Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

I think there could be 12 Newcomers total (that aren't echoes), so who do you think they will save to be #75?

Maybe Rex because he'd be the newest character? Or if he actually makes Geno a fighter, maybe him because he's the most unusual addition?

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

I still find it a valid reason as to not want him in. It's just that much of a deal to me whether you like it or not.

Well then perhaps form your argument around it being a reason why you don't want him to be in, rather then why he can't be in? The former is a valid opinion that I can respect, but the latter is a dumb excuse that's easily worked around from a design perspective.

 

[osby]

I think there is going to be 12 Newcomers total (that aren't echoes), so who do you think they will save to be #75?

Maybe Rex because he'd be the newest character? Or if he actually makes Geno a fighter, maybe him because he's the most unusual addition?

Noone listened Sakurai when he said not to expect too many newcomers, did they?

 

[Zerp]

I'm happy to see Decidueye in the honorable mentions, but Hat Goomba being number two has to receive a huge "Yikes!" from me.

>Hat Goomba

Bandana Dee is a actual character, this is like if I were to say Chrom is Blue Hair Human or that Waluigi is merely Purple Hat Human despite their characterization, there's more to the character than just being a certain species plus a hat lol. Think of Goombario or Goombella from Paper Mario but if they were major recurring characters.

They are awfully late with the update today.

It'd be funny if Sakurai's handling this like a real blog, and he just updates it at random intervals without any schedule and does it whenever he feels like, and all the patterns we 're taking note of don't actually exist and could be broken at any moment.

 

[N3ON]

How much we putting on the table here?

I'll wager my avatar for a month. You?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Noone listened Sakurai when he said not to expect too many newcomers, did they?

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if there were only 8. He pretty much said the same thing last time though.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Captain Toad's inability to jump could maybe deter Sakurai from choosing him if Sakurai actually cares about it; after all one of Sakurai's stated reasons for excluding Ridley prior to Ultimate was that Ridley not being able to fly unrestricted "wouldn't feel right". However if Sakurai wants to add Captain Toad he will do so anyway regardless of the jumping, Smash takes liberties with every character to make them functional and balanced; Ridley and Charizard can't fly in Smash, the Kirby characters don't have unlimited jumps, and Ganondorf can't float at all (and even has the worst midair jump despite his canonical ability to defy gravity), while on the opposite spectrum you have a bunch of characters being able to do midair jumps just fine that would never make sense being able to do in their own games (can you imagine the likes of Snake defying gravity and midair jumping in a Metal Gear game?).

Even as someone who is critical of the concept of Toad and Captain Toad making it into Smash, I think the whole jumping argument is nonsense and is very unlikely to matter to Sakurai.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

You can start calling Bandana Waddle Dee a "hat goomba" when he stops being marketed and receiving major roles.

>Hat Goomba
View attachment 153438
Bandana Dee is a actual character, this is like if I were to say Chrom is Blue Hair Human or that Waluigi is merely Purple Hat Human despite their characterization, there's more to the character than just being a certain species plus a hat lol. Think of Goombario or Goombella from Paper Mario but if they were major recurring characters.

It doesn't matter. There are still far more deserving characters who should be prioritized over a generic mook with a bandana and spear such as Decidueye, Ashley, King K. Rool, Paper Mario, Elma, and Spring Man. Even from Dee's own series, Marx would be a better choice. Sorry, no offense to Dee fans who really want him.

 

[N3ON]

Hat Goomba makes me laugh and clearly gets people bent out of shape over something pretty ignorable, so I may pick up the term myself.

 

[osby]

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if there were only 8. He pretty much said the same thing last time though.

Sure but we have a lot more veterans with no cuts.

 

[OdnetninAges]

and then next month we can have a reveal trailer for Kyle Hyde.

Next month? That's when EVO is.
Clearly Kyle Hyde will share a reveal trailer with Hyde Kido just like how Professor Layton and Phoenix Wright will share a reveal trailer. 2 Hydes in Smash, 2 characters that were never in any leaks. They'll never see it coming.

