Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[~ Valkyrie ~]

You know, each Smash Reveal this time might just be huge blowouts of information after a period of waiting (not as huge as at E3, though).

I quite feel same here - possibly makes me more hopeful that we'll see something around August to tide us over again.

Speaking which - what do you guys think could be Ultimate's major new addition to the series this time?

Melee brought in Side Specials, Brawl had Final Smashes, 4 had Customization (to less successful degree compared to last games though...)

 

[Zippo]

Here's a fun way to visualize my thoughts on Smash Ultimate after playing it:

Brawl:

Smash 4:

Ultimate:

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You guys wanna see a really cool touch?

Look in the background of Great Bay.

You can see a Heart Container! It's even in the same spot as one in Majora's Mask.

 

[P.Kat]

Here's a new question.

Which newcomer has the best render?

Which veteran that was previously cut at one point has the best render?

Which veteran that was never cut has the best render?

Inkling, they're looking pretty fresh.

Wolf, he looks ready to head back to his old hunting ground.

Hard to say, they all look so good, but I'd say Sheik, Lucina, Corrin, Zelda, Lucario, and Pit look stunning.

 

[Idon]

So this stream is gonna be the second part of that last one they did, with tennis sometimes and smash some others...

Anyone is gonna watch it just in case a new assist trophy appears or something?

Yay, more meaningless randomness! Ah well, might have it on the background and glance over at it now and then.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

hi everyone

How's it going

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So this stream is gonna be the second part of that last one they did, with tennis sometimes and smash some others...

Anyone is gonna watch it just in case a new assist trophy appears or something?

I don't think we even got one new Pokeball/AT from the last one. I'm guessing we saw all the ones in the demo by this point. Obviously more will come later, but it's probably only worth watching if you simply want to watch it. Not for anything "new".

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So this stream is gonna be the second part of that last one they did, with tennis sometimes and smash some others...

Anyone is gonna watch it just in case a new assist trophy appears or something?

I don't know man, I'm kind of starting to feel the Demo's been juiced out all "new" stuff within it by now after so many gameplay videos.

 

[KMDP]

Maybe they conscribe to a similar method to this:

3:57 onwards for the specific part I refer to.


Howdy.

Sakurai: All through the Years of 2016 and 2017, we had programmers working in hype proof conditions to try and produce a playable version of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. They worked on one character each for greater safety; one of them saw two characters in the game and spent several weeks in the hospital. Apart from that, things went pretty quickly.

 

[Noipoi]

hi everyone

Howdy! Folks call me Wander!


If anyone gets this reference I will love you forever.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't think we even got one new Pokeball/AT from the last one. I'm guessing we saw all the ones in the demo by this point. Obviously more will come later, but it's probably only worth watching if you simply want to watch it. Not for anything "new".

We got Chain Chomp, iirc.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

So this stream is gonna be the second part of that last one they did, with tennis sometimes and smash some others...

Anyone is gonna watch it just in case a new assist trophy appears or something?

I honestly wouldn’t expect anything new from this stream. I think we’ve seen all that the demo has to offer. If we do get anything new, it’s gonna be in a direct which I reckon will happen soon. I’m calling early to the middle of next month for a direct.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'm gonna watch it. You never know what may come out of it. At the very least there'll be one or two good matches like last time.

I want Girl in Pink to make a salty runback too.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We got Chain Chomp, iirc.

...I stand corrected.

Okay, totally worth keeping an eye on. Not myself(I work early), but yeah, we haven't seen all of it indefinitely, then.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I don't know why, But a while back, I thought Marth was Lucina disguised as a boy...
Just started playing FE and i guess since i was reading the text to fast I took "Descendant of Marth" as "Marth" xD

 

[Zinith]

I don't know why, But a while back, I thought Marth was Lucina disguised as a boy...
Just started playing FE and i guess since i was reading the text to fast I took "Descendant of Marth" as "Marth" xD

Fire Emblem: Awakenings? Yeah in that game, Marth IS Lucina disguised as a boy...

