Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ColietheGoalie]

You know you don't have to play as the characters you dislike, right? It's inevitable to have a roster of 60+ characters of which there are a few a person doesn't like.

Everyone says this, but:

1. You still have to play against these characters, both online and in single player modes
2. To unlock/complete things you're forced to play as them

THAT BEING SAID... there are so many great characters already in the game that there's really no one who could be added that could make me consider not buying Ultimate. Even if all of the unrevealed fighters are characters I can't stand, I'll still be lined up for the game on day 1.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

That's actually a good point! After Melee most retro pics were popualr characters (retro pics, not the historical pics like ROB and Duck Hunt).

Could you clarify "by that logic". Where the smash community draws the line for retro pick is always interesting to me.

I'd argue that as a series Punchout and Excite Bike getting revivals are still retro, where as the DK series is still relevant. However is Geno considered part of the Mario Series or specifically the Super Mario RPG series which died in the 90s? (Paper Mario and The Mario and Luigi Series are more descendants inspired by that game).

I'm not saying you're wrong I just wanna know what you mean "by that logic". I personally don't think of K. Rool as a retro pick but I also wouldn't have thought of Little Mac as one and Sakurai did so eh.

"By that logic", I meant that they are both characters without a major recent appearances that comes from currently active franchises. Also, they debuted from the 90's.

 

[osby]

That's actually a good point! After Melee most retro pics were popualr characters (retro pics, not the historical pics like ROB and Duck Hunt).

Could you clarify "by that logic". Where the smash community draws the line for retro pick is always interesting to me.

I'd argue that as a series Punchout and Excite Bike getting revivals are still retro, where as the DK series is still relevant. However is Geno considered part of the Mario Series or specifically the Super Mario RPG series which died in the 90s? (Paper Mario and The Mario and Luigi Series are more descendants inspired by that game).

I'm not saying you're wrong I just wanna know what you mean "by that logic". I personally don't think of K. Rool as a retro pick but I also wouldn't have thought of Little Mac as one and Sakurai did so eh.

I think the main difference is, retro characters are protagonists of old franchises.

Skull Kid or K.Rool probably wouldn't be retros because their franchise left them behind, but the games in question are still going. They are irrelevant, rather than retro, I think.

Geno might go both ways, depending on how related Sakurai considers his game to the current Mario.

 

[papagenos]

Personally I feel like Geno's inclusion would be extra appealing because the character has laid dormant for so many years, there's just something cool about the idea of a character being revived after so long purely because of fan demand. Of course newer generations would not recognize him, but with how Smash 4 divided characters into only two different categories, retro or relevant, I think it'd be cool to get someone who's neither, it's something that also adds a lot of appeal to other potential inclusions like K. Rool, Isaac and Banjo imo.

Of course you can always argue about the importance of the character, and I fully understand if people would prefer other Mario or Square Enix characters to him, but from a personal point of view I think him breaking the frustrating rules that Smash 4 laid down would be a huge plus and can only be healthy both for the game and the speculation community. Sometimes all a character should need is potential to be super cool, having their inclusion be blocked because they're not marketable and can't sell other current titles is just a bummer.

Its one of the best things about smash imo, characters getting acknowledged for their importance in Nintendo history immortalized forever in smash (a series that doesn't die and has lasting popularity).

Also in some interview sakurai mentioned something to the extent of struggling a bit to get these characters, which could of meant just getting all the veterans back or the obvious character with an "issue", snake, but it could have also been referring to convincing Nintendo the right move would be adding fan favorite type characters (krool/geno/isaac/banjo etc...) rather than characters that could promote current games (captain toad/funky kong etc...).

we'll just have to wait and see what we get in the end.

 

[Deleted member]

One major flaw though - Ashley needs her equivalent of Madoka to even fit close enough to Homura in general.

Also I can't imagine Ashley in a Moemura-esque phase before becoming the kind of girl she is today.

Then again, I more saw Mandy from Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy on Ashley if anything.

