Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CodakTheWarrior]

I mean personally I'd take (certain) Fire Emblem newcomers over a DK, Wario, Kirby, Star Fox, or Xenoblade Chronicles character any day of the week, detractors be damned. Let them cry about it later.

Well then I'm sure you realize this but you're in the minority. It isn't fair that the FE fan base keeps on getting their wants met by Sakurai, but the much bigger fan bases of the other franchises can't even get a third character (DK

 

[Staarih]

DLC is additional content so even if Sakurai did add someone from Three Houses, one could just simply not get it if it’s ”too many FE characters” in their game. Sure, it may take time from developing some other character, but DLC would likely be many characters, so one ”plus” on top of a pool of some others doesn’t feel too much of a detriment to me.

Honestly, after Spring Man and Rex/Pyra, I feel like someone from Three Houses could very well end up as DLC, the timing of it coming out in spring 2019 fits sort of well imo.

 

[osby]

I completely agree. FE is really the only series I can think of that a large majority of the fan base groans at whenever a new character is revealed. I know that, for me personally, I don't want a unique newcomer in the base game in any fashion whatsoever, since I know that they would take dev time away from other unique newcomers that, you know, fans actually want.

I dunno, I'm not like this about any other series or character in Smash, but FE just ticks me off for some reason. This is gonna sound bad, but Smash 4 frankly made me hate FE as a whole. I realize that isn't fair at all, but it's true. It just makes me very upset that FE can keep getting characters that really absolutely nobody asked for while DK can't get more than two, despite people literally begging for newcomers (also, DK has sold nearly TEN TIMES as much as FE, mind you). It just goes to show how completely biased Sakurai can be about characters. I just think FE should definitely sit this game out on newcomers, and get some new ATs and stages.

I know there are some FE fans on this thread, so I'm really sorry if this little rant upset you guys. If you have any issues with what I said, let me know and I'll be happy to address them. Just needed to get that out of my system.

"Absolutely nobody asked for"?
Come on, now.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'm just waiting for Smash Switch where Sakyrai will finally TRULY put in Lyn!

Then... and only then, will I have all six Lynfinity stones.
View attachment 153962

Then with this power, I can merely snap my fingers and make 50% of the roster all Lyns.

Yes to all of this Lyn

It's not about a formerly obscure character/franchise getting attention, but fears of a franchise being perceived as getting too much favoritism, yet continuing to do so despite fan outcry

They’re just examples of Smash promotions that got them over. Fire Emblem earned the amount of characters in Smash with years of trying to survive only to finally hit the big time, as well as having more character potential than most Nintendo series due to the overload of heroes/villains in the series (something only Mario, Pokémon, Zelda, and Kirby can really do); as for the fan outcry, seems like the only way outcries work is when it’s for a truly deserving character and not something filled with bias+hate (look at Ridley or the Inklings and compared to someone like Waluigi)

True depends on the game though.

Also, why doesn't she have the ability to go 'Super'?

cause Amy is too op for that

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

"Absolutely nobody asked for"?
Come on, now.

Alright that was an over exaggeration my bad. But when you compare characters like Robin and Corrin to characters like K rool and Dixie, you'll notice a big disparity between what's wanted and what actually gets in the game, which I think isn't right.

 

[Zerp]

Well then I'm sure you realize this but you're in the minority. It isn't fair that the FE fan base keeps on getting their wants met by Sakurai, but the much bigger fan bases of the other franchises can't even get a third character (DK

Exactly, as much people hate the "reps" argument, it exists for a reason. If a fanbase is roughly as big as another and we can use sales to prove it, it'd only be fair for them both to receive similar amounts of playable characters and/or additional content (with characters being weighted above the other content because let's be real, that's what people really care about), because it'd please similar amounts of people. Obviously giving a smaller fanbase more and more and more and more content over and over again before a bigger one gets anything they want is going to create negative feelings, because you're giving a small group of people a lot and sort of ignoring a much larger group, how could they not end up envious? it's ideal to give everyone the attention they deserve and not weigh it too much towards just one part of the overall Smash fanbase.

