Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Cryogonal, Chandelure, Petilil, and Koffing would like a word with you. Two words, actually, and those words are Smash Run.

And Gastly. Don't forget Gastly.

After all, it's the first form of:

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That’s... not a good analogy to make.

No offense, but King K. Rool has a more distinct design compared to the Kremlings than Bandana Dee is to Waddle Dee.

The main difference in design is the colour of their skin, their hats and K.Rool's eye infection. Bandana Dee has a hat, talks, a darker shade of orange and a spear. They're both similar to an extent, just that Bandana Dee has the benefit of being a part of a species that's highly marketed and a series staple

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't really think it matters if I like Waddle Dee anyway because he very well could be in with that whole amiibo data leak

I'd just personally prefer if Marx got more prominence

 

[SirCamp]

Simon Belmont as BDSM He-Man

Suddenly Simon seems much more interesting...

 

[Icedragonadam]

I'm dying waiting for the update so here's another game while we pray for the new track to tide us over for the week.

Pick your favorite newcomers you want based on their color (main or secondary color)! My list:
Red - Ashley / Celica
Blue - Bandana Dee
Green - Linkle
Yellow - Zeraora / Mythra
Purple - Hilda (LBW)
Orange - Goku Infernape
White - Amaterasu / 2B
Black - Shadow
Brown - Sora Just Monika
Pink - Yarn Kirby / Lip

Red - Lloyd Irving
Blue - Bandana Dee
Green - King K. Rool
Yellow - Banjo
Purple - Gengar
Orange - Crash
White - Mach Rider
Black - Simon Belmont
Brown - Funky Kong
Pink - Midbus?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't really think it matters if I like Waddle Dee anyway because he very well could be in with that whole amiibo data leak

I'd just personally prefer if Marx got more prominence

I must have missed that leak...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We don't know, it's never been addressed, he might be, he might not be.
I think he is but thats baseless, who knows, we might get to see in the Kirby 64 levels Star Allies is bringing though lol

I've always wondered that myself. Someone should really ask the Kirby developers that next time they're doing a Q&A.

Hmm. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same person myself. Would make sense, actually. I mean, that one is Kirby's friend and all. So his friend taking on a new role and weapons to help make sense.

As for the amiibo point somebody made earlier, Bokoblin got an amiibo before any of the Champions. It means absolutely nothing. Generic races and actual characters get amiibo as is. Besides, the only Ganondorf amiibo is from Smash specifically, not even a Legend of Zelda Series one exists, for whatever reason. Ganon(none of his forms, whether Puppet, TP's version, the original ALTTP and remade but similar Moblins, or his OOT variation. At least the BOTW one can be justified as hard to make. Not so much the rest) don't have one either.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I must have missed that leak...

They found data in Wooly World for another Daisy and Waddle Dee amiibo that hasn't been released

We now know the Daisy amiibo is the Smash one

Or at least, can guess

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Smash website updates slow on purpose

 

[Zerp]

Did anyone ever verify the Amiibo leak, or was that really just something theDaisyguywemustnotname said with nobody else backing it up?

 

[Makai Wars]

Pick your favorite newcomers you want based on their color (main or secondary color)!

Red- Octoling
Purple -Shantae
Green - Octoling
Blue - Octoling
Pink - Octoling
Orange -Octoling
Yellow - Octoling

Im pretty content with the roster so far

 

[RandomAce]

The main difference in design is the colour of their skin, their hats and K.Rool's eye infection. Bandana Dee has a hat, talks, a darker shade of orange and a spear. They're both similar to an extent, just that Bandana Dee has the benefit of being a part of a species that's highly marketed and a series staple

Hmm... I see where your coming from.

However, they’re not comparable to one another, even to an extent.

King K. Rool has a completely different physic and personality compared to the Kremilings, they don’t even look alike if you stand them side by side, that’s why people don’t bring up the arguement about King K. Rool looking generic or anything compared to the Kremlings. Bandana Dee on the other hand is much more comparable to the other Waddle Dees, his most notable difference is his Bandana, but aside from that, it’s all up to personality and lore, his physic and even name store a big resemblance compared to the Waddle Dees.