Yeah, that's a pretty big issue sense Ashley has no friends. Neither does Homura, really.

 

[Cosmic77]

If K. Rool had only made one or two minor appearances after DKC3 and DK64, you might be able to make a case for K. Rool being retro, but that's not the case. He's an old character who made appearances in Gameboy Advance, GameCube, DS, and Wii games and had an overall decent life in the early to mid 2000s. That's not exactly comparable to a generic motorbike character who stayed dormant for years and years, had a relatively small new game, and then went back into a long hiatus once again.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Its one of the best things about smash imo, characters getting acknowledged for their importance in Nintendo history immortalized forever in smash (a series that doesn't die and has lasting popularity).

Also in some interview sakurai mentioned something to the extent of struggling a bit to get these characters, which could of meant just getting all the veterans back or the obvious character with an "issue", snake, but it could have also been referring to convincing Nintendo the right move would be adding fan favorite type characters (krool/geno/isaac/banjo etc...) rather than characters that could promote current games (captain toad/funky kong etc...).

we'll just have to wait and see what we get in the end.

When it comes to non-Pokemon Nintendo characters, Sakurai alone has the final say, so there is no way Sakurai's statement was referring to anything else but the third-party characters. If Nintendo's agenda actually dictated Smash rosters, a good portion of the characters wouldn't have made it in. Also, an ARMS character would have been an absolute shoo-in for the base roster considering just how heavily promoted the game is.

 

[osby]

Its one of the best things about smash imo, characters getting acknowledged for their importance in Nintendo history immortalized forever in smash (a series that doesn't die and has lasting popularity).

Also in some interview sakurai mentioned something to the extent of struggling a bit to get these characters, which could of meant just getting all the veterans back or the obvious character with an "issue", snake, but it could have also been referring to convincing Nintendo the right move would be adding fan favorite type characters (krool/geno/isaac/banjo etc...) rather than characters that could promote current games (captain toad/funky kong etc...).

we'll just have to wait and see what we get in the end.

Bar Corrin, all 'promotional' characters selected and added by Sakurai. I don't think not being able to promote anything will be a reason for Nintendo to reject a fighter, unless they are Pokémon.
Also Sakurai doesn't work in Nintendo so he doesn't take any direct orders.

 

[92MilesPrower]

*BZZZT*

Sonic: Hey Amy, get a load of this guy, his hammer is HUGE!

Amy: Who cares about the size, it's all about how you use it, and especially how hard you can hit with it! And besides, that hammer is made of wood, so it'll break far sooner than my trusty PikoPiko Hammer.

Tails: Well, according to my research, King Dedede either has had the same hammer for quite a while, or he has a huge collection of back-ups. He is supposed to be a king, after all, so it wouldn't be surprising if he ordered someone to make a lot of hammers for him.

Sonic: Some king he is, if he's as large as Egghead, he likely eats way more than he passes laws or whatever.

Tails: For all we know, he could probably have a thick layer of feathers that keeps him warm... but it seems that he's apparently stolen all of the food in his kingdom multiple times. I guess he IS fat!

Amy: Stealing food from EVERYONE? That's HORRIBLE! KICK HIS BUTT, SONIC!

Sonic: Way ahead of you, Amy!


Happy Sonic Mania Plus Day, everyone. That's a sneak peek of what I'll be doing after all of the Snake Codecs. Now for tomorrow's preview:

Otacon: I still don't understand how he's able to float with all of that weight...

Next up:

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If K. Rool had only made one or two minor appearances after DKC3 and DK64

But that's pretty much what happened. His last major appearance washing DK64 with every appearance since then being minor appearances in a bunch of spin-off games, not counting the DKC remakes.

Besides, I'm not even making the case that he is necessarily a "retro rep" as much as he's as much as one as Geno.

Also, the Excitebiker's N64 game is a main title and anything but minor for his franchise.

 

[osby]

*BZZZT*

Sonic: Hey Amy, get a load of this guy, his hammer is HUGE!

