Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Guh-Huzzah!]

https://imgtc.com/i/k5DSo0d.png

This photo was just posted on Gamefaqs with this list of characters:

Newcomers:
King K. Rool
Decidueye
Ashley
Isaac
Ayumi Tachibana
Excitebiker
Travis Touchdown
Heihachi

Echoes:
Dixie Kong
Chrom
Dark Samus
Isabelle


The post in question: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76819589

Thoughts? The render looks kinda fake to me but hey, it's at least a photo leak.

Eh...Render doesn't look real

 

[Dandelionel]

Fake af

I'm getting REALLY tired of seeing Dixie showing up too many times as an Echo fighter. She doesn't use the Peanut Popgun or Rocketbarrel

Daisy can't use a parasol or float, and Lucina shouldn't be fighting like Marth at all. I'm not saying that Dixie should be an echo but at least she could be one if Sakurai wanted to, she fits Diddy's body to a t, which is enough to be an echo. So I wouldn't say that it's fake just because Dixie doesn't have a unique moveset.

 

[KMDP]

It's absolutely fake.

Ashley

It's absolutely real.

Same with Isaac for me.

Fake af

I'm getting REALLY tired of seeing Dixie showing up too many times as an Echo fighter. She doesn't use the Peanut Popgun or Rocketbarrel

Yeah, anyone who suggests Dixie as a Diddy echo has obviously no knowledge of how she plays in Donkey Kong Country.

The two have similar builds, that's it. Other than that they're not even remotely similar. Even with Sonic and Shadow, Shadow regularly plays just like Sonic in the platformers (though outside the 3D platformers, they're usually different).

 

[?????????????]

Daisy can't use a parasol or float, and Lucina shouldn't be fighting like Marth at all. I'm not saying that Dixie should be an echo but at least she could be one if Sakurai wanted to, she fits Diddy's body to a t, which is enough to be an echo. So I wouldn't say that it's fake just because Dixie doesn't have a unique moveset.

The one thing is...

Daisy and Lucina don’t really have any signature “abilities;” their moveset can be anything that makes sense.

But Dixie’s hair twirl is a signature part of her character.

I think she’d have to be a semi-clone, like Dr. Mario, at worst.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

People who think Vergeben isn't legit just because he didn't leak everything down to the exact detail don't understand how these leakers gain their information, or even how their sources do, if his leak was as incredibly detailed as a lot of those fake ones are he'd literally be a god tier leaker, stuff like that just doesn't happen. It's all fourth, fifth or sixth hand information, it's very likely that Vergeben's source doesn't even know the guy who's actually the source of it all, or that the source of Vergeben's source even knows who's leaking this stuff, furthermore the original source of these leaks, however far he might be down the line, has very likely only seen bits and pieces from the game, or maybe only even have heard about them, that's how far out legitimate leaks tend to be.

Vergeben gets a lot of stuff wrong, so I'm not inclined to believe everything he ever says, but I have absolutely no reason not to believe his initial Smash leak, which included Simon, and only all the reason in the world to do so. We also have to take into account that this is a guy who's leaked a lot of stuff correctly outside of Smash too, and although his record is very patchy you don't just guess your way to becoming a semi-credible leaker, the much more logical explanation is that he simply has a very mixed bag of sources.

The things he got right were no coincidence, and selling his Ridley prediction short is absolutely crazy, saying anything other than Ridley being considered almost impossible by the Smash community is just revisionism. It's not even that I desperately want his leak to be real, I already got what I wanted out of it, and before then I was far more cautious about it, but I do think that he deserves a bit of due credit for actually getting his stuff right.

 

[SlickWylde]

Fake leak is obviously fake. They make it zoomed in/blurry like that to hide artistry stuff they did. (Someone with art skill can explain. I don't know much about art, but I know when people use effects to hide stuff)

 

[Will]

I could see Ryu Hayabusa happening perhaps as a DLC fighter if they plan to do that.

Stop giving me pipe dreams.

 

[Eldrake]

I am calling fake on that, just from the blurry photo that don't even show K. Rool's model alone.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Ok, so I wanna think of another game.

Sell me on some potential newcomers I’ll name, in fifty words or less. What makes them unique? What do they represent? What’s their move set potential? Any other perks?

