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Except Sakurai straight up said that a playable Ridley "wouldn't be Ridley anymore." You can't pick and choose which of his statements to follow.

"Wouldn't be Ridley anymore does not = impossible to implement." His statement also outright proves that Ridley isn't impossible because he literally said that he could make him playable if he really tried. That statement was his thinking for not including him.

What are you trying to convey when the man literally said Ridley wasn't impossible to implement; just hard? He never said Ridley was impossible, which is what your main argument included. In fact, he implied the direct opposite when he said he could make him work. Your FE comparison to Ridley just doesn't hold up because your point was false. We had clones such as Melee -> Smash4 Ganon who had a near direct moveset taken from Falcon and people were clamoring that he didn't have many Ganon like things, or didn't feel like Ganon. Stockholm Syndrome is real; people just accepted him; maybe even liked him as a clone, but many others didn't. He was still playable even though he just felt like a rehashed Falcon. What you could have said was that Sakurai is inconsistent with his beliefs; not the false information that he said "Ridley was impossible". I just felt like you tried to end the discussion and included this as a strong point against him when it was not factual (which killed your argument). A fact that is true is that it was mostly (if not all) fan demand that made Sakurai take the effort and time to implement Ridley in Smash like his original statement said about how he could make him work if he really tried.

Thus your point of "Fan Demand doesn't matter when something is impossible" is entirely irrelevant (frankly) because Sakurai never said he was impossible AND then on Tree-house commenting that "there was fan outcry especially from the west, so we added him in... so enjoy".

I had to comment because your point just wasn't strong (and I dare say falls flat) about your position on True Blue Warrior beliefs. I also believe that DLC characters should be about Fan-demand.

 

[PushDustIn]

Last part of my Melee data mining series. Please enjoy.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Eh, I think if this game gets DLC any new character is fair game. If we get 10 characters now on base roster and have nearly 80 characters, I really don’t think having a Fire Emblem character from the latest game that can do something different from the rest of the Fire Emblem characters in Smash Bros is going to be the end of the world.

I do personally think it’s a bit crazy to think we won’t get a single Fire Emblem character throughout base game AND DLC.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Only time can tell, but I hope you're right, Amaterasu would be amazing to have in Smash. Capcom's not afraid of putting her in crossovers that's for sure (although they definitely dodged a bullet with MVC Infinite), and she would be a left field choice, compared to other hyped characters.

Plus her being on all fours would give Sakurai a template to use, if he ever decided to include Spyro.

 

[Cosmic77]

Regarding FE, I'll just repeat what I said a few weeks ago.

When a lot of people are predicting a character they don't want, that should be a sign to Sakurai that something's wrong. Is getting a seventh FE character amidst all the criticism impossible? Absolutely not. I think a DLC FE character is something that could very well happen. Would that character be a wise choice? Personally, I don't think so.

In terms of adding a seventh FE character in Ultimate, the cons outweigh the pros. A majority of the fanbase isn't vocalizing a desire to get another FE character. In fact, it's practically been the opposite so far. While I do think promoting upcoming games is an understandable practice to use in Smash, I think a line needs to be drawn somewhere, especially when the character you want to add is almost guaranteed to be negatively received.

If promotion is so important to Nintendo, then why not represent the game through an AT or a new stage? Not everything needs to be represented through a playable character.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

As it stands, it's a Schrodinger's Cat situation; we have not a single clue if Sakurai will do anything with any villain, or do nothing. So I wouldn't worry until the final character is revealed after the game's out.

I don’t want her in the game as a playable character, I just wanna know if she’s still alive or not...she was 2nd best woman in Kid Icarus (Viridi top tier woman)

Regarding FE, I'll just repeat what I said a few weeks ago.

When a lot of people are predicting a character they don't want, that should be a sign to Sakurai that something's wrong. Is getting a seventh FE character amidst all the criticism impossible? Absolutely not. I think a DLC FE character is something that could very well happen. Would that character be a wise choice? Personally, I don't think so.

