Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[---]

Yup, I've been thinking a long time now, with the fact that it's been a month and we didn't have any substancial new information... I'm pretty sure we get less than 5 newcomers (excluding echo) this time around. I'm probably betting around 2 more and that's it, and like 2 or 3 echo. DLC is always an option, but for the base game, Sakurai wasn't being pessimistic this time around, he had a lot of time to put a lot of people on Smash 4 besides saying to the contrary. He has 5 months here (of course i'm aware new characters are probably almost finalized, but still, if he had a lot we'd be hearing about them now)

I'm not really sure why we keep expecting substantial new info when we got 90% of the game upfront. At this point I'm only expecting 3 more newcomers to go with Nintendo Directs (Simon, Pre-Launch, & Post Launch) with Echoes being pointless to guess numbers on.

I can give a bit of insight to the Ridley part, it's because Japan's not as interested in villains like the Anglo-sphere seems to be. K. Rool seems to be a weird exception. (edit: I mean for Smash)

I do remember hearing Japan support Black Shadow as a character, though I think that had to do more with his VA.

How do you think the Geno hype happened during the Brawl days and now? He started it.

/s

Wasn't it Fatmanonice who started the Geno meme?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

The whole leaks thing

Here's another fun one

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/424801625

Spoiler: Supposive leak

Unique fighters

King k rool
Geno
Yuri lowell
Travis touchdown

Echos
Dark samus
Shadow
Hilda

Brawl style break the targe
Race to the finish
Adventure mode: you chose between the one from melee or the new one

I call it the cracker leak

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I dunno, nothing about YLink says MM to me... signs all point to early OoT Link

And it's not as if Skull Kid's merits begins and ends with "repping" Majora's Mask.

Sales-to-characters is EXTREMELY unfair to Sakurai and the development team. It's obvious they count stages, items, enemies, Assists, Poke Ball Pokemon as representations of the franchises. Fire Emblem has very little stages and one Assist. That's it. Pokemon has a complete sub-section of summoning items in the Poke Balls, Zelda gets a load of items, assists and a good number of stages.

The game has a lot of content aside from the characters. Come on, let's not throw the effort, hours and love that goes into items/etc. just because you arbitrarily don't want them to count for anything.

In terms of what impacts and matters to everyone (whether it be the general audience or Nintendo) in terms of hype, sales and general marketing, characters > everything else. Whilst other stuff matters, character rosters are seen as the heart and soul of crossovers and the main selling point for a general audience.

 

[ChronoBound]

Well, the villains popular in Japan are already in. In the Melee poll, four of the five top votes were for "antagonists": Bowser, Dedede, Wario, and Ganondorf. And they like K. Rool. They're just less interested in Metroid overall. Fwiw they are (or were) more interested in F-Zero and Mother villains than us. They also care more about Magolor than we do.

How many remaining villains do we as westerners even clamour loudly for? K. Rool... and... Dark Samus? And these days it's mostly because of the echo.

This is off topic, but both of those villains making it in would be incredible in terms of the odds they faced and their respective circumstances. Both have been gone from their respective franchises for over ten years. Both making it would be as a result of extraordinary circumstance, VERY extraordinary circumstances. K. Rool getting in would be be a result of Sakurai even putting up a ballot to begin with, and K. Rool performing extremely well in all three major territories (we are talking among the Top 5 most wanted newcomers). Dark Samus making it in as a result of Sakurai wanting to add more echoes as a result of how newcomer poor Ultimate will be. We shall see whether one of them or both make it in, but regardless, both of these characters are facing circumstances that would not even make them valid for consideration in ordinary circumstances.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Y'all talking about who between FE and DK should get a character.

Meanwhile, if I had a choice, I would pick mah man Malos and Ultimate roster would be a 11/10 for me.