Amy: Who cares about the size, it's all about how you use it, and especially how hard you can hit with it! And besides, that hammer is made of wood, so it'll break far sooner than my trusty PikoPiko Hammer.

Tails: Well, according to my research, King Dedede either has had the same hammer for quite a while, or he has a huge collection of back-ups. He is supposed to be a king, after all, so it wouldn't be surprising if he ordered someone to make a lot of hammers for him.

Sonic: Some king he is, if he's as large as Egghead, he likely eats way more than he passes laws or whatever.

Tails: For all we know, he could probably have a thick layer of feathers that keeps him warm... but it seems that he's apparently stolen all of the food in his kingdom multiple times. I guess he IS fat!

Amy: Stealing food from EVERYONE? That's HORRIBLE! KICK HIS BUTT, SONIC!

Sonic: Way ahead of you, Amy!


Happy Sonic Mania Plus Day, everyone. That's a sneak peak of what I'll be doing after all of the Snake Codecs. Now for tomorrow's preview:

Otacon: I still don't understand how he's able to float with all of that weight...

Next up:

I never saw that coming.

 

[SquashiniKun]

Here is what i think the final roster will look like, i know that some of the choices are idealized af but i tried my best to make it as realistic as possible.

Newcomers:
Inkling
Ridley
Simon (Konami Rep)
Heihachi (Namco Rep)
K Rool (or Dixie Kong)
Lycanroc (or any other Gen 7 Pokemon)
Elma
Erdrick (Square Enix Rep)
Marx (or Bandana Dee)
Chorus Kids
Ayumi (Retro)
Hanafuda Captain (Historical)
Shantae (1st Indie Rep)
Rayman (1st Ubisoft Rep)
Daisy (Echo Of Peach)
Chrom (Echo Of Ike)
Isabelle (Echo Of Villager)

 

[Pyra]

Is it bad that everytime I hear talk about Ivy I instantly assume you all are talking about ?

That Ivy is wearing even less than the other one, somehow.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If we count the Ice Climbers as retro in Melee, by the same time period, anything that hasn't had a major release after 2002 would be retro.

That includes 1080 and Wave Race.

 

[MysticKnives]

Opposed leak from reddit user "Verdeckt":

To start off I used to work at Sora until I got terminated back in late 2017 for circumstances I can’t discuss. I’ve decided to share some info regarding the new title with my sources being myself and others I’ve worked with whose names are staying withheld. To start off NO one knows who is actually in the game in the company until given notice. I’ve been lucky enough to have sources from actual people working on the characters and sources to support this. In decision to share this is because there is 5 months are left and why not. I’ve seen so many leaks going around and it’s hard for anybody to take anything seriously so sharing this and whether or not you believe it is all up to you. What I have to offer is insight on Newcomers, Stages, and Modes and will be posting one category at a time.

NEWCOMERS:

*Inkling, Daisy, and Ridley were already revealed at E3. As for newcomers there will be only 7 more to appear. (10 total)

CHORUS KIDS Will be playable and finally realized as a character after being scrapped in Smash WiiU/3DS. Their mechanic as a character was similar to the Ice Climbers and were decided to be implemented in the next title. They are a trio character and their movement relies on the rhythm in which the player presses the button on the controller in sync with the characters movement and attacks. The better you are in rhythm with the character determines the amount of damage you deal in attacks. Their Final Smash has their conductor come down and direct the choir playing a short verse of "Dreams if Our Generation" (from Rhythm Heaven Fever Wii) ending with a reckless scream as they do in the DS title of Rhythm Heaven.

HEIHACHI The grand master of martial arts appears in Smash. Heihachi from the Tekken series is added to the fray and was part of the top realizable characters from the ballot. He was considered early on in development working with Bandai Namco and such. His moveset is difficult almost like Ryus where the direction of his attacks revolves around the players direction of the control stick. What differentiates the two is his moves from Axe Kicks to Cresent Kicks along with short and long jabs. He will have both his young alt. from Tekken 3 and old alt. from Tekken 7. His final smash will have him glow in electricity and perform a devistating combo causing your opponent to explode on spot.

