Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

Regardless, if we got no "retro reps", would anyone care? There were a notable amount of people who were disappointed when various characters were disconfirmed as ATs, whether in Smash 4 or Ultimate, but I can't see anywhere near the same level of disappointment happening if we get no "retro reps" for Ultimate.

I just like getting characters SmashBoards couldn't predict.

 

[?????????????]

It's all subjective. No way of knowing at the moment. I'd be fine with his inclusion but I don't think he's obvious at all, but that's more so from the fact that I don't feel any specific character currently is obvious as the reality is that we really don't know how Sakurai is thinking about characters this time around and who he is and isn't considering. But that takes the fun out of speculation itself though so it's not a viewpoint I state too often. Like Inklings were the only "obvious" characters to me for this game, and they were taken cared of right out of the gate when we first learned of this game's existence.

I didn't think of K. Rool as an "obvious" newcomer until Ridley came to light.

This is my thought process; we have Ridley, a character most known for it's Western popularity who has been rejected in the past for clear "he can't work" reasons, vs. K. Rool, a character that is much more internationally wanted and has had no such problems.

 

[osby]

I didn't think of K. Rool as an "obvious" newcomer until Ridley came to light.

This is my thought process; we have Ridley, a character most known for it's Western popularity who has been rejected in the past for clear "he can't work" reasons, vs. K. Rool, a character that is much more internationally wanted and has had no such problems.

Popularity alone isn't a guarantee (like, say, K.Rool is absent from the games for a long time compared to Ridley) but I can also see characters with international popularity getting in over others, now that we have both Inklings and Ridley.

 

[NintenZ]

I don’t know why Heihachi is in so many of these Leak lists. Other than being considered for Smash 4 and Namco working on the game what does he really have going for him compared to other third-party characters that makes him stick out? We already have Ryu anyways.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I just like getting characters SmashBoards couldn't predict.

How come?

 

[Alternis]

Question, do we know who Ashley’s new voice is?

This may be kind of late but it sounds like Erica Lindbeck to me.

 

[?????????????]

I don’t know why Heihachi is in so many of these Leak lists. Other than being considered for Smash 4 and Namco working on the game what does he really have going for him compared to other third-party characters that makes him stick out? We already have Ryu anyways.

I know it's been done before, but I like seeing Ryu vs Heihachi.

ANYWAYS, I think a lot of it comes from the idea of Namco just having a second character, like how Capcom has Ryu and Konami MIGHT have Snake and Simon. Heihachi makes a lot of sense, but there's also Tales characters, Soulcalibur, maybe Klonoa or Dig Dug...

Lots of options. I actually find Heihachi appealing, but I would LOVE to see a Tales character. But Soulcalibur is pretty much my favorite fighting game series besides Smash Bros...

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

If we count the Ice Climbers as retro in Melee, by the same time period, anything that hasn't had a major release after 2002 would be retro.

That includes 1080 and Wave Race.

Something interesting to consider that I've brought up in the past over defining retros: as an art form ages the age for "classics" increases. So in 2000 when Nintendo as a gaming industry was 20 years old a game from 15 years ago would be a classic. But now in 2018 when the company is nearing almost 50 years you need to look at the broader history and so 10-20 years ago isn't really that classic for the company.

Basically what was considered a classic in 2000 can't be used to define a classic in 2020. This happens with all media's of art and entertainment. It's all subjective really, but I wouldn't call anything post 2000 a "retro rep". Just some discussion!

 

[osby]

I think Tekken is pretty big on fighting game scene. Personally I'm not really interesting but: fighting grandpa.

 

[Iridium]

http://www.siliconera.com/2018/07/1...h-bros-but-he-isnt-thinking-about-it-for-now/

Here is an article that highlights some of Masahiro Sakurai's thoughts on SSBU and its reception. Take it how you will.

 

[RandomAce]

How come?

Well, for me personally, I find a lot of the characters thrown around as likley here to be boring.

 

[lltacx]

I'm not really not digging having Heihachi in Smash, but great for the people who want him though. I know my friends would play the hell out of him...

 

[?????????????]

How come?

To me, it's less exciting if I was able to guess every character.

Like, YEAH. I wanted Little Mac in Smash 4, and that's who I play... but I NEVER would have suggested or even thought of Wii Fit Trainer. It keeps me EXCITED for new things!

 

[DJ3DS]

Tekken is the biggest fighting game series in terms of sales. It's above Street Fighter, even if SF is more intimately linked to Nintendo via the SNES than Tekken is. Heihachi is one of the most well known, popular characters from the series.

"But we already have Ryu" - great, who needs Mega Man when we already have Mario as a platformer? Who needs any RPG character when we have Cloud? This is a vacuous argument that betrays an ignorance of either character.