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Does anybody else here feel jealous that we can only watch SSBU and can't go to ONE event to at least play ONE game? It only makes the wait much more painful for me to be honest.

I want a demo so badly, but leakers might ruin the surprise. Sigh.

Smash 3DS got a demo so it's not out of the realm of possibility, they just need to make sure to scrub that thing clean so no leaking can happen

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Smash 3DS got a demo so it's not out of the realm of possibility, they just need to make sure to scrub that thing clean so no leaking can happen

I think someone mentioned a few pages back that someone claimed to have datamined the E3 Ultimate demo and had a Discord for it, but nothing came out of it...yet

Anything happen since on that front?

 

[P.Kat]

The day that Sakurai does decide to grace us with new information beyond music.

Well I was waiting so long that I hadn't notice, but now that you mention it Sakurai I am tad bit parched...

Here's hoping for an August Direct to safely sustain our slowly slipping sanity.

 

[RandomAce]

Does anybody else here feel jealous that we can only watch SSBU and can't go to ONE event to at least play ONE game? It only makes the wait much more painful for me to be honest.

I want a demo so badly, but leakers might ruin the surprise. Sigh.

Is it still available in the Nintendo NY store?

I’m lucky enough to live in NY.

 

[KMDP]

Fire Emblem: Awakenings? Yeah in that game, Marth IS Lucina disguised as a boy...

*not sure if joking*

 

[NintenRob]

5 most likely echoes in my opinion

Impa
Octolings
Dark Samus
Dark Meta Knight
Dixie

Mostly just the first 3 though

 

[Zinith]

*not sure if joking*

Not a joke. Also it's not a spoiler because it's so early in the game

 

[KMDP]

Not a joke. Also it's not a spoiler because it's so early in the game

I've played Fire Emblem Awakening, Zinith. XD

I was just undermining your information to mess with Mr Cotton.

 

[Noipoi]

Is it still available in the Nintendo NY store?

I’m lucky enough to live in NY.

Seconding this, can anyone confirm?
I'm planning a trip to NY and I NEED TO PLAY IT.

 

[RandomAce]

So this stream is gonna be the second part of that last one they did, with tennis sometimes and smash some others...

Anyone is gonna watch it just in case a new assist trophy appears or something?

Ooh yes! I’m ready to see more Ultimate gameplay, it’s going to be fun!

Also, no one here expected a reveal last week during the first tournament and were just psyched for more gameplay. Same here, unless something crazy happens.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's something to think about, what series will get music next week?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Ice Climbers gets a new remix of those two songs that make up it's whole OST

 

[L9999]

You guys are exaggerating about the "drought of information." Rather than trying to look for clues and expect reveals from nothing how about waiting? Talking about how Dixie will be a clone or not and archives of 4chan garbage can only entertain you for so long.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

In other news, someone tried to imitate me on GameFAQs. Shoutouts to @perfectchaos83 for sticking up to me since I can't because GameFAQs banned me for an error in their own website.

Anyways, the weird thing about this speculation period is that it's so short.

For Smash 4 we had about two to four years (depending on if you count the announcement in 2011 or the official reveal in 2013) of speculation, with 2011 - 2013 being nothing but an announcement, and 2013 - 2014 being a slow trickle of information through various outlets. Newcomer and veteran reveals were spaced out pretty well, and we were never really starved for content. The Pic of the Day always had something slightly new, and even when it didn't it was at least entertaining.

For Ultimate the official speculation period began either March (the announcement) or June (the official reveal), and ends in December. That's 6 - 9 months. March to June was nothing but a teaser with Inklings, Mario, Link, and whoever was in those shadows (that was fun speculation). Then, in June the floodgates open and we get a massive info dump. Every character returns, Ridley and Daisy are in, the game releases in six months. After that? Nothing but lots of gameplay. The blog has been nothing but rehashed information and a ****ing banger every Tuesday. They could keep recycling content on the blog up until release if they wanted. It's been 5 weeks since the reveal of the game and we've gotten little to nothing.