*CHARCTER FROM XENOBLADE SERIES: The legendary Aegis driver Rex is the pick here and for a short time competed with Elma and Cross. With Xenoblade X and Xenoblade 2 in development during the same time it came down to who seemed the most intriguing in what they had to offer. Cross was quickly scrapped as an idea due to the games avatar not really bringing nothing unique to the table though he will appear as a trophy. Next was Elma was close due to her potential in utilizing the mechs, but in the end took the place as an assist trophy in favor of Rex being able to represent the new Xenoblade 2, a direct sequel that would be released on the Switch. His moveset uses his arts similar to Shulk but his aegis sword switches between Pyra and Mythra. His movement and attacks are based off his game from Anchor Shot and Double Spinning Edge etc. Dromarch and Tora will be featured in his Final Smash and perform in similar manner to Shulks Final Smash Chain Attack.

SIMON BELMONT Was a popular vote in the smash ballot (out of realizable characters he was consideted top 20). One of the last of big icons in gaming, Simon will utilize his whip as his neutral attack similar to Mega Man using his Mega Buster as his neutral attacks. He will use his classic design from the original Castlevania as well as his look from Super Castlevania IV. His Final smash will feature him using his Cross to stun all the opponents in his field of vision and then proceeds to hit his opponents with a devastating whip lash. Gray Fox from the Metal Gear series will also reappear as an assist trophy.

*POKÉMON FROM SUN/MOON Decidueye was picked to represent the new generation where he features a moves from the game like Leaf Blade, Spirit Shackle and his Final Smash being his Z Move Sinister Arrow. He was chosen out the game Pokemon Sun and Moon titles through his design and his Sakurais faith in the characters moveset potential. Other ideas were Alola Raichu (who’s now a Pokéball item), Incineroar (Was quickly dismissed after consideration), Mimikyu (to what believe was going to have few assets from Pikachu but NOT aimed to be an echo fighter), and Lycanroc (Where the idea was for his Final Smash have him transform into his Night form and use his version of Lycanium Z).

*ARMS CHARACTER: Was one of the debatable characters on whether he should even be included in Smash due to him being a newly fresh IP. But the character Springman made it through the process as the character seemed he had a lot to offer from ranged attacks and a unique design that if wasn’t included in this iteration of smash, may never be able to be realized. His move-set revolves around his different sets of abilities from Toaster, Boomerang, and Tri-bolt. His Final smash will be a barrage of fists thrown at his opponents similar to DK and Giga Mac, though Springman’s range to trigger his Final smash has more range.

RAYMAN The last character here, amd was popular in the Ballot from Western audiences, he's finally chosen to be playable. With Nintendo and Ubisofts recent relationship and cooperation it helped make the process easier. His move set will heavily resemble Rayman Legends as well reference some of his games from the past. His color swaps will include Rayblox, Raymesis etc. In his Final smash Rayman will rise the Mosquito and gives the player the ablility to shoot at their opponents from the background. Globox, Barbara, and the Teensies will appear as trophies. The Rabbids will appear as Assist trophy.

(Source tells me previous DLC Mii Costumes from Waves 1 through 6 will return along with new unique ones that are unlockable in game with some based off popular votes from the ballot).