 

[Megadoomer]

I don’t know why Heihachi is in so many of these Leak lists. Other than being considered for Smash 4 and Namco working on the game what does he really have going for him compared to other third-party characters that makes him stick out? We already have Ryu anyways.

We know from Sakurai's comments about the Mii costume was that he was considered for the base game of Smash 4. He wasn't included because Sakurai had trouble picturing how his moveset would work, but that can change between games (such as with Pac-Man, Villager, and Ridley).

As well, it would be tough for a Namco-Bandai character to take priority over Pac-Man, and there's precedent for third party companies getting more than one character with Ryu and Bayonetta.

Also, it helps in that he's rather unique in terms of being a villain who's the face of his franchise, being one of four characters with perfect attendance in Tekken. The only other example that comes to mind for a villain being arguably the face of a video game franchise would be Dracula from Castlevania.

 

[Pyra]

This talk about Geno has got me thinking- We all know who are the most talked about but I wonder who everyone is the most certain about.

 

[MBRedboy31]

How come?

We’ve mostly been talking about the same group of characters for quite a while, it’d make us talk about something new and different. Getting an expected character, after all, does nothing but merely check a checkbox off of our collective expected list and make us no longer able to speculate about them as they’re already in, which decreases the topics we can talk about even more (especially since it’d likely make people start to rule out other characters from the same franchise, decreasing the number of topics even further.)

 

[osby]

How come?

I tend to dislike a lot of popular picks here. Also a lot of my faves tend to disliked here. You can say I like characters people said "they shouldn't be in!" about.

EDIT: Pettiness aside, I like there is no list of "essential newcomers", it's boring. After Inklings, everyone is fair game.

 

[?????????????]

The only other example that comes to mind for a villain being arguably the face of a video game franchise would be Dracula from Castlevania.

I might argue Nightmare and Scorpion.

 

[Pyra]

How come?

I'm honestly the same way, mostly because it is usually hilarious and makes me feel justified in believing that holding onto the arbitrary rules people like to use doesn't really do much of anything except for railroad discussion ad infinitum.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Tekken is the biggest fighting game series in terms of sales. It's above Street Fighter, even if SF is more intimately linked to Nintendo via the SNES than Tekken is. Heihachi is one of the most well known, popular characters from the series.

"But we already have Ryu" - great, who needs Mega Man when we already have Mario as a platformer? Who needs any RPG character when we have Cloud? This is a vacuous argument that betrays an ignorance of either character.

Genuine question then: What can he do that's different than Ryu?
Ryu is already a pretty vanilla addition, so I'm not sure what Heihachi would bring that's any more interesting

 

[?????????????]

This talk about Geno has got me thinking- We all know who are the most talked about but I wonder who everyone is the most certain about.

I already just said this, but I am VERY confident in King K. Rool.

 

[SlickWylde]

Since transformation Final Smashes are gone, you know what I'd really like to get back from Brawl?

Spoiler

Seriously, I don't think there's ever been a Final Smash more fun to use than this one. Since Ness and Lucas are getting back their old Final Smash, I hope this one will be brought back as well.

Can you explain the picture? Been a few years since I played Brawl and the low res pic is...lacking. With my old man eyes I literally can't even tell who this is :'(

 

[osby]

Genuine question then: What can he do that's different than Ryu?
Ryu is already a pretty vanilla addition, so I'm not sure what Heihachi would bring that's any more interesting

Charizard was also a pretty vanilla addition and Ridley still brought something new.

 

[?????????????]

Genuine question then: What can he do that's different than Ryu?

...You mean BESIDES being a completely separate character from a separate fighting games series with his own moveset based on a different martial arts style?

Well, he generates electricity with his attacks.

 

[Megadoomer]

Can you explain the picture? Been a few years since I played Brawl and the low res pic is...lacking. With my old man eyes I literally can't even tell who this is :'(

Lucario's final smash in Brawl, where he leaps into the air and fires a giant beam that can be steered. It was replaced with Mega Evolution in Smash 4; in the picture, he looks to be upside down, but you can see his ears and tail.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Genuine question then: What can he do that's different than Ryu?
Ryu is already a pretty vanilla addition, so I'm not sure what Heihachi would bring that's any more interesting

Honestly? I’ve been wondering this too. It would be especially dissonant if he were an echo of Ryu, like the new Namco Bandai character would be an echo of an original Capcom fighter in Smash? Doesn’t seem right to me.

Also, I decided to do a random Hunger Games Simulator out of boredom with some of the roster and like 5 newcomers I wouldn’t mind seeing (Rex and Pyra count as one newcomer even though they were individuals in the sim) and:

Spoiler: images

Simon confirmed

RIP Elma tho...and everybody else of course

Also, Dixie has no chill

I included some specialized events involving Giga Bowser and Ridley but they didn’t trigger this run

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Something interesting to consider that I've brought up in the past over defining retros: as an art form ages the age for "classics" increases. So in 2000 when Nintendo as a gaming industry was 20 years old a game from 15 years ago would be a classic. But now in 2018 when the company is nearing almost 50 years you need to look at the broader history and so 10-20 years ago isn't really that classic for the company.

