Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Bowserlick]

Spin-off with non-Nintendo characters. Darth Vader and Goku are fighters.

Heroes Vs. Villains as a theme.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Spin-off with non-Nintendo characters. Darth Vader and Goku are fighters.

Heroes Vs. Villains as a theme.

Heros V.S. Villians theme? All Might alt for DK Confirmed.

I'm imagining Almight on all fours doing DK's animations and it's great

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Spin-off with non-Nintendo characters. Darth Vader and Goku are fighters.

Heroes Vs. Villains as a theme.

Off-topic, but I find the fact that Goku is the most frequently supported non-video game character for Smash kinda ironic since characters like Rex and Corrin gets bashed for being "too anime".

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I think it would be a disservice to Dixie for her to be an Echo and certainly see her a strong candidate to get in as a normal newcomer (she's not as popular as K. Rool but still has respectable popularity and has both history and relevancy on her side), but nonetheless the possibility exists she could be an Echo until we see Diddy using his tail (sure his jab could just have a gentleman to it now and we just didn't him use the rapid-hitting part, but he didn't have the gentleman before so the suspicion remains) or Dixie is revealed in another role, and people denying it could happen because of misrepresentation are being like the Lucina and Daisy supporters who swore they wouldn't end up a Marth/Peach clone.

Actually Diddy does have gentleman, albeit very poorly-functioning one - you need to basically hold the button to the very end when he does the kick until he goes back to his neutral animation - otherwise it tends to shift straight to him using his rapid tail flurry, even when almost done with the ending animation.

The current jab attacks seem to follow the same order as before, but now ending on the kick specifically. It seems little difficult for it to transition on a tail flurry due how Diddy does the kick on front:

So I'm kind of leaning on him having lost his tail finisher here.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Give the man credit. He's a near useless lil ***** in his own game, but in Smash he's a total chad. Also fire or something and he makes cool noises that grab the edgy kids.



It made sense at the time he was made into a clone.

Powerful warlock who fights with magic and projectiles = guy who punches things with fire?

Yeah it doesn't really make sense, ganondorf in ocarina of time isn't the type to punch or kick people, he's the type that'll electrocute you to death.

Just had a thought...

At 70+ characters, do we even need to flesh out the roster (with last minute clones)?

With this in mind, Lucina, Dark Pit, Daisy and maybe someone like Chrom and/or Ken might be all we're getting with Echoes.

Agreed, it seems like people are throwing out echo ideas just because when an echo should be a character who's moderately popular but would never get in as a unique character on there own merits, just as daisy was

 

[Idon]

Powerful warlock who fights with magic and projectiles = guy who punches things with fire?

Yeah it doesn't really make sense, ganondorf in ocarina of time isn't the type to punch or kick people, he's the type that'll electrocute you to death.



Agreed, it seems like people are throwing out echo ideas just because when an echo should be a character who's moderately popular but would never get in as a unique character on there own merits, just as daisy was

He's not saying in-canon.
He's probably saying due to time constraints, it made sense to reuse the falcon template to shove him through the door faster.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Can someone explain to me HOW exactly Ganondorf would viably use Dead Man’s Volley in Smash? I understand why people want it but don’t really why it’s needed in a Smash considering how it’s used/described to work.

The volleying of the magic would be a non-factor, as any player could obviously avoid the attack and go for the Ganon player. It seems there’s a discrepancy between “accuracy” and “viability” of a moveset.

I mean maybe i’m missing something. In the Zelda games i’ve played, Ganondorf uses his physically strength just as much as, if not more than, the Volley attack. In Twilight Princess, it’s a Sword fight. In Wind Walker, it’s a fight where he has two swords. Ocarina of Time, he uses DMV, but then will also ground pound his fist at you if you don’t attack.

Not only is Ganondorf the way he is from a practical standpoint, but to me it seems like a viability thing too. If the “accurate portrayal” means taking away a move that has super-armor, a trait that can make him more difficult to manage, and basically gives him a projectile option that isn’t worth using that might look cool, why add it?

 

[Roberk]

Off-topic, but I find the fact that Goku is the most frequently supported non-video game character for Smash kinda ironic since characters like Rex and Corrin gets bashed for being "too anime".

IMO "anime" is an excuse for "I don't know that character" and "They weren't what I wanted".

