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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Imadethistoseealeak

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No. I like her design best as well. Far better than Spring Man's. So that's my first and utmost reason. Don't know anything about her abilities.
Well besides stretchy "ARMS" she's most known for her ability to slow down / freeze time. I imagine one or two of her abilities would be like Witch Time. But since in ARMS she freezes incoming attacks opposed to people I would perfer her ability to freeze incoming projectiles within a certain radius. Have fun balancing that Sakurai lol.

I imagine a couple of her neutrals could also use her hands, a couple of smacks as she does that in the game at the end of her throw.

She would be built around creating space with long ranged attacks and controlling the enmies use of projectiles. Just like in the game though she would probably be pretty slow and have lots of lag if her moves don't connect.
 

ColietheGoalie

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Yeah, and those specific characters that should be changed so that they are substantial and unique and the characters that aren't in that should be in should be added with the respect they deserve.


I'm not talking about "who deserves or doesn't deserve" to be in Smash. I'm saying if you're going to put a character in, go through the effort of putting them in, in a way that doesn't ignore their series, personality, or abilities.
I think we can blame Melee for this. The idea of "add them as a clone to pad out the roster" was a developmental choice, that while sensible, has had residual effects on the series to this day.

For me, I'm not offended by clones, but certainly the idea that each character is a unique and carefully crafted fighter is the best result (and honestly what I expect should the series ever reboot).
 

Idon

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Over a month out of E3 and my most wanted is still the most reasonable Echo suggestion...

It must be 2018
Is it reasonable though?
Boshi is a SMRPG character right?

So doesn't that make him 3rd party and a hassle to put in?
 

True Blue Warrior

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echoes as dlc would not go over well. i mena look at street fighter 4 decapre and dbfz with there 3rd goku and vegeta. neither was very well received and those characters aren't clones.
As someone who was around for Ultra Street Fighter 4 speculation, the big reason why Decapre got such a negative reaction was that Capcom kept the mysterious 5th character for 8 months in order to drum up hype and intrigue only to reveal a character that didn't live up to the hype they generated and so a lot of people got really angry.

To their credit, Toriyama's artstyle is very distinctive. Xenoblade's character art is pretty standard issue compared to that.
Well I can't deny Goku has a distinct and memorable design that is recognisable even in silhouette. Dragon Ball Z also has the benefit of having a coolness to its aesthetics that makes it attractive to even people that otherwise complain about "bland modern anime designs."
 

Swamp Sensei

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As someone who was around for Ultra Street Fighter 4 speculation, the big reason why Decapre got such a negative reaction was that Capcom kept the mysterious 5th character for 8 months in order to drum up hype and intrigue only to reveal a character that didn't live up to the hype they generated and so a lot of people got really angry.
Even then, Decapre grew on people.

She's fairly popular now.
 

Omega Tyrant

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I was also referring to Corrin only, said they due to the two genders the avatar has, and the only competition for them I could think of FE wise would be Alm and/or Celica
If Corrin wasn't in 4 they would be competing with the entire pool of viable characters for a newcomer slot, not just FE characters unless Sakurai decided to dedicate a slot specifically to a new FE character.
 

KMDP

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As someone who was around for Ultra Street Fighter 4 speculation, the big reason why Decapre got such a negative reaction was that Capcom kept the mysterious 5th character for 8 months in order to drum up hype and intrigue only to reveal a character that didn't live up to the hype they generated and so a lot of people got really angry.



Well I can't deny Goku has a distinct and memorable design that is recognisable even in silhouette. Dragon Ball Z also has the benefit of having a coolness to its aesthetics that makes it attractive to even people that otherwise complain about "bland modern anime designs."
We tawkin' 'bout Son Goku? What a coinkidink, I just made a Stock Icon for him (and NiGHTS)! Imadethistoseealeak Imadethistoseealeak , both are on the Stock Icon thread.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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If they charge an Echo character at $3.99 there will be riots.

But what do you guys think are possible DLC characters?
Probably some of the Western third-parties.

Is it reasonable though?
Boshi is a SMRPG character right?

So doesn't that make him 3rd party and a hassle to put in?
Basically, yes. Not that Zinith minds it.