I think part of our anxiousness is that this isn't like anything we've experienced before. Both Brawl and Sm4sh had lengthy, spread out speculation periods. Ultimate has 6 months, and therefore we believe that 2 - 3 years worth of a speculation period has to be shoved into 6 months. Hence, 273 "leaks" in 5 weeks. Really, I think we ought to treat this like late stage Sm4sh speculation and expect reveals at the same intervals.

We still need more information soon though.

I was thinking about the same as this the other day. If we were to treat this like late Sm4sh speculation then we “could” expect, a surprise reveal maybe sometime before this months ends. A reveal next month in August in either a direct or mini direct. A demo in September possibly. A somewhat similar 50 fact extravaganza in October with two character reveals. And maybe one more reveal in November. Then come release in December possibly 1 or 2 reserved hidden characters that are echo fighters.

 

[NintenZ]

Some of the characters such as Peach don’t look entirely done I’ve noticed.

Like Toad in her moveset just disappears without any after effects.

 

[P.Kat]

Here's something to think about, what series will get music next week?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Ice Climbers gets a new remix of those two songs that make up it's whole OST

If they're remixing an Ice Climbers song, then they better remix this piece, it always gets my heart racing in Smash. Although I don't know how they can make this piece better than it is.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say that I still don't understand why people hate clones.

They aren't taking the spot of your most wanted. They don't start in the project plan. They take minimal assets to create. They make a ton of fans happy. What's to hate? People hate them because they share similar moves to another character in a roster of over 60 characters where about AT LEAST 58 of them play differently from another?

If you don't like them, don't play them. Somebody else will.

Clones may not seem like they're worth adding, but that's because the fan base places a higher value on unique movesets over clones. It's interesting that that's the case, because this series is what it has become because of the addition of clone characters. If we didn't get Ganondorf in Melee, we may not have gotten him at all because he was specifically added by ease of access to Captain Falcon. Same thing with Falco and the others. They were popular requests. What makes more sense? Adding characters that people really want as clones so that they can be playable, or not adding them at all and twiddling your thumbs? It's quite obvious.

Clones are not picked over characters like King K.Rool. They aren't picked over extra game modes. They aren't picked over trophies. They aren't picked over costumes. They're added when there's a little bit of time left and there's time to add a few. That's where Dark Pit, Doc, Lucina, and Daisy come from.

That's also just an aspect of game development. Development can get crazy, and when the roster is headed by a guy who just wants to make people happy, I would be hard pressed to think he'd turn down a clone just because they "aren't worth the spot if they're the same as another character" or something like that.

I just don't get the hate. Most people are at least happy to play as their favorite character. Daisy fans get to play as a character that used to be set as an alt color for Peach. A family friend of mine asked me about it after the reveal because he has always played Daisy in Mario games and thought she was just an alt for Peach. When I explained that she wasn't he was relieved and extremely excited that he got to play the game as his favorite character despite the fact that she would play similarly to Peach.

I'm one of those players that will pick up and play anybody if I feel like it. But if you're not, there's quite literally over 50 other characters you can choose to play.

Basically, asking to exchange clones for something else shows a misunderstanding of game development and where clones come from. Saying you'd trade Dr. Mario, Lucina, Dark Pit, and Daisy for something else is flawed. You wouldn't get anything else for those characters, because they were decided upon at the end of that phase of development.

I go both ways. I'm so excited for Daisy, but Dark Pit can go right into the trash for me. Personally, I think the clone is good if I like the clone as much as or more than the parent, and I don't hate the moveset.

I don't hate clones for 'taking up slots' per se, it's more that Sm4sh's were clones of characters I don't like in the first place, and their challenges were both more difficult and unhammerable. And I like to play through all modes with all characters, so I'm forced to do some things twice with given movesets I don't like. I'll admit, it was more of a petulant thing there.

