Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Nah we want a retro rep because we want to know if Sakurai is going to do a cool rep like Pit or a dumb rep like Duck Hunt Dog again...

Oh no, you see, me and Blue made a bet, we bet 45 USD on if Hanafuda would make it in the base roster or not, it's even my pinned tweet on twitter so I won't forget

Also, my thoughts on vergeben. I refuse to believe he was lucky with TMNT in IJ2 but his track record can't be ignored. However, I don't think his first Smash claims are fake just yet, he said his other info was from a different source I believe but that first batch has yet to be disproven or proven

 

[P.Kat]

This is more like ordering a pepperoni pizza and one of the slices has something else replacing a single one of the pepperonis. It might be better than the pepperonis, or you might not like it but you can still enjoy the rest of the pizza.

Sounds about right you'll never know if you'd like if you don't give it a chance.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Thought I would show this

https://smashboards.com/threads/k-r...e-over-music-intensifies.446401/post-22216311

This user is bringing up a few good points about the leak

>FFVII Remake and Fallout 76

I’m preeeeeeeetty sure that leak was debunked days ago...if it mentioned Smash DLC it’s in the graveyard for sure

That or its killswitch date passed with nothing happening but I’m sure that was deconfirmed

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Nah we want a retro rep because we want to know if Sakurai is going to do a cool rep like Pit or a dumb rep like Duck Hunt Dog again...

Duck Hunt dumb...you silly monster for thinking such a thing

 

[papagenos]

Something interesting to consider that I've brought up in the past over defining retros: as an art form ages the age for "classics" increases. So in 2000 when Nintendo as a gaming industry was 20 years old a game from 15 years ago would be a classic. But now in 2018 when the company is nearing almost 50 years you need to look at the broader history and so 10-20 years ago isn't really that classic for the company.

Basically what was considered a classic in 2000 can't be used to define a classic in 2020. This happens with all media's of art and entertainment. It's all subjective really, but I wouldn't call anything post 2000 a "retro rep". Just some discussion!

extremely well said, i've never heard it explained that way but thats certianly my thoughts on "retro" nintendo, as the company gets older the amount of years back that represent "the early days" widen as well.

My only problem with Heihachi is....

He's just not who I'd want if we got a Tekken rep personally.

Give me Yoshimitsu, then you're repping both Bamco fighters in one blow.

I've always pushed Yoshimitsu as my favorite 2nd namco rep for that exact reason, he can rep tekken AND soul calibur. realistically though if heihachi got in i could see yoshimitsu as an assist trophy.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Guys!? Most likley nothing slips past you, and this is discussed 20 pages ago, even if it came out yesterday, but I can't read 20 pages to find out, but !!!

Were not this part of some leak!? A Jump Super Smash type of game!?!?

 

[RandomAce]

GUYS GUYS.

Remember when everyone laughed at Vergeben for him stating that Base Goku and Base Vegeta were playable in DBFighterZ?

GUESS WHAT?

Another point for Vergeben's credibility. So im only getting more confident in Simon.

Firstly:

NO! GOD PLEASE NO! NO, NO!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Secondly:

These had been leaked by the DBFZ community in a datamine not by Verge, and these were expected but not wanted by a lot of people hoping for it to not be true (A third Goku and Vegeta?). Verge was known for his shady leak history with DBFZ rather than being credible.

Smash and Nintendo are definitely more careful and secure when it comes to Ultimate. Albeit, I think Simon was probably the only thing not revealed that he most likely got right.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Question: When did the dataminers discovered Base Goku and Vegeta?


Because from what i have seen, Vergeben predicted Base Goku and Base Vegeta WAAAAAAY before any of these dataminers even moved a finger.

And just to be sure that he didn't edit that later, i went back and user the Internet Wayback Machine. The only difference is that he called them "regular" instead of "base"

https://web.archive.org/web/2017111...eddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/7c9n8i/leakileaks/

I quote:



You can clearly see in the image i Posted, that Base Goku uses the Spirit Bomb just like Vergeben stated. Oh and he also stated that the game was beign ported to the Switch but you are just gonna downplay that with "MUH LUCKY GUESSES"


Oh and also predicted Resident Evil 2 Remake, in third person:



The rest seems to be innacuarte, but you can't tell these 2 things are just "lucky guesses".

