Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

A Xenoblade character first? The Japanese have superior taste indeed.

>Sans

Oh wait I might have to take that back.

There's no way Sans'll get in.
We already have enough Mother representation.

 

[RandomAce]

View attachment 153433

I've got two sources on the contrary.

An Immensely In-depth Analysis on Sora's Chances of Getting in Smash
AND
HMK asks about Sora's rights and his chances at being in Smash Bros. (Posted by our friend @BluePikmin11)


Dug this up just for you.

All of this Disney crap with Sora is getting annoying.

You have a character that people have been asking for very heavily, why would you not want to include them into the biggest fighting game franchise of all time!?

Not to mention it’s NOMURA who is in charge of lending Kingdom Heart properties outside of the franchise itself, and he was clearly happy that Cloud got in, and in fact questioned why anyone would refuse that offer.

Really if Nomura was asked from Sakurai if Sora can be in Smash because of the fans, I can see him saying YES! Now whether they’ll add in some of the Disney related stuff is up to speculation, because I can maybe see Disney making it expensive for those properties, since they’re pretty big icons. It’s why I propose the idea of Sora being DLC, since it can allow them to share the profits of the content itself more easily without worrying about the profits of the base game itself.

But really I’m not sure how that’ll be handled.

Spoiler: Say it with me now

CAPTAIN TOAD CAN'T J U M P

Idk why, but I ****ing love you!
That’s not what I mean! Or what I mean about Captain Toad and his jump issue.

 

[N3ON]

Also a stage

Yeah but unless you're ROB, that's basically a given.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah but unless you're ROB, that's basically a given.

Why doesn't R.O.B. get a home?

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Here's something worth talking about. A pretty big gaming site in Japan just held an actual poll. As in, not PushDustin going around 2chan and Twitter and writing names down.

Here's the Top 5:

1. Rex (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
2. Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby)
3. Springman (ARMS)
4. King K. Rool (Donkey Kong)
5. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)

And the Honorable Mentions (in no particular order):

• 2B (Nier)
• Sans (Undertale)
• Ashley (WarioWare)
• Karate Joe (Rhythm Heaven)
• Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
• Geno (Super Mario)
• Decidueye (Pokemon)
• Mimikyu (Pokemon)
• Steve (Minecraft)
• Slime (Dragon Quest)
• Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
• Noctis (Final Fantasy)
• Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
• Banjo and Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie)
• Monster Hunter (Monster Hunter)
• Marx (Kirby)
• Ray (Custom Robo)
• Waluigi (Mario)
• Goku (Dragon Ball)
• Raiden (Metal Gear)

Thoughts?

Rex winning isn't a big surprise. Bandanna Dee is an interesting case because he's really one of the only characters that has a big fanbase and is well known in Japan and the West. This makes him one of the most likely newcomers imo. Spring Man is a surprise to me, I had no idea he was that popular in Japan or at least with the crowd that voted on this. He and Rex will for sure be DLC though there is a slight possibility Spring Man could sneak into the base game. K. Rool is another big surprise because most of the people on this website try to downplay his Japanese popularity but he seems to have a solid fan base at least with the crowd that voted on this. Sora isn't a huge surprise to me but his main obstacle isn't fan demand.

Also I'm shocked Ashley didn't crack the Top 5. Are the honorable mentions listed in any particular order? If so then it makes sense that she was still pretty high up at 7. Dragon Quest being that far down and Slime being the pick at that is a little strange to me. Goku gave me a good laugh, only non video game character to make this list.

One more thing to point out is that Isabelle isn't anywhere to be found here. Now that may not really mean anything but it is somewhat telling.

 

[Will]

We know how much too late it was in Smash Ultimate's proposal and too early in XC2 that Rex won't be in the base roster.

But DLC?
I bet you he'll be the first one to pop up.

 

[Zinith]

Yeah but unless you're ROB, that's basically a given.

Well, they might just as well have not given a stage for each of the 3rd party DLC characters, but they did...

 

[Zerp]

Here's something worth talking about. A pretty big gaming site in Japan just held an actual poll. As in, not PushDustin going around 2chan and Twitter and writing names down.