But I can't say that the clones took nothing away from others either, since there was at least some dev time given to them. True, denying Dark Pit a roster slot wouldn't have gotten Ridley in, but realistically that time could have been used elsewhere. Maybe the development time used to give Dark Pit a unique victory theme could have instead been used to give Ganondorf a unique victory theme. Or instead of giving a crowd chant to Pittoo, Link wouldn't have to share his with Tink. I don't think that those are unrealistic complaints considering they literally would have been the same amount of effort (and that all feeds into my saltiness that the Zelda series is getting dumped on in Smash over Kid Icarus)

In all, I didn't mind Lucina - she wasn't anything special to me, but I could have ignored her. But Dark Pit did represent to me that Ganondorf was lacking his villain victory theme, and Link lacking his unique crowd chant. And as such, I did hate him.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Here's a fun way to visualize my thoughts on Smash Ultimate after playing it:

Brawl:
View attachment 153895

Smash 4:
View attachment 153896
Ultimate:
View attachment 153897

Gohan best DBZ character...no matter what

So this stream is gonna be the second part of that last one they did, with tennis sometimes and smash some others...

Anyone is gonna watch it just in case a new assist trophy appears or something?

I’m gonna watch for more Pit gameplay...as in I hope he’s continued to be used cause Pit top tier

how about waiting

 

[Noipoi]

If they're remixing an Ice Climbers song, then they better remix this piece, it always gets my heart racing in Smash. Although know how they can make this piece better than it is.

THIS is an Ice Climbers song?
Popo and Nana are hardcore!

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Imagine having the possibility to add to Final Destination's and Battlefield's My Music playlists any song available in the game, and among them you can play this on FD:

The music is just one of the reasons that Egg Reverie Zone is my most wanted new Sonic stage for Ultimate. Unfortunately, I think it's likelier we're getting a Forces stage if we get any new Sonic stage, that's still cool imo but I would prefer a Mania stage.

Anyway July 22nd leak is all but confirmed dead at this point. Still an info drought but I went in to July expecting exactly that so I can't say I'm really disappointed. On the other hand, I'm sure we'll get a character reveal at some point in August, whether it be in a Direct, Mini Direct, or random website reveal like Robin. I'm 50/50 on getting a character in September but there very well could be a direct that month so who knows. As for October and November, we will definitely get something those months to drive up hype for the game since it will be close to launch. Probably even a special Smash direct at some point in those two months.

 

[?????????????]

I just made a video about my Top 10 newcomers for Smash Ultimate.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say that I still don't understand why people hate clones.

They aren't taking the spot of your most wanted. They don't start in the project plan. They take minimal assets to create. They make a ton of fans happy. What's to hate? People hate them because they share similar moves to another character in a roster of over 60 characters where about AT LEAST 58 of them play differently from another?

If you don't like them, don't play them. Somebody else will.

Clones may not seem like they're worth adding, but that's because the fan base places a higher value on unique movesets over clones. It's interesting that that's the case, because this series is what it has become because of the addition of clone characters. If we didn't get Ganondorf in Melee, we may not have gotten him at all because he was specifically added by ease of access to Captain Falcon. Same thing with Falco and the others. They were popular requests. What makes more sense? Adding characters that people really want as clones so that they can be playable, or not adding them at all and twiddling your thumbs? It's quite obvious.

Clones are not picked over characters like King K.Rool. They aren't picked over extra game modes. They aren't picked over trophies. They aren't picked over costumes. They're added when there's a little bit of time left and there's time to add a few. That's where Dark Pit, Doc, Lucina, and Daisy come from.

That's also just an aspect of game development. Development can get crazy, and when the roster is headed by a guy who just wants to make people happy, I would be hard pressed to think he'd turn down a clone just because they "aren't worth the spot if they're the same as another character" or something like that.