In terms of adding a seventh FE character in Ultimate, the cons outweigh the pros. A majority of the fanbase isn't vocalizing a desire to get another FE character. In fact, it's practically been the opposite so far. While I do think promoting upcoming games is an understandable practice to use in Smash, I think a line needs to be drawn somewhere, especially when the character you want to add is almost guaranteed to be negatively received.

If promotion is so important to Nintendo, then why not represent the game through an AT or a new stage? Not everything needs to be represented through a playable character.

Being playable is the best way to be promoted in Smash tbh (Pit would have probably never gotten a concluding game in Uprising, Captain Falcon would just be some guy who races, Duck Hunt Dog would’ve forever been hated by all, Fire Emblem probably wouldn’t have released games in America, and so on so forth)

I think I'm having a bit of revelation...

Is Sonic the only Hedgehog character in the games that's fun?

I mean subjective thought, the thought is subjective but... man.

I'm thinking about Sonic too much again.

Do you not like your edginess?

Amy is fun. Are you talking about personality or gameplay?

Speaking of Amy...Boom Amy > Any other version of her

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I do personally think it’s a bit crazy to think we won’t get a single Fire Emblem character throughout base game AND DLC.

I don't see it as being crazy. Frankly I think the biggest reason why some people are even speculating the idea of a FE newcomer character is because it has always been a trend since Melee and since we got 3 newcomers in the last game, those people can't really imagine the possibility of no new FE characters.

But hey, if people can argue against the possibility of a Gen 7 Pokemon despite how insanely huge Pokemon is, I don't see the idea of no new FE characters as crazy. I mean Sakurai was concerned about the amount of FE characters, so it's possible he may not add any because he personally think FE representation is satisfactory.

 

[osby]

Eh, I think if this game gets DLC any new character is fair game. If we get 10 characters now on base roster and have nearly 80 characters, I really don’t think having a Fire Emblem character from the latest game that can do something different from the rest of the Fire Emblem characters in Smash Bros is going to be the end of the world.

I do personally think it’s a bit crazy to think we won’t get a single Fire Emblem character throughout base game AND DLC.

I wouldn't object if we get a new fighter from Fire Emblem but I don't know what a newcomer might need so that they wouldn't meet with the same obstacle that prevented Chrom to being playable.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Being playable is the best way to be promoted in Smash tbh (Pit would have probably never gotten a concluding game in Uprising, Captain Falcon would just be some guy who races, Duck Hunt Dog would’ve forever been hated by all, Fire Emblem probably wouldn’t have released games in America, and so on so forth)

It's not about a formerly obscure character/franchise getting attention, but fears of a franchise being perceived as getting too much favoritism, yet continuing to do so despite fan outcry,

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don't see it as being crazy. Frankly I think the biggest reason why some people are even speculating the idea of a FE newcomer character is because it has always been a trend since Melee and since we got 3 newcomers in the last game, those people can't really imagine the possibility of no new FE characters.

The only reason I think it’s crazy is because of something similar to what Opossum said earlier. I do think having 6/~58-60 characters being Fire Emblem may be a bit over the top for Sakurai, but now we’re talking 1 unique character in Edelgard or whoever is picked after we get 10-13 newbies.

Out of potentially 20 newcomers (if we get there, which DLC could do for us), I think taking what Sakurai said is out of context. He was looking at the Smash 4 roster with 6 FE characters, and I honestly don’t blame people for being upset by another Fire Emblem character. But to take Sakurai’s words to say he’ll never/won’t add another Fire Emblem character I think is mischaracterizing what he said.

Everybody has their preferences, but 1 Fire Emblem character out of 20 in a brand new game isn’t much of a problem. After all, we’ve had it way worse with Wii U.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The only reason I think it’s crazy is because of something similar to what Opossum said earlier. I do think having 6/~58-60 characters being Fire Emblem may be a bit over the top for Sakurai, but now we’re talking 1 unique character in Edelgard or whoever is picked after we get 10-13 newbies.