Ok, but really arguing about Bandana Dee and him being generic is just plain stupid, we’ve been through this countless times already.

God, I hate Smash droughts.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Red- Octoling
Purple -Shantae
Green - Octoling
Blue - Octoling
Pink - Octoling
Orange -Octoling
Yellow - Octoling

Im pretty content with the roster so far

That reminds me, someone was talking about potential colors for Octolings and they mentioned white, red, and yellow until I brought up that might look too much like bodily fluids. They should also have a brown

 

[Zinith]

I'm dying waiting for the update so here's another game while we pray for the new track to tide us over for the week.

Pick your favorite newcomers you want based on their color (main or secondary color)! My list:
Red - Ashley / Celica
Blue - Bandana Dee
Green - Linkle
Yellow - Zeraora / Mythra
Purple - Hilda (LBW)
Orange - Goku Infernape
White - Amaterasu / 2B
Black - Shadow
Brown - Sora Just Monika
Pink - Yarn Kirby / Lip

Red - Elma
Blue - BOSHI!!!
Green - Sceptile
Yellow - Umm, Isaac?
Purple - Spyro or Salazzle
Orange - Crash
White - Mach Rider
Black - Simon
Brown - Funky Kong
Pink - Umm, Midbus?

And to represent all the colors of the Yoshis:
Cyan - Mike Jones

 

[BlueMagician]

Here's something worth talking about. A pretty big gaming site in Japan just held an actual poll. As in, not PushDustin going around 2chan and Twitter and writing names down.

Here's the Top 5:

1. Rex (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
2. Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby)
3. Springman (ARMS)
4. King K. Rool (Donkey Kong)
5. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)

And the Honorable Mentions (in no particular order):

• 2B (Nier)
• Sans (Undertale)
• Ashley (WarioWare)
• Karate Joe (Rhythm Heaven)
• Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
• Geno (Super Mario)
• Decidueye (Pokemon)
• Mimikyu (Pokemon)
• Steve (Minecraft)
• Slime (Dragon Quest)
• Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
• Noctis (Final Fantasy)
• Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
• Banjo and Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie)
• Monster Hunter (Monster Hunter)
• Marx (Kirby)
• Ray (Custom Robo)
• Waluigi (Mario)
• Goku (Dragon Ball)
• Raiden (Metal Gear)

Thoughts?

I want to bring this up because there's a misunderstanding, this isn't a popularity poll but rather a survey asking, "Who do you THINK seems like they'll be a fighter in the next Smash Bros?". I think it's an important distinction.

 

[Zerp]

I'm dying waiting for the update so here's another game while we pray for the new track to tide us over for the week.

Pick your favorite newcomers you want based on their color (main or secondary color)! My list:
Red - Ashley / Celica
Blue - Bandana Dee
Green - Linkle
Yellow - Zeraora / Mythra
Purple - Hilda (LBW)
Orange - Goku Infernape
White - Amaterasu / 2B
Black - Shadow
Brown - Sora Just Monika
Pink - Yarn Kirby / Lip

Red - Dr. Eggman
Blue - Gooey
Green - Struggled with this one, but then I remembered King K. Rool exists, consider it community service.
Yellow - Jirachi
Purple - Waluigi
Orange - Bandana Dee
White - Togetic + Togepi
Black - Dark Matter
Brown - Dixie Kong
Pink - Porky (in his Mother 3 Mech) / If that doesn't count then Clefairy.

 

[RandomAce]

I want to bring this up because there's a misunderstanding, this isn't a popularity poll but rather a survey asking, "Who do you THINK seems like they'll be a fighter in the next Smash Bros?". I think it's an important distinction.

People think 2B is possible?
(I wish)

If that’s the case the I agree. Issac not being there is a shocker because the Japanese community are usually crazy about Issac.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hmm... I see where your coming from.

However, they’re not comparable to one another, even to an extent.