 

[Will]

Yeah it doesn't really make sense, ganondorf in ocarina of time isn't the type to punch or kick people, he's the type that'll electrocute you to death.

Not what I meant.

Ganondorf's tech demo model was conveniently compatible with Falcon's, and since Ganondorf was already a highly requested character, it was easy swap-in. Smash Bros. at that time wasn't much of a homage-themed fighter and more just a fighter.

 

[PhantomShab]

Can someone explain to me HOW exactly Ganondorf would viably use Dead Man’s Volley in Smash? I understand why people want it but don’t really why it’s needed in a Smash considering how it’s used/described to work.

The volleying of the magic would be a non-factor, as any player could obviously avoid the attack and go for the Ganon player. It seems there’s a discrepancy between “accuracy” and “viability” of a moveset.

I mean maybe i’m missing something. In the Zelda games i’ve played, Ganondorf uses his physically strength just as much as, if not more than, the Volley attack. In Twilight Princess, it’s a Sword fight. In Wind Walker, it’s a fight where he has two swords. Ocarina of Time, he uses DMV, but then will also ground pound his fist at you if you don’t attack.

Not only is Ganondorf the way he is from a practical standpoint, but to me it seems like a viability thing too. If the “accurate portrayal” means taking away a move that has super-armor, a trait that can make him more difficult to manage, and basically gives him a projectile option that isn’t worth using that might look cool, why add it?

So Ganondorf would go from bottom tier to...still bottom tier?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Not what I meant.

Ganondorf's tech demo model was conveniently compatible with Falcon's, and since Ganondorf was already a highly requested character, it was easy swap-in. Smash Bros. at that time wasn't much of a homage-themed fighter and more just a fighter.

Probably should've specified that lol, fair enough

 

[Idon]

Can someone explain to me HOW exactly Ganondorf would viably use Dead Man’s Volley in Smash? I understand why people want it but don’t really why it’s needed in a Smash considering how it’s used/described to work.

The volleying of the magic would be a non-factor, as any player could obviously avoid the attack and go for the Ganon player. It seems there’s a discrepancy between “accuracy” and “viability” of a moveset.

I mean maybe i’m missing something. In the Zelda games i’ve played, Ganondorf uses his physically strength just as much as, if not more than, the Volley attack. In Twilight Princess, it’s a Sword fight. In Wind Walker, it’s a fight where he has two swords. Ocarina of Time, he uses DMV, but then will also ground pound his fist at you if you don’t attack.

Not only is Ganondorf the way he is from a practical standpoint, but to me it seems like a viability thing too. If the “accurate portrayal” means taking away a move that has super-armor, a trait that can make him more difficult to manage, and basically gives him a projectile option that isn’t worth using that might look cool, why add it?

Yeah, imagine how stupid it would be if someone had a projectile that got reflected back at them.

I hope you realize that Ganondorf is trash in every game he's ever appeared in so clearly they aren't especially considering viability as an excuse to not give him anything that resembles what he does in his own games. Also, a projectile is highly valuable no matter how bad it actually is. It controls space, asserts pressure offstage, allows characters to approach and retreat easier, etc etc etc. Far more useful than a big super punch that will OHKO anyone, but will never, ever, hit and leaves you vulnerable to retaliation before, during, and after the hit.


ALSO, LMAO AT WARLOCK PUNCH BEING USEFUL IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
"MORE DIFFICULT TO MANAGE" MY ASS, AHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Murlough]

Yeah, imagine how stupid it would be if someone had a projectile that got refleted back at them.

I hope you realize that Ganondorf is trash in every game he's ever appeared in so clearly they aren't especially considering viability as an excuse to not give him anything that resembles what he does in his own games. Also, a projectile is highly valuable no matter how bad it actually is. It controls space, asserts pressure offstage, allows characters to approach and retreat easier, etc etc etc. Far more useful than a big super punch that will OHKO anyone, but will never, ever, hit.


ALSO, LMAO AT WARLOCK PUNCH BEING USEFUL IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
"MORE DIFFICULT TO MANAGE" MY ***, AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hey, partner jablock into Warlock Punch is a beautiful combination......in doubles.

I've personally had my Shield broken and then died at 30% because of it but come to think of it a fully charged Fsmash would probably have killed me at the exact same percent soooo.....fair point.