Here's the Top 5:

1. Rex (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
2. Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby)
3. Springman (ARMS)
4. King K. Rool (Donkey Kong)
5. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)

And the Honorable Mentions (in no particular order):

• 2B (Nier)
• Sans (Undertale)
• Ashley (WarioWare)
• Karate Joe (Rhythm Heaven)
• Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
• Geno (Super Mario)
• Decidueye (Pokemon)
• Mimikyu (Pokemon)
• Steve (Minecraft)
• Slime (Dragon Quest)
• Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
• Noctis (Final Fantasy)
• Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
• Banjo and Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie)
• Monster Hunter (Monster Hunter)
• Marx (Kirby)
• Ray (Custom Robo)
• Waluigi (Mario)
• Goku (Dragon Ball)
• Raiden (Metal Gear)

Thoughts?

Anyone know how big the sample size was?

 

[N3ON]

Spoiler: Say it with me now

CAPTAIN TOAD CAN'T J U M P

Ok!

Spoiler

INKLING CAN'T S W I M

Oh woops, I think I did it wrong. Embarrass

 

[Makai Wars]

Here's something worth talking about. A pretty big gaming site in Japan just held an actual poll. As in, not PushDustin going around 2chan and Twitter and writing names down.

Here's the Top 5:

1. Rex (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
2. Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby)
3. Springman (ARMS)
4. King K. Rool (Donkey Kong)
5. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)

And the Honorable Mentions (in no particular order):

• 2B (Nier)
• Sans (Undertale)
• Ashley (WarioWare)
• Karate Joe (Rhythm Heaven)
• Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
• Geno (Super Mario)
• Decidueye (Pokemon)
• Mimikyu (Pokemon)
• Steve (Minecraft)
• Slime (Dragon Quest)
• Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
• Noctis (Final Fantasy)
• Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
• Banjo and Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie)
• Monster Hunter (Monster Hunter)
• Marx (Kirby)
• Ray (Custom Robo)
• Waluigi (Mario)
• Goku (Dragon Ball)
• Raiden (Metal Gear)

Thoughts?

I'm pretty happy with this list, actually. There's nothing here that's overtly terrible outside of Minecraft Steve and even then I don't hate the idea as much as I just don't care for it (and Goku...lol). Really cool to see K. Rool that high and Ashely place up there as well. Out of all of these, I'd like K. Rool, Dee, Monster Hunter, Geno and Ashely to make the cut.
Could have sworn people were saying that Japan didn't like Decidueye, and yet Incineroar and Lycanrock aren't on the list...

 

[Idon]

What would ROB's stage even be?
Real life?
Another giant ROB?

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Seeing Bandana Dee do well in popularity polls is making me happy~

if he's not in at base I can see him as D(ee)LC~

 

[Zinith]

What would ROB's stage even be?
Real life?
Another giant ROB?

Could be a stage from Gyromite or Stack-Up easily (more likely the former)

 

[Houndstooth]

Your reaction if we randomly get a newcomer announcement and trailer like the Brawl days?

So. Much. Hype.

Also, my sleep schedule would suffer so much if it were during the same hours. But man, would it be worth it. Nothing like going to bed after seeing a new character reveal. Actually, staying up all night to discuss it with everyone else is where it's at!

The Geno talk was pretty interesting. He's the character I am supporting the most this time around. I think he has a lot of things going for him this time as compared to other times. Oh, that reminds me, the Mii Gunner talk. I remember seeing the Geno Mii Costume announcement. On one hand, I was excited because both Nintendo and Square acknowledged that he existed! On the other... He was just a Mii Costume. Still, bought it anyway just to show my support for the guy.

Anyway, I've been digging through some of the old Geno threads(Brawl and Sm4sh) to see what they were discussing at the same time that we were. And, I found this old post about a potential moveset. Thought it was relevant to the Mii Gunner/Geno discussion. I forgot to copy the name of the user here on Smash, but his Tumblr account is on the image. Check it out.

Spoiler: Geno Moveset Potential

 

[Ultinarok]

Here's something worth talking about. A pretty big gaming site in Japan just held an actual poll. As in, not PushDustin going around 2chan and Twitter and writing names down.