If Sora got in but had no hint of Disney influence I'd be upset.

What's the point of Kingdom Hearts content if it doesn't represent what might be the second biggest crossover in gaming outside of the sheer insanity that is Smash?

I don't know why, but I can totally imagine a Mickey Mouse trophy.

Regardless, if they bring back the chronicle (list of every game published by Nintendo along with their release dates) from Brawl, they could mention the Disney games Nintendo apparently published for the Game & Watch. I remember being somewhat surprised to see that in Brawl...

 

[osby]

It doesn't matter. There are still far more deserving characters who should be prioritized over a generic mook with a bandana and spear such as Decidueye, Ashley, King K. Rool, Paper Mario, Elma, and Spring Man. Even from Dee's own series, Marx would be a better choice. Sorry, no offense to Dee fans who really want him.

Why should a generic Kremlin in cosplay should be prioritized, again? Or a generic Mario made of paper?

 

[Zerp]

It doesn't matter. There are still far more deserving characters who should be prioritized over a generic mook with a bandana and spear such as Decidueye, Ashley, King K. Rool, Paper Mario, Elma, and Spring Man. Even from Dee's own series, Marx would be a better choice.

No, Marx isn't. Bandana Dee's the fourth main character and Marx was the final boss twice (counting the remake) and playable in Star Allies, Bandana Dee is a supporting cast member in SSU, main playable in RtDL, main playable again in Rainbow Curse as the secondary protagonist, supporting cast in TDX, Planet Robobot and Team Kirby Clash, secondary protagonist( non-playable but still) in Battle Royale and again main playable in Star Allies.
Also, why Marx over Dark Matter if we're going by deservingness?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I certainly hope Bandanna Dee does get in. Easily one of my favorite choices, but I also want a spear moveset and he has tons of potential, as not just the 4th major Kirby character, but as an actual defined character. Not a lot of races in the Kirby series are fully defined either, and Bandanna Dee is one of the very few. Rest were often Anime interpretations that made them notable. Bandanna Dee isn't one of those cases(as he got fully defined as his own thing in the games specifically).

 

[Makai Wars]

I like the idea of having a generic toad who simply pulls things from any and all incarnations of toads including captain toad. This sidesteps the no jumping issue and also allows Toad to have a more flexible moveset, though I have no idea what that would be.

Even though I adore Toadette to bits and had Toad as my go to for years in Mario Kart and other spinoffs, I'm not really in a rush to see him join the fray in Smash, maybe because he's just so dang good at his supporting roles.
Also you're going to be hard pressed to find an incarnation of Toad that looks cuter than his look in Mario Party 2.

Please look at my son

 

[Opossum]

You've heard of Bandana Waddle Dee being Hat Goomba, but get ready for...

Waluigi as Long Plumber
Captain Toad as Horizontal Shroom
Skull Kid as Trippy Shy Guy
Ashley as Small Gruntilda
K. Rool as Extinguished Bowser
Dixie Kong as Wig Diddy
Decidueye as Archer Noctowl
Mimikyu as Cosplay Pikachu ignore Pika Libre
Lycanroc as Rugged Duck Hunt
Incineroar as Heel Meowth
Chrom as Buff Dad Marth
Celica as Robin Marth
Isabelle as Dog Bellwether
Elma as Military Girl Dante
Chorus Kids as Musical Ice Climbers
Dillon as Western Sonic
Springman as Stretchy Little Mac
Simon Belmont as BDSM He-Man
Rabbids as Fuzzy Minions
Rayman as Hoodie Sukapon
Crash Bandicoot as Australian Sonic
Geno as Celestial Pinocchio

 

[N3ON]

You've heard of Bandana Waddle Dee being Hat Goomba, but get ready for...