 

[Deleted member]

Can someone explain to me HOW exactly Ganondorf would viably use Dead Man’s Volley in Smash? I understand why people want it but don’t really why it’s needed in a Smash considering how it’s used/described to work.

The volleying of the magic would be a non-factor, as any player could obviously avoid the attack and go for the Ganon player. It seems there’s a discrepancy between “accuracy” and “viability” of a moveset.

I mean maybe i’m missing something. In the Zelda games i’ve played, Ganondorf uses his physically strength just as much as, if not more than, the Volley attack. In Twilight Princess, it’s a Sword fight. In Wind Walker, it’s a fight where he has two swords. Ocarina of Time, he uses DMV, but then will also ground pound his fist at you if you don’t attack.

Not only is Ganondorf the way he is from a practical standpoint, but to me it seems like a viability thing too. If the “accurate portrayal” means taking away a move that has super-armor, a trait that can make him more difficult to manage, and basically gives him a projectile option that isn’t worth using that might look cool, why add it?

After having tried out a Ganondorf mod that attempted to make him "more accurate", I agree pretty much with everything you said.

Ganondorf typically fights with swords...which he now uses in Ultimate. I think his current moveset is about as accurate as they can get with what he does in Zelda and still being a well designed moveset. It honestly just comes down to the fact that just because it sounds or looks cool doesn't mean it would be good game design.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that a character will be revealed on the 22nd. That's a Sunday, and they typically don't do directs on weekends.

 

[Chandeelure]

Things you can do against Warlock Punch:

-Grab
-Roll and then do literally anything
-Counter, so Ganondorf dies at 0% lol

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Yeah, imagine how stupid it would be if someone had a projectile that got reflected back at them.

I hope you realize that Ganondorf is trash in every game he's ever appeared in so clearly they aren't especially considering viability as an excuse to not give him anything that resembles what he does in his own games. Also, a projectile is highly valuable no matter how bad it actually is. It controls space, asserts pressure offstage, allows characters to approach and retreat easier, etc etc etc. Far more useful than a big super punch that will OHKO anyone, but will never, ever, hit and leaves you vulnerable to retaliation before, during, and after the hit.


ALSO, LMAO AT WARLOCK PUNCH BEING USEFUL IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
"MORE DIFFICULT TO MANAGE" MY ***, AHAHAHAHAHAHA

If a projectile functions properly, it’s valuable. From the way everyone describes it, it wouldn’t function well. Yeah, it would be the way Ganondorf fights in like 1 game. How does that translate to Smash? The reflection aspect would probably backfire.

If you’re the opponent, why entertain the tool that doesn’t benefit you in anyway to counteract? Is Ganondorf locked into position? If he isn’t, then it’s not really Dead Mans Volley which still wouldn’t be “accurate”.

Now obviously, they could change it. But I sincerely, as a Zelda fan, don’t see why it’s THAT large of an issue that he doesn’t have it. I think it’s blown way out of proportion tbh.

It’s not like it’s a guarantee that having a projectile automatically makes you viable either. Is Warlock punch extremely situational? Without a doubt. How do you effectively balance DeadMan’s Volley while keeping it accurate though? From the mods/ideas i’ve seen, it’s not all that easy.

 

[epicgordan]

I think if we do get a 4th Party representative, it has to be the Angry Video Game Nerd. I mean, he does have his own video games, one of which expanded to Nintendo consoles (the Wii U and 3DS), and has a complete moveset to work off of. Even an Assist Trophy in the Glitch Gremlin.


His neutral Special would work similarly to Mega Man's jab and neutral aerial, only with the capacity to charge it up and unleash it (similar to Mega Man's side smash). His side Special would have the AVGN throw rocks in an arching fashion and commenting on how much they suck. His recovery would have the AVGN being launched into the air by his diarrhea dump (which can spike, btw). And his down Special would probably be the most unique counter introduced yet. The Glitch Counter. Specifically, when the AVGN gets attacked, he switches places with the attacker who in turn takes his own attacks, complete with damage and knockback. His final Smash? He summons Super Mecha Death Christ to come in and pulverize the competition for about five seconds before leaving, just like in the game.

 

[KMDP]

I don't think that a character will be revealed on the 22nd. That's a Sunday, and they typically don't do directs on weekends.