 

[Idon]

Issue with implementing FE characters is it's like one big gashapon game.

You'll spend all day hoping, PRAYING, you get the ONE character you've desired for oh so long, but you'll keep getting characters you don't want, and when people ask "Haven't you had enough?" the answer is NO because it's not about the quantity of characters you get, it's about getting the ONE you want.

I could get 99 Lucinas and I'll still play this dumb game, because I want ONE L!Lyn, come ON IntSys.

 

[GunBlaze]

Issue with implementing FE characters is it's like one big gashapon game.

You'll spend all day hoping, PRAYING, you get the ONE character you've desired for oh so long, but you'll keep getting characters you don't want, and when people ask "Haven't you had enough," the answer is NO because it's not about the quantity of characters you get, it's about getting the ONE you want.

I could get 99 Lucinas and I'll still play this dumb game, because I want ONE L!Lyn, come ON IntSys.

Gacha was a mistake.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Exactly, as much people hate the "reps" argument, it exists for a reason. If a fanbase is roughly as big as another and we can use sales to prove it, it'd only be fair for them both to receive similar amounts of playable characters and/or additional content (with characters being weighted above the other content because let's be real, that's what people really care about), because it'd please similar amounts of people. Obviously giving a smaller fanbase more and more and more and more content over and over again before a bigger one gets anything they want is going to create negative feelings, because you're giving a small group of people a lot and sort of ignoring a much larger group, how could they not end up envious? it's ideal to give everyone the attention they deserve and not weigh it too much towards just one part of the overall Smash fanbase.

THank you, that was very well written. I was curious not too long ago and looked up the sales of Ninendo's biggest franchises to see how FE stacked up. I found out that FE is Nintendo's 13th biggest franchise in terms of sales. If this doesn't show you how disjointed the sales-to-characters issue here is I don't know what will.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Issue with implementing FE characters is it's like one big gashapon game.

You'll spend all day hoping, PRAYING, you get the ONE character you've desired for oh so long, but you'll keep getting characters you don't want, and when people ask "Haven't you had enough," the answer is NO because it's not about the quantity of characters you get, it's about getting the ONE you want.

I could get 99 Lucinas and I'll still play this dumb game, because I want ONE L!Lyn, come ON IntSys.

Getting the character you want is always a satisfaction, especially when you get them on your first try...which is hard to do without luck

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Can we stop with this "Us VS Them" mentality? I understand being disappointed at not getting what you want but getting mad at people for being a fan of characters who you didn't want isn't going to help you, it'll make you look worse

 

[P.Kat]

I'm just waiting for Smash Switch where Sakyrai will finally TRULY put in Lyn!

Then... and only then, will I have all six Lynfinity stones.
View attachment 153962

Then with this power, I can merely snap my fingers and make 50% of the roster all Lyns.

Then this better be her Final Smash (Even though she could easily do it by herself )

Poor Jiraiya

 

[ChronoBound]

Fans have also made it clear that they want another FE rep as well, and I think Sakurai generally listens to 'for' arguments rather than 'against' arguments, when he listens to any at all.

What? Fans have made clear the opposite. There is little demand for another FE newcomer. People want to see newcomers for DK, Mario, and Kirby (just Bandanna Dee), and Xenoblade. Fire Emblem is pretty much the only series now where if you talk about a newcomer there are a lot of groans. DK's situation right now is the equivalent if Meta Knight and King Dedede were never added to Brawl or Smash 4, and would have yet to be confirmed for Ultimate.

The DKC trilogy was among the highest selling games for the SNES, to the point where even the butchered GBA ports sold well. Heck, even DKC3 sold two million copies in Japan alone, and sold on par with Chrono Trigger of all games. I can easily understand the frustration of DK fans.

Fire Emblem is perfectly fine as it is right now, and most other series are relatively adequate to be fair. The only series that is seriously lacking critical actors at this point is DK.