I’ll start with these three potential newcomers:

- Ashley
- Bandana Dee (I already support him, but I’m listing him here anyway)
- Decidueye

Go!

Ashley:
Okay so as a witch, Ashley could be a buffer/debuffer, but frankly that's a little dull to me. However as a Witch, Ashley could easily fit the role of summoner and bring forth the wacky cast of WarioWare to perform specials for her.

Bandana Waddle Dee:
As a spear wielder, BWD has access to a solid midrange game. The little guy could be a decent aerial fighter with decent range. The ability to pierce through stage pieces is an idea I've been playing with using Dee's spear's range.

Decidueye
Decidueye could be one of the best aerial fighters around. Whilst archers aren't exactly a new concept, Decidueye could perform all manner of trick shots from above, potentially with grass traps to restrain fighters movements.

Quite enjoyed this. I don't even like Ashley or Decidueye but it's fun to come up with workable roles for them.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Fake leak is obviously fake. They make it zoomed in/blurry like that to hide artistry stuff they did. (Someone with art skill can explain. I don't know much about art, but I know when people use effects to hide stuff)

As an on and off Photoshopper, I, too, can tell the tricks of the trade when it comes to falsified images.

And plot twist: I haven’t even done anything like these guys do!

Also, not showing K. Rool’s model is very suspicious in itself

 

[MasterOfKnees]

https://imgtc.com/i/k5DSo0d.png

This photo was just posted on Gamefaqs with this list of characters:

Newcomers:
King K. Rool
Decidueye
Ashley
Isaac
Ayumi Tachibana
Excitebiker
Travis Touchdown
Heihachi

Echoes:
Dixie Kong
Chrom
Dark Samus
Isabelle


The post in question: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76819589

Thoughts? The render looks kinda fake to me but hey, it's at least a photo leak.

It's such a shame that these leakers can only ever seem to grab a screenshot of UI elements and never the actual models, they must all have really shaky hands or something.

 

[Bowserlick]

Reason Against Dixie Kong as an Echo

- She was going to be a tag-team partner of Diddy.
- Thus, there had to be differences where one would be better in a situation than the other
- A tag-team of Pit and Dark Pit would be a waste

 

[Houndstooth]

Geno serves as a nifty way to tie a popular character like Rosalina to the older stuff in the franchise before her existence.

If he ever did make a come back I want to see the two of them operating together.

First time I saw Super Mario Galaxy, I thought about that. Really feels like Geno's "Higher Authority" that he served could be Rosalina. If they ever get the rights back, then that is where he needs to be!

Also, reminds me of Rosalina's announcement in Sm4sh. The Kirby crashing into Rainbow Road on Mario Kart 8? Always thought Rainbow Road worked with Geno. And, that Cloudtop Cruise level on MK8 is perfect for Mallow. Definite places where those two could fit in to the Mario canon.

 

[Makai Wars]

We've had a million "blurry photo leaks" before and that K. Rool model looks kinda bad. Also sketchy how they show the portrait in a fight but not on a much harder to fake character select screen.
Funny how the squid in that photo is the one i drew for my icon though lol

 

[New_Dumal]

The first time I saw Ayumi Tachibana name on a leak I googled to find who she was and where she's from.
I never needed to google a actual newcomer before, so I think her chances are slim.

At least it has a picture and good bets. I'd give this a 7/10.
A tier leak: picture, good amount of newcomers, great names (aside from Ayumi), no date or explanation about how they got info.

I'm tired of people that tries to justify how they got stuff. Most people who really leak stuff does it without mentioning this subject.

 

[YoshiandToad]

First time I saw Super Mario Galaxy, I thought about that. Really feels like Geno's "Higher Authority" that he served could be Rosalina. If they ever get the rights back, then that is where he needs to be!

Also, reminds me of Rosalina's announcement in Sm4sh. The Kirby crashing into Rainbow Road on Mario Kart 8? Always thought Rainbow Road worked with Geno. And, that Cloudtop Cruise level on MK8 is perfect for Mallow. Definite places where those two could fit in to the Mario canon.