You're acting like the Spirit Bomb is a crazy prediction yet it's one of DBZ's most iconic moves and something Goku never does outside his base form. We already saw enough of DBFZ to know the developers were ridiculously faithful, am I a leaker because I know that the DLC pack will include Kaioken X 4 as a dramatic finish on BGoku vs BVegeta? No, because it's the most blatantly obvious thing to do

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

>FFVII Remake and Fallout 76

I’m preeeeeeeetty sure that leak was debunked days ago...if it mentioned Smash DLC it’s in the graveyard for sure

That or its killswitch date passed with nothing happening but I’m sure that was deconfirmed

We're talking about the July 22nd leak right?

I don't recall smash dlc on that one

 

[RandomAce]

At this point I’m really just expecting Simon, which sucks because if it weren’t for Vergeben I would’ve been surprised and more excited.

Forgive me, but **** that for spoiling what would be an awsome reveal.

I honestly don’t want him insisting and leaking more information, it sucks. No one is going to care about a potential Simon reveal.

 

[?????????????]

Vergeben predicting Ridley was NOT lucky.

Even if lots of leakers and fake leaks included it, it doesn’t change the fact a large portion of people thought it’d be impossible.

But more than that, Vergeben INSISTED on its validity. Normally, a leaker would say “it’s possible,” or “I’m not sure of this source, but...” so they can backpedal if it turns out to be phony.

But he particularly insisted on Ridley.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

We're talking about the July 22nd leak right?

I don't recall smash dlc on that one

Oh that was the July 22nd one? Gosh I lose track of all these leaks easily

To be fair, I really, really doubt we’ll see a direct on Sunday, as to my knowledge that has never been done before. If it does, I’ll be pleasantly surprised, but I’m not banking on it.

 

[Luminario]

Charizard was also a pretty vanilla addition and Ridley still brought something new.

You know damn well that's a terrible analogy and doesn't even answer the question at hand.

I don't like Heihachi, but I looked into his moveset from Tekken. What he could potentially do is have different moves if an attack is input immediately after using a different attack. For example, say ftilt does some punch forwards and up tilt does some uppercut, doing uptilt immediately after ftilt makes Heihachi do a punch then a roundhouse kick instead of an uppercut, just like how different strings of buttons have characters do different attacks in Tekken. Heihachi also has a stance move called Kaijin Stance. This could be down b or down tilt or even forward tilt if they're going for faithful representation, and could then choose a few different moves including Lightning Bolt which could be a shield breaker/shield bypasser.
I have no idea how much of this is similar to Ryu's moveset as I've only ever seen his moves vs him in For Glory, but he's got something, even though I'd take sooo many other Tekken characters instead of him.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Okay dude.

If you're implying Dillon's Rolling Western is bad, we're gonna have a problem because that's some **** tier taste.

I've never played Dillon's Rolling Western. What exactly is it?

I mean, the main character looks cool, and I've seen trailers of the game, but I never really 'got' the premise.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

GUYS GUYS.

Remember when everyone laughed at Vergeben for him stating that Base Goku and Base Vegeta were playable in DBFighterZ?

GUESS WHAT?

Another point for Vergeben's credibility. So im only getting more confident in Simon.

That settles it I'm locking Simon for a prediction forever in smash ultimate roster

And here's the best part a little after the direct vergeben said at miminum 6 more newcomers but he doesn't know who they are

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Here is the full post-E3 Sakurai interview.

 

[osby]

You know damn well that's a terrible analogy and doesn't even answer the question at hand.

I don't like Heihachi, but I looked into his moveset from Tekken. What he could potentially do is have different moves if an attack is input immediately after using a different attack. For example, say ftilt does some punch forwards and up tilt does some uppercut, doing uptilt immediately after ftilt makes Heihachi do a punch then a roundhouse kick instead of an uppercut, just like how different strings of buttons have characters do different attacks in Tekken. Heihachi also has a stance move called Kaijin Stance. This could be down b or down tilt or even forward tilt if they're going for faithful representation, and could then choose a few different moves including Lightning Bolt which could be a shield breaker/shield bypasser.
I have no idea how much of this is similar to Ryu's moveset as I've only ever seen his moves vs him in For Glory, but he's got something, even though I'd take sooo many other Tekken characters instead of him.