 

[ratmon19]

I think the fire emblem roster was find considering is kind of like pokemon with its huge roster, I just dont wanna see any this time around since there won't be many spots to begin with. If you look at each franchise and how many games they have had/sold then I see why it upsets people.

 

[Zeox]

What? Fans have made clear the opposite. There is little demand for another FE newcomer. People want to see newcomers for DK, Mario, and Kirby (just Bandanna Dee), and Xenoblade. Fire Emblem is pretty much the only series now where if you talk about a newcomer there are a lot of groans. DK's situation right now is the equivalent if Meta Knight and King Dedede were never added to Brawl or Smash 4, and would have yet to be confirmed for Ultimate.

The DKC trilogy was among the highest selling games for the SNES, to the point where even the butchered GBA ports sold well. Heck, even DKC3 sold two million copies in Japan alone, and sold on par with Chrono Trigger of all games. I can easily understand the frustration of DK fans.

Fire Emblem is perfectly fine as it is right now, and most other series are relatively adequate to be fair. The only series that is seriously lacking critical actors at this point is DK.

Fans also want more villains too... or at leas I want...

 

[osby]

Alright that was an over exaggeration my bad. But when you compare characters like Robin and Corrin to characters like K rool and Dixie, you'll notice a big disparity between what's wanted and what actually gets in the game, which I think isn't right.

Smash has a lot of characters that has less demand than some characters that isn't in game. It is a fighting game, not a popularity contest.

EDIT: Also I don't know why you are repeatedly presenting Fire Emblem as the enemy of Donkey Kong Country. Not putting Robin and Corrin in the game wouldn't give us Dixie and K.Rool.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Then, first, we need more Mii Fighters.

But who's really asking for mii fighters when compared to the two DK characters? The truth of the matter is, DK really deserves more characters than FE EVER would, its just people around here won't accept that for what ever reason.

 

[Koopaul]

Okay sorry to bring this back up. I was away for a while but I can't just let this slide. I'll go through each point one by one.

And yet we have Pokemon Trainer who is the same thing. He's the main name of the character, yet you never play as him. He's still the "focus" to a degree, moreso in Ultimate where he's the only one with a stock icon.

With Pokemon Trainer, all three characters are tied to each other. If Charizard dies, that mean Squirtle will have one less stock. But at the end of the day, it is still the Pokemon that are the playable characters and it is why Pokemon Trainer has three numbers instead of one.

Pikmin are most clearly the main point of the moveset. Olimar is just the "controller" of them.

But you don't control the Pikmin. You fling them at your enemies and smack people with them. They are more like tools than anything. The only one you directly control is Olimar.

Even in his own game the story focuses around Olimar or Alph and his team. Not the Pikmin. The first game opens up on Olimar and the objective revolves around Olimar. If the Pikmin were the stars, the game would be told from their perspective as this weird spaceman guy lands on their planet.

You can only fully KO him because of how the moveset is designed, which is that you can summon infinite Pikmin essentially.

You act like all Olimar does in Smash is stand around and summon Pikmin while the player attacks people as the Pikmin. No! You control Olimar, and you jump, dodge, shield and attack as Olimar. You are Olimar! You're Pikmin are your weapons. And you can even attack without them.

Just like the regular game. And the game is still called Pikmin too, despite this.

The Legend of Zelda has "Zelda" in the title therefor Link is not the main character.

Alph is a pretty bad idea for an Echo, though. There's little reason to do so as there's still no Pikmin(the main stars of the franchise, not the Captains) to promote. The only one requires all new animations(Rock Pikmin), which already blurs the line if he should be a clone or Echo. It's still most logical to wait for more Pikmin to be created to create an interesting moveset for Alph. He's literally the exact same as Olimar in the home games. This is also why he makes perfect sense as an Alt costume. There's literally zero differences from him or Olimar. There's no reason to outright separate them right now. Echo for the sake of an Echo is silly.