But it aint going to happen, so im just happy I can still dunk peoples with Ganondorf.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The whole leaks thing

Here's another fun one

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/424801625

Spoiler: Supposive leak

Unique fighters

King k rool
Geno
Yuri lowell
Travis touchdown

Echos
Dark samus
Shadow
Hilda

Brawl style break the targe
Race to the finish
Adventure mode: you chose between the one from melee or the new one

I call it the cracker leak

Obviously fake, but Yuri would be hella neat as a Tales rep if we didn’t get Lloyd

also Halure as a stage pls it’s heckin pretty

 

[N3ON]

The whole leaks thing

Here's another fun one

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/424801625

Spoiler: Supposive leak

Unique fighters

King k rool
Geno
Yuri lowell
Travis touchdown

Echos
Dark samus
Shadow
Hilda

Brawl style break the targe
Race to the finish
Adventure mode: you chose between the one from melee or the new one

I call it the cracker leak

Suda51 did an interview a couple months back where he more or less said it's up to the fans/media to convince Nintendo to include Travis. Not a statement you'd make if your character is already in the game.

 

[Idon]

And it's not as if Skull Kid's merits begins and ends with "repping" Majora's Mask.



In terms of what impacts and matters to everyone (whether it be the general audience or Nintendo) in terms of hype, sales and general marketing, characters > everything else. Whilst other stuff matters, character rosters are seen as the heart and soul of crossovers and the main selling point for a general audience.

Well no, of course not.
If it was up to me, this game would look like a mini Hyrule Warriors, haha.

Two of my most wanteds were Hyrule Warriors style Young Link and Skully Boy.

 

[Zeox]

Villains I want:
1. Porky: played Earthbound and Mother 3 for the first time months ago, that little fat dude is such a souless monster and have such a strong personality that it would be awesome to have him. Before playing any Mother game, I thought Ridley was the most evil Nintendo character, but now... I am not so sure.
2. King K. Rool: I played the DKC Trilogy when I was a kid, I would like to have him but honestly, is just more of having him because is about time than want him as a character itself.
3. Black Shadow: Now, I am no F-Zero fan, in fact I never even played, but to be honest I just feel bad for that franchise, it has been there since the beginning on 64 and is the only one that didn't got anything new after all these games, and now that Ganondorf is less of a clone than ever and the Echoes are a thing, I think it would be really nice to have him.
4. Medusa: Mostly because I like a lot her design, not a Kid Icarus fan or anything, is just that i like a lady with snakes in her head.

 

[BlueMagician]

How many remaining villains do we as westerners even clamour loudly for?

I wouldn't say it's that westerners are loud about a particular character so much as the broad interest in general. In no particular order (aside from K.Rool and Dark Samus) : Marx, Medusa, Fawful, Pig Ganon, Waluigi*, Metal Sonic, Vaati, Black Knight, Kamek/Magikoopa, Giegue/Giygas, Dark Matter, Sylux

*technically

 

[Zeox]

Villains I want:
1. Porky: played Earthbound and Mother 3 for the first time months ago, that little fat dude is such a souless monster and have such a strong personality that it would be awesome to have him. Before playing any Mother game, I thought Ridley was the most evil Nintendo character, but now... I am not so sure.
2. King K. Rool: I played the DKC Trilogy when I was a kid, I would like to have him but honestly, is just more of having him because is about time than want him as a character itself.
3. Black Shadow: Now, I am no F-Zero fan, in fact I never even played, but to be honest I just feel bad for that franchise, it has been there since the beginning on 64 and is the only one that didn't got anything new after all these games, and now that Ganondorf is less of a clone than ever and the Echoes are a thing, I think it would be really nice to have him.
4. Medusa: Mostly because I like a lot her design, not a Kid Icarus fan or anything, is just that i like a lady with snakes in her head.

By the way, if Marx or Dark Matter got confirmed, they would top K. Rool, but I already assumed they wouldn't be in unless DLC, so I already discard them from the list

 

[N3ON]

I wouldn't say it's that westerners are loud about a particular character so much as the broad interest in general. In no particular order (aside from K.Rool and Dark Samus) : Marx, Medusa, Fawful, Pig Ganon, Waluigi*, Metal Sonic, Vaati, Black Knight, Kamek/Magikoopa, Giegue/Giygas, Dark Matter, Sylux

*technically

The main difference is that the western fanbase is more mobilized so it's easier to hone in on support for these mid-low level requests, it's not that Japan doesn't share a majority of these or have their own favourite villains of lukewarm popularity there as well...