And then Nintendo does a direct on the 23rd. Incidentally, having a Direct early on the 23rd in Japan would still be the 22nd in America.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Or they’d just debut in Smash Ultimate...probably

Was referring specifically to Corrin's Smash 4 inclusion, who knows how it would be now if Corrin wasn't in 4; Corrin would certainly be in the conversation, but the "too many Fire Emblem characters/anime swordfighters" feeling would have still persisted without Corrin in Smash 4 and Corrin would have a lot more competition for a slot (when for the Smash 4 DLC newcomer promotion pick the only competition was the more difficult-to-implement Elma). If Sakurai is still following the Smash 4 trend of focusing on what's "relevant" for newcomers I think Corrin would still have a good shot, but if he was focusing more on what's most popular I think Corrin's chances would have been a lot more shaky.

Actually Diddy does have gentleman, albeit very poorly-functioning one - you need to basically hold the button to the very end when he does the kick until he goes back to his neutral animation - otherwise it tends to shift straight to him using his rapid tail flurry, even when almost done with the ending animation.

The current jab attacks seem to follow the same order as before, but now ending on the kick specifically. It seems little difficult for it to transition on a tail flurry due how Diddy does the kick on front:

So I'm kind of leaning on him having lost his tail finisher here.

Do you have a video/gif of it in action? This would be the first time I ever heard of it existing in Smash 4 and I never seen a Diddy player do it before despite his rapid-hitting jab being regarded so poorly.

 

[MBRedboy31]

You really should look up Goddess of Explosions' projectile in Slap City, it's a projectile that can be reflected back at her by nearly any attack, but she can hit it herself before the opponent does to alter its trajectory, making it very versatile.
That said, it probably works better in GoE's moveset than it would in Ganondorf's, since GoE has better tools to manipulate it with (one of the most notable being that hitting it with her n-spec causes it to go behind her, allowing for a lot of mixups.)

Besides, Ganondorf in Smash is known as the king of disrespect, why remove one of his very disrespectful options?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Can someone explain to me HOW exactly Ganondorf would viably use Dead Man’s Volley in Smash? I understand why people want it but don’t really why it’s needed in a Smash considering how it’s used/described to work.

The volleying of the magic would be a non-factor, as any player could obviously avoid the attack and go for the Ganon player. It seems there’s a discrepancy between “accuracy” and “viability” of a moveset.

A lot of moves we see in Smash aren't functioning exactly like their canon counterparts (Zelda's Specials, Ness's Specials, Pokemons' Specials, etc), instead they are modified to translate on the framework of Smash to make best use of them, while keeping their usual nature intact.

Maybe they could have the magic volley function like Pacman's Hydrants, in which you to have particularly damaging attacks to send the magic back to Dorf - Like 10% or more damage to do it. Of course the player can go try to ignore it, but maybe make the magic volley itself sort of big and imposing that sometimes it's better to try reflecting it back (if you can with enough strong attack - or just shield, though maybe there could be some shield damage).

There also could be the charging function for Dorf to use it with, which case the bigger it gets, the harder it'll be to reflect it back - and so on.

So yeah, it wouldn't be impossible or ridiculous to imagine it working well on Smash, that is.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I really love the Warlock Punch.

don't remove it please

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Do you have a video/gif of it in action? This would be the first time I ever heard of it existing in Smash 4 and I never seen a Diddy player do it before despite his rapid-hitting jab being regarded so poorly.

No gifs, but this video will do:

Besides, Ganondorf in Smash is known as the king of disrespect, why remove one of his very disrespectful options?

Project M allowed the move to stay within a Taunt (sorta, just in a form of the sword being slammed down), so it's not like it has to completely go. But knowing how vastly different the mindsets are between PM and official Smash's dev teams, I don't see it happening.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I think if we do get a 4th Party representative, it has to be the Angry Video Game Nerd. I mean, he does have his own video games, one of which expanded to Nintendo consoles (the Wii U and 3DS), and has a complete moveset to work off of. Even an Assist Trophy in the Glitch Gremlin.


His neutral Special would work similarly to Mega Man's jab and neutral aerial, only with the capacity to charge it up and unleash it (similar to Mega Man's side smash). His side Special would have the AVGN throw rocks in an arching fashion and commenting on how much they suck. His recovery would have the AVGN being launched into the air by his diarrhea dump (which can spike, btw). And his down Special would probably be the most unique counter introduced yet. The Glitch Counter. Specifically, when the AVGN gets attacked, he switches places with the attacker who in turn takes his own attacks, complete with damage and knockback. His final Smash? He summons Super Mecha Death Christ to come in and pulverize the competition for about five seconds before leaving, just like in the game.

