Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just saying, but, if they were to add Dixie without her hair being used in any of her moves, wouldn’t her hair just be attached to a physics bone so that it flops about in real time without needing to be animated manually?

No, because it would look awkward. Being basically nothing more than a piece of scenery is fine, but it it'd still need animating so it doesn't look strange/go in weird places. Even then, this probably wouldn't take a severe amount of time arguably. But at that point, it may be more worth it to make her a regular clone like Dr. Mario is. And all it would take is a few more extra animations.

Though yeah, they could do what you said, but again, it'd just look awkward and ultimately unprofessional. Sakurai prefers to make things look presentable. So I doubt he'd ignore the hair issue in itself. I absolutely can still see her being an Echo, but only if her hair is fixed up enough to not look like crap. I wonder if her Final Smash would use her hair, at least? But another good point somebody brought up is how Sakurai had her Trophies put emphasis on her hair. So I could see him opting to make her a regular or semi-clone instead due to this alone. He does change his beliefs at times, but yeah.

 

[N3ON]

Here's a new question.

Which newcomer has the best render?

Which veteran that was previously cut at one point has the best render?

Which veteran that was never cut has the best render?

All I know is Young Link is the prettiest boy and best looking character in the game. And I don't even like that kid.

Moreover, I think almost all the characters not carried over directly from Smash 4 look notably better. Daisy, Inkling, Squirtle, Zelda, etc.

Not that that really answers your question... ;P

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

Which newcomer has the best render?

Inkling looks the best to me all around, and I don't really have an opinion for the others

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I dunno if this is a hint or absolutely nothing... probably nothing, but hey, anything new to talk is welcome, so:

Spoiler: Director of modern Kirby games likes a collage of Porky in Smash

View attachment 153868Link: http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/424990591

My thoughts? As much as I liked this to be a hint, i really doubt it, unless they really decided to make a subspace emissary 2 and they are gonna do with Porky the same they did with Ridley and upgrade him, if they made a story mode that was a sequel then it would make sense.

This could be something, but I think its more likely that it means nothing and Shinya just supports the idea of Porky in Smash. I don't know if Shinya would really be involved enough in development to know whether or not Porky is in the game.

That being said, I would not mind being wrong about this. Although I prefer the Masked Man, I would welcome any Earthbound newcomer with open arms.

Personally, I prefer to think that, besides liking Porky, he might be interested in becoming Sakurai's successor in directing Smash Bros.

If that were happen, people's wishes for more Kirby content would be granted, to put it lightly.

I still think trusting ANY "leak" is foolish... Up untill the month of release, that is.

This, a hundred times. Doing otherwise is gladly lapping up servings of King Boo's gullible soup.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Here's a new question.

Which newcomer has the best render?

Which veteran that was previously cut at one point has the best render?

Which veteran that was never cut has the best render?

Newcomer: Inkling, shows off her personality well. Ridley's got a ton of details but his pose is a little wonky, and Daisy's is just kind of standard.

Previously Cut Veteran: Pichu, he (she?) just looks so happy. Young Link's is pretty good too though, cool pose and I like the details on the Deku Shield.

Veteran: Meta Knight by some margin, maybe the best render out of any Smash game. So many good details on the mask and armor, and his cape's motion just creates a real sense of scale for this otherwise small character.

As an aside, the character I feel looks the best in-game is Squirtle, he's perfect.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Here's a new question.

Which newcomer has the best render?

Which veteran that was previously cut at one point has the best render?

Which veteran that was never cut has the best render?

1. Ridley
2. Lucas(if he counts). I love the detail on the Rope Snake. For characters not in Smash 4 at all, Wolf.
3. Zelda by far.

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine having the possibility to add to Final Destination's and Battlefield's My Music playlists any song available in the game, and among them you can play this on FD:

 

[SquashiniKun]

Damn i'm craving some ****ty leaks today

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Here's a new question.

Which newcomer has the best render?

Which veteran that was previously cut at one point has the best render?

Which veteran that was never cut has the best render?

Newcomer has to be Ridley

not even the biggest fan of the pose but the detail is wild

previously cut I'd probably go with Lucas, it's not the most impressive or detailed but I love the pose and the personality they show through it

Veteran would probably be peach imo, love the pose, love the detailing on the dress, including the umbrella was a nice touch, 10/10, we love an adorable queen

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

All I know is Young Link is the prettiest boy and best looking character in the game. And I don't even like that kid.

Moreover, I think almost all the characters not carried over directly from Smash 4 look notably better. Daisy, Inkling, Squirtle, Zelda, etc.