STAGES:

Returning Stages: Peach's Castle (64), Delfino Plaza, Mario Bros., Rainbow Road, Paper Mario, Kongo Jungle (64), Jungle Hijinxs, Pirate Ship, Brinstar Depths, Pyroshpere, Yoshis Island (Melee), Wooly World, Fountain of Dreams, Orbital Gate Assault, Mute City (Melee), Gamer

New Stages: Aquarosa (Starfox Zero), City Trial (Kirby Air Ride), Hoshido (Fire Emblem Fates), Rhythm Heaven (Rhythm Heaven Series), Mishima Dojo (Tekken Series), Mor Adain (Xenoblade Chronicles 2), Dracula’s Castle (Castlevania Series), Melemele Island (Pokémon Sun/Moon), Spring Stadium (ARMS), Glade of Dreams (Rayman Legends)

*Stages will be categorized by Normal stages which surprisingly will fit all 110 stages on screen, and Custom stages where “Stage Builder” will Return and have have both elements from Smash Bros. Brawl and Wii U in order to allow players to create both structured stages and creative stages to their liking.

MODES:

Classic Mode: (Based on the 3DS Version but revamped, Race to Finish, Trophy Rush, and Target Smash will be featured in this mode.)

Adventure Mode: (Returns from Melee but due to the huge roster the mode will only feature areas and stages from the original Smash 64 roster Ex: Mushroom Kingdom, DK Jungle, Hyrule Temple etc. As you continue to unlock characters more variety will be added to your adventure mode experience Ex: Unlocking characters like Meta Knight, Falco and Greninja will add them within the mode to be fought within their respective franchise.)

All-Star Mode: (Unlike Smash for WiiU/3DS this Mode must be unlocked once again just like Smash Bros. Melee/Brawl. Stages will still go by year of relevance as well.)

Event Match: (Will function just as in Smash WiiU and this time around it will help streamline the idea of unlocking other characters like in the past. Setting the difficulty is still there so you can manage your event match experience.)

Target Smash: (Functions just like it did in Smash Bros. Brawl bringing Levels back and featuring multiplayer as well.)

Target Blast: (Returning from Smash Bros. WiiU/3DS)

Home Run Contest: (The mode has a different background but as far as that it functions the same)

Multi-Man Smash: (The Miis are still the Enemies and fictions the same as in the other installments)

Smash Run: (The whole area from the 3DS Version Returns as well as a few new areas as well. This mode being in the Switch will allow you to play both Local and Online Multiplayer. (Enemies from a hidden character’s franchise will not appear until unlocked within the game.)

Smash Tour: (Revamped and better than the previous installment stay tuned)

Tournament Mode: (Now available both Local and Online)

Smash Royale: (The new mode that features the player from choosing a number of different characters to a max of 5 and battling it out. The stock icons of each Fighter you have chosen will be featured under your damage percentage and will be up to only 4 players. (Will also be an online mode)

Regardless if the leak is true or not, I could see some of this stuff actually happen for Ultimate independent of the leak itself.

 

[GaroMaster]

Off topic, but this is a very interesting interview that I just found about Dillon and it sounds pretty depressing.
https://kotaku.com/the-makers-of-nintendos-latest-hidden-gem-worry-people-1827687012
Honestly, it would be a shame if Dillon went the way of Chibi-Robo just because his game did not sell. It's not even Dillon's fault that his games are not that well known, as not only is the 3DS on the way out, but Nintendo didn't do anything to advertise Dead Heat Brakers.
I fear that WarioWare Gold will follow the same fate.

 

[osby]

View attachment 153590
Here is what i think the final roster will look like, i know that some of the choices are idealized af but i tried my best to make it as realistic as possible.

Newcomers:
Inkling
Ridley
Simon
Heihachi
K Rool
Lycanroc (or any other Gen 7 Pokemon)
Elma
Erdrick
Marx
Chorus Kids
Ayumi
Hanafuda Captain
Shantae
Rayman
Daisy (Echo Of Peach)
Chrom (Echo Of Ike)
Isabelle (Echo Of Villager)

Don't take it wrong way but I think this has a few too many characters to be realistic.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If we count the Ice Climbers as retro in Melee, by the same time period, anything that hasn't had a major release after 2002 would be retro.

That includes 1080 and Wave Race.