Out of potentially 20 newcomers (if we get there, which DLC could do for us), I think taking what Sakurai said is out of context. He was looking at the Smash 4 roster with 6 FE characters, and I honestly don’t blame people for being upset by another Fire Emblem character. But to take Sakurai’s words to say he’ll never/won’t add another Fire Emblem character I think is mischaracterizing what he said.

Everybody has their preferences, but 1 Fire Emblem character out of 20 in a brand new game isn’t much of a problem. After all, we’ve had it way worse with Wii U.

And if we don't get a FE newcomer at all even after DLC is well and truly finished? Then what?

I mean that's not a crazy scenario. Heck, there might even be a possibility that we don't get any new Xenoblade or Donkey Kong characters as well, either in the base roster or as DLC. Weirder stuff has happened.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

And if we don't get a FE newcomer at all even after DLC is well and truly finished? Then what?

I mean that's not a crazy scenario. Heck, there might even be a possibility that we don't get any new Xenoblade or Donkey Kong characters as well.

Perhaps, but why would Sakurai ignore pretty much every new entry in franchises outside of Mario, Zelda and Pokémon? That would be pretty poor utilization of new content, especially when the Switch has had quality titles on a regular basis.

By the end of DLC we’ll get at least one Xenoblade and/or DK character. I’m definitely not worried about that at all.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

By the end of DLC we’ll get at least one Xenoblade and/or DK character. I’m definitely not worried about that at all.

You can't really guarantee that though. I mean we all thought we were going to get a new Donkey Kong character in Smash 4, whether in the base roster or as DLC, so history can easily repeat itself.

 

[Zerp]

Reminder that even though Sakurai said he thought Corrin was pushing it, he still went through with it and added them anyway, which shows us that even if he thinks there's too many FE characters he's willing to add them. Actions > Words.

 

[Cosmic77]

The only reason I think it’s crazy is because of something similar to what Opossum said earlier. I do think having 6/~58-60 characters being Fire Emblem may be a bit over the top for Sakurai, but now we’re talking 1 unique character in Edelgard or whoever is picked after we get 10-13 newbies.

Out of potentially 20 newcomers (if we get there, which DLC could do for us), I think taking what Sakurai said is out of context. He was looking at the Smash 4 roster with 6 FE characters, and I honestly don’t blame people for being upset by another Fire Emblem character. But to take Sakurai’s words to say he’ll never/won’t add another Fire Emblem character I think is mischaracterizing what he said.

Everybody has their preferences, but 1 Fire Emblem character out of 20 in a brand new game isn’t much of a problem. After all, we’ve had it way worse with Wii U.

Honestly, that would kind of sound like Sakurai would be saying, "Okay, I added 19 non-FE newcomers. Now you guys don't have a leg to stand on when you try to criticize me for adding Edelgard."

Even if it's justified by the numerous other non-FE additions, I think it would be best for Sakurai to lay off FE newcomers for this game. Fans have made it clear that they feel like the number of reps is an issue, so to add another character even when there's an obvious objection to it would feel like Sakurai is intentionally disregarding the feelings of the fanbase. Let the FE complaints simmer down over the years, then Sakurai can go back to adding them in the next game without any hesitation.

 

[ChronoBound]

I do not know why we are having debates about Fire Emblem considering that everyone has been confirmed to return, and there are no popular picks for a newcomer this time around.

My predictions for FE are as follow. If we get another echo fighter for Fire Emblem, it will be of Chrom (probably of Ike). Any true newcomers FE will receive will most likely be for the upcoming Switch title, and probably be from DLC. I see DLC covering a lot of the characters that simply missed the cutoff for Ultimate (Pokemon Generation 8, ARMS, Fire Emblem Three Houses, and possible Xenoblade 2).

I am not confident of Fire Emblem receiving a non-echo newcomer (unless Chrom is turned into a normal clone) on the base roster for Ultimate.

 

[P.Kat]

Plus her being on all fours would give Sakurai a template to use, if he ever decided to include Spyro.

That's true. Unpopular opinion, but I prefer Spyro over Crash, if only because I've played more Spyro game than I ever did any Crash game

If promotion is so important to Nintendo, then why not represent the game through an AT or a new stage? Not everything needs to be represented through a playable character.