I thought we were talking about the actual popular characters.

 

[Roberto zampari]

If Ridley is confirmed as a playable character, i wonder what would happen with the Subspace Emissary Bosses like Petey Piranha, Pokey Minch, Rayquazza and Tabuu. Would they become fighters?

 

[Deleted member]

If Ridley is confirmed as a playable character

Uhhh....

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

If Ridley is confirmed as a playable character, i wonder what would happen with the Subspace Emissary Bosses like Petey Piranha, Pokey Minch, Rayquazza and Tabuu. Would they become fighters?

He is playable.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If Ridley is confirmed as a playable character, i wonder what would happen with the Subspace Emissary Bosses like Petey Piranha, Pokey Minch, Rayquazza and Tabuu. Would they become fighters?

Think you meant “Since Ridley is confirmed as a playable character”, fam

 

[N3ON]

If Ridley is confirmed as a playable character, i wonder what would happen with the Subspace Emissary Bosses like Petey Piranha, Pokey Minch, Rayquazza and Tabuu. Would they become fighters?

Guess we'll have to wait til E3 to find out!

Hold on...

 

[Deleted member]

Guess we'll have to wait til E3 to find out!

Hold on...

Maybe Porky, Rayquaza, or Petey Piranha will be announced at E4.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Guess we'll have to wait til E3 to find out!

Hold on...

Smash Bros Ultimate will be released in December.

 

[N3ON]

Smash Bros Ultimate will be released in December.

Seems a bit late, I think they'll probably go with September so it coincides with the online.

I guess we'll find out though.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

If Ridley is confirmed as a playable character, i wonder what would happen with the Subspace Emissary Bosses like Petey Piranha, Pokey Minch, Rayquazza and Tabuu. Would they become fighters?

Ridley's inclusion has no ties to him being an SSE boss, the other bosses will have to make it in on individual merit just the same as he did. Only one out of those I see as a potential candidate is Porky, but I think even he's pretty unlikely to make it into this game.

 

[Zeox]

If Ridley is confirmed as a playable character, i wonder what would happen with the Subspace Emissary Bosses like Petey Piranha, Pokey Minch, Rayquazza and Tabuu. Would they become fighters?

Depends.
If they decide to make a story mode, i could see some bosses returning... could be nice if Porky became a newcomer like Ridley, they both were the only main villains that were bosses instead of playable characters (Petey Piranha is Bowser's minion and Rayquaza is a legendary pokemon, not a villain... and Tabuu was an OC and a surprise final boss)
But they may not even do that, a story mode with cinematics like the one from Brawl takes too much time.

 

[P.Kat]

Lyn likely didn't get in because
A. You can do so many movesets depending solely on swords.
.

'You can do so many moveset depending solely on hands and feet,' yet we have more characters fighting with their hands and feet than swordfighters, it's easy to make any character sound so boring, and uninteresting when you generalize them.

Also Lyn is quite skilled at archery as well too, and her swordstyle is different than the rest FE cast making it more unique, it's more eastern-esque, and based off of the Iaido swordstyle, while the rest FE characters in Smash are more European/Medieval based swordstyles.

It's like saying Sheik's style of fighting, and Luigi's style are the same cause they both use their hand and feet.

Perfect...but Boom Amy is Perfection

So true, no doubt about it

 

[Rie Sonomura]

*cough* Aaaaaaaanyway...

I was thinking about the 22nd Leak again. It got a lot of things right, like MK8D DLC and the Funko Pops, but we’re clearly not getting a Direct today since it wasn’t announced yesterday and we’ve never had a Direct on a weekend.