Basically what was considered a classic in 2000 can't be used to define a classic in 2020. This happens with all media's of art and entertainment. It's all subjective really, but I wouldn't call anything post 2000 a "retro rep". Just some discussion!

Yeah, I think in this world of today we'd only count games on Arcade, Game and watch, NES, GB, SNES, GBC and N64 as retro.

 

[RandomAce]

This talk about Geno has got me thinking- We all know who are the most talked about but I wonder who everyone is the most certain about.

I’m very certain that King K. Rool and Elma are in. Those are the two characters I would bet my money on (and I want Elma in).

Really my newcomer prediction are:

Recent Games:
Elma
Lycanroc
Tibby
Chibi Robo

Ballot Picks:
King K. Rool
Issac
Geno

3rd Party:
Simon

Retro:
Ayumi

The problem with the ballot characters and even third party choice is that they are all characters only older fans would know and not account the newer more younger fans who would probably vote for someone else. So it’s possible that someone else might get in instead.

 

[osby]

Lucario's final smash in Brawl, where he leaps into the air and fires a giant beam that can be steered. It was replaced with Mega Evolution in Smash 4; in the picture, he looks to be upside down, but you can see his ears and tail.

Actually, Samus' s new Final Smash really looks like Lucario's old one.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

...You mean BESIDES being a completely separate character from a separate fighting games series with his own moveset based on a different martial arts style?

Well, he generates electricity with his attacks.

Thank you for your time

Charizard was also a pretty vanilla addition and Ridley still brought something new.

Charizard ≠ Vanilla
Fire dragon > Dude in a judogi

It's basic math

 

[Megadoomer]

I might argue Nightmare and Scorpion.

True, I forgot about Nightmare. I stopped trying to keep track of Mortal Kombat's timeline a while ago, but I could have sworn that Scorpion stopped being a villain; at the very least, he's nowhere near as big of a threat as Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn, etc.

 

[?????????????]

Honestly? I’ve been wondering this too. It would be especially dissonant if he were an echo of Ryu, like the new Namco Bandai character would be an echo of an original Capcom fighter in Smash?

Wh-

WHAAAAAAAT!?

Why on EARTH would Heihachi be an echo of Ryu? They're from two different games and have completely different fighting styles!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Something I noticed as I was randomly searching through articles/interviews with Sakurai. I mentioned some time ago that I felt we wouldn't be getting another Smash for a reasonable amount of time after this one is finished. Well, guess what?

The last line of this interview or this interaction with Sakurai (whatever you'd call it I guess), he himself seems to think he's taking an actual break after this one.

I respect this. I myself wouldn't be surprised if this was our Smash game for close to the next 5-10 years to be completely honest. 5 years may even be too short of a time, considering when previous Smash games have come out.

Hopefully this means good things for us in terms of content though. I've considered the potential for this game to have already shown the base roster. I myself wouldn't be butt blasted over it but...I can't say the same for the rest of the fanbase.

 

[Pyra]

You know who else was in Tekken that could potentially be in Smash Ultimate?

Noctis

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Genuine question then: What can he do that's different than Ryu?
Ryu is already a pretty vanilla addition, so I'm not sure what Heihachi would bring that's any more interesting

He can and has summoned a bear bodyguard (Kuma) and has strapped people to rockets.

Heihachi could be a character that emphasizes a war dance kind of style where most attacks send him forward a little bit. Or, due to Tekken's 3D fighting aspect, he could be given a new mechanic where he can attack out of a roll.

You can do a lot with him.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Wh-

WHAAAAAAAT!?

Why on EARTH would Heihachi be an echo of Ryu? They're from two different games and have completely different fighting styles!

I’ve just seen Heihachi listed as a Ryu echo in some “leaks” that’s why.

Not that I agree with the idea of course (quite the opposite in fact)

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I already just said this, but I am VERY confident in King K. Rool.

On the contrary I am way more certain about Dixie Kong and she's my most expected newcomer.

But yea, next to Pokemon, the DK series is the series I most expect to get a Newcomer. (Kirby is third for those wondering)

 

[Pyra]

He can and has summon a bear bodyguard (Kuma) and has strapped people to rockets.

I'm mad that you single-handedly made me want to play as Heihachi in Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

He can and has summon a bear bodyguard (Kuma) and has strapped people to rockets.

Heihachi could be a character that emphasizes a war dance kind of style where most attacks send him forward a little bit. Or, due to Tekken's 3D fighting aspect, he could be given a new mechanic where he can attack out of a roll.

You can do a lot with him.

Welp I’m sold