Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TMNTSSB4]

Time for another survey list...

What in your opinion are the 5 most likely Echo characters that are gonna be added to Ultimate?

Shadow and Toadette if they’re not alts to Sonic and Captain Toad
Octolings
Jeanne...cause why not
Dr. Luigi (no Chrom cause I need them Viridi roasts)

C. (Woke) Bill said that on purpose because he knows Smash fans will read too much into anything and generate videos, articles and discussion resulting in more marketing for the game with one phrase

 

[Icedragonadam]

Time for another survey list...

What in your opinion are the 5 most likely Echo characters that are gonna be added to Ultimate?

1. Isabelle
2. Funky Kong/Dixie
3. Chrom
4. Ninten
5. Dark Samus

 

[Garteam]

Time for another survey list...

What in your opinion are the 5 most likely Echo characters that are gonna be added to Ultimate?

I don't really have a particular order, but if I had to rank them these are the 5:
1. Dark Samus (Samus)
2. Chrom (Ike)
3. Isabelle (Villager)
4. Shadow (Sonic)
5. Ken (Ryu)

 

[KMDP]

Time for another survey list...

What in your opinion are the 5 most likely Echo characters that are gonna be added to Ultimate?

Here they are in no particular order:
-Chrom
-Octoling
-Impa
-Ken
-Jeanne

I did not include Dixie, Dark Samus, or Shadow because I think they'll be semi-clones if they do get in.

I have the same list as Dragoncharystary, pretty much.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Among Dixie, Dark Samus, and Shadow, the only one that has less chance of an Echo is Dixie, but that's solely due to animating her hair. This takes a lot more effort than what is expected of an Echo. Not using it for moves, but the fact it exists. This means they have to take it into account for the entire moveset. This may move her into clone or semi-clone status by default. The other two have a near identical build or same build and don't have any animation worries. Albeit, Shadow would look better with karate chops and such, but he can easily do all of Sonic's moves anyway. Dark Samus doesn't have access to Samus' arsenal entirely, but wouldn't look weird doing the same moves due to wearing the same suit. Some various shades of phazon added would be enough to make him look right. Not unlike how Ganondorf's magic is animated.

Dixie is capable of doing all of Diddy's moveset so far that we've seen. It's just the animation that makes me wonder if she'd be a regular clone instead, with mostly the same moveset, but smaller changes(basically a Melee clone), and perhaps one unique special. This type of animation thing is the reason why Daisy can't be in her Sports Outfit, due to the fact the dress is an attack. But also because it would require way more work than an Echo would.

 

[PeridotGX]

Time for another survey list...

What in your opinion are the 5 most likely Echo characters that are gonna be added to Ultimate?

5. Blaziken for Falcon

4. Ima for Sheik

3. Chrom for Ike

2. Dark Samus for Samus

1. Octoling for Inkling

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Based on the time

I call the leak fake now

How did they get 3 things right on the July 22nd leak

I was always skeptical

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Based on the time

I call the leak fake now

How did they get 3 things right on the July 22nd leak

I was always skeptical

Eh, give it a few more hours. Didn’t the BOTW Link for MK8D get announced at around 9 PM EST? Speaking of, it’s only like 1:41 PM in California right now

Even so, game announcements on a weekend are indeed suspicious

 

[KMDP]

Based on the time

I call the leak fake now

How did they get 3 things right on the July 22nd leak

I was always skeptical

Simple, they knew those three things, and the rest was made up.

 

[N3ON]

Guys that leak was fake ever since it said Cuphead, the confirmed exclusive, was coming to Switch.

He just had a couple lucky guesses amid a sea of other outlandish claims.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Based on the time

I call the leak fake now

How did they get 3 things right on the July 22nd leak

I was always skeptical

I honestly figured it was fake from the start. Though to be fair, Nintendo can announce directs really late(that is, not long before the actual direct itself). I don't remember what was the lowest time between the announcement and a direct though.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Guys that leak was fake ever since it said Cuphead, the confirmed exclusive, was coming to Switch.

He just had a couple lucky guesses amid a sea of other outlandish claims.

Well this only means one thing...time for the next most legit leak of the week

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Time for another survey list...

What in your opinion are the 5 most likely Echo characters that are gonna be added to Ultimate?

Likely?