Not that that really answers your question... ;P

aside from the part I struck out, I (almost) agree completely, aside from the fact that Sheik and Luigi are looking really crisp

 

[Hinata]

Here's a new question.

Which newcomer has the best render?

Which veteran that was previously cut at one point has the best render?

Which veteran that was never cut has the best render?

Daisy
Pokemon Trainer
Bayonetta/Palutena

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

All I know is Young Link is the prettiest boy and best looking character in the game. And I don't even like that kid.

Moreover, I think almost all the characters not carried over directly from Smash 4 look notably better. Daisy, Inkling, Squirtle, Zelda, etc.

Not that that really answers your question... ;P

I'm honestly not a fan of how young link looks, it's mostly down to his weird play dough looking hair

like what is happening here... there's also something off with his eyebrows and I don't like how he's always frowning.

 

[N3ON]

I'm curious if you think Octolings may be an exception to this because they're popularity really didn't take off until the Octo Expansion was released which happened after we knew of Echo Fighters. We really don't know how popular they might've been without the Echo term being introduced before then.

The Octolings have only ever been brought up as clones, but they'd probably still be raised irrespective of the new echo branding due to the timing of the Octo Expansion. Though not nearly as much. They're kind of in a grey area. I do think their current demand is a bit more organic than those other characters I mentioned, but frankly they still seem a pretty uninspired if inoffensive choice for inclusion.

we're getting newcomers, just not many. the number of DLC characters, even if not large, will be most likely bigger than base newcomers, as that's what would be easiest for the team. I would like to come back to the long-running DLC idea, most people shoot it down whenever brought up, but it's probably the best compromise, at least that I can think of. Sakurai gives us the smash we want, with a less soul-crushing workload, (obviously it's the same if not more, but it's spread out over a longer period of time). He keeps his franchise (I'm working off the evaluation of the smash games made by MatPat, It made a lot of sense and I really agree with it) without equalization. Not perfect but as close as I can imagine we can get it. (notice the stress on me imagining it, I'm not a game designer, and I make most of my assumptions off limited information, due to me having an erratic schedule)

Yeah, slim selection of base newcomers, more longterm support through DLC, that's probably the plan. I see the DLC lasting at least as long as Smash 4's did, which will probably end up roughly mirroring the volume of base newcomers.

I also think they're arranging their DLC plans with greater forethought this time, which will result in a more even and dense release schedule.

 

[MBRedboy31]

No, because it would look awkward. Being basically nothing more than a piece of scenery is fine, but it it'd still need animating so it doesn't look strange/go in weird places. Even then, this probably wouldn't take a severe amount of time arguably. But at that point, it may be more worth it to make her a regular clone like Dr. Mario is. And all it would take is a few more extra animations.

Though yeah, they could do what you said, but again, it'd just look awkward and ultimately unprofessional. Sakurai prefers to make things look presentable. So I doubt he'd ignore the hair issue in itself. I absolutely can still see her being an Echo, but only if her hair is fixed up enough to not look like crap. I wonder if her Final Smash would use her hair, at least? But another good point somebody brought up is how Sakurai had her Trophies put emphasis on her hair. So I could see him opting to make her a regular or semi-clone instead due to this alone. He does change his beliefs at times, but yeah.

If they don’t attach it to a physics bone, then it won’t respond to external factors.

The Smashville platform here is moving forward. Notice how it causes Peach's hair to lift up behind her. There are, however, limits on how much her hair can move (the platform moving backwards won't cause her hair to move forwards or around her head, it will just hang straight down as if it were not moving.)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If they don’t attach it to a physics bone, then it won’t respond to external factors.View attachment 153882
The Smashville platform here is moving forward. Notice how it causes her hair to lift up behind her.

I mean it suddenly clipping into Dixie/looking weird. Though if that's not an issue, then sweet. My only argument is thwarted and I'm good with that~

 

[Malkior7]

Here's a new question.

Which newcomer has the best render?

Which veteran that was previously cut at one point has the best render?

Which veteran that was never cut has the best render?

Question 1: Ridley

Question 2: Young Link and Wolf

Question 3: This one I can't answer because almost everyones renders for this game are really good

 

[P.Kat]

i feel like if any third party series will see a lot of representation it'll be sonic, its stuck with smash for a while now definitely deserves it.

I hope that's the case, just so there's a chance Blaze the Cat could make it in.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I'm honestly not a fan of how young link looks, it's mostly down to his weird play dough looking hair

like what is happening here... there's also something off with his eyebrows and I don't like how he's always frowning.

I have no idea how this passed quality and assurance. This picture is downright fugly.