Plot twist: Geno was Rosalia's Luma the entire time and he's been in the game since Sm4sh

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Also, K. Rool’s portrait is suspiciously tilted. Everyone else’s portrait inside their little diamond next to the damage% is always upright according to their site renders.

 

[dezeray112]

So a list of sleeper characters where I think at least one will make it in IMO.

Dillon
Popular one off Zelda Character not disconfirmed
Lloyd Irving
Yuri Lowell
Koei Tecmo character(Ryu or Kasumi)
Popular western character not Crash or Ray Man
Mach Rider
Excite Biker
Reimu Hakurei
Heihachi
Nightmare
Arle Nadja
Pokemon Newcomer that isn't Decidueye, Mimikyu or Lycanroc

On some of the choices:

The Namco Bandai choices:

If I were to pick which one out of your list, I would opt for Tekken's Heihachi with Lloyd and Yuri as my second and third choices. If I remember correctly during an interview with Sakurai, Heihachi was one of the characters considered for Smash Wii-U/3DS but was cut due to difficulties in implementing his moveset:

"Sakurai: There were none. We basically thought of all the characters at the start of development. We decided on characters we knew we could make. However, there were a few in consideration, such as Heihachi from “Tekken.”

Interviewer: Heihachi!

Sakurai: That’s right. However, implementing Heihachi’s movement in Smash would be difficult…"

Source: https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/06/26/800/

Tecmo Koei choices:

I would opt for either of the two you listed as either being a playable or assist trophy.

Pokemon Newcomer that isn't Decidueye, Mimikyu or Lycanroc:

If there was a Pokemon newcomer that isn't the three above, I personally would love to see a Team Rocket Grunt Trainer or a Pokemon Rival Trainer as a newcomer.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

https://imgtc.com/i/k5DSo0d.png

This photo was just posted on Gamefaqs with this list of characters:

Newcomers:
King K. Rool
Decidueye
Ashley
Isaac
Ayumi Tachibana
Excitebiker
Travis Touchdown
Heihachi

Echoes:
Dixie Kong
Chrom
Dark Samus
Isabelle


The post in question: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76819589

Thoughts? The render looks kinda fake to me but hey, it's at least a photo leak.

I'm fairly certain that's a fake K.Rool render/player icon slapped over footage of the initial Inkling gameplay footage from E3.

If I feel like it I may see if it's similar. Or maybe I'll let somebody else do it.

 

[MainJPW]

https://imgtc.com/i/k5DSo0d.png

This photo was just posted on Gamefaqs with this list of characters:

Newcomers:
King K. Rool
Decidueye
Ashley
Isaac
Ayumi Tachibana
Excitebiker
Travis Touchdown
Heihachi

Echoes:
Dixie Kong
Chrom
Dark Samus
Isabelle


The post in question: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76819589

Thoughts? The render looks kinda fake to me but hey, it's at least a photo leak.

It’s just his trophy model but slightly tweaked:

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Leaker killed his leak with Ayumi and Travis.

 

[?????????????]

Leaker killed his leak with Ayumi and Travis.

The big thing is that I doubt anyone outside the development team knows the full roster, but I don't have an issue with Ayumi or Travis as individual characters.

Travis is Nintendo exclusive (I think), has already had two games, and has an upcoming third. That wouldn't surprise me.

Ayumi WOULD surprise me, but that's the point; your typical unexpected character. And unlike the other ones I see get tossed around, like Excitebiker, I almost NEVER see anyone say Ayumi, so it'd truly be surprising.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Daisy can't use a parasol or float, and Lucina shouldn't be fighting like Marth at all. I'm not saying that Dixie should be an echo but at least she could be one if Sakurai wanted to, she fits Diddy's body to a t, which is enough to be an echo. So I wouldn't say that it's fake just because Dixie doesn't have a unique moveset.

There's a big difference between Daisy and Dixie. Dixie has a signature ability, which is her hair as she can do many moves using it

What's Daisy's special ability? Flowers....and daisies. Since Peach has heart-shaped elements incorporated in her attacks, Daisy's was easy to do with changing the hearts to flowers/daisies

 

[Hinata]

I just realized it's only been a little over a month since we got that huge info-dump on Smash Ultimate.

I swear to god, it feels like it happened 6 months ago. That's how starved I am for new info.