But isn't that kind of a double edge question/statement? Considering that could apply to all characters that we all want not matter how likely or unlikely their chances of being newcomers are. In the end only Sakurai can determine when enough is enough in terms of rep, he's a man who willing to break his own rules if it means pleasing the fans. To me putting a limit on reps for playable characters regardless of franchise is just to stifling, if they have a fun and unique moveset I say bring them in regardless of the number of reps.

If there's a character that Sakurai himself would personally like to see in the game cause he thinks their moveset is fun and others would have fun using it. Should he deter his creativity and not release it because out a sea of 60+ characters and DLC, one or two character causes an uproar?

Whether FE newcomers come into the game, or not, it's not gonna be the end all be all, there will be other franchises that will represented as well too, and there will always be people who will complain "Why did this character have to get in?" regardless if they are popular or unpopular.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I do not know why we are having debates about Fire Emblem considering that everyone has been confirmed to return, and there are no popular picks for a newcomer this time around.

We're debating whether or not FE is even going to get a newcomer at all, whether in the base roster or as DLC. Personally, I don't think it's going to happen.

 

[P.Kat]

We're debating whether or not FE is even going to get a newcomer at all, whether in the base roster or as DLC. Personally, I don't think it's going to happen.

I think he might, but only time will tell. Right now I'm just excited to see who Sakurai picked to be our newcomers FE or not.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Last part of my Melee data mining series. Please enjoy.

That trophy battle mode sounds very interesting, even though we have little information about it. Having a virtual trading card game in smash through trophies seems like a fun idea and gives players more of an incentive to earn trophies.

 

[Cosmic77]

But isn't that kind of a double edge question/statement? Considering that could apply to all characters that we all want not matter how likely or unlikely their chances of being newcomers are. In the end only Sakurai can determine when enough is enough in terms of rep, he's a man who willing to break his own rules if it means pleasing the fans. To me putting a limit on reps for playable characters regardless of franchise is just to stifling, if they have a fun and unique moveset I say bring them in regardless of the number of reps.

If there's a character that Sakurai himself would personally like to see in the game cause he thinks their moveset is fun and others would have fun using it. Should he deter his creativity and not release it because out a sea of 60+ characters and DLC, one or two character causes an uproar?

Whether FE newcomers come into the game, or not, it's not gonna be the end all be all, there will be other franchises that will represented as well too, and there will always be people who will complain "Why did this character have to get in?" regardless if they are popular or unpopular.

If fans are actively objecting the idea and Sakurai thinks the character would be poorly-received, then yes, I think he should hold back on the character and look at someone who would bring less controversy.

Truth be told, there's not much of a reason for Sakurai to waste a full year creating a character when he knows well before development even began that people would not only find said character uninteresting, but also likely criticize his decision.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You can't really guarantee that though. I mean we all thought we were going to get a new Donkey Kong character in Smash 4, whether in the base roster or as DLC, so history can easily repeat itself.

It’s speculation. No one can guarantee anything. That’s a moot point. You also can’t guarantee there’s no Fire Emblem character on the base roster.

 

[BlueMagician]

Fans have also made it clear that they want another FE rep as well, and I think Sakurai generally listens to 'for' arguments rather than 'against' arguments, when he listens to any at all.

 

[Idon]

I'm just waiting for Smash 6 where Sakurai will finally TRULY put in Lyn!

Then... and only then, will I have all six Lynfinity stones.

Then with this power, I can merely snap my fingers and make 50% of the roster all Lyns.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Regarding FE, I'll just repeat what I said a few weeks ago.

When a lot of people are predicting a character they don't want, that should be a sign to Sakurai that something's wrong. Is getting a seventh FE character amidst all the criticism impossible? Absolutely not. I think a DLC FE character is something that could very well happen. Would that character be a wise choice? Personally, I don't think so.

In terms of adding a seventh FE character in Ultimate, the cons outweigh the pros. A majority of the fanbase isn't vocalizing a desire to get another FE character. In fact, it's practically been the opposite so far. While I do think promoting upcoming games is an understandable practice to use in Smash, I think a line needs to be drawn somewhere, especially when the character you want to add is almost guaranteed to be negatively received.