 

[Roberk]

Here's something I found a little interesting. Instead of being released in November like other regions, the Octoling amiibo three-pack is being held back a month in NA so it can launch on December 7, AKA the same day Smash Ultimate comes out.

It probably means nothing and is just a coincidence, but this would make a lot of sense if Octolings were playable in Smash. Maybe not if they're an Echo Fighter or unique character because Nintendo would have to release a redundant fourth Octoing amiibo later on, but at the very least, it'd make sense if they were alts of the Inklings.

I'm pretty sure it's just a coincidence since those Amiibo will first release in Japan in November. December 7th is a Friday (and in the holiday season), so it'd line up with a lot of different releases. (I'm assuming here but I'm very positive on Friday being a common day for releases.)

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I'm honestly not a fan of how young link looks, it's mostly down to his weird play dough looking hair

like what is happening here... there's also something off with his eyebrows and I don't like how he's always frowning.

It's a demo, they'll probably fix the hair later

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, slim selection of base newcomers, more longterm support through DLC, that's probably the plan. I see the DLC lasting at least as long as Smash 4's did, which will probably end up roughly mirroring the volume of base newcomers.

I also think they're arranging their DLC plans with greater forethought this time, which will result in a more even and dense release schedule.

I'd be all for long-running DLC as well, if it means higher chances of getting the characters we want.

 

[N3ON]

I'm honestly not a fan of how young link looks, it's mostly down to his weird play dough looking hair

like what is happening here... there's also something off with his eyebrows and I don't like how he's always frowning.

I don't think any of the hair in Smash looks natural, I guess I just prefer that sculpted look to the dull flatness most of the more human characters sport. Realism is out the window for all of it anyway. Though that picture isn't doing it any justice. I think the character shines more in motion.

Due to this lighting engine, most characters look strange in at least one type of lighting, whereas YL and some of the other new models are more even throughout. Once the next Smash game comes out, this game is gonna look weirdly bright yet quite washed out in comparison.

 

[Koopaul]

The Pikmin were always the stars, not the Captains. It makes a Pikmin series clone a bit of a lower priority most likely. It's the translated/other region versions that give a misunderstanding of this. The proper name is Pikmin & Olimar and Pikmin & Alph. Besides that, there aren't a lot of new Pikmin to implement and make interesting. So it might not be considered "worth it" to make a new model and animate it alone for a clone in this case. Especially since Pikmin does a great job alone in showing off the various little guys in Olimar's moveset alone. So an Echo takes more a lot more, and maybe it's not worth it till more Pikmin get introduced, allowing Alph to be more interesting in the long run. Though my first point still stands, I'd like to see Alph be his own guy, but Rock Pikmin have no tangible differences from Purple Pikmin bar their design, so ideas are needed to clearly separate them first. Sakurai simply hasn't thought of them, perhaps.

But yeah, there's many possible reasons.

That's funny because you control Olimar. Not the Pikmin. And in order to get the K.O. you kill Olimar. And when Kirby sucks up Olimar... he's Olimar. And the stock icon is Olimar. Etc. Ect. Ect. Saying the Pikmin are the stars is just odd. I'm not saying you are lying I'm just saying that whoever decided to give the Pikmin top priority was an odd choice given the circumstances.

As for making Alph an Echo. You could just do something as simple as making him throw Pikmin slightly farther or making him move slightly faster but his attacks are weaker. Or something. I mean Lucina's only difference is that the tip of the sword doesn't do extra damage.

So don't think echoes require anything more than a few tweaks. They pretty much are glorified costumes and don't need much of a special reason to exist other than to pad things out.

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

I hope that's the case, just so there's a chance Blaze the Cat could make it in.

I... would rather die. he sucks, not even just because of memes

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Time for another survey list...

What in your opinion are the 5 most likely Echo characters that are gonna be added to Ultimate?

Isabelle
Dixie Kong (even though a semi-clone would be more appropriate)
Shadow (but I'd much prefer Tails as the next newcomer, but again a semi-clone of Sonic would be more appropriate)
Impa
Chrom

Here's something I found a little interesting. Instead of being released in November like other regions, the Octoling amiibo three-pack is being held back a month in NA so it can launch on December 7, AKA the same day Smash Ultimate comes out.

It probably means nothing and is just a coincidence, but this would make a lot of sense if Octolings were playable in Smash. Maybe not if they're an Echo Fighter or unique character because Nintendo would have to release a redundant fourth Octoing amiibo later on, but at the very least, it'd make sense if they were alts of the Inklings.

Inb4 they announce 10-player Smash for Switch. and make the other two Inkling costumes into male and female octolings with Black and Red as colors.