It wasn't really an anology, it was more of an example to show you can easily claim a character doesn't bring anything new, if you only look at the surface.

 

[papagenos]

We're talking about the July 22nd leak right?

I don't recall smash dlc on that one

There was no DLC on it.

All it had for smash was: K Rool and Dixie Kong / Smash Run returning / Smash Tour returning

 

[RandomAce]

That settles it I'm locking Simon for a prediction forever in smash ultimate roster

And here's the best part a little after the direct vergeben said at miminum 6 more newcomers but he doesn't know who they are

Didn’t he say it was to be revealed.

We could potentially get more as secret unlockables or possibly more reveals since he said 6 was the minimum, meaning that there is most likely more.

 

[Noipoi]

Wait, assuming the vergeben leak is real..

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR ASHLEY?!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I've never played Dillon's Rolling Western. What exactly is it?

I mean, the main character looks cool, and I've seen trailers of the game, but I never really 'got' the premise.

It's a combination of the tower defense and action game genres.

Basically, you gotta stop the grocks from getting to town, so during the day, you run around, collect resources, set up turrets and prepare for the invasion at night. Then, you run around and deal with any grocks that sneak by your turrets with your claws, rolling, grinding and digging abilities.

In The Last Ranger, Dillon gets an extra ally to control, meaning you have more resources to fight against grocks.

I like it because it can get hectic but unlike a lot of tower defense games, you can patch any holes you see in your defenses and be the hero that prevents everything from falling apart.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Here is the full post-E3 Sakurai interview.

Pretty awesome interview. This really shows a new and direct side to Sakurai, honest and vulnerable.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Off topic, but this is a very interesting interview that I just found about Dillon and it sounds pretty depressing.
https://kotaku.com/the-makers-of-nintendos-latest-hidden-gem-worry-people-1827687012
Honestly, it would be a shame if Dillon went the way of Chibi-Robo just because his game did not sell. It's not even Dillon's fault that his games are not that well known, as not only is the 3DS on the way out, but Nintendo didn't do anything to advertise Dead Heat Brakers.
I fear that WarioWare Gold will follow the same fate.

If it does, it'll at least be a more graceful last hurrah for the Wario brand than Game & Wario.

I would care. Personally, I think retros are one of the best kinds of newcomers. In terms of speculation, it personally excites me on which classic Nintendo game protagonist from the 80s and 90s will Sakurai bring back to attention via playable character. Retro newcomers like Lip, Prince Sable, and Excitebiker all bring a distinct flavor of personality, characterization, and moveset potential that are not present in Ultimate's current cast of characters. Retros have so much to pull from that I find it hard to believe Sakurai will stop the retro 'tradition', in the same way I find it hard to believe that no Pokemon newcomer will be added in this game. Why stop digging the goldmine of unique retro candidates now?

Much agreed. It helps that my biggest expectation there, Star Man, basically already has a moveset. All that would be needed then is a FS.

 

[ThreeT]

That settles it I'm locking Simon for a prediction forever in smash ultimate roster

And here's the best part a little after the direct vergeben said at miminum 6 more newcomers but he doesn't know who they are

I wonder if that means 6 brand new original characters without echos or including?

 

[Deleted member]

Didn’t he say it was to be revealed.

Out of all the characters that he predicted, he only stated that Ridley would be revealed on E3, as far as im concerned.

Here are the 3 sources from Vergeben that said Ridley was playable:
Source 1 = Bandai Namco developing Super Smash Bros. and Metroid Prime 4 (TBC) + Ridley playable in Smash.
Source 2 = Ridley + Simon Belmont + Ice Climbers (return) in Smash, Just Cause 4 (confirmed), and new Jump game that would be a mix of popular japanese shows (confirmed, Jump Force), 2 Castlevania games (TBC), one compilation game (TBC).
Source 3 = Ridley at E3, with a presence not just limited to being shown playable.