 

[New_Dumal]

I remember to bring a interview where Suda let it show that Travis was not fully considered yet (recently into a interview about the NMH spin off development). It's a shame, but I think it shows that or he is a fantastic liar/deceiver, or Travis can only happen as a DLC.

 

[KMDP]

On the Isaac support thread, SonicLink125 posted this image; apparently, someone on Twitter (not SonicLink) compiled a Top 10 list for Reddit, 4Chan, GameFAQs, Source Gaming and this very site.

 

[Cosmic77]

It’s just his trophy model but slightly tweaked:

You know, the more low effort leaks I see, the more I appreciate that fake Spring Man/Decidueye leak back in March.

Spoiler

Even if it ended up being fake, you have to admit that it was a nice change of pace to see someone put so much effort into their leak. Reminded me of the very convincing Artsy Omni Rayman leak in early 2015.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

There's a big difference between Daisy and Dixie. Dixie has a signature ability, which is her hair as she can do many moves using it

What's Daisy's special ability? Flowers....and daisies. Since Peach has heart-shaped elements incorporated in her attacks, Daisy's was easy to do with changing the hearts to flowers/daisies

I still think her floating or doing other stuff that's innately Peach's things since SMB2 doesn't really make sense on her, considering how she's not even related on those games, or would go all the way to use Peach's frying pan from SMRPG.

I mean, all power to those who think Daisy's just "Yellow/Orange Peach", but I'm finding it less enjoying how she's implemented due all this because how to many this confirms she's more a carbon copy than anything - which in turn, is trying to spread similar views or claims on other characters even less applicable to be Echoes, such as Dixie.

 

[Chandeelure]

On the Isaac support thread, SonicLink125 posted this image; apparently, someone on Twitter (not SonicLink) compiled a Top 10 list for Reddit, 4Chan, GameFAQs, Source Gaming and this very site.

Bandana Dee in every list.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

On the Isaac support thread, SonicLink125 posted this image; apparently, someone on Twitter (not SonicLink) compiled a Top 10 list for Reddit, 4Chan, GameFAQs, Source Gaming and this very site.

No Elma... oh well, Rex & Pyra is just as good for me

Also, the only site to list Simon is 4chan...interesting

 

[Kamikazek]

O.k. so I was about to write a post about why I like Geno more than Mallow but then I had to think about it and realized I like Mallow way more than Geno.

Mallow is a much more vibrant character with much more of an arc. Geno's basically a walking plot device. Not to say he has no personality, and he's got a few good character bits, but for the most part Geno's role is to develop the story, whereas for Mallow's parts the story serves to develop Mallow. Not helping is that imo almost all classic Square RPGs have pretty boring and unengaging plots but are incredibly good at character based emotional stuff and that really tips the scales for me. Again though I'm just talking about who I like if you're more into story that'll effect who you like, and personality wise they are almost completely direct opposites of each other (probably by design) so if you hate one you'll probably really like the other (though I like both).

And actually maybe that's the best answer to who's more "important". They're both equally important for different reasons; Geno is the focus of the game's central story arc while Mallow is the focus of the central character arc. Two essential and central aspects of most RPGs. Usually these are both relegated to the same character (the protagonist) but for SMRPG they split it into two characters, presumably because the actual protagonist is Mario and they didn't want to upstage Mario by having another character be the clear "main character" but also wanted to work with characters they had more liberties with and who could, like, talk and stuff.

I don't play RPGs efficiently at all so never really noticed Mallow is underpowered and I don't think that really has much to do with the character's merit anyway. Concept wise they're both really strong? Magic puppet with hidden weapons and Living cloud with weather powers are both not entirely unique but still strong and interesting. They also both have really nice and distinct visual designs.

As for Smash...I mean obviously if anyone it'll be Geno if only because he's the one who has a reputation as being a Smash contender though I have no idea why other than Sakurai expressing interest in him way after he was already considered a contender. I love SMRPG but if I didn't hang around Smash sites and you asked me what characters I thought get talked about in Smash bros. discussion there's a 0% chance I'd mention anyone form SMRPG, and as much as I'd like to see them in I've never been able to make a pitch to convince even myself that they should be.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

On the Isaac support thread, SonicLink125 posted this image; apparently, someone on Twitter (not SonicLink) compiled a Top 10 list for Reddit, 4Chan, GameFAQs, Source Gaming and this very site.