Here's the Top 5:

1. Rex (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
2. Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby)
3. Springman (ARMS)
4. King K. Rool (Donkey Kong)
5. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)

And the Honorable Mentions (in no particular order):

• 2B (Nier)
• Sans (Undertale)
• Ashley (WarioWare)
• Karate Joe (Rhythm Heaven)
• Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
• Geno (Super Mario)
• Decidueye (Pokemon)
• Mimikyu (Pokemon)
• Steve (Minecraft)
• Slime (Dragon Quest)
• Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
• Noctis (Final Fantasy)
• Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
• Banjo and Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie)
• Monster Hunter (Monster Hunter)
• Marx (Kirby)
• Ray (Custom Robo)
• Waluigi (Mario)
• Goku (Dragon Ball)
• Raiden (Metal Gear)

Thoughts?

Rex is number one but Elma isn't even an honorable mention? Is X really that much more unpopular over there? Or has everyone just completely written it off because Xenoblade 2 is out and they just assume that the middle entry has already been obseleted? Either way, that's really strange.

Also no Isaac whatsoever. That really speaks volumes I suppose about how niche he really is that we just don't seem to notice. Isaac has been treated as such a no brainer, or at least as a top contender, on these boards that it's actually kind of jarring to see him not even place in the top 20 in Japan. Makes me feel like we may sadly give him more credit than the rest of the world does.

But Geno made it up there, for those who say Geno has nothing more than a vocal cult following. Love for the dude may be more widespread than I believed. He may have a bigger chance than I imagined.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Anyone know how big the sample size was?

No, nobody does unfortunately.

However, their Twitter has 62.2K followers, and they 20,212 followers on their Facebook and 5K subs on their Youtube.

These guys are pretty big.

Rex is number one but Elma isn't even an honorable mention? Is X really that much more unpopular over there? Or has everyone just completely written it off because Xenoblade 2 is out and they just assume that the middle entry has already been obseleted? Either way, that's really strange.

Also no Isaac whatsoever. That really speaks volumes I suppose about how niche he really is that we just don't seem to notice. Isaac has been treated as such a no brainer, or at least as a top contender, on these boards that it's actually kind of jarring to see him not even place in the top 20 in Japan. Makes me feel like we may sadly give him more credit than the rest of the world does.

But Geno made it up there, for those who say Geno has nothing more than a vocal cult following. Love for the dude may be more widespread than I believed. He may have a bigger chance than I imagined.

Isaac and Golden Sun might as well not exist in Japan. Isaac has always been requested mainly in the West only.

 

[Will]

Ok!

Spoiler

INKLING CAN'T S W I M

Oh woops, I think I did it wrong. Embarrass

You did.

Spoiler

INKLING'S INABILITY TO SWIM ISN'T AS GREAT OF A HANDICAP AS CAPTAIN'S TOAD LITERAL GAME GIMMICK OF NOT BEING ABLE TO JUMP
THIS ISN'T INKLING NOT BEING ABLE TO SWIM LEVELS OF BAD
THIS IS MONKEY D. LUFFY NOT BEING ABLE TO SWIM LEVELS OF BAD
YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY "NO ****" TO KNOW THAT LUFFY CAN'T SWIM AND CAPTAIN TOAD CAN'T JUMP

 

[NeonBurrito]

One more thing to point out is that Isabelle isn't anywhere to be found here. Now that may not really mean anything but it is somewhat telling.

I think that might just have to do with how people really don't want to see her being beat up. But that's just a hunch.

Anyone know how big the sample size was?

ya as big as ur mom!!!!!!
Dumb elementary school insults aside, there's no definitive answer, which is rather unfortunate, so take the results with at least a grain of salt or two. However, there are lots of references to there being "many" votes, for even the run off characters, as well as a lot of people knowing about the site, like DaybreakHorizon has mentioned.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think that might just have to do with how people really don't want to see her being beat up. But that's just a hunch.

The Isabelle part might also have to do with the fact that a separate poll was conducted for potential Echo fighters, which a lot of people see Isabelle as being.

While she didn't make the top 5, they do mention 4 honorable mentions, being "Casny," "Nature," "Rufure," and Celica. That's just crummy Google Translate though, so if someone can actually read Japanese and get back to us on that it'd be greatly appreciated.

 

[MBRedboy31]

What would ROB's stage even be?
Real life?
Another giant ROB?