Only the 3rd source states that Ridley was revealed at E3 specifically, the others dind't specify.

Even then, you have Sal Romano's leak that stated that Little Mac, Miis, Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Mega Man, Pac Man all at E3 2013, but only half of them were revealed (and Lil' Mac wasn't even announced at a E3) so it wouldn't be the first time that a leaker has the content right, but the dates wrong (it's actually quite common among leaks).

Oh and also regarding this whole "dataminers did it first" thing.

Vergeben's Statement of Base Goku and Vegeta playable: November 13, 2017 (this is the earliest archive Internet Wayback Machine offers regarding his post).

Dragon Ball FighterZ release date: Jaunary 26, 2018 Worldwide and Feb 1 in Japan.

So unless some dataminer got a very, very early copy (as in before November 13 2017,) that included data of Base Goku and Base Vegeta in game, Vergeben actually did it first.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

You're acting like the Spirit Bomb is a crazy prediction yet it's one of DBZ's most iconic moves and something Goku never does outside his base form.

Goku technically (somewhat) used the spirit bomb on Kid Buu as a Super Sayian and as a Kaio-Ken X20 SSB on Jiren to push it back (there’s also Trunks who used his sword that absorbed a spirit bomb to defeat Fused Zamasu)...though I’m not sure if they fully count since they’re only reflecting/giving it more power to hit the target

 

[Deleted member]

And Ridley? Come on. Everyone tries to leak Ridley. It makes the hopeful, blind Ridley fans believe any leak just because they hope that now is the time. The fact that he actually got in this time is not a point for Vergeben's credibility.

Regardless on whether Verge is accurate or not, this made YOU lose any sort of credibility with a counter.

This is complete bull****, to be frank.

 

[Idon]

Goku technically (somewhat) used the spirit bomb on Kid Buu as a Super Sayian and as a Kaio-Ken X20 SSB on Jiren to push it back (there’s also Trunks who used his sword that absorbed a spirit bomb to defeat Fused Zamasu)...though I’m not sure if they fully count since they’re only reflecting/giving it more power to hit the target

Nah he uses the spirit bomb in base form, but he can only power it up in his other forms.

 

[papagenos]

Out of all the characters that he predicted, he only stated that Ridley would be revealed on E3, as far as im concerned.

Here are the 3 sources from Vergeben that said Ridley was playable:
Source 1 = Bandai Namco developing Super Smash Bros. and Metroid Prime 4 (TBC) + Ridley playable in Smash.
Source 2 = Ridley + Simon Belmont + Ice Climbers (return) in Smash, Just Cause 4 (confirmed), and new Jump game that would be a mix of popular japanese shows (confirmed, Jump Force), 2 Castlevania games (TBC), one compilation game (TBC).
Source 3 = Ridley at E3, with a presence not just limited to being shown playable.

Only the 3rd source states that Ridley was revealed at E3 specifically, the others dind't specify.

Even then, you have Sal Romano's leak that stated that Little Mac, Miis, Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Mega Man, Pac Man all at E3 2013, but only half of them were revealed (and Lil' Mac wasn't even announced at a E3) so it wouldn't be the first time that a leaker has the content right, but the dates wrong (it's actually quite common among leaks).

Oh and also regarding this whole "dataminers did it first" thing.

Vergeben's Statement of Base Goku and Vegeta playable: November 13, 2017 (this is the earliest archive Internet Wayback Machine offers regarding his post).

Dragon Ball FighterZ release date: Jaunary 26, 2018 Worldwide and Feb 1 in Japan.

So unless some dataminer got a very, very early copy (as in before November 13 2017,) that included data of Base Goku and Base Vegeta in game, Vergeben actually did it first.

i mean it makes sense why leakers can get dates wrong but content correct, likely dates of reveals can change at a moments notice where as the content itself isn't going to change if the info is real. Its entirely possible say, simon belmont, was at one timed planned for an E3 reveal and they decided to hold back for some reason.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I don't think because someone who has a history of backpedaling and being wrong insisted on something means he's any more valid this time.