To be honest, I doubt we're even getting a "retro rep" newcomer for the sake of having one in Ultimate.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Here's something I just thought of regarding the Bandanna Waddle Dee amiibo leak:

Has anyone considered just asking MM if he still backs what he said on the leak? Since Daisy is no longer at play here, I'm sure he can give an unbiased opinion on what he said being true or not.

 

[osby]

To be honest, I doubt we're even getting a "retro rep" newcomer for the sake of having one in Ultimate.

They are fun, unique additions to the roster and even Melee had them, over characters like Wario and (almost) Ganondorf. I can easily see one joining the fray this time, too.

 

[NintenZ]

Question, do we know who Ashley’s new voice is?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

They are fun, unique additions to the roster and even Melee had them, over characters like Wario and (almost) Ganondorf. I can easily see one joining the fray this time, too.

Melee also was the same game where a character replacement was planned. How the Melee roster was chosen 19 years ago isn't necessarily reflective of Ultimate's roster philosophy.

 

[Cosmic77]

Since transformation Final Smashes are gone, you know what I'd really like to get back from Brawl?

Spoiler

Seriously, I don't think there's ever been a Final Smash more fun to use than this one. Since Ness and Lucas are getting back their old Final Smash, I hope this one will be brought back as well.

 

[MysticKnives]

The mii costume honestly just seemed like a way to throw the fans a bone with minimal effort but I'd honestly be very surprised if they ended up making him a full on character. He has moderate popularity but that's dwindled more and more as time goes on, I don't think he would've done all that well in the ballot tbh, sakurai has acknowledged his popularity before but that was brawl days popularity and not recent results via the ballot. As it stands there's not much reason to add geno when more relevant mario character options exist with captain toad and paper mario.

I think Geno could still be playable, but it's really the mii costume and that interview that came out around 2016 (sometime after Sakurai started development on Ultimate). I don't think he'd talk about a character he also likes the way he did with Geno in the interview if he was in the game. At the same time, that could have just been meant for Smash 4 if am mistaken, leaving Ultimate fair game for Geno.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Since transformation Final Smashes are gone, you know what I'd really like to get back from Brawl?

Spoiler

Seriously, I don't think there's ever been a Final Smash more fun to use than this one. Since Ness and Lucas are getting back their old Final Smash, I hope this one will be brought back as well.

I would also like to see Lucario's Kamehameha Wave come back.

 

[MysticKnives]

Here's something I just thought of regarding the Bandanna Waddle Dee amiibo leak:

Has anyone considered just asking MM if he still backs what he said on the leak? Since Daisy is no longer at play here, I'm sure he can give an unbiased opinion on what he said being true or not.

He hangs around ResetEra's Smash thread a lot. You possibly could get a straight answer, but many on there seem to think he has a "I've got mine, **** everybody else" approach to it. He doesn't believe there will be anymore newcomers either.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Off topic, but this is a very interesting interview that I just found about Dillon and it sounds pretty depressing.
https://kotaku.com/the-makers-of-nintendos-latest-hidden-gem-worry-people-1827687012
Honestly, it would be a shame if Dillon went the way of Chibi-Robo just because his game did not sell. It's not even Dillon's fault that his games are not that well known, as not only is the 3DS on the way out, but Nintendo didn't do anything to advertise Dead Heat Brakers.
I fear that WarioWare Gold will follow the same fate.

This is why I think Dillon really should be in Smash Bros, it might be one of the only things that can save him from going the way of Chibi-Robo or the Wonderful 101. It would sorta be a Fire Emblem situation where appearing in Smash would be the catalyst to popularizing the franchise.

 

[Pyra]

He doesn't believe there will be anymore newcomers either.

I wouldn't be shocked if that were the case.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

To be honest, I feel like people are more so expecting a "retro rep" because it's a trend rather than actually wanting one.

 

[NintenZ]

He hangs around ResetEra's Smash thread a lot. You possibly could get a straight answer, but many on there seem to think he has a "I've got mine, **** everybody else" approach to it. He doesn't believe there will be anymore newcomers either.