I just don't get the hate. Most people are at least happy to play as their favorite character. Daisy fans get to play as a character that used to be set as an alt color for Peach. A family friend of mine asked me about it after the reveal because he has always played Daisy in Mario games and thought she was just an alt for Peach. When I explained that she wasn't he was relieved and extremely excited that he got to play the game as his favorite character.

I'm one of those players that will pick up and play anybody if I feel like it. But if you're not, there's no quite literally over 50 other characters you can choose to play.

Basically, asking to exchange clones for something else shows a misunderstanding of game development and where clones come from. Saying you'd trade Dr. Mario, Lucina, Dark Pit, and Daisy for something else is flawed. You wouldn't get anything else for those characters, because they were decided upon at the end of that phase of development.

Probably it just comes down to how clones are viewed like among fans, and how okay they are with just getting to play as the characters in the game, compared to those that don't get to have same luxury (depending on the standards or just supporting not-so-cloneable characters).

With the former it is certainly a blessing - while to others, it more comes off as padding on the roster that stick out like a sore thumb due how much more "artificial" or "unoriginal" they are compared to rest of the roster, yet are treated as equal in the cast of fighters, something that might irk out people that didn't get to have their characters in the game (subjective) or find the overall concept of clones lazy because there's not much to differ them from the actual fighters (YMMV). I think this is the most heaviest reason why there's a lot folk who don't enjoy like clones

I think this is best mitigated by developing the clones over time, or even making them somewhat enough differentiated from the characters they're based on - basically the fanbase you refer to here rather favour semi-clones over total clones or Echoes, since they offer a fresh take on something they're familiar with from some other characters.
Clones meanwhile feel more like pleasing "casual" crowds (pretty big kinds though) out there, with less interesting meat for them to explore in contrast meanwhile. Probably this might make it that they should be treated as such, "free additions", instead of "fighters among the unique ones" in the roster in detractors' eyes. (I guess why say, Lucina and Dark Pit were next to Doc in the CSS of Smash 4).

On that end, some clones/Echoes' individuality gets completely lost within the transition to Smash, which might irk the fans of such characters biggest case being Ganondorf of the years. Which is also why I'd rather be okay with Dixie Kong not be in Smash as a playable rather than play her as a complete clone of Diddy - since it'd feel like an immense disservice to a character, and wouldn't feel existing to me in an authentic form as I remember her, which highly affects if I'd try to switch on her over Diddy anyway. It's basically getting a glorified alternate costume, that's all.

I mean, I'm still waiting for more reasons to be actually excited to try Daisy over Peach due how she's not feeling that different from being an alternate color to her before, just with unique animations added here and there. It feels really difficult for me to appreciate and enjoy over long time due how "artificial" and bare-bones she'll feel to play as, compared to Peach's more authentic self coming off in her moveset.

Still, I don't know what you have to be worried or weirded out about. Echoes being this well-received should be telling that this kind of mindset will probably die by the time the game comes out.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

THIS is an Ice Climbers song?
Popo and Nana are hardcore!

Actually, Guybrush was referring to a song medley named after the game it's from. Was just mentioning a retro game in the same breadth as a different one.

 

[Deleted member]

THIS is an Ice Climbers song?
Popo and Nana are hardcore!

It's technically not an Ice Climber song, its from Shin Onigashima for the Famicom. That remix did, however, play on Summit in Brawl but was moved to Boxing Ring in Smash 4 due to obvious reasons.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I mean, I'm still waiting for more reasons to be actually excited to try Daisy over Peach due how she's not feeling that different from being an alternate color to her before, just with unique animations added here and there. It feels really difficult for me to appreciate and enjoy over long time due how "artificial" and bare-bones she'll feel to play as, compared to Peach's more authentic self coming off in her moveset.

I rarely ever used Peach in the past, but now with Daisy, i might give her a shot due to not having the ever so annoying "aah, did I win?" Peach victory taunt.