1. Dark Samus
2. Impa
3. Shadow the Hedgehog (only if multiple 3rd parties are allowed)/ Yarn Yoshi (if he's out)
4. Octoling
5. Dixie Kong (Don't WANT her as an echo but this isn't about want)

On my want list I've got Roll, Princess Hilda and in my desire to get her playable in Smash in any form, Gardevoir.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

To be honest, I was also extremely skeptical over the leak listing a FF7 remake announcement for switch...would I love it? Hell yes. Do I see it realistically happening? Sadly, no

 

[ratmon19]

Alm nbn of a sudden people jump in the hilda wagon.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No point in having Dixie if she's gonna be a Echo... She can still easily be a semi-clone and all will be fine. The roster is literally 30% semi-clone now anyway. No excuse to not have a newcomer who's like that. Literally ALL Dixie her trophy descriptions are about using her hair. Sakurai has knowlegde about her abilities, I have confidence she won't be a Echo. And no, Dixie CANNOT use all the same attacks as Diddy does.

 

[Garteam]

Based on the time

I call the leak fake now

How did they get 3 things right on the July 22nd leak

I was always skeptical

They probably knew about the Funko Pops and were able to infer additional Mario Kart content from the Labo update. They then ran with that info and made a fake leak.

I realized the leak was dead once the "Prime Ribs" leak was deconfimed, seeing how the Dixie/K. Rool announcement was very clearly piggybacking off that leak.

 

[Zeox]

I dunno if this is a hint or absolutely nothing... probably nothing, but hey, anything new to talk is welcome, so:

Spoiler: Director of modern Kirby games likes a collage of Porky in Smash

Link: http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/424990591

My thoughts? As much as I liked this to be a hint, i really doubt it, unless they really decided to make a subspace emissary 2 and they are gonna do with Porky the same they did with Ridley and upgrade him, if they made a story mode that was a sequel then it would make sense.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

If that happened (which is probably not likely) my money's on Leon Powalski, as I can see falco clone potential. (or even for shiek)

Leon isn't a bird though, some moves like jab and forward smash could look really weird just using hands. I think Panther for Wolf could work well since he presumably has claws too

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Likely?

1. Dark Samus
2. Impa
3. Shadow the Hedgehog (only if multiple 3rd parties are allowed)/ Yarn Yoshi (if he's out)
4. Octoling
5. Dixie Kong (Don't WANT her as an echo but this isn't about want)

On my want list I've got Roll, Princess Hilda and in my desire to get her playable in Smash in any form, Gardevoir.

Roll has a different body shape and wouldn't really work. I mean, as a clone, sure, but she has too many animation and design differences. Proto Man and Bass have enough of a similar design where it could work, however. Though considering MegaMan is retro-based with hard sprite moveset, similar to Mr. Game & Watch, he probably couldn't have an easy Echo, but a clone based upon him instead.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Alm nbn of a sudden people jump in the hilda wagon.

You mean as of knowing that-

A. Knowing Echos are a thing with a solid definition
and
B. Zelda's gotten her Triforce of the Gods design and her personality was brightened to match, leaving a lot of animations from her previous self that could be used.

OR

That she was featured in a recent leak?

If the former I started the Hilda thread a month ago so that's hardly sudden.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well, as we saw in Ridley's trailer, they went through the trouble to make a new intro for the Smash newcomer trailers. That suggests we're getting a few more newcomers.

That is a very fair point.

That intro doesn't work for just Ridley.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still think trusting ANY "leak" is foolish... Up untill the month of release, that is.

 

[N3ON]

Wait people think we're not getting any more newcomers?

Aside from the intro thing, which is a good point, they would've said as much. Stringing along the Smash fanbase for six months with the ultimate reveal (pun unintended) of "nothing" would make the Waluigi reaction look like a walk in the park.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Roll has a different body shape and wouldn't really work. I mean, as a clone, sure, but she has too many animation and design differences. Proto Man and Bass have enough of a similar design where it could work, however. Though considering MegaMan is retro-based with hard sprite moveset, similar to Mr. Game & Watch, he probably couldn't have an easy Echo, but a clone based upon him instead.

I admit Roll isn't likley but she can work as a Echo quite well, given a few factors.