Yeah i’m not sure if he’ll give an unbiased answer, but who knows l, maybe he will?

 

[Roberk]

Since transformation Final Smashes are gone, you know what I'd really like to get back from Brawl?

Spoiler

Seriously, I don't think there's ever been a Final Smash more fun to use than this one. Since Ness and Lucas are getting back their old Final Smash, I hope this one will be brought back as well.

I think it'd be cool for Lucario to Mega Evolve to do his Brawl Final Smash just for aesthetic. It's a nice compromise between the FS's and that way we don't lose his Mega Evolution. Then again, TPC seems to be abandoning Mega Evolutions, so we might not see it at all.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

To be honest, I doubt we're even getting a "retro rep" newcomer for the sake of having one in Ultimate.

Honestly I think the bigger issues is that there just aren't an infinite amount of retro characters to pick from that have released worldwide, are relatively iconic and would actually work as a smash character. Excite biker and mach rider are pretty much the only ones I can think of.

 

[papagenos]

Bar Corrin, all 'promotional' characters selected and added by Sakurai. I don't think not being able to promote anything will be a reason for Nintendo to reject a fighter, unless they are Pokémon.
Also Sakurai doesn't work in Nintendo so he doesn't take any direct orders.

I might have worded that a little to harshly, from the business perspective of corporate Nintendo there is probably a side to them that although they arent completely pushing promotional characters to drive sales directly they would probably prefer characters with a future or who plan to be featured in "current" games so that it drives the overall Nintendo brand.

obviously Corrin seemed to be very much so put in smash to push another games sales but I think theres still something to be said about characters like toad or Ashley who will certainly be featured in future games, have merchandise, create nintendo brand recognition as opposed to say isaac/geno/k rool etc... whos future and appeal is uncertain to the overall nintendo brand.

smash could of course revive those types of characters and i think nintendo is foolish to ignore the large fan base for these characters by not doing so but it certainly happens. theres definitely people in Nintendo concerned with their branding and character appeal and they somewhat decide which characters will say get t-shirts, toys, plushies etc... who gets put on Nintendo promotional marketing posters and stuff and which characters will be abandoned. Nintendo is a business at the end of the day. so to get k rool/geno/isaac in smash, although im sure sakurai has the final say, he probably does have to make the case to some extent that its a good idea to highlight these forgotten fan favorites rather than to once again continue to push currently established nintendo icons. im sure we'll get a mixture of both but smash, especially this post smash ballot game, has the unique ability to take ANY forgotten nintendo character and potentially throw them back into the spot light.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

He hangs around ResetEra's Smash thread a lot. You possibly could get a straight answer, but many on there seem to think he has a "I've got mine, **** everybody else" approach to it. He doesn't believe there will be anymore newcomers either.

Dang, I was hoping that wouldn't be the case, though I might still try and ask him. Really I'm not even asking about possible newcomers, I'd just be asking if he still backs the evidence from that data leak.

 

[papagenos]

Question, do we know who Ashley’s new voice is?

I'm not sure but Red sounds a bit like Richard Horvitz to me (Zim in "Invader zim"/ Billy in "the grim adventures of billy and mandy") cant tell if its him or not but either way I dig it.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Honestly I think the bigger issues is that there just aren't an infinite amount of retro characters to pick from that have released worldwide, are relatively iconic and would actually work as a smash character. Excite biker and mach rider are pretty much the only ones I can think of.

Regardless, if we got no "retro reps", would anyone care? There were a notable amount of people who were disappointed when various characters were disconfirmed as ATs, whether in Smash 4 or Ultimate, but I can't see anywhere near the same level of disappointment happening if we get no "retro reps" for Ultimate.

 

[?????????????]

This might be strange to say, but I'm immediately skeptic of any "leaks" that don't include King K. Rool.

Like...I know he's not GUARANTEED or anything, but...he just seems so obvious at this point, it'd be harder for me to believe he isn't playable.