King K. Rool has a completely different physic and personality compared to the Kremilings, they don’t even look alike if you stand them side by side, that’s why people don’t bring up the arguement about King K. Rool looking generic or anything compared to the Kremlings. Bandana Dee on the other hand is much more comparable to the other Waddle Dees, his most notable difference is his Bandana, but aside from that, it’s all up to personality and lore, his physic and even name store a big resemblance compared to the Waddle Dees.

Ok, but really arguing about Bandana Dee and him being generic is just plain stupid, we’ve been through this countless times already.

God, I hate Smash droughts.

Again, the main reason I said that was to piss someone off by saying the same stupid thing they said but about a character they do like because it's a terrible argument. What WOULD have been a better argument is how Bandana Dee didn't even get a single regular trophy in 4 and with how Sakurai prefers to add Kirby content from stuff he's worked on

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Pick your favorite newcomers you want based on their color (main or secondary color)!

Red - Ashley
Blue - Phoenix Wright
Green - King K. Rool
Yellow - Isaac
Purple - Waluigi
Orange - Lip
White - Karate Joe
Black - Sora
Brown - Simon Belmont/Banjo & Kazooie
Pink - Sakura Shinguji/Octoling

 

[Troykv]

That reminds me, someone was talking about potential colors for Octolings and they mentioned white, red, and yellow until I brought up that might look too much like bodily fluids. They should also have a brown

I think Yellow can be a fair shot with some specific variants (the ones that don't look like pee)... But with Red and While you would pretty much need to change the color so much that ended up looking like another color (like red tomato... that ended up looking like orange, or silver).

 

[Dracyoshi]

Being a glorified Waddle Dee is part of the charm, honestly. I love the concept of a cute, lowly mook that could; and Bandana Dee is a perfect candidate due to his prominence in the Kirby series, the potential for a unique spear and umbrella moveset and frequent playability.

And why does being a part of a common enemy race matter if they've got everything that makes a character recognizable? Should it really matter if there are other characters like X? Is it written somewhere that a character must not be similar to another character of their species to be chosen? Might as well write out "generic" Inkling, "generic" Jigglypuff, "generic" Yoshi, "generic" Greninja etc.

"But those are highly promoted and popular, and both Inkling and Yoshi are the main mascots of their series!" Bandana Dee is playable in multiple Kirby games and the Dee highly promoted. True, Bandana Dee is not the main mascot of the series but I don't see why that should matter considering his popularity and the Pokemon have shown that you don't have to be the main mascot for a generic species representative to get in.
"The character is just boring." Clearly not to the large fanbase that wants him in Smash. But I can respect that opinion, tbh. I thought too until I recently got into the Kirby series and realized just how awesome of a character Bandana Dee would be. Once I've realized the potential for his spear and umbrella moveset and grew to love the little mook that could concept is when I started really wanting Bandana Dee in Smash.

I think most detractors would grow to love Bandana Dee once he's in Smash anyway, like any other character who got big through Smash.

That reminds me, someone was talking about potential colors for Octolings and they mentioned white, red, and yellow until I brought up that might look too much like bodily fluids. They should also have a brown

Eh, maybe. It might be an issue. But Nintendo hasn't been afraid to use those colors for Splatfests in the past (like Ketchup vs Mayo), so it might not be an issue.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Being a glorified Waddle Dee is part of the charm, honestly. I love the concept of a cute, lowly mook that could; and Bandana Dee is a perfect candidate due to his prominence in the Kirby series, the potential for a unique spear and umbrella moveset and frequent playability.

And why does being a part of a common enemy race matter if they've got everything that makes a character recognizable? Should it really matter if there are other characters like X? Is it written somewhere that a character must not be similar to another character of their species to be chosen? Might as well write out "generic" Inkling, "generic" Jigglypuff, "generic" Yoshi, "generic" Greninja etc.