But what if

What if the new Smash trailer (if any) will happen at the end of today, the final day of SDCC, like the MK8D DLC video happened at the end of Day 2? That didn’t need a Direct, and we may not need a direct for this either. It’s a crazy theory on my part I know, but it’s plausible with that technicality.

Thoughts?

Also, I kinda think while that leak got those things right, a lot of other things were intentionally falsified, like Cuphead (because Microsoft exclusive), FFVII Remake on Switch, and there being an actual direct today. As mentioned, I think we MIGHT get something, but outside of a direct. But I’m not counting on it overall.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The whole leaks thing

Here's another fun one

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/424801625

Spoiler: Supposive leak

Unique fighters

King k rool
Geno
Yuri lowell
Travis touchdown

Echos
Dark samus
Shadow
Hilda

Brawl style break the targe
Race to the finish
Adventure mode: you chose between the one from melee or the new one

I call it the cracker leak

How many people have really heard of a single one of those unique fighters?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Hmmmm

Correction:
Sakurai's comments on Geno's costume does not indicate that Geno would play similarly to the Mii Gunner as previously reported by @PushDustIn.

We will take down Geno's RTC and put up a correction video for next week.

We would like to apologize for this mistake. pic.twitter.com/PskJnh6lES

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) July 18, 2018

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I genuinely wonder how the general fanbase outside of this forum will react if neither Spring Man nor Rex ends up playable in the base roster.

 

[Roberto zampari]

By the way, since Snake returned in Ultimate, i wonder if Snake's codec messages would return, as well the Palutena's guidance.
Is it possible?

 

[P.Kat]

*cough* Aaaaaaaanyway...

I was thinking about the 22nd Leak again. It got a lot of things right, like MK8D DLC and the Funko Pops, but we’re clearly not getting a Direct today since it wasn’t announced yesterday and we’ve never had a Direct on a weekend.

But what if

What if the new Smash trailer (if any) will happen at the end of today, the final day of SDCC, like the MK8D DLC video happened at the end of Day 2? That didn’t need a Direct, and we may not need a direct for this either. It’s a crazy theory on my part I know, but it’s plausible with that technicality.

Thoughts?

It could happen, it'd be a unexpected surprise that's for sure, if anything either they'll tease a character or briefly go through the menu screen hopefully.
You know how thirsty you are for info when even a glimpse of the Menu Screen for Ultimate is tall glass of water.

 

[Idon]

Lyn likely didn't get in because
A. You can do so many movesets depending solely on swords and more importantly,
B. From what I've seen, Sakurai really doesn't go out of his way to add characters who past their prime. Like Lyn, Skull Kid or K.Rool
Also Waluigi didn't get in but Daisy did. One character not being playable doesn't tell everything about a character from another franchise.

"You can only do much with swords."
Might I direct you to Vergil, Senna, Setsuka, Yuzuriha, Ukyo, Hibiki, Johnny, and many more?
Look at ANY of these and tell me that iaijitsu is a style that is even remotely similar to any other sword style we currently have. And this is ignoring the fact that she can use afterimages. C'mon, tell me that isn't the sickest ****.

 

[Deleted member]

By the way, since Snake returned in Ultimate, i wonder if Snake's codec messages would return, as well the Palutena's guidance.
Is it possible?

Codecs will hopefully return. Some of the old ones need to be updated because they mention Brawl by name. Also, Kojima retired Colonel Campbell from the Metal Gear series due to the death of his (Japanese) voice actor, so any new codecs are unlikely to use him.

 

[Deleted member]

By the way, since Snake returned in Ultimate, i wonder if Snake's codec messages would return, as well the Palutena's guidance.
Is it possible?

If it came down to only having one of them, I'd much rather have Snake's codecs. Palutena's guidance was kinda meh for me personally.

Snake's codecs, however, are all gold. Especially Luigi's.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Codecs will hopefully return. Some of the old ones need to be updated because they mention Brawl by name. Also, Kojima retired Colonel Campbell from the Metal Gear series due to the death of his (Japanese) voice actor, so any new codecs are unlikely to use him.