Who care about how things work in their home games? Smash certainly doesn't. Dr. Mario is literally Mario in a doctors outfit. In Melee he heavier and slower but more powerful than Mario. Is there an home game reason for it? When you play Dr. Mario on the NES does it explain that Dr. Mario is in fact stronger thanregular Mario? No of course not. He was just an easy addition for the sake of an easy addition. And these echos are easy additions for the sake of padding out the roster. Nothing more nothing less. I can't believe you think home game accuracy matters in Smash. SMASH of all games! They could just make Alph a lighter and faster Olimar and people would just accept it just like they accepted Dr. Mario being a slower stronger Mario for no good reason.

Alph and Olimar are exactly alike in their games and completely interchangeable. You could replace one with the other and the gameplay would be the same entirely. Echoes have all been characters who have actual different abilities at some point among their series' appearances. Even very little ones.

I'll once again point out Dr. Mario but also mention Dark Pit who plays exactly like Pit in his games. Finally I'll bring up how all the Koopalings are costumes even though it makes no sense for them to be. Seriously, I'm sorry, but your arguments are really bad given the nature of the Smash series.

 

[osby]

But who's really asking for mii fighters when compared to the two DK characters? The truth of the matter is, DK really deserves more characters than FE EVER would, its just people around here won't accept that for what ever reason.

Changed the post, sorry.

 

[N3ON]

Figured people might find this interesting. All credit to RomanceDawn , thanks for the info!
--

Ok sorry for the ultra late update. I just wanted to be a little cautious even though everything I'm about to mention is more or less known or could be inferred by everything we've already learned about Smash development. This was not an interview, I'm not apart of any gaming organization or anything of the sort. It was just 2 Nintendo fans chatting it up and everything I'm about to mention is super simplified from our half hour conversation.

So today at the San Diego Comicon I ran into Nintendo Treehouse's JC. Super duper nice guy. You can tell he loves working at Nintendo and is absolutely proud of it. One of the first things I did was tell him to thank Sakurai for Ridley. I mentioned how I am married with children, I mentioned my profession and that I was well adjusted mentally(allegedly). I told him I waited 17 years for Ridley to be playable and I cried real tears of joy during the direct. I showed him the video I posted last month and he sure got a kick out of it. He more or less told me those are the types of reactions he and Sakurai loves from the fans and thats when we got into Ridley discussion.

- The Treehouse folks have been very aware of the constant Ridley debates for years. How could they not right?
- Treehouse tentacles are all over the net.
- Naturally Sakurai gets feedback from Treehouse and wonders who would be a big deal.
- Apparently a lot of characters are discussed but even the treehouse guys don't know who ultimately gets picked.
- Ridley is brought up as the big deal but over in Japan it's hard for Sakurai and the team to understand, he wants to know why.
- People aren't talking about Ridley and Metroid over there like we do.
- Metroid doesn't sell so well out there and even over here in the west it doesn't exactly light up the sales charts.
- It gets explained that Metroid carries a prestige with it and the fans who love it they really love it.
-There were other talks about Sakurai's comments regarding Ridley after Smash 4 released, like the too big stuff but I don't really remember.
- Sakurai in the Direct basically said he hopes we don't expect too many newcomers this time around. I'm not quoting JC but man when I heard him say it the way he said it in his own words there was some clear cut weight to the statement.
- Balancing all 60+ characters is very difficult and it takes a ton of work. Thats a big reason why there will probably be less newcomers than we are used to.
- Getting everyone back was a huge priority.

You look at my posts since the Direct I didn't really believe Sakurai and have been thinking 10 total including 2 or 3 echos. Now I'm taking Sakurai's words seriously. I'm just assuming all of this of course.

We didn't discuss the possibility of DLC at all but after that exchange my personal guess is the majority of our newcomers will come from DLC.

- We talked about what it was like working for Nintendo and that there are certain people who just fit right in with the Nintendo work place culture.
- Nintendo is extremely small compared to other developers.
- Iwata was very familiar with all of those Treehouse guys and his passing was difficult for everyone. Not just guys sitting at the very top.
- I told him Dixie is my final request.