1. Mega Man is his stumpy NES self, and him and Roll were the same size in those games.
2. Animation differences aren't the trouble, balancing is, so as long as attack animations still line up with hitboxes she would work just fine.
3. She was previously Mega Man's "Echo" in Marvel Vs Capcom 1 & 2 and we know that Sakurai like that game as he brought in the Mega Upper.

Side note to cover all bases: Roll's exact depiction in MvC was shorter than Mega Man with worse frame data (her blaster isn't built into her hand) so that's a clone by Smash standards, not an Echo per se.

 

[Cosmic77]

Here's something I found a little interesting. Instead of being released in November like other regions, the Octoling amiibo three-pack is being held back a month in NA so it can launch on December 7, AKA the same day Smash Ultimate comes out.

It probably means nothing and is just a coincidence, but this would make a lot of sense if Octolings were playable in Smash. Maybe not if they're an Echo Fighter or unique character because Nintendo would have to release a redundant fourth Octoing amiibo later on, but at the very least, it'd make sense if they were alts of the Inklings.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I admit Roll isn't likley but she can work as a Echo quite well, given a few factors.

1. Mega Man is his stumpy NES self, and him and Roll were the same size in those games.
2. Animation differences aren't the trouble, balancing is, so as long as attack animations still line up with hitboxes she would work just fine.
3. She was previously Mega Man's "Echo" in Marvel Vs Capcom 1 & 2 and we know that Sakurai like that game as he brought in the Mega Upper.

Side note to cover all bases: Roll's exact depiction in MvC was shorter than Mega Man with worse frame data (her blaster isn't built into her hand) so that's a clone by Smash standards, not an Echo per se.

Actually, she wasn't an "echo" in MvC1. She actually has quite a few differences. She wasn't like Lilith or Shadow Lady. Her animations were unique as were her moves and attributes.

Though the other stuff is a fair point. Just she did play differently from MegaMan overall. She's the unique clone among that game, in comparison to the rest, who were effectively Echoes with the same moves, just different stats. Roll had her own changes. She's more like how Dr. Mario is in 4, if you will.

 

[N3ON]

I don't support any echo fighter that only became popular once people started looking for echo fighters.

Imo if they were really a character worth adding they'd have organic demand and merits recognized before people tried to fill this pigeonhole.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Wait people think we're not getting any more newcomers?

Aside from the intro thing, which is a good point, they would've said as much. Stringing along the Smash fanbase for six months with the ultimate reveal (pun unintended) of "nothing" would make the Waluigi reaction look like a walk in the park.

That also brings up the question of what were they doing for those 3 years. I mean I guess updating veterans and updating and adding stages takes a while itself but 3 years sounds like a reach.

 

[Garteam]

I dunno if this is a hint or absolutely nothing... probably nothing, but hey, anything new to talk is welcome, so:

Spoiler: Director of modern Kirby games likes a collage of Porky in Smash

View attachment 153868Link: http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/424990591

My thoughts? As much as I liked this to be a hint, i really doubt it, unless they really decided to make a subspace emissary 2 and they are gonna do with Porky the same they did with Ridley and upgrade him, if they made a story mode that was a sequel then it would make sense.

This could be something, but I think its more likely that it means nothing and Shinya just supports the idea of Porky in Smash. I don't know if Shinya would really be involved enough in development to know whether or not Porky is in the game.

That being said, I would not mind being wrong about this. Although I prefer the Masked Man, I would welcome any Earthbound newcomer with open arms.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Leon isn't a bird though, some moves like jab and forward smash could look really weird just using hands. I think Panther for Wolf could work well since he presumably has claws too

Panther in Smash...that sounds romantic

I dunno if this is a hint or absolutely nothing... probably nothing, but hey, anything new to talk is welcome, so:

Spoiler: Director of modern Kirby games likes a collage of Porky in Smash

View attachment 153868Link: http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/424990591

My thoughts? As much as I liked this to be a hint, i really doubt it, unless they really decided to make a subspace emissary 2 and they are gonna do with Porky the same they did with Ridley and upgrade him, if they made a story mode that was a sequel then it would make sense.

maybe he’s just showing off his support for Porky since he didn’t win the ballot

 

[Garteam]

I don't support any echo fighter that only became popular once people started looking for echo fighters.

Imo if they were really a character worth adding they'd have organic demand and merits recognized before people tried to fill this pigeonhole.