"But those are highly promoted and popular, and both Inkling and Yoshi are the main mascots of their series!" Bandana Dee is playable in multiple Kirby games and the Dee highly promoted. True, Bandana Dee is not the main mascot of the series but I don't see why that should matter considering his popularity and the Pokemon have shown that you don't have to be the main mascot for a generic species representative to get in.
"The character is just boring." Clearly not to the large fanbase that wants him in Smash. But I can respect that opinion, tbh. I thought too until I recently got into the Kirby series and realized just how awesome of a character Bandana Dee would be. Once I've realized the potential for his spear and umbrella moveset and grew to love the little mook that could concept is when I started really wanting Bandana Dee in Smash.

I think most detractors would grow to love Bandana Dee once he's in Smash anyway, like any other character who got big through Smash.

Eh, maybe. It might be an issue. But Nintendo hasn't been afraid to use those colors for Splatfests in the past (like Ketchup vs Mayo), so it might not be an issue.

I kinda feel like they knew what they were doing when they did Ketchup vs Mayo

 

[Roberk]

Rex is number one but Elma isn't even an honorable mention? Is X really that much more unpopular over there? Or has everyone just completely written it off because Xenoblade 2 is out and they just assume that the middle entry has already been obseleted? Either way, that's really strange.

Also no Isaac whatsoever. That really speaks volumes I suppose about how niche he really is that we just don't seem to notice. Isaac has been treated as such a no brainer, or at least as a top contender, on these boards that it's actually kind of jarring to see him not even place in the top 20 in Japan. Makes me feel like we may sadly give him more credit than the rest of the world does.

But Geno made it up there, for those who say Geno has nothing more than a vocal cult following. Love for the dude may be more widespread than I believed. He may have a bigger chance than I imagined.

Xenoblade Chronicles X was unpopular upon release in Japan, they were hyping a Xenoblade Chronicles sequel and got a Xenoblade Chronicles spinoff. The dichotomy between X and the mainline games in the West isn't so big because people weren't as passionate about the next entry after XC1. XCX was a real let down for what the Japanese fans were expecting.

XC2 could also be more popular because it's "anime". We've seen the same thing with Fates, where the "anime" tropes are the kind of things made to better appeal to a Japanese Otaku audience.

All of this combined with the general audience's hype around recent Switch titles like BOTW, ARMS, Odyssey, and of course XC2 for content in the new Smash Bros for Switch. Of course, we've discussed extensively how post-2016 (maybe now post-2015) titles will likely be very limited in content in Ultimate, but the general audience doesn't spend all of their time thinking and discussing that stuff.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Red - Dillon
Pink - Sukapon
Purple - Marx
Blue - Geno
Cyan - Blastoise
Green - K Rool
Yellow - Dixie (She's blonde, I'm kinda stretching this)
Orange - I don't have a clue
Brown - Banjo
Black - Simon Belmont. He at least wears black in one incarnation. Just not the one I like.
White - Golisopod/ Mallow

 

[Darkraid]

You've heard of Bandana Waddle Dee being Hat Goomba, but get ready for...


Ashley as Loli Witch
Decidueye as Owl Hanzo
Mimikyu as Emo Pikachu
Incineroar as Zangeif Wannabe

 

[RandomAce]

Again, the main reason I said that was to piss someone off by saying the same stupid thing they said but about a character they do like because it's a terrible argument. What WOULD have been a better argument is how Bandana Dee didn't even get a single regular trophy in 4 and with how Sakurai prefers to add Kirby content from stuff he's worked on

Gotcha.

Wait, Bandana Dee didn’t get a trophy in 4. Well **** that was surprising.

@tephonycorn weren’t there supposed to be leaks saying that there was supposed to be a reveal on the 16th? Well it looks like more and more leaks are getting killed off.

I just want to get this dry period over with.

Oh Guybrush20X6 I looked back at the Brawl threads and more specifically the Issac support thread, and jeez people were so negative near the release of Brawl with the roster leaks coming out. Smash certainly has changed.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well **** that was surprising.

Don't censor out 1 letter, the site has an auto censor filter and you'd likely get in trouble for censor dodging

 

[ThatShadowLink]

Pick your favorite newcomers you want based on their color (main or secondary color)!