 

[osby]

I might have worded that a little to harshly, from the business perspective of corporate Nintendo there is probably a side to them that although they arent completely pushing promotional characters to drive sales directly they would probably prefer characters with a future or who plan to be featured in "current" games so that it drives the overall Nintendo brand.

obviously Corrin seemed to be very much so put in smash to push another games sales but I think theres still something to be said about characters like toad or Ashley who will certainly be featured in future games, have merchandise, create nintendo brand recognition as opposed to say isaac/geno/k rool etc... whos future and appeal is uncertain to the overall nintendo brand.

smash could of course revive those types of characters and i think nintendo is foolish to ignore the large fan base for these characters by not doing so but it certainly happens. theres definitely people in Nintendo concerned with their branding and character appeal and they somewhat decide which characters will say get t-shirts, toys, plushies etc... who gets put on Nintendo promotional marketing posters and stuff and which characters will be abandoned. Nintendo is a business at the end of the day. so to get k rool/geno/isaac in smash, although im sure sakurai has the final say, he probably does have to make the case to some extent that its a good idea to highlight these forgotten fan favorites rather than to once again continue to push currently established nintendo icons. im sure we'll get a mixture of both but smash, especially this post smash ballot game, has the unique ability to take ANY forgotten nintendo character and potentially throw them back into the spot light.

Sure, but it isn't Sakurai's job to reviving dead characters and franchises. He's also a game developer so I imagine he likes to support others. I'm positive we'll get at least one character like Isaac but I doubt a big part of the Top 20 Smash Ballot was consisting of such characters.

 

[MysticKnives]

I wouldn't be shocked if that were the case.

He's said it more than once. He's pretty adamant about it. It's connected to the fact that he really doesn't like that Daisy is just a clone.

Dang, I was hoping that wouldn't be the case, though I might still try and ask him. Really I'm not even asking about possible newcomers, I'd just be asking if he still backs the evidence from that data leak.

Given how adamant he's been about there being no newcomers, I personally wouldn't recommend it.

To be honest, I feel like people are more so expecting a "retro rep" because it's a trend rather than actually wanting one.

I feel like there's overlap. I think it's probably a combination. Many expect it, but some also feel like some of the best character additions are the "retro" characters or even the characters we don't really expect. Personally, I'm fine with any character as I don't dislike any character. I do think Sakurai will just do what he usually does though and pick popular and expected characters while also just picking ones that he personally wants in himself.

This might be strange to say, but I'm immediately skeptic of any "leaks" that don't include King K. Rool.

Like...I know he's not GUARANTEED or anything, but...he just seems so obvious at this point, it'd be harder for me to believe he isn't playable.

It's all subjective. No way of knowing at the moment. I'd be fine with his inclusion but I don't think he's obvious at all, but that's more so from the fact that I don't feel any specific character currently is obvious as the reality is that we really don't know how Sakurai is thinking about characters this time around and who he is and isn't considering. But that takes the fun out of speculation itself though so it's not a viewpoint I state too often. Like Inklings were the only "obvious" characters to me for this game, and they were taken cared of right out of the gate when we first learned of this game's existence.

 

[papagenos]

Sure, but it isn't Sakurai's job to reviving dead characters and franchises. He's also a game developer so I imagine he likes to support others. I'm positive we'll get at least one character like Isaac but I doubt a big part of the Top 20 Smash Ballot was consisting of such characters.

oh agreed, i wish I could remeber the interview or exactly what sakurai said it was something about it being a bit of a struggle or compromise or something to get this games roster... it somewhat implied it might have been difficult to either 1. make all the veterans again or 2. get snake and konami OR 3. maybe the issue was getting nintendo on board with some "out there" (as far as main stream appeal goes) characters that i assume came from the ballot, which is all im talking about here.

i'm really just assuming over a quote i cant find or fully remember but i recall talking about this, so yeah its a flimsy argument but either way I still could see sakurai and a board of nintendo execs talking through these sort of character choices.