...yes that's a total BS theory, but it would also explain why Ridley is missing his Meta alt, and that Mario's Fire recolor is gone....suddenly this is sounding oddly plausible...

Here's a new question.

Which newcomer has the best render?

Which veteran that was previously cut at one point has the best render?

Which veteran that was never cut has the best render?

Newcomer: Ridley He just looks so detailed and awesome.
Cut: Pokémon Trainer (especially Ivy and the Zard), but Wolf's is also really really cool
Vet: Peach, but Robin as an honorable mention.

 

[TheSmasher916]

Sadly expected this Direct leak to be fake, but just for ****s and giggles does anyone know the closest a direct announcement has been to a direct?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I... would rather die. he sucks, not even just because of memes

Uh...

I believe you have mistaken Blaze the Cat for Big the Cat.

lmao

 

[True Blue Warrior]

That's funny because you control Olimar. Not the Pikmin. And in order to get the K.O. you kill Olimar. And when Kirby sucks up Olimar... he's Olimar. And the stock icon is Olimar. Etc. Ect. Ect. Saying the Pikmin are the stars is just odd. I'm not saying you are lying I'm just saying that whoever decided to give the Pikmin top priority was an odd choice given the circumstances.

As for making Alph an Echo. You could just do something as simple as making him throw Pikmin slightly farther or making him move slightly faster but his attacks are weaker. Or something. I mean Lucina's only difference is that the tip of the sword doesn't do extra damage.

So don't think echoes require anything more than a few tweaks.

If you want Alph to be an Echo, all you need to do is change the properties of all his tilts and neutral aerial. Hey, a few moves differences was enough for Dark Pit.

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

I don't think any of the hair in Smash looks natural, I guess I just prefer that sculpted look to the dull flatness most of the more human characters sport. Realism is out the window for all of it anyway. Though that picture isn't doing it any justice. I think the character shines more in motion.

Due to this lighting engine, most characters look strange in at least one type of lighting, whereas YL and some of the other new models are more even throughout. Once the next Smash game comes out, this game is gonna look weirdly bright yet quite washed out in comparison.

My biggest problem with brawl was how washed out it is, In the demo, they went on the other side of the spectrum, but it's going to be fixed in the full game.

Uh...

I believe you have mistaken Blaze the Cat for Big the Cat.

lmao

Hm. I never knew I couldn't read, I guess I just assumed my 20/70 vision in one eye and 20/50 vision in the other (with glasses on) meant I could. Bigger means better, Right...?
I need new glasses

 

[P.Kat]

I... would rather die. he sucks, not even just because of memes

You mean she, Blaze is a she, unless you though I was talking about 'Big the Cat' which I wasn't

Edit: 'd

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I... would rather die. he sucks, not even just because of memes

uh...he?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's funny because you control Olimar. Not the Pikmin. And in order to get the K.O. you kill Olimar. And when Kirby sucks up Olimar... he's Olimar. And the stock icon is Olimar. Etc. Ect. Ect. Saying the Pikmin are the stars is just odd. I'm not saying you are lying I'm just saying that whoever decided to give the Pikmin top priority was an odd choice given the circumstances.

As for making Alph an Echo. You could just do something as simple as making him throw Pikmin slightly farther or making him move slightly faster but his attacks are weaker. Or something. I mean Lucina's only difference is that the tip of the sword doesn't do extra damage.

So don't think echoes require anything more than a few tweaks.

And yet we have Pokemon Trainer who is the same thing. He's the main name of the character, yet you never play as him. He's still the "focus" to a degree, moreso in Ultimate where he's the only one with a stock icon. Pikmin are most clearly the main point of the moveset. Olimar is just the "controller" of them. You can only fully KO him because of how the moveset is designed, which is that you can summon infinite Pikmin essentially. Just like the regular game. And the game is still called Pikmin too, despite this. Losing all your Pikmin there is not instant game over, but it sure as hell puts you in a bad position. It's just a proper interpretation of the series, nothing else, really.

Alph is a pretty bad idea for an Echo, though. There's little reason to do so as there's still no Pikmin(the main stars of the franchise, not the Captains) to promote. The only one requires all new animations(Rock Pikmin), which already blurs the line if he should be a clone or Echo. It's still most logical to wait for more Pikmin to be created to create an interesting moveset for Alph. He's literally the exact same as Olimar in the home games. This is also why he makes perfect sense as an Alt costume. There's literally zero differences from him or Olimar. There's no reason to outright separate them right now. Echo for the sake of an Echo is silly.