Waluigi as Long Plumber
Captain Toad as Horizontal Shroom
Skull Kid as Trippy Shy Guy
Ashley as Small Gruntilda
K. Rool as Extinguished Bowser
Dixie Kong as Wig Diddy
Decidueye as Archer Noctowl
Mimikyu as Cosplay Pikachu ignore Pika Libre
Lycanroc as Rugged Duck Hunt
Incineroar as Heel Meowth
Chrom as Buff Dad Marth
Celica as Robin Marth
Isabelle as Dog Bellwether
Elma as Military Girl Dante
Chorus Kids as Musical Ice Climbers
Dillon as Western Sonic
Springman as Stretchy Little Mac
Simon Belmont as BDSM He-Man
Rabbids as Fuzzy Minions
Rayman as Hoodie Sukapon
Crash Bandicoot as Australian Sonic
Geno as Celestial Pinocchio

Where's Scarf Marth

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Why should a generic Kremlin in cosplay should be prioritized, again? Or a generic Mario made of paper?

Um. No. I'm sorry. That analogy doesn't work. Waddle Dee really is just a Waddle Dee wearing a bandanna. King K. Rool is not just a kremling wearing a crown. Paper Mario is not just 3D Mario drawn on a peice of paper and cut out.

 

[Zinith]

You've heard of Bandana Waddle Dee being Hat Goomba, but get ready for...

Waluigi as Long Plumber
Captain Toad as Horizontal Shroom
Skull Kid as Trippy Shy Guy
Ashley as Small Gruntilda
K. Rool as Extinguished Bowser
Dixie Kong as Wig Diddy
Decidueye as Archer Noctowl
Mimikyu as Cosplay Pikachu ignore Pika Libre
Lycanroc as Rugged Duck Hunt
Incineroar as Heel Meowth
Chrom as Buff Dad Marth
Celica as Robin Marth
Isabelle as Dog Bellwether
Elma as Military Girl Dante
Chorus Kids as Musical Ice Climbers
Dillon as Western Sonic
Springman as Stretchy Little Mac
Simon Belmont as BDSM He-Man
Rabbids as Fuzzy Minions
Rayman as Hoodie Sukapon
Crash Bandicoot as Australian Sonic
Geno as Celestial Pinocchio

I liked Luminario calling my most wanted "Cooler Yoshi"

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Simon Belmont as BDSM He-Man

I mean...

He-Man seems more like the BDSM guy than Simon does...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

To bad Sailor Dee isn't viable, because he's got actual personality

 

[Opossum]

Where's Scarf Marth

You mean RPG Captain Falcon? Get it because dead series. **** now I'm sad.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I really want Waddle Dee in Smash, but I wanna throw it out there that I totally agree with SuperSceptile15 .

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean...

He-Man seems more like the BDSM guy than Simon does...

I blame the belts and whip, really. He-Man would be more Bara Man, imo.

 

[OdnetninAges]

You've heard of Bandana Waddle Dee being Hat Goomba, but get ready for...

Waluigi as Long Plumber
Captain Toad as Horizontal Shroom
Skull Kid as Trippy Shy Guy
Ashley as Small Gruntilda
K. Rool as Extinguished Bowser
Dixie Kong as Wig Diddy
Decidueye as Archer Noctowl
Mimikyu as Cosplay Pikachu ignore Pika Libre
Lycanroc as Rugged Duck Hunt
Incineroar as Heel Meowth
Chrom as Buff Dad Marth
Celica as Robin Marth
Isabelle as Dog Bellwether
Elma as Military Girl Dante
Chorus Kids as Musical Ice Climbers
Dillon as Western Sonic
Springman as Stretchy Little Mac
Simon Belmont as BDSM He-Man
Rabbids as Fuzzy Minions
Rayman as Hoodie Sukapon
Crash Bandicoot as Australian Sonic
Geno as Celestial Pinocchio

I can always count on this thread to give me a hearty laugh.

 

[NeonBurrito]

Hat Goomba makes me laugh and clearly gets people bent out of shape over something pretty ignorable, so I may pick up the term myself.