If promotion is so important to Nintendo, then why not represent the game through an AT or a new stage? Not everything needs to be represented through a playable character.

I completely agree. FE is really the only series I can think of that a large majority of the fan base groans at whenever a new character is revealed. I know that, for me personally, I don't want a unique newcomer in the base game in any fashion whatsoever, since I know that they would take dev time away from other unique newcomers that, you know, fans actually want.

I dunno, I'm not like this about any other series or character in Smash, but FE just ticks me off for some reason. This is gonna sound bad, but Smash 4 frankly made me hate FE as a whole. I realize that isn't fair at all, but it's true. It just makes me very upset that FE can keep getting characters that really absolutely nobody asked for while DK can't get more than two, despite people literally begging for newcomers (also, DK has sold nearly TEN TIMES as much as FE, mind you). It just goes to show how completely biased Sakurai can be about characters. I just think FE should definitely sit this game out on newcomers, and get some new ATs and stages.

I know there are some FE fans on this thread, so I'm really sorry if this little rant upset you guys. If you have any issues with what I said, let me know and I'll be happy to address them. Just needed to get that out of my system.

 

[jwillenn]

I'm hoping there will be some good display options for during Training/Replay Viewing. Display Staling Data, display Attack Data, display Frame Data, display Inputs, and so on. We need some good playback options for replays too. For example. Slow mo, clip & save. You're watching at normal speed, press a button for slow mo, press another to start recording (press again to stop and save). The saved result is a recording of a clip of a highlight in slow mo. You can send it to replay channel, internal or micro sd card.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Let's play a game; "Nintendo's top echo"

A game where you get to pick only one Echo fighter. Not based on how likely the character is for the game, or how perfect they would fit the role as an echo fighter, but one that you particularly would like to see in the game as an echo. It can be an obscure one, it could be a popular often talked about one. The only requirement is that you have to write a little review on why they should be an echo, and what the character itself means to you! You can comment on other's choices, but be more creative than; "That's most likely not going to happen. Or, what a stupid choice, get outta heah~"

I'll start. Mine is: Black Shadow.
Echo: Captain Falcon.

While I do think that Black Shadow could warrent his own moveset quite well (like most echoes being dicussed), I still think that the best chance he would have had was being an echo, as F-Zero as a series right now is quite dormant. I was kind of against it, but seeing how positivily I reacted towards Daisy, I think I'd be blessed with his appearence either way. Black Shadow to me is pretty cool, as I've been a huge fan of F-Zero for years, and my favourite being GX in the series it had some more personality, and story, were Black Shadow shined through as a badass villain. I'm in favour of good series have some great representation, not for the "rep" count, but at least some more characters that I would personally like to see, and F-Zero being of the original 12, I think it's really something that would be great. I see a lot of people talking about "Ninten" as somewhat of a possibility, but how much probable is a "Mother" character over an F-Zero? Both series have not receieved anything in years. Therefore, I'd also love to see Black Shadow as an echo, as he actually would fit that very well, we would get another villain, and a new F-Zero character. And while Samurai Goroh is my favourite amongst the bunch, Black Shadow comes right behind in terms of my most wanted F-Zero pilots.

 

[Poopyhead]

lol y'all ever wonder if Sakurai hangs out in discussion forums making arguments for unrevealed characters in order to build hype and get a better reaction when they're revealed

he's probably up in 4chan writing another fake leak right now tbh. hell he probably started the waluigi movement just to troll everyone with the assist trophy bit

 

[Pakky]

Welp got around to making Incenaroar, tell me what ya think.

 

[Opossum]

I mean personally I'd take (certain) Fire Emblem newcomers over a DK, Wario, Kirby, Star Fox, or Xenoblade Chronicles character any day of the week, detractors be damned. Let them cry about it later.

 

[Pakky]

Amy is fun. Are you talking about personality or gameplay?

True depends on the game though.

Also, why doesn't she have the ability to go 'Super'?