Also, Lucina isn't a good point. She actually does have official differences from Marth besides their literal size and gender. She has her own abilities. They simply aren't used. Alph and Olimar are exactly alike in their games and completely interchangeable. You could replace one with the other and the gameplay would be the same entirely. Echoes have all been characters who have actual different abilities at some point among their series' appearances. Even very little ones.

 

[N3ON]

I'd be all for long-running DLC as well, if it means higher chances of getting the characters we want.

Unlike with Mario Kart, I do believe this will be the sole Smash on the Switch, so not supporting it longterm with DLC, especially given how profitable the DLC was on a much less profitable system, is just leaving money on the table.

Plus if the base roster is mostly dictated by popularity, the DLC would be an effective way for Nintendo to still promote things, particularly given the turnaround is much quicker than when you have to wait for the base game to launch and suddenly the character you're promoting had their title the previous year. And even better for the consumers who don't much care for promotional inclusions, they need not partake.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I have no idea how this passed quality and assurance. This picture is downright fugly.

At least there don't appear to be any shading problems. There are some jagged parts on Link's fingers by the shield, but those just might be shadows.

----

 

[P.Kat]

My biggest problem with brawl was how washed out it is, In the demo, they went on the other side of the spectrum, but it's going to be fixed in the full game.

Hm. I never knew I couldn't read, I guess I just assumed my 20/70 vision in one eye and 20/50 vision in the other (with glasses on) meant I could. Bigger means better, Right...?
I need new glasses

So misunderstandings aside, how would you or anyone else for that matter feel if Blaze the Cat was a newcomer?

 

[N3ON]

My biggest problem with brawl was how washed out it is, In the demo, they went on the other side of the spectrum, but it's going to be fixed in the full game.

I think the two seminal elements that shaped Brawl's art style was the push of Twilight Princess and the inclusion of Snake. It focused on darker colour schemes, more realistic material, and a more serious theme.

It was more so... "grounded" than anything else. And in that time it was an interesting departure for many of the characters, and it didn't look bad. But now with the hindsight of a decade it just looks a little rough. But frankly Smash 4's colour scheme was that of saturated, bright colours... so all the other Smash games don't look quite so colourful in comparison.

There is an interesting parallel between the most recent Zelda and the corresponding Smash, aesthetic-wise.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Here's a new question.

Which newcomer has the best render?

Which veteran that was previously cut at one point has the best render?

Which veteran that was never cut has the best render?

-Undecided, I think Ridley looks far off and not well proportioned, but Daisy and Inkling I don't really care about... Tie between Daisy and Inkling then I guess.
-Pichu
-Diddy Kong of course :D

 

[RandomAce]

Here's a new question.

Which newcomer has the best render?

Which veteran that was previously cut at one point has the best render?

Which veteran that was never cut has the best render?

1. We’ve only got three newcomers so far and their all decent enough.

2. Wolf I say is the best. He looks so damn detailed in his render so I hope that is how he will look in the final game. I also like Roy’s pose a lot as well.

Damn a lot of the charactee poses are so damn good.

3. Luigi

 

[Diddy Kong]

There is an interesting parallel between the most recent Zelda and the corresponding Smash, aesthetic-wise.

Good observation! It even shows off in Melee very well, the Zelda cast's renders all look like they come straight out of a GameCube version of Ocarina of Time.

Am honestly glad that they didn't force a BotW design on every character, even if it would've fit Zelda well. I can't imagine Ganondorf looking right with a forced BotW-design. It worked for Sheik with Twilight Princess, but not with Ganondorf.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Unlike with Mario Kart, I do believe this will be the sole Smash on the Switch, so not supporting it longterm with DLC, especially given how profitable the DLC was on a much less profitable system, is just leaving money on the table.

Plus if the base roster is mostly dictated by popularity, the DLC would be an effective way for Nintendo to still promote things, particularly given the turnaround is much quicker than when you have to wait for the base game to launch and suddenly the character you're promoting had their title the previous year. And even better for the consumers who don't much care for promotional inclusions, they need not partake.

I also believe that the Switch will just have one Smash. As per tradition, there's only ever been one major installment per console, something that not even Mario has adhered to.

If people won't get characters like Rex & Pyra at launch, this is the best way to ensure they'll be in later, so they don't become outdated come the next Smash. Then there's the possibility of a new character ballot opening up, if it comes to that, although they would need to be more open about what it entails.

So misunderstandings aside, how would you or anyone else for that matter feel if Blaze the Cat was a newcomer?

I'd be fine with it, since her debut game was on the DS, and the DS could use more representation.

The fact that I'm a cat person has nothing to do with it, I swear.