Hmmmm, a non-video game newcomer...

Goku, potentially the most iconic anime/manga character worldwide, who has had a consistent fan base of people asking for his Smash inclusion...

Or internet man who says the funny f-word a lot...

 

[osby]

After having tried out a Ganondorf mod that attempted to make him "more accurate", I agree pretty much with everything you said.

Ganondorf typically fights with swords...which he now uses in Ultimate. I think his current moveset is about as accurate as they can get with what he does in Zelda and still being a well designed moveset. It honestly just comes down to the fact that just because it sounds or looks cool doesn't mean it would be good game design.

I don't have an issues with characters being fighters first and references to their own game second. Ganondorf can be imposing and powerful with more accurate to canon specials, too but his current design works too. It's not like he got references to F-Zero from Captain Falcon.

Also I think I know that mod and yeah, it might have been make me sour towards a more magic heavy moveset idea.

 

[blackghost]

I think more Echoes will definitely be a given for base game and DLC. They're easier to make compared to regular fighters and most people seem to be happy their favorites got in Smash period, regardless of if they're a clone or not.

Simply put, I think there will be at least one or two more. I personally don't think they made a whole new term just to announce Daisy, Dark Pit and Lucina.

*Crosses fingers for Octoling Echo...* Hey, a guy can dream, right?

echoes as dlc would not go over well. i mena look at street fighter 4 decapre and dbfz with there 3rd goku and vegeta. neither was very well received and those characters aren't clones.

DLC is driven by hype and designed with sales in mind. while smash dlc prints money as far as we can tell, an echo would draw heavy criticism. Paying for something that is in the base game (technically) would also draw the deadly critique "why wasn't this in the base game?"

 

[Omega Tyrant]

No gifs, but this video will do:

Thanks, I'm surprised I never seen it once in the nearly four years since Smash 4's release. It doesn't look particularly effective, but I would figure I would have seen it used at some point with all the Diddy players that exist, especially pre-nerf.

 

[New_Dumal]

Something that is constantly blurring our vision around the Echo-discussion is that we don't know where exactly is the line between a semi-clone and a echo.At the three examples we have until now there's not a single serious change on animations.

So if Dixie was implemented would she be closer to the level of differences of Doc and Mario, or to Pit and D.Pit ?
Since she can't use the rocket barrels and should (I think we make this a bigger problem than it is) use her hair in some way, it's safe to say that everything points to a semiclone over a Echo.
Sakurai stated that Doc was a dessert into Smash4 (together with D.Pit and Lucina) so maybe implementing with some little move changes(and stats changes) is easier than we think. At the same time, I think we got into a state where a character be announced as a Echo is better than be announced as a proper character and be a clone. Because people accepts Echoes now, it's like not being their own slot is a positive thing.


I don't know how, but I'm more confident about 2 Dk newcomers, finally.
I had lost all my hope before, but seeing all that "leaks" and investment into K.Rool and Dixie, looks like it can finally happen.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Thanks, I'm surprised I never seen it once in the nearly four years since Smash 4's release. It doesn't look particularly effective, but I would figure I would have seen it used at some point with all the Diddy players that exist, especially pre-nerf.

Well, it's not very functional or easy to use consistently, so not ever seeing it in any regular play is no surprise. But yeah.

 

[Staarih]

Paying for something that is in the base game (technically) would also draw the deadly critique "why wasn't this in the base game?"

This. Putting clones behind a paywall definitely wouldn't go down well. Clones have typically been a result of time constraints, and with DLC being post-production, there technically shouldn't be time constraints... So having clones as DLC would sort of defeat the purpose imo. Even if a new name was coined for the cloniest of clones (Echoes), I wouldn't expect Sakurai to go all out on clones just for the sake of a new name.

 

[Bowserlick]

Dixie Kong should be a semi-clone, completely original character, or saved for a different game over being an Echo (which really makes little sense and would trap her as a simple equation change applied to Diddy).

 

[Omega Tyrant]

echoes as dlc would not go over well. i mena look at street fighter 4 decapre and dbfz with there 3rd goku and vegeta. neither was very well received and those characters aren't clones.