People get really upset over it, and I have no clue why.
Do people just forget that Mario has had some great Goombas in hats over the years? I'm not even a Bandana Dee guy, but if anything, it should be a compliment. Goombas are rad.
A better one would be "Top Hat Rattata," or "Fedora Octorok," or "Baseball Cap Motobug," or "Beret Heartless," or "Boater Hat Kremling," or "Cowboy Moblin." You know, this is pretty fun actually. You can make a lot of these.

 

[Makai Wars]

Waddle Dee is literally the secondary mascot of the Kirby series, do you know how much merchandise he has? He's in a much higher spot than Goomba ever has been. Saying Dee shouldn't get in Smash because he's one of a race is like saying we shouldn't get a Pokemon because they're one of a race.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Kirby is primary
Dedede and Meta Knight are secondary
Bandana Dee would probably be tertiary

Edit: Ironically Red-Orange is a tertiary color, the color of Bandana Dee

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I can always count on this thread to give me a hearty laugh.

I hope you mean you are laughing at the failure that are his analogies. If he's not actually serious.

 

[OdnetninAges]

I hope you mean you are laughing at the failure that are his analogies. If he's not actually serious.

Not everyone can find humor in "Simon Belmont as BDSM He-Man", and I understand that.
But I sure do.

 

[Opossum]

I hope you mean you are laughing at the failure that are his analogies. If he's not actually serious.

Settle down, Noah. You'll get yourself sad again.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Waddle Dee is literally the secondary mascot of the Kirby series

Aha--No. That's King Dedede and Meta Knight.

do you know how much merchandise he has? He's in a much higher spot than Goomba ever has been. Saying Dee shouldn't get in Smash because he's one of a race is like saying we shouldn't get a Pokemon because they're one of a race.

No, it's really not. Comparing generic enemies to Pokemon is not a fair comparison in the slightest.

 

[osby]

Um. No. I'm sorry. That analogy doesn't work. Waddle Dee really is just a Waddle Dee wearing a bandanna. King K. Rool is not just a kremling wearing a crown. Paper Mario is not just 3D Mario drawn on a peice of paper and cut out.

My bad, why would we need a fat kremlin with a crown and 2D Mario?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

My bad, why would we need a fat kremlin with a crown and 2D Mario?

We don't need 2D Mario

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And you people call me passive aggressive.

Sheesh.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No, it's really not. Comparing generic enemies to Pokemon is not a fair comparison in the slightest.

Oh, it definitely is fair. Because it's the same thing. It's judging an actual character by their race, not who they actually are. All Pokemon can be called "geneirc races", and most of them aren't even defined characters outside of the anime in itself and a few spin-offs. Not even Pikachu till after the anime aired, making him a specific character in Pokemon Yellow compared to just being a catchable race. Only the Legendaries and other pure one-offs could be remotely called "defined", and most were nothing more than gifts to justify more trading. Not even Eevee was more than helping with trade bait.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Aha--No. That's King Dedede and Meta Knight.

Eh, I agree with you on Dedede but at this point Bandanna Dee has overtaken Meta Knight as the third most prominent character in the series. And that's coming from someone who prefers Meta Knight to Bandanna Dee.

 

[N3ON]

You mean RPG Captain Falcon? Get it because dead series. **** now I'm sad.

I was just... just having fun, playing along...

ITS TOO REAL NOW

IM GOING HOME

;_;

 

[Idon]

I can't believe we've gone to Waddle Dee racism.
This is amazing.

 

[Makai Wars]

Aha--No. That's King Dedede and Meta Knight.

No, it's Waddle Dee.

DDD and MK are leads in the games, but in sheer marketing Waddle Dee is #2. Note how I did not say secondary PROTAONGIST. I said secondary MASCOT.

No, it's really not. Comparing generic enemies to Pokemon is not a fair comparison in the slightest.

Explain. Pikachu is a generic Pikachu. Charizard is a generic Charizard. I think Mewtwo is the non non-genric, and even that's iffy since I think there's like two Mewtwos running around in Pokemon canon right now, and we're not even getting into the PARRAELL UNIVERSES