Let me think of what else we talked about. The topics of newcomers and Ridley stood out the most by far.

Sorry if you expected some major news revelation.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Alright that was an over exaggeration my bad. But when you compare characters like Robin and Corrin to characters like K rool and Dixie, you'll notice a big disparity between what's wanted and what actually gets in the game, which I think isn't right.

Even if Robin himself wasn't specifically that highly demanded within the Smash communities, there were still a general demand for a FE character that wasn't "just another sword user." There is a reason why there was so much rejoicing when Robin was revealed in July 2014.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Smash has a lot of characters that has less demand than some characters that isn't in game. It is a fighting game, not a popularity contest.

EDIT: Also I don't know why you are repeatedly presenting Fire Emblem as the enemy of Donkey Kong Country. Not putting Robin and Corrin in the game wouldn't give us Dixie and K.Rool.

The reason I have FE against DK right now is to show the point of FE having a ton of characters for such a niche franchise. DK is far more well known across the globe when compared to FE, and one look at the sales will show that. Really, as I said earlier, there's are several other series with an even bigger sales-to-characters gap, like Yoshi, Wario, StarFox, Metroid, and, heck, even Wii Fit and Duck Hunt (I know those last two have literally no demand for characters but still). It really says something when FE receives a new character and actively upset over it. It seems like a dumb idea for Sakurai to spend upwards of a year on a unique FE newcomer when he knows full well that the fans will be upset over it

Even if Robin himself wasn't specifically that highly demanded within the Smash communities, there were still a general demand for a FE character that wasn't "just another sword user." There is a reason why there was so much rejoicing when Robin was revealed in July 2014.

That's true at the time. Now, there is hardly any demand for an FE newcomer at all

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Fans also want more villains too... or at leas I want...

Ridley fills up the amount of villains originally planned for Smash

But who's really asking for mii fighters when compared to the two DK characters? The truth of the matter is, DK really deserves more characters than FE EVER would, its just people around here won't accept that for what ever reason.

The only DK characters who deserve to join Smash are Dixie, Cranky or Funky (the other could be an assist), and K Rool. Add any of those DK characters with the rest of the Mario cast and there would likely be people being annoyed by the amount of Mario characters...which would be a surprise cause Mario

That's true at the time. Now, there is hardly any demand for an FE newcomer at all

there were tons of people who wanted Lyn in Smash as a fighter

 

[osby]

The reason I have FE against DK right now is to show the point of FE having a ton of characters for such a niche franchise. DK is far more well known across the globe when compared to FE, and one look at the sales will show that. Really, as I said earlier, there's are several other series with an even bigger sales-to-characters gap, like Yoshi, Wario, StarFox, Metroid, and, heck, even Wii Fit and Duck Hunt (I know those last two have literally no demand for characters but still). It really says something when FE receives a new character and actively upset over it. It seems like a dumb idea for Sakurai to spend upwards of a year on a unique FE newcomer when he knows full well that the fans will be upset over it

Again, I don't really want a Fire Emblem character in particular and actually I want to play as Dixie. We didn't get any newcomers from either series and I'm still insisting on Fire Emblem getting 3 fighters while DKC getting none was simply a result of timing and planning, not as a way of saying one is more important than other.

Buuut... If both series get a newcomer, it'll be nice for me. I find it incredibly hard to sympathize with DK fans after whole mess that was Smash For speculation.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Ridley fills up the amount of villains originally planned for Smash

The only DK characters who deserve to join Smash are Dixie, Cranky or Funky (the other could be an assist), and K Rool. Add any of those DK characters with the rest of the Mario cast and there would likely be people being annoyed by the amount of Mario characters...which would be a surprise cause Mario

there were tons of people who wanted Lyn in Smash as a fighter

FIrst of all, DK characters are not Mario characters at all. They are different series, and Smash treats them as such, so we should too.