Sounds like fun! My picks would be:
Red - Simon Belmont
Blue - Flynn (Shin Megami Tensei)
Green - Alm
Yellow - Isaac
Purple - Shantae
Orange - Impa? Skyward Sword Impa is very orange.
White - Kyle Hyde Derek Stiles Someone whose franchise isn't dead
Black - Ryu Hayabusa
Brown - Dillon
Pink - Lip

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Not gonna get too involved in the bandana dee discussion because it's late and I need to sleep. But I will say that I don't believe it's fair to consider Bandana dee a generic when he gets special attention across a whole bunch of recent Kirby games. Playable character in Return to dream land, Special mode in Rainbow Curse, support role in triple deluxe and robobot, Plot role in Kirby battle royale (For what this is worth lol) and the fact that he is considered a dream ally in star allies, and is a separate entity from all the other Generic partners in the game. Even other waddle dee partners like the parasol dee. His spear ability is unique to him now, as Spear hasn't made a reappearance since Return to Dreamland, and has seemingly been replaced by the staff ability. (He was also a support role in Team Kirby Clash Deluxe as well for what that's worth)

As for outside of video games itself...well I think the absurd popularity of Waddle Dee's among Kirby fans helps a bit. But I don't think it's the make or break for his chances or anything. Just a nice bonus

The main problem with Bandana dee I think is that...he doesn't really have a name. He's no Adeline the Waddle Dee, or Chef Kawasaki the Waddle Dee, he's just Bandana Waddle Dee. Which gives off the impression that he isn't that important or popular or well known when the opposite is true.

EDIT: To expand upon this, having a defined name (Even if it's changeable) gives off the impression of having character and can promote importance. Especially in a game where only a few characters have defined names. There's waddle Dee's and driblees, and Bonkers in kirby, but those are all like species names. Kirby is unique, Meta Knight is Unique, King DeDeDe is unique. Bandana Waddle Dee is less unique. It gives the impression of slightly more notable than generic enemy, but nothing much all together. Which means that people will tend to ignore Bandana Dee's unique characteristics and pretty good attendance in recent kirby games.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

For the record, I just edit it so the swear word is proper, which makes it fully censored. Generally, I don't consider it censor dodging specifically if you're simply making sure part of the word is actually censored in itself. It's not the same thing as deliberately trying to make the word non-censored in some way(context applies of course).

 

[Deleted member]

I'm dying waiting for the update so here's another game while we pray for the new track to tide us over for the week.

Pick your favorite newcomers you want based on their color (main or secondary color)! My list:
Red - Ashley / Celica
Blue - Bandana Dee
Green - Linkle
Yellow - Zeraora / Mythra
Purple - Hilda (LBW)
Orange - Goku Infernape
White - Amaterasu / 2B
Black - Shadow
Brown - Sora Just Monika
Pink - Yarn Kirby / Lip

Red: Elma / Incineroar
Orange: Goku / Crash / Bandanna Dee
Yellow: Issac / Dillon
Green: King K. Rool / Decidueye
Blue: Chrom
Pink: I really have no idea.... Lip?
Purple: Uhh..... CHANDELURE? Look I have like no ideas and it is THREE AM so I can not think.
White: Chorus Kids
Black: Shadow???
Brown: Sora / Geno

You've heard of Bandana Waddle Dee being Hat Goomba, but get ready for...

Waluigi as Long Plumber
Captain Toad as Horizontal Shroom
Skull Kid as Trippy Shy Guy
Ashley as Small Gruntilda
K. Rool as Extinguished Bowser
Dixie Kong as Wig Diddy
Decidueye as Archer Noctowl
Mimikyu as Cosplay Pikachu ignore Pika Libre
Lycanroc as Rugged Duck Hunt
Incineroar as Heel Meowth
Chrom as Buff Dad Marth
Celica as Robin Marth
Isabelle as Dog Bellwether
Elma as Military Girl Dante
Chorus Kids as Musical Ice Climbers
Dillon as Western Sonic
Springman as Stretchy Little Mac
Simon Belmont as BDSM He-Man
Rabbids as Fuzzy Minions
Rayman as Hoodie Sukapon
Crash Bandicoot as Australian Sonic
Geno as Celestial Pinocchio

Goku as Infernape Clone.
I am just kidding do not @ me.
Either way I love this!