Honestly, it's a bit baffling to me that they never considered putting a "bad Yoshi" that perfectly exists into the spin-offs, instead of a guy made out of whole cloth just to give Wario a tennis partner, even when Square has eventually got to make Mario sports spin-offs (no offense to Waluigi fans).
 
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Idon

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I think we can blame Melee for this. The idea of "add them as a clone to pad out the roster" was a developmental choice, that while sensible, has had residual effects on the series to this day.

For me, I'm not offended by clones, but certainly the idea that each character is a unique and carefully crafted fighter is the best result (and honestly what I expect should the series ever reboot).
Honestly, Pichu, TLinlk, YLink, Ganondorf, etc etc are all characters I... mostly like.

Had they something to stand out like say, a ukulele, masks, korok leaf, magic, I'd be demanding their inclusion back.

As they are now though, I just feel apathy, which is something I really don't want to feel for "the biggest crossover in video game history."
 

KMDP

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Even if we don't consider that, Boshi is still not important or popular at all.
And then everyone falls silent, ruminating on the fact that the best choice for Echo Fighter is an obscure character that is not important or popular at all.
 

Mutsukki

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That was my point actually. Really, Dixie Kong is the best Echo y'all could come up with?
Shadow and Dark Samus are already way better options than Boshi, lol. Even Dixie is better. Ninten too. I think the list is pretty big for Echo Fighters that could make it in before Boshi is even considered.
 

RandomAce

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Doubtful. DLC characters need to be marketable to sell well, to make them worth the companies' investment spent. That's why all the DLC in Smash 4 can be broken down into 3 categories:
- Fan Favorite Veterans (Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy)
- Third Party Icons (Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta)
- Advertising (Corrin)
We can cross off Fan Favorite veterans now since they’re all in.

So just two types:
- Third Parties
- Advertising

And something new:
- Ballot Picks

I think it’s possible that we can get an oddball to be honest, but not by a lot, I mean I’m pretty sure some people will buy it.
 

N3ON

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SMRPG is my favourite SNES game, and Boshi is not the best choice for an echo fighter.

Good echo fighter ideas actually have popularity (that didn't stem solely from them being possible echo fighters), some degree of overall relevance, or ideally, both.
 
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SuperSceptile15

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http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/424763954#p424766661

I found some pretty funny Piklopedia recipe entries made by a potentially ironic Louie supporter on /v/. Here are two:

"Hattius Goombacus:
This puffy creature is best grilled rare, over a high flame for a short amount of time, leaving the outside burnt and crispy to preserve the juicy tears inside the meat. Heavily salt it afterwards and spinkled with diced tomatoes, herbs and mushrooms.
The bandanna can also be made into a delicious salad, buy first slicing it and placing it into a bowl with more diced tomatoes and pickled peppers. A vinegar based dressing is best used, to compliment the bandanna.
The spear can also be used as a nice decorative piece, used for special occasions."

"Fattular Kroolioid:

This bulbous reptile is best cooked into a savory stew. First, slice off the immense layers of fat, so that the small, shrimp-like muscles are revealed. slice off as much as you can and them season them with salt and let it sit in the refrigerator until the rest of the ingredients are collected.
Then take the blood that has poured out of its body and dump it into a large pot. Place it on the stove and set it on high. While it is heating up, add water and olive oil to help balance out the taste. Reach back into the refrigerator to grab the chilled meat and drop it into the pot. The boiling water will scald the meat and negate the need for any preheating.
Cut up some onions, garlic and potatoes and drop them in as well for added vegetable flavor, then sprinkle some oregano and cilantro to finish it off. Continue to let it boil for about 5 minutes until meat has full cooked. Feel free to use the cake as a napkin if needed, and to wear the crown left over, as this is a meal meant for kings!"
 

Bowserlick

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If Geno gets in, there might be some semblance of a possibility that Boshi gets slapped in the roster as an Echo.
 