Won't they find another voice actor for Colonel Campbell? Otherwise, who would replace Campbell?
By the way, who voiced Colonel Campbell?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I genuinely wonder how the general fanbase outside of this forum will react if neither Spring Man nor Rex ends up playable in the base roster.

Considering people didn't care much about ARMS, I'd say cheering. Considering the **** about XB2, half cheering, half screaming

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Won't they find another voice actor for Colonel Campbell? Otherwise, who would replace Campbell?
By the way, who voiced Colonel Campbell?

Paul Eiding voiced Colonel Campbell in English and he’s still alive. Japan takes VO casting very seriously though, and in the case of a VO’s death, they either retire the character (like with Campbell when his Japanese VO died) or reuse clips ad infinitum (like Igor in Persona after 4). It’s not very often they recast, one exception being the Japanese VO of Mitsuru’s dad between vanilla Persona 3 and FES/Portable.

And as mentioned they always recast if the character is very important and recurring, like with Eggman.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

By the way, since Snake returned in Ultimate, i wonder if Snake's codec messages would return, as well the Palutena's guidance.
Is it possible?

It’s kinda obvious that both convos will return (Hayter and Del Rio wouldn’t be coming back otherwise)

'You can do so many moveset depending solely on hands and feet,' yet we have more characters fighting with their hands and feet than swordfighters, it's easy to make any character sound so boring, and uninteresting when you generalize them.

Also Lyn is quite skilled at archery as well too, and her swordstyle is different than the rest FE cast making it more unique, it's more eastern-esque, and based off of the Iaido swordstyle, while the rest FE characters in Smash are more European/Medieval based swordstyles.
So true, no doubt about it

1. And as of FEHeroes, Lyn can do even more things outside of a Sword and Bow usage
2. Boom Amy for Smash Ultimate confirmed out of nowhere

 

[Roberto zampari]

Paul Eiding voiced Colonel Campbell in English and he’s still alive. Japan takes VO casting very seriously though, and in the case of a VO’s death, they either retire the character (like with Campbell when his Japanese VO died) or reuse clips ad infinitum (like Igor in Persona after 4). It’s not very often they recast, one exception being the Japanese VO of Mitsuru’s dad between vanilla Persona 3 and FES/Portable.

What about Dr. Eggman? (Chikao Otsuka and Kotaro Nakamura)

 

[ThatShadowLink]

"You can't do much with swords."
Might I direct you to Vergil, Senna, Setsuka, Yuzuriha, Ukyo, Hibiki, Johnny, and many more?
Look at ANY of these and tell me that iaijitsu is a style that is even remotely similar to any other sword style we currently have.

Yes. A thousand times yes. Eastern sword styles are a subject that has not been tapped by Smash at all. I'm super bummed that Takamaru in his Assist Trophy's present form runs around with his sword drawn, when in his original sprites on the Famicom he's clearly drawing and sheathing his blade in an Iai stance. At least he still throws projectiles, showing off some of his unique potential to the unknowing.

don't even get me started on the fact that they gave him the wrong sword

 

[Deleted member]

It’s kinda obvious that both convos will return (Hayter and Del Rio wouldn’t be coming back otherwise)

I don't know anything about how acting unions work, but both are union actors, and David Hayter is credited in Brawl as "David Hayter (Special Guest)." So they've been able to work around union rules before.

Steve Burton's contract must be a huge mess of legal issues

Yeah, there wasn't really a point to this it all and I prefer Japanese Cloud anyway,

What about Dr. Eggman? (Chikao Otsuka and Kotaro Nakamura)

Eggman is an important enough character that retiring him simply isn't an option, so he was recast.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I genuinely wonder how the general fanbase outside of this forum will react if neither Spring Man nor Rex ends up playable in the base roster.

Honestly I feel it'll be similar to Chrom not being included, the vast majority wouldn't really care, it honestly feels like a lot of their support comes from people thinking they're likely more so than actually wanting them.