You mean RPG Captain Falcon? Get it because dead series. **** now I'm sad.

I was just... just having fun, playing along...

ITS TOO REAL NOW

IM GOING HOME

;_;

Captain Falcon will get his turn someday...

I can't believe we've gone to Waddle Dee racism.
This is amazing.

Waddle Dees do not deserve to be treated like this way.

 

[papagenos]

I must have missed that leak...

Did anyone ever verify the Amiibo leak, or was that really just something theDaisyguywemustnotname said with nobody else backing it up?

I made a whole video on it, the leak tends to get ignored because of the source but I'm not counting it out as Bandana/Waddle Dee is very likely anyway and the only arguments ive heard against it is that it was buggy/a glitch that caused Daisy to get the "further amiibo" data and not waluigi... but like at this point with Daisy actually getting a confirmed second amiibo where as waluigi probably is NOT anytime soon... I cant ignore it no matter how bias the source is and there was no reason to add Waddle Dee if the guy is obsessed with Daisy.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

The main problem with Bandana dee I think is that...he doesn't really have a name. He's no Adeline the Waddle Dee, or Chef Kawasaki the Waddle Dee, he's just Bandana Waddle Dee. Which gives off the impression that he isn't that important or popular or well known when the opposite is true.

THIS. It’s not a deal breaker, but a real name would’ve helped him. You’re all making jokes about Lilo-witch or lanky plumber or emo Pikachu, but imagine if those were canon names for those characters. It’d be harder to take them seriously. I think BWD suffers from that a bit.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Just a little thing that I made within PowerPoint (believe it or not). It's my take on a "Nintendo Tribute". Figured, since I had a lot of Nintendo characters together it would be fitting to just leave it here in a Smash thread. Not really meant to signify anything, but I thought it was cool.

It's a bit big, so I'll leave it as a spoiler. Hope you like it. Heading to bed now.

Spoiler: Nintendo Tribute

 

[lordvaati]

I feel some are too rough on Bandana Dee. Using the generic enemy/NPC John is a little petty since as the years go on they have worked to make him his own unique cast member. Furthermore by that same vein Captain Toad is also a character who grew into his own over the years based off an NPC race who sees a healthy amount of requests. I also think if Kamek somehow got in as a Yoshi rep there would not be much objection despite him being based on the Magikopas either. And lastly B.Dee has landed in the top 5 of both that recent poll AND Source Gaming's popularity poll from 3 years ago, which means there is mass demand for him despite the naysay.
Just let the people have their cake already.

 

[Darkraid]

Red - Zero
Blue - Phoenix Wright
Green - K K Rool
Yellow - Captain Toad
Purple - Waluigi
Orange - Crash bandicoot
White - Chrom
Black - Shadow
Brown - Impa
Pink - Dixie

 

[Idon]

What if we just called him "Bandana" the Waddle Dee.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

LOL, he's not a Sonic character. He doesn't NEED to be a "X the Xhog"

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

THIS. It’s not a deal breaker, but a real name would’ve helped him. You’re all making jokes about Lilo-witch or lanky plumber or emo Pikachu, but imagine if those were canon names for those characters. It’d be harder to take them seriously. I think BWD suffers from that a bit.

I edited my post above to explain this a little more but this is essentially it. Dee's title lends him to be underestimated and not noticed because it's not a defined name. It's hat goomba, Title (Or "Notable discerning attribute" )+ Species, not a real name. Having a name is important to be noticed, especially in games where the actual defined number of named characters is so few.

 

[osby]

THIS. It’s not a deal breaker, but a real name would’ve helped him. You’re all making jokes about Lilo-witch or lanky plumber or emo Pikachu, but imagine if those were canon names for those characters. It’d be harder to take them seriously. I think BWD suffers from that a bit.

Dr. Mario.
Dark Pit.
Young Link AND Toon Link.

Characters can have history and personality without unique names.