To be fair, a lot of the really common ideas for echo fighters had genuine popularity and were requested prior to Smash Ultimate. Daisy, Isabelle, Shadow, and Dark Samus all had their fans before echo fighters were even a thing. Even Chrom, for how much he's the butt of many jokes, has a decent following.

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

to add to my list of posts I'm too lazy to quote, someone said we're either going to get lot's of reveal trailers, or a story mode, not both, and I'd be okay if outside of the few second long spotlights and E3, we got nothing, If the story mode was worthy of being separated and made its own game. I dunno, maybe that's just me. It's not what's going to happen but it's what I'd like

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Give it another hour or two on the leak, but yeah I'd say for the most part it's confirmed fake by now.

 

[N3ON]

To be fair, a lot of the really common ideas for echo fighters had genuine popularity and were requested prior to Smash Ultimate. Daisy, Isabelle, Shadow, and Dark Samus all had their fans before echo fighters were even a thing. Even Chrom, for how much he's the butt of many jokes, has a decent following.

Right, those ones don't apply, because they did have existing popularity. I don't want all those characters, but at least their demand grew naturally.

Talking more along the lines of Ninten, Hilda, and any other character you almost never would've heard raised prior to June.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Here's a new question.

Which newcomer has the best render?

Which veteran that was previously cut at one point has the best render?

Which veteran that was never cut has the best render?

 

[Zeox]

I don't know if Shinya would really be involved enough in development to know whether or not Porky is in the game.

No idea, but Shinya must be close to Sakurai, since is the guy that is the director of every Kirby game since Super Star Ultra, it doesn't means anything, but his word have more weight that if it was Gabe Newell or anyone outside Nintendo.

maybe he’s just showing off his support for Porky since he didn’t win the ballot

Sounds about right, it is still nice to talk about something else besides fake leaks.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Right, those ones don't apply, because they did have existing popularity. I don't want all those characters, but at least their demand grew naturally.

Talking more along the lines of Ninten, Hilda, and any other character you almost never would've heard raised prior to June.

I'm curious if you think Octolings may be an exception to this because they're popularity really didn't take off until the Octo Expansion was released which happened after we knew of Echo Fighters. We really don't know how popular they might've been without the Echo term being introduced before then.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Among Dixie, Dark Samus, and Shadow, the only one that has less chance of an Echo is Dixie, but that's solely due to animating her hair. This takes a lot more effort than what is expected of an Echo. Not using it for moves, but the fact it exists. This means they have to take it into account for the entire moveset. This may move her into clone or semi-clone status by default. The other two have a near identical build or same build and don't have any animation worries. Albeit, Shadow would look better with karate chops and such, but he can easily do all of Sonic's moves anyway. Dark Samus doesn't have access to Samus' arsenal entirely, but wouldn't look weird doing the same moves due to wearing the same suit. Some various shades of phazon added would be enough to make him look right. Not unlike how Ganondorf's magic is animated.

Dixie is capable of doing all of Diddy's moveset so far that we've seen. It's just the animation that makes me wonder if she'd be a regular clone instead, with mostly the same moveset, but smaller changes(basically a Melee clone), and perhaps one unique special. This type of animation thing is the reason why Daisy can't be in her Sports Outfit, due to the fact the dress is an attack. But also because it would require way more work than an Echo would.

Just saying, but, if they were to add Dixie without her hair being used in any of her moves, wouldn’t her hair just be attached to a physics bone so that it flops about in real time without needing to be animated manually?

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

Wait people think we're not getting any more newcomers?

Aside from the intro thing, which is a good point, they would've said as much. Stringing along the Smash fanbase for six months with the ultimate reveal (pun unintended) of "nothing" would make the Waluigi reaction look like a walk in the park.

we're getting newcomers, just not many. the number of DLC characters, even if not large, will be most likely bigger than base newcomers, as that's what would be easiest for the team. I would like to come back to the long-running DLC idea, most people shoot it down whenever brought up, but it's probably the best compromise, at least that I can think of. Sakurai gives us the smash we want, with a less soul-crushing workload, (obviously it's the same if not more, but it's spread out over a longer period of time). He keeps his franchise (I'm working off the evaluation of the smash games made by MatPat, It made a lot of sense and I really agree with it) without equalization. Not perfect but as close as I can imagine we can get it. (notice the stress on me imagining it, I'm not a game designer, and I make most of my assumptions off limited information, due to me having an erratic schedule)