The thing that screams majorly fake to me is that he just kept adding to his leak story past Ridley. He got Snake right, sure. But you know what will really seal that deal on his validity? Minecraft content.

Not Ridley. Not Snake.

Those aren't as bold claims as those two.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

To be honest, I’m truly glad that there wasn’t a leak… If word had gotten out that “Everyone is Here,” then we wouldn’t have had this incredible reaction.

The staff and I have been pouring all our energy into this project for many years. We’ve been meticulous and methodical in our preparations. I also feel like we put a lot of effort into the presentation, including the initial promo video. I really didn’t want for this thing we’ve been working on for years to be ruined by someone’s petty sense of self-satisfaction.

To all those trying to leak what's left in the game: shame on you.

 

[?????????????]

I don't think because someone who has a history of backpedaling and being wrong insisted on something means he's any more valid this time.

The thing that screams majorly fake to me is that he just kept adding to his leak story past Ridley. He got Snake right, sure. But you know what will really seal that deal on his validity? Minecraft content.

Not Ridley. Not Snake.

Those aren't as bold claims as those two.

...But he also particularly said the Minecraft one was from a different source he was less certain of.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

i mean it makes sense why leakers can get dates wrong but content correct, likely dates of reveals can change at a moments notice where as the content itself isn't going to change if the info is real. Its entirely possible say, simon belmont, was at one timed planned for an E3 reveal and they decided to hold back for some reason.

Holding back isn't a last minute decision as people here may think, E3 is a HUGE convention and you want to make plan on what you're gonna show, if it's presentable and how to end it off. There's a LOT of planning behind that meaning if Simon was hypothetically planned for E3 that'd have been dropped very early

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Every single character that is revealed is always an obvious character thanks to the power of hindsight. If Cooking Mama was the next reveal, there'd be people who say she was pretty obvious.

Keep in mind that Ridley was so "obvious" that he only got around 17% on the Rate their Chances thread.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

There's also the fact he stood pretty steadfast in saying ''That secret Konami game is Castlevania guys." 'Wait...no it's the sports thing."

Tells me he's just been winging this **** the entire time.

I just refuse to fall for it.

 

[?????????????]

Every single character that is revealed is always an obvious character thanks to the power of hindsight. If Cooking Mama was the next reveal, there'd be people who say she was pretty obvious.

Keep in mind that Ridley was so "obvious" that he only got around 17% on the Rate their Chances thread.

I’ll never forget that there were people who both told me that Little Mac wouldn’t be added because he only punches/is too boring, only to turn around and say he was obvious all along.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

...But he also particularly said the Minecraft one was from a different source he was less certain of.

This as well is another reason I have troubles believing him. He's got like 3 or 4 sources in the pan and has no trouble sharing even the shakey ones.

If he was so sure of ONE source. He'd stick to that one and only that one. It just screams as a guy who is actually probably fed stuff, but isn't someone who is actually in the know.

 

[papagenos]

I don't think because someone who has a history of backpedaling and being wrong insisted on something means he's any more valid this time.

The thing that screams majorly fake to me is that he just kept adding to his leak story past Ridley. He got Snake right, sure. But you know what will really seal that deal on his validity? Minecraft content.

Not Ridley. Not Snake.

Those aren't as bold claims as those two.

but we got a minecraft microsoft/switch add recently... thats adds at least some weight to the possibility of minecraft content in smash and no one would have guessed microsoft and nintendo would ever make such a "buddy buddy" advertisement.

 

[Hinata]

Regardless on whether Verge is accurate or not, this made YOU lose any sort of credibility with a counter.

This is complete bull****, to be frank.

Please. I bet you if you go back on 4chan and look at some Smash Switch leaks from the moment the game was announced in March to E3, you'll find a whole bunch of people "leaking" Ridley. Are all those people as credible as Vergeben now because they just so happened to mention Ridley?

Vergeben got some things right on non-Nintendo games. Cool. But I guarantee you that when it comes to Smash Bros, he has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[papagenos]

sorry accidentally posted the same message twice.