One could argue that the Isle of the Ancients / Subspace Bomb Factory in the SSE was R.O.B.'s home stage, despite being in a single player mode and only being referential to the completely separate lore for R.O.B. that exists in Smash but not in his own series.
Notice how R.O.B.'s series symbol is a picture of a gyro, but the design of it also references the Subspace Army logo.

 

[N3ON]

You did.

Spoiler

INKLING'S INABILITY TO SWIM ISN'T AS GREAT OF A HANDICAP AS CAPTAIN'S TOAD LITERAL GAME GIMMICK OF NOT BEING ABLE TO JUMP
THIS ISN'T INKLING NOT BEING ABLE TO SWIM LEVELS OF BAD
THIS IS MONKEY D. LUFFY NOT BEING ABLE TO SWIM LEVELS OF BAD
YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY "NO ****" TO KNOW THAT LUFFY CAN'T SWIM AND CAPTAIN TOAD CAN'T JUMP

Yes it is, it's literally insta-death on any map. Smash mechanics take priority in Smash.

 

[Honest Slug]

Isn't the in-game reason for why Captain Toad can't jump is the weight of his backpack? If so couldn't they just have him remove his backpack when he needs to jump? That stays true to his character while letting him perform the mechanics needed for Smash.

 

[Will]

Yes it is, it's literally insta-death on any map. I guess Smash doesn't retain every mechanic from other games when Smash's mechanics take priority.

Well yeah their bodies are made of 100% water. They can technically swim in their own ink once they dive in it.

Captain Toad not being able to jump is something I will never shrug off, essentially since it's very vital to both his games and his character.
I mean, if you can make him work while also not giving him the ability to jump, props to daddy sakky. If not, I'll be pretty upsetti. If you think about it Captain Toad being in Smash would make him the real first puzzle fighter and not Lip.

Isn't the in-game reason for why Captain Toad can't jump is the weight of his backpack? If so couldn't they just have him remove his backpack when he needs to jump? That stays true to his character while letting him perform the mechanics needed for Smash.

Yeah, I said if they removed the backpack it would be an easy solution. Not sure if Sakurai would be willing to do that, though.
I wouldn't buy the "he made his backpack light enough just so he could jump" shenanigans if he ended up pulling that move.

 

[Aeronite's Kiseki]

The Isabelle part might also have to do with the fact that a separate poll was conducted for potential Echo fighters, which a lot of people see Isabelle as being.

While she didn't make the top 5, they do mention 4 honorable mentions, being "Casny," "Nature," "Rufure," and Celica. That's just crummy Google Translate though, so if someone can actually read Japanese and get back to us on that it'd be greatly appreciated.

So Casny is actually Palutena, I think someone who's JPN name is Nature (EDIT: Viridi (Nature was her name in the JPN version) in Kid Icarus: Uprising was honorable and Celica to Robin (Rufure is Robin)

 

[N3ON]

Well yeah their bodies are made of 100% water. They can technically swim in their own ink once they dive in it.

What does any explanation matter if Smash is going to ignore it?

Captain Toad not being able to jump is something I will never shrug off, essentially since it's very vital to both his games and his character.
I mean, if you can make him work while also not giving him the ability to jump, props to daddy sakky. If not, I'll be pretty upsetti. If you think about it Captain Toad being in Smash would make him the real first puzzle fighter and not Lip.

I hate to break it to you but Captain Toad would not be the first character in Smash to be portrayed with less than 100% faith. It happens.

Also Doc is Smash's first puzzle fighter.

 

[Staarih]

While she didn't make the top 5, they do mention 4 honorable mentions, being "Casny," "Nature," "Rufure," and Celica. That's just crummy Google Translate though, so if someone can actually read Japanese and get back to us on that it'd be greatly appreciated.

From what I gathered, it mentions Viridi (in regards to Palutena) and Celica (in regards to Robin).

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Here's something worth talking about. A pretty big gaming site in Japan just held an actual poll. As in, not PushDustin going around 2chan and Twitter and writing names down.