BluePikmin11

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Topic: Are there any characters you are currently not predicting to be in the base roster, but are keeping an eye on the real possibility of it happening? Right now, I am being wary of these characters possibly happening:

-Heihachi (Tekken)
-Lloyd Irving (Tales of)
-Saber Artoria (Fate)
-Hyouma Kyouma (Steins;Gate)
-Ashley (WarioWare)
-Dark Samus (Metroid)
-Excitebiker (Excitebike)
-Frogger (Frogger)
-Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
-Jill (Resident Evil)
-Mini-Kangaroo Nintendo Toy Mascot
-Prince Sable (For the Frog the Bell Tolls)
-Ryu Hayabasa (Ninja Gaiden)

Half of these are from Japanese third-party franchises that I know are globally popular.
 
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RandomAce

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Topic: Are there any characters you are currently not predicting to be in the base roster, but are keeping an eye on the real possibility of it happening? Right now, I am being wary of these characters possibly happening:

-Heihachi (Tekken)
-Lloyd Irving (Tales of)
-Saber Artoria (Fate)
-Hyouma Kyouma (Steins;Gate)
-Ashley (WarioWare)
-Dark Samus (Metroid)
-Excitebiker (Excitebike)
-Frogger (Frogger)
-Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
-Jill (Resident Evil)
-Mini-Kangaroo Nintendo Toy Mascot
-Prince Sable (For the Frog the Bell Tolls)
-Ryu Hayabasa (Ninja Gaiden)

Half of these are from Japanese third-party franchises that I know are globally popular.
Sora is the only one on this list that is definitely worth keeping an eye out, most likley as DLC.

He was HEAVILY pushed during the ballot and had support that steamed since Brawl and has had main games that Nintendo fans fondly remember that used to be exclusive to Nintendo consoles.

If there was any 3rd Party that did well on the ballot, it’s him.

Lloyd is another possibility.

He did have a lot of support and had a Mii costume as well with a game that was exclusive to Nintendo as well that I think many fans remember about, so I think he has chance as both Base and DLC.
 
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KMDP

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That was my point actually. Really, Dixie Kong is the best Echo y'all could come up with?
Let's go through the potential Echo Fighter choices, shall we?

Boshi: Much too obscure
Dixie Kong: Lacks a tail, has other skills that Sakurai would be remiss to ignore.
Impa: Impa trained Sheik, outside of Hyrule Warriors it makes sense for them to fight similarly.
Hilda: A one-off Zelda character, otherwise okay, since she probably has the same skillset as Zelda and the chosen Zelda is from the same game duology.
Ravio: How many Links is too many?
Dark Samus: Doesn't use most of Samus' arsenal, and has a nigh-completely separate arsenal to work with.
Ninten: Potentially too similar to Ness to justify inclusion, without a major character redesign.
Black Shadow: A possibility, though F-Zero has been dormant for a while.
Chrom: Can't use fire in his attacks, performs Aether recovery jump differently
Isabelle: Putting aside that she has different proportions, having her fight might be OOC.
Elma/Rex & Pyra: No.
Raiden: People would probably prefer Cyborg Ninja Raiden, he is capable of doing everything Snake does in Smash, though his Jab combo is different in MGS2.
Tails: Physically incapable of performing some of Sonic's moves, like Dixie has other skills that would be wasted on an Echo designation.
Shadow: While Shadow usually plays the same as Sonic, this is only in the 3D Platformers; in Spin-offs where characters have differences he plays differently
Ms. PAC-MAN: Same issue as Ninten.
Ken: The Clone Character, though he would need his Focus Attack changed to reflect his Focus Attack in Street Fighter IV.
Zack: While he uses the Buster Sword, he doesn't necessarily use it in the same way; though you can justif.y it Lucina style.
 
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Iridium

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There was a problem fetching the tweet

Take this how you will. I don't main either character, so I'm not sure if I should care at this point.
 

RandomAce

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I stand by Impa being the best choice for a new echo fighter.
Another Zelda clone?

Half of Zelda’s roster are clones or stem from other characters (Toon Link, Young Link, Ganondorf).

But I do admit that Impa does make sense since she is Sheik’s teacher after all, (a lot more than some of the other choices, Dixie) but at this point I want Zelda to have another unique character.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Let's go through the potential Echo Fighter choices, shall we?