Source Gaming has the best taste, hands down (no offense to the people in here).

 

[Cosmic77]

I still think her floating or doing other stuff that's innately Peach's things since SMB2 doesn't really make sense on her, considering how she's not even related on those games, or would go all the way to use Peach's frying pan from SMRPG.

I mean, all power to those who think Daisy's just "Yellow/Orange Peach", but I'm finding it less enjoying how she's implemented due all this because how to many this confirms she's more a carbon copy than anything - which in turn, is trying to spread similar views or claims on other characters even less applicable to be Echoes, such as Dixie.

Well, look at it this way. Even if the moveset isn't a perfect representation of Daisy, at least they did their best to emphasize her bubbly tomboy personality. That by itself helps Daisy establish her own identity.

And who knows. Perhaps there's more to separate Daisy from Peach than we think. There's still quite a few moves we haven't seen yet, including her Final smash. Maybe there's an attack or two that will reference something like Super Mario Land. If not, then all is not lost. So long as she's in Smash, there's always the possibility of Daisy further separating herself from Peach. Heck, maybe she'll even follow in Luigi's footsteps one day and become her own unique character. It's unlikely, yes, but it's still fun to imagine what an Echo Fighter would be like if they weren't a clone.

 

[Deleted member]

Travis is Nintendo exclusive (I think),.

Actually the original No More Heroes was ported to the PS3 and Xbox 360 under the name No More Heroes: Heroes' Paradise.

So no, he's not Nintendo Exclusive.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

So a list of sleeper characters where I think at least one will make it in IMO.

Dillon
Popular one off Zelda Character not disconfirmed
Lloyd Irving
Yuri Lowell
Koei Tecmo character(Ryu or Kasumi)
Popular western character not Crash or Ray Man
Mach Rider
Excite Biker
Reimu Hakurei
Heihachi
Nightmare
Arle Nadja
Pokemon Newcomer that isn't Decidueye, Mimikyu or Lycanroc

This list got me thinking about which Smash 4 newcomer was slept on in speculation.

My first thought would have to be Rosalina. Galaxy was extremely successful and Nintendo seemed to be pushing her as a new member of the Mario cast in the spin-offs.
But most people just focused on Bowser Jr., Toad, and Waluigi to an extent.

You could also say Robin was somewhat slept on. Most people expected Chrom to be the Awakening rep just because he was arguably more of the main character in the game. Robin did have his fair share of supporters though.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Reason Against Dixie Kong as an Echo

- She was going to be a tag-team partner of Diddy.
- Thus, there had to be differences where one would be better in a situation than the other
- A tag-team of Pit and Dark Pit would be a waste

I just know sakurai has a unique dixie moveset lying around somewhere, he can finally make a character that was planned 10 years ago happen lol

 

[Zeox]

https://imgtc.com/i/k5DSo0d.png

This photo was just posted on Gamefaqs with this list of characters:

Newcomers:
King K. Rool
Decidueye
Ashley
Isaac
Ayumi Tachibana
Excitebiker
Travis Touchdown
Heihachi

Echoes:
Dixie Kong
Chrom
Dark Samus
Isabelle


The post in question: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76819589

Thoughts? The render looks kinda fake to me but hey, it's at least a photo leak.

It looks exactly like the 3D model of this Smash 4 Mod: https://gamebanana.com/skins/154754

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Actually the original No More Heroes was ported to the PS3 and Xbox 360 under the name No More Heroes: Heroes' Paradise.

So no, he's not Nintendo Exclusive.

And the port in question bombed (due to the porters failing to replicate the motion controls with Sony's popsicle), so Travis remained on the Ninty side since then.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

On the Isaac support thread, SonicLink125 posted this image; apparently, someone on Twitter (not SonicLink) compiled a Top 10 list for Reddit, 4Chan, GameFAQs, Source Gaming and this very site.

Wow, we have great taste on here

 

[ColietheGoalie]

It looks exactly like the 3D model of this Smash 4 Mod: https://gamebanana.com/skins/154754

My god that's horrifying