Second, the fact that Lyn didn't make it in, if anything, shows to me that Sakurai really might be realizing he went way too far with FE with Corrin. If he isn't willing to add the most requested FE character in the last Smash game for, presumably, many years, why would he add a far less requested one?

 

[P.Kat]

cause Amy is too op for that

It also doesn't help to push the Sonic button... Never push the Sonic button.

 

[Opelucid]

I'm fine with another Fire Emblem character as long as they use a different weapon.

 

[Mutsukki]

- Sakurai in the Direct basically said he hopes we don't expect too many newcomers this time around. I'm not quoting JC but man when I heard him say it the way he said it in his own words there was some clear cut weight to the statement.

Yup, I've been thinking a long time now, with the fact that it's been a month and we didn't have any substancial new information... I'm pretty sure we get less than 5 newcomers (excluding echo) this time around. I'm probably betting around 2 more and that's it, and like 2 or 3 echo. DLC is always an option, but for the base game, Sakurai wasn't being pessimistic this time around, he had a lot of time to put a lot of people on Smash 4 besides saying to the contrary. He has 5 months here (of course i'm aware new characters are probably almost finalized, but still, if he had a lot we'd be hearing about them now)

 

[osby]

FIrst of all, DK characters are not Mario characters at all. They are different series, and Smash treats them as such, so we should too.

Second, the fact that Lyn didn't make it in, if anything, shows to me that Sakurai really might be realizing he went way too far with FE with Corrin. If he isn't willing to add the most requested FE character in the last Smash game for, presumably, many years, why would he add a far less requested one?

Lyn likely didn't get in because
A. You can do so many movesets depending solely on swords and more importantly,
B. From what I've seen, Sakurai really doesn't go out of his way to add characters who past their prime. Like Lyn, Skull Kid or K.Rool
Also Waluigi didn't get in but Daisy did. One character not being playable doesn't tell everything about a character from another franchise.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

B. From what I've seen, Sakurai really doesn't go out of his way to add characters who past their prime. Like Lyn, Skull Kid or K.Rool

Skull Kid's game literally had a remake in the same year the roster for Ultimate was being conceptualized. How is he even "past his prime"?

 

[osby]

Skull Kid's game literally had a remake in the same year the roster for Ultimate was being conceptualized. How is he even "past his prime"?

Maybe "past his prime" wasn't the correct wording.
Still, we already got Young Link, so Majora's Mask is probably checked.

 

[Opossum]

Well then I'm sure you realize this but you're in the minority. It isn't fair that the FE fan base keeps on getting their wants met by Sakurai, but the much bigger fan bases of the other franchises can't even get a third character (DK

I know it's an unpopular opinion. I just don't care. Why should I care about "franchise fairness" in a video game? It's a product I intend to buy, so of course I'd focus on what I personally want from it. Smash isn't some big humanitarian effort or something that actually impacts people's lives, so other people being upset over it isn't going to impact what I want.

That and you act like the Fire Emblem fanbase is a hivemind. Not everyone likes the same characters. Hell, among the six we have, Robin, Ike, and Roy do absolutely nothing for me, while Corrin is honestly one I dislike from a character standpoint. Marth and Lucina are the only ones I really like, being my fifth and roughly-twenty-first favorite characters in the franchise, respectively.

 

[BlueMagician]

- Ridley is brought up as the big deal but over in Japan it's hard for Sakurai and the team to understand, he wants to know why.
- People aren't talking about Ridley and Metroid over there like we do.

I can give a bit of insight to the Ridley part, it's because Japan's not as interested in villains like the Anglo-sphere seems to be. K. Rool seems to be a weird exception. (edit: I mean for Smash)

 

[Idon]

Maybe "past his prime" wasn't the correct wording.
Still, we already got Young Link, so Majora's Mask is probably checked.