Boshi: Much too obscure
Dixie Kong: Lacks a tail, has other skills that Sakurai would be remiss to ignore.
Impa: Impa trained Sheik, outside of Hyrule Warriors it makes sense for them to fight similarly.
Hilda: A one-off Zelda character, otherwise okay, since she probably has the same skillset as Zelda and the chosen Zelda is from the same game duology.
Ravio: How many Links is too many?
Dark Samus: Doesn't use most of Samus' arsenal, and has a nigh-completely separate arsenal to work with.
Ninten: Potentially too similar to Ness to justify inclusion, without a major character redesign.
Black Shadow: A possibility, though F-Zero has been dormant for a while.
Chrom: Can't use fire in his attacks, performs Aether recovery jump differently
Isabelle: Putting aside that she has different proportions, having her fight might be OOC.
Elma/Rex & Pyra: No.
Raiden: People would probably prefer Cyborg Ninja Raiden, he is capable of doing everything Snake does in Smash, though his Jab combo is different in MGS2.
Tails: Physically incapable of performing some of Sonic's moves, like Dixie has other skills that would be wasted on an Echo designation.
Shadow: While Shadow usually plays the same as Sonic, this is only in the 3D Platformers; in Spin-offs where characters have differences he plays differently
Ms. PAC-MAN: Same issue as Ninten.
Ken: The Clone Character, though he would need his Focus Attack changed to reflect his Focus Attack in Street Fighter IV.
Zack: While he uses the Buster Sword, he doesn't necessarily use it in the same way; though you can justif.y it Lucina style.
People seriously suggested Elma and Rex as echoes?

Seriously?!
 

Roberk

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That was my point actually. Really, Dixie Kong is the best Echo y'all could come up with?
People only talk about Dixie a lot because people get into pissing matches whether she could be a clone or not. There are some actually plausible Echoes like Ninten, Dark Samus, Chrom, etc.
 

KMDP

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People seriously suggested Elma and Rex as echoes?

Seriously?!
Yes, I'm fairly sure some leakers have claimed them as Shulk echoes.
That's exactly why Sakurai didn't put the Villager in Brawl. And, look what happened.
Irrelevent, Sakurai didn't pick BOTW Zelda because she was a Scholar, not a Combatant, just like Isabelle.
 
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Iridium

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This just means parrying is gonna be rewarding as ****. Especially as Ryu for that sound effect
Well, yeah, but I was wondering how Ganondorf could get his f-smash to hit with the amount of start-up it seems to have. But I do agree that parrying will be more rewarding, albeit more risky without mastering.
 

**Gilgamesh**

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I would personally be glad if they removed ganons warlock punch because UNLIKE Falcon, Ganon is slow as heck in the air which is the only feasible way you could ever land that move against any opponent that isn't new and even besides weak players, the move RARELY lands in the air. I don't care for it because I am never able to actually use it against decent people, instead they are able to do 20 other options for a punish (the move is to slow to even do a hard read on the ground and you need A STRONG hard read FOR falcon in the air .... Offstage . If they decrease the start-up and decrease kill power, then I can be convinced to have it stay. I personally HATE moves that are useless vs reasonable opponents. I really did like the fact they started to address this in Smash 4 and now we have Snake Nikita actually being USEFUL due to the speed being drastically increased and ending lag decreased. I praise these type of decisions.
 

RileyXY1

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Yes, I'm fairly sure some leakers have claimed them as Shulk echoes.

Irrelevent, Sakurai didn't pick BOTW Zelda because she was a Scholar, not a Combatant, just like Isabelle.
Well, just because they don't fight in their home games does not mean that they should not be fighters. If that's the case, then Captain Falcon, Dr. Mario, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Duck Hunt should not be playable.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Yes, I'm fairly sure some leakers have claimed them as Shulk echoes.

Irrelevent, Sakurai didn't pick BOTW Zelda because she was a Scholar, not a Combatant, just like Isabelle.
I only remember seeing Rex as a Shulk echo in some “leaks” but Elma?

WHYYYYYYYYY?!

If Elma’s an echo at all I finna be pissed
 
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