Here's the Top 5:

1. Rex (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
2. Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby)
3. Springman (ARMS)
4. King K. Rool (Donkey Kong)
5. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)

And the Honorable Mentions (in no particular order):

• 2B (Nier)
• Sans (Undertale)
• Ashley (WarioWare)
• Karate Joe (Rhythm Heaven)
• Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
• Geno (Super Mario)
• Decidueye (Pokemon)
• Mimikyu (Pokemon)
• Steve (Minecraft)
• Slime (Dragon Quest)
• Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
• Noctis (Final Fantasy)
• Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
• Banjo and Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie)
• Monster Hunter (Monster Hunter)
• Marx (Kirby)
• Ray (Custom Robo)
• Waluigi (Mario)
• Goku (Dragon Ball)
• Raiden (Metal Gear)

Thoughts?

I'm happy to see Decidueye in the honorable mentions, but Hat Goomba being number two has to receive a huge "Yikes!" from me.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So Casny is actually Palutena, I think someone who's JPN name is Nature (EDIT: Viridi (Nature was her name in the JPN version) in Kid Icarus: Uprising was honorable and Celica to Robin (Rufure is Robin)

Nature is Viridi then.

 

[Idon]

Man, I want Captain Toad so much. It's SUCH a shame that Smash NEVER deviates from canon and ALWAYS restricts its characters to their PUREST incarnation.

... Oh well, at least I can play ZSS the kamen rider!

 

[Luminario]

One more thing to point out is that Isabelle isn't anywhere to be found here. Now that may not really mean anything but it is somewhat telling.

Looking at the other characters on this poll I don't think Isabelle really fits with that type of demographic, at least not as a unique fighter.
The character choices kinda makes the voters look like the Japanese equivalent of Smashboard regulars, and I mean that in a non-*****y way.

 

[Will]

I hate to break it to you but Captain Toad would not be the first character in Smash to be portrayed with less than 100% faith. It happens.

I still find it a valid reason as to not want him in. It's just that much of a deal to me whether you like it or not.

Man, I want Captain Toad so much. It's SUCH a shame that Smash NEVER deviates from canon and ALWAYS restricts its characters to their PUREST incarnation.

... Oh well, at least I can play ZSS the kamen rider!

Kick me in the back too why don't you?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm happy to see Decidueye in the honorable mentions, but Hat Goomba being number two has to receive a huge "Yikes!" from me.

You can start calling Bandana Waddle Dee a "hat goomba" when he stops being marketed and receiving major roles.

 

[Will]

You can start calling Bandana Waddle Dee a "hat goomba" when he stops being marketed and receiving major roles.

Pretty sure it's a /v/ quote.
Because I was there.
Or maybe he was the same guy, who knows?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, pretty interesting list. All very popular characters as is. None even surprise me whatsoever.

Though I'd like a full proper list of all the Echo suggestions. Not surprised Isabelle was brought up as a potential one(the Tom Nook would fit better, heh, or many of the regular animal villagers themselves. Regardless, they all can potentially do those things anyway, so it wouldn't really matter much if Villager got an Echo or not).

 

[N3ON]

I still find it a valid reason as to not want him in. It's just that much of a deal to me whether you like it or not.

For sure, I'm not trying to dictate opinion, but that's different than arguing facts.

And fwiw,

We know how much too late it was in Smash Ultimate's proposal and too early in XC2 that Rex won't be in the base roster.

But DLC?
I bet you he'll be the first one to pop up.

I bet you he won't. ;P

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You can start calling Bandana Waddle Dee a "hat goomba" when he stops being marketed and receiving major roles.

I really hope he gets in, but preferably I'd like him to take the name "Waddle Dee". If they call him "Bandanna Waddle Dee" in Super Smash Bros, it really is just gonna feel like "Hat Goomba" (I know that's what they call him in recent games).

I've been a huge fan of Waddle Dee since my first Kirby game "Kirby 64" and it's partly because of his name. There's hopefully no need to differentiate him with the prefix of Bandanna if he's a playable fighter in Super Smash Bros.

 

[osby]

What does any explanation matter if Smash is going to ignore it?


I hate to break it to you but Captain Toad would not be the first character in Smash to be portrayed with less than 100% faith. It happens.

Also Doc is Smash's first puzzle fighter.

True, he would be 69th one.

 

[Will]

I bet you he won't. ;P

How much we putting on the table here?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They are awfully late with the update today.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They are awfully late with the update today.

Seems to be the normal case for Tuesdays, really.

Doubt it'll be anything notable. We've still got a long way to go in "restating information, bar maybe a few details somebody didn't know about (yet)."