I dunno, nothing about YLink says MM to me... signs all point to early OoT Link

 

[osby]

I can give a bit of insight to the Ridley part, it's because Japan's not as interested in villains like the Anglo-sphere seems to be. K. Rool seems to be a weird exception. (edit: I mean for Smash)

I personally never understood why people request villains too much specifically. It took me quite a while until I realize how much westerners love them.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

FIrst of all, DK characters are not Mario characters at all. They are different series, and Smash treats them as such, so we should too.

Second, the fact that Lyn didn't make it in, if anything, shows to me that Sakurai really might be realizing he went way too far with FE with Corrin. If he isn't willing to add the most requested FE character in the last Smash game for, presumably, many years, why would he add a far less requested one?

Only Smash treats DK as separate from the Mario series, which makes it easier to have more characters in (they’re all apart of the same Mario world, so saying they’re not Mario characters isn’t correct. Just because there’s characters exclusive to the DK side of things doesn’t mean they’re not Mario characters).

“The Mario universe is so expansive, in fact, that the last four characters are considered stars of their own sub-universes: Yoshi from the Yoshi universe, Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong from the Donkey Kong universe, and Wariofrom the Wario universe”...Hell, the Super Mario and DKC games both spun off of the Donkey Kong arcade game...that alone is enough proof for them all to be under the same franchise (regardless of Smash having to separate them all from each other)

As for Lyn, it was more likely that her massive popularity spike/hit/fans finally spoke up too late for her to be a candidate (however there’s still Celica/Alm and any of the Three Houses lords)

It also doesn't help to push the Sonic button... Never push the Sonic button.

Perfect...but Boom Amy is Perfection

 

[monadoboy]

THank you, that was very well written. I was curious not too long ago and looked up the sales of Ninendo's biggest franchises to see how FE stacked up. I found out that FE is Nintendo's 13th biggest franchise in terms of sales. If this doesn't show you how disjointed the sales-to-characters issue here is I don't know what will.

Sales-to-characters is EXTREMELY unfair to Sakurai and the development team. It's obvious they count stages, items, enemies, Assists, Poke Ball Pokemon as representations of the franchises. Fire Emblem has very little stages and one Assist. That's it. Pokemon has a complete sub-section of summoning items in the Poke Balls, Zelda gets a load of items, assists and a good number of stages.

The game has a lot of content aside from the characters. Come on, let's not throw the effort, hours and love that goes into items/etc. just because you arbitrarily don't want them to count for anything.

 

[osby]

I know it's an unpopular opinion. I just don't care. Why should I care about "franchise fairness" in a video game? It's a product I intend to buy, so of course I'd focus on what I personally want from it. Smash isn't some big humanitarian effort or something that actually impacts people's lives, so other people being upset over it isn't going to impact what I want.

That and you act like the Fire Emblem fanbase is a hivemind. Not everyone likes the same characters. Hell, among the six we have, Robin, Ike, and Roy do absolutely nothing for me, while Corrin is honestly one I dislike from a character standpoint. Marth and Lucina are the only ones I really like, being my fifth and roughly-twenty-first favorite characters in the franchise, respectively.

This reminded me Fire Emblem only ever got its main characters, not side characters, even consistent ones like Tiki.


And just how many Fire Emblem characters I'd rather have in the game instead of K.Rool.

 

[N3ON]

I can give a bit of insight to the Ridley part, it's because Japan's not as interested in villains like the Anglo-sphere seems to be. K. Rool seems to be a weird exception. (edit: I mean for Smash)

Well, the villains popular in Japan are already in. In the Melee poll, four of the five top votes were for "antagonists": Bowser, Dedede, Wario, and Ganondorf. And they like K. Rool. They're just less interested in Metroid overall. Fwiw they are (or were) more interested in F-Zero and Mother villains than us. They also care more about Magolor than we do.

How many remaining villains do we as westerners even clamour loudly for? K. Rool... and... Dark Samus? And these days it's mostly because of the echo.

 

[Houndstooth]

lol y'all ever wonder if Sakurai hangs out in discussion forums making arguments for unrevealed characters in order to build hype and get a better reaction when they're revealed

How do you think the Geno hype happened during the Brawl days and now? He started it.

/s