DLC is driven by hype and designed with sales in mind. while smash dlc prints money as far as we can tell, an echo would draw heavy criticism. Paying for something that is in the base game (technically) would also draw the deadly critique "why wasn't this in the base game?"

If the Echoes were released alongside another full-fledged character and were much cheaper (as they probably would be, the returning veterans cost less than Corrin did in Smash 4's DLC), I think Echoes as DLC would be received alright. The disappointment would come if an Echo was presented alone as a hype new character, which judging by how Lucina/Dark Pit/Daisy were revealed, probably wouldn't be done.

 

[osby]

Actually it's kinda interesting how eager people are for paying for alt costumes but not for echoes.

 

[Pyra]

Something that is constantly blurring our vision around the Echo-discussion is that we don't know where exactly is the line between a semi-clone and a echo.At the three examples we have until now there's not a single serious change on animations.

So if Dixie was implemented would she be closer to the level of differences of Doc and Mario, or to Pit and D.Pit ?

Mario and Luigi.

Actually it's kinda interesting how eager people are for paying for alt costumes but not for echoes.

Depends. If the costumes are in a costume pack, more than one in a purchase, it's an easy buy to me. If it's one by one, I probably wont.
And since an echo is an alt costume with extra steps...

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Something that is constantly blurring our vision around the Echo-discussion is that we don't know where exactly is the line between a semi-clone and a echo.At the three examples we have until now there's not a single serious change on animations.

So if Dixie was implemented would she be closer to the level of differences of Doc and Mario, or to Pit and D.Pit ?
Since she can't use the rocket barrels and should (I think we make this a bigger problem than it is) use her hair in some way, it's safe to say that everything points to a semiclone over a Echo.
Sakurai stated that Doc was a dessert into Smash4 (together with D.Pit and Lucina) so maybe implementing with some little move changes(and stats changes) is easier than we think. At the same time, I think we got into a state where a character be announced as a Echo is better than be announced as a proper character and be a clone. Because people accepts Echoes now, it's like not being their own slot is a positive thing.

I'm quite hoping for a semi-clone Dixie a well - probably in levels of Lucas or Wolf to really nail her nicely while not being resource-intensive to the dev team.

The current view so far is that due this game being said to have "fewer newcomers", combined with just how easy it is to make Echoes, seems to point on the implications that Sakurai would go ease his workload and the ever-growing demand on some recurring character wishes via making them Echoes, while investing more unique and popular requests up to this point to be the game's "ultimate" newcomers, like Ridley is at the moment.

It's kind of why the idea that K.Rool being this game's DK-newcomer while Dixie's an echo seems to have become so popular right now. (Especially with how Diddy's not using his tail anymore in his moveset.)

 

[Deleted member]

Actually it's kinda interesting how eager people are for paying for alt costumes but not for echoes.

Because costumes don't take up "slots" I guess.

Only costume I'd pay for is the bearded Ryu

 

[osby]

Dixie Kong should be a semi-clone, completely original character, or saved for a different game over being an Echo (which really makes little sense and would trap her as a simple equation change applied to Diddy).

Not that I think being an echo suits her but I'd take echo Daisy in Smash Ultimate over hypothetical next Smash game who knows how many years later and might not even be in that.
Dixie without her hair spin would be weird but I wouldn't risk one of my most wanted characters just because they might 'save' her for the future.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

echoes as dlc would not go over well. i mena look at street fighter 4 decapre and dbfz with there 3rd goku and vegeta. neither was very well received and those characters aren't clones.

DLC is driven by hype and designed with sales in mind. while smash dlc prints money as far as we can tell, an echo would draw heavy criticism. Paying for something that is in the base game (technically) would also draw the deadly critique "why wasn't this in the base game?"

I don't think it would be too big of a deal, echoes are basically just glorified costumes anyway and I don't see people turning down dlc costumes

 

[Pyra]

Not that I think being an echo suits her but I'd take echo Daisy in Smash Ultimate over hypothetical next Smash game who knows how many years later and might not even be in that.
Daisy without her hair spin would be weird but I wouldn't risk one of my most wanted characters just because they might 'save' her for the future.

I know you meant Dixie, but now I need Daisy to have a